MacDonald, DiCanio and the season so far

[DMR]

I can assure you I am not trolling. I just happen the think Lumps is a cunt

[Reg Smeeton]

 Basically what you're saying, is the same as what a few of us on here have been saying....judge KMac on next season, not this.

The frustration has been caused I think by the fact that Div 3 is relatively weak this season. Once that realisation crept in around the turn of the year, it looked as if we were in a decent position to challenge for auto....there was then the sense, it could only happen at Swindon.

Less importantly...did you go to Grimethorpe or some such place on Wednesday?

[BruceChatwin]

People keep saying that the results / stats don’t lie, but I’ve worked analysing stats for a lot of my career and I can tell you that the sort of shallow referencing of them that some fans do is incredibly misleading.

Followed by:

Place the last four games, including Tuesday’s win to one side...

I give you irony.

[kerry red]

If we're playing the blame game, my vote goes to Black.

After the first season with PdC he knew exactly what would be needed to keep the club challenging for a 2nd promotion.

The fact that he says he was close to selling the club before the start of the season says he didn't want to bankroll the club further. So why sign up to PdC's vision of promotion and how to get there?

If he wasn't willing to make a season-long commitment then he should have had the balls to tell Paolo from the off - not 'car-crash' the season with 3 months to go.

I still don't know/understand why the sale had to be done to such a short timescale.

If there were, indeed, other parties interested in purchasing the club but could not adhere to Black's timescale, surely it makes sense for him to keep things going for another 3 months with the prospect of having a Championship club to sell.

I just don't buy he couldn't bankroll the club for 3 more months. He didn't want to, obviously - and the real reasons for that we will never know for sure.

[dalumpimunki]

A well thought out post and some salient points made.

However, I think it's ironic that you left the forum when Di Canio was appointed, have now returned as he's left, but all you've done is talk about Di Canio.

Stop being so angry and defensive. People have their opinions, you don't need to counter them all the time.

But the post isn't really about PDC, but about how Mac had done since he got here. It refers to Paolo only because that's the point of comparison that is inevitably being made.

[dalumpimunki]

Followed by:

I give you irony.

I give you selective reading of the post to make a pretty weak point.

I make it clear that I set those four games to one side at first only because people were slagging off Macdonald and saying the results had nosedived BEFORE we'd played any of them, when it's clear from the stats that the teams performance was pretty much exactly the same as it had been since the end of January.

There's then a whole paragraph that does talk about those results, and the other 4 tricky away games we've played since PDC left, and makes the point that we did almost as well against those teams away without PDC as we did at home against them under him.

[Ginginho]

But the post isn't really about PDC, but about how Mac had done since he got here. It refers to Paolo only because that's the point of comparison that is inevitably being made.

For what it's worth, my opinion of MacDonald so far is pretty good. I was talking about this the other day and putting it into context, and pretty much made several of the points you've highlighted.
In his first 9 games in charge, we faced the following away: Coventry, Brentford, Yeovil, Doncaster, Franchise wankers and Sheffield United. Combine that with the fact we lost Ritchie and have a squad decimated by injury, to still be in the top 6 is a fucking good achievement in my humble opinion.

[ron dodgers]

I can assure you I am not trolling. I just happen the think Lumps is a cunt

he knows that - but now you've read it what do you think?

[RobertT]

I thought PDC did a pretty amazing job, he probably spent too much money on agents fees and relied on the ability to cycle players through which was fine if it was supported (I've said as much before), the wheels fell off a bit in Jan by not being able to replenish the squad while selling Ritchie (and financially it seems we had to), I do not think Kmac is doing a bad job at all (but I wouldn't have changed formation if I could have avoided it until the summer) and we still could very easily go up.  That end result would be bloody amazing.

[bassett boy]

For what it's worth, my opinion of MacDonald so far is pretty good. I was talking about this the other day and putting it into context, and pretty much made several of the points you've highlighted.
In his first 9 games in charge, we faced the following away: Coventry, Brentford, Yeovil, Doncaster, Franchise wankers and Sheffield United. Combine that with the fact we lost Ritchie and have a squad decimated by injury, to still be in the top 6 is a fucking good achievement in my humble opinion.

I agree with your comments i think over all we have done ok this season , slightly disappointed over the last couple of months however it was always going to be tricky with the away games against the top teams in the league

[dalumpimunki]

Less importantly...did you go to Grimethorpe or some such place on Wednesday?

Nah, was at work in Stoke, and then had a meeting in the evening in Crewe. Got back about half ten to see Look North running pictures of the Grimethorpe street party though.

It's nice that someone took some pleasure in the day don't you think?

[Reg Smeeton]

Nah, was at work in Stoke, and then had a meeting in the evening in Crewe. Got back about half ten to see Look North running pictures of the Grimethorpe street party though.

It's nice that someone took some pleasure in the day don't you think?

I'd have thought there'd have been something in Stoke....I was up there a couple of weeks ago, and although everybody associates it with pottery, Staffs had a sizeable mining industry. I did a walk, and chanced upon the site of Hem Heath Coliery, which was near the Brittania Stadium....didn't close til 96. Now a housing estate...a mate worked down the pit at Silverdale, which didn't go until 98.

[BruceChatwin]

I give you selective reading of the post to make a pretty weak point.

I make it clear that I set those four games to one side at first only because people were slagging off Macdonald and saying the results had nosedived BEFORE we'd played any of them, when it's clear from the stats that the teams performance was pretty much exactly the same as it had been since the end of January.

There's then a whole paragraph that does talk about those results, and the other 4 tricky away games we've played since PDC left, and makes the point that we did almost as well against those teams away without PDC as we did at home against them under him.

My biggest issue is I don't really understand why you're dredging all this up. Apart from a few outliers like DMR who want to go on fellating the memories of the old regime, most of us moved on as soon as Di Canio quit and left us in the shit, and all this post is doing is keeping the old arguments going by attempting to fight fire with fire (or arbitrary statistical analysis with arbitrary statistical analysis).

If I was to make a direct statistical comparison between Macdonald and Di Canio WITHOUT ignoring the last 4 games, then it would read:

Macdonald: 3 wins, 4 defeats, 3 draws, 12 points from 30; 12 goals scored, 12 against, +0 to the goal difference.

Di Canio: 6 wins, 0 defeats, 4 draws, 22 points from 30; 22 goals scored, 3 against, +19 to the goal difference.

And in the improbable parallel statistical universe where Di Canio could actually repeat those numbers with the squad we now have available, that would be the difference between hanging on for sixth place and being clear at the top of the table.

But it's all pretty irrelevant considering the complex off field circumstances of the last 2 months he didn't have to deal with which remain the only points that need making for the case in favour of Kmac.

Personally I'm quite excited to see what sort of team he'll build next year given his background in youth development. I wouldn't be averse to a Crewe-style model of financial stability based on the development of youth players integrated into a first team spine of experienced players. In this regard, considering the financial model many of us expect Kmac to be working to next year, he is probably one of the best qualified managers we could have put in charge in the long term, even if some people are questioning his credentials for the short term end of season push.

[TheDukeOfBanbury]

If we're playing the blame game, my vote goes to Black.

After the first season with PdC he knew exactly what would be needed to keep the club challenging for a 2nd promotion.

The fact that he says he was close to selling the club before the start of the season says he didn't want to bankroll the club further. So why sign up to PdC's vision of promotion and how to get there?

If he wasn't willing to make a season-long commitment then he should have had the balls to tell Paolo from the off - not 'car-crash' the season with 3 months to go.

I still don't know/understand why the sale had to be done to such a short timescale.

If there were, indeed, other parties interested in purchasing the club but could not adhere to Black's timescale, surely it makes sense for him to keep things going for another 3 months with the prospect of having a Championship club to sell.

I just don't buy he couldn't bankroll the club for 3 more months. He didn't want to, obviously - and the real reasons for that we will never know for sure.

With you all the way.
As you kind of said, grow some balls and say NO to more players required, paying off contracts etc.
He could be selling a Championship Club now and recovering some of the losses.

Car crash ........More like a multiple pile up.

[Anteater]

I'd have thought there'd have been something in Stoke....I was up there a couple of weeks ago, and although everybody associates it with pottery, Staffs had a sizeable mining industry. I did a walk, and chanced upon the site of Hem Heath Coliery, which was near the Brittania Stadium....didn't close til 96. Now a housing estate...a mate worked down the pit at Silverdale, which didn't go until 98.

My uncle worked at the Silverdale mine from 60's to early/mid 70's. Took me around the site one afternoon when I was a tiny sprog but unfortunately not down the pit. Very tight community spirit (lived in Newcastle under Lyme). Great bloke (as was the community) sadly died of 'black lung disease' (pneumoconis) many years ago.