TRUST AGM - TONIGHT 6.30pm. - GW PUB

[Batch]

Yeah, saw that and its not 100% clear if he meant budget breach, 'forecast' to me suggested its what Wray/PDC/Spencer wanted to spend to kick on.

Wray was very much a spend your way to the Championship before its too late (PL2). I guess we'll see if that approach was right in the next 3-5 years. Lets hope he wasn't.

[jonny72]

Wray was very much a spend your way to the Championship before its too late (PL2). I guess we'll see if that approach was right in the next 3-5 years. Lets hope he wasn't.

Even if it was to happen (which it won't) there is no logic to the argument. There'd still be promotion and relegation and if there wasn't they'd only want the bigger clubs regardless of the divisions they were in at the time.

Or are you saying that if Leeds, Man City, Sheff Weds, Southampton, Norwich were all in L1 when it happened that they'd leave them behind and stick with us, Peterborough, Barnsley, Burnley and Millwall instead?

How many teams has the boom and bust approach worked for? I can't think of any but there are plenty of teams that have built up gradually over the years and are now doing alright at the top - Stoke, West Brom, Reading amongst others.

[Batch]

I don't think the promotion and relegation system would be the same as it in now, but that's just my opinion. But in any case I could see the financial gap getting even bigger making it unaffordable to for us to bridge. I'd hate to be stuck in some regionalised shitty league.

Anyway, its all 'what if' right now.

[Power to people]

Wray went to the trust meeting as a member of the trust as did MP Justin Tomlinson, yes he said a few things which he asked not to be repeated which I think is fair comment, it was his decision and he was obviously happy to take the risk that he may be repeated.

Not here to  defend him as I dont think he needs it but was just concerned at some of the comments made and attributed to the trust.

For the trust to be even mentioned as a secret society I think is a bit unfair on the current board, the meeting was open to anyone to attend hardly a secret meeting and anyone can join the trust and join the board so hardly on the top secret list.

I think the guys at the trust deserve a little respect, I think that is deserved after the input the trust had getting rid of the last incumbents and uncovering what was going on, surely they have built that, up who knows what they may be needed to do if rumours of the latest lot are to be beleived, people may end of thankful of them asking the awkward questions.

[Fred Elliot]

yes he said a few things which he asked not to be repeated

 the meeting was open to anyone to attend hardly a secret

Oh dear

[Simon Pieman]

Wray went to the trust meeting as a member of the trust as did MP Justin Tomlinson, yes he said a few things which he asked not to be repeated which I think is fair comment, it was his decision and he was obviously happy to take the risk that he may be repeated.

Not here to  defend him as I dont think he needs it but was just concerned at some of the comments made and attributed to the trust.

For the trust to be even mentioned as a secret society I think is a bit unfair on the current board, the meeting was open to anyone to attend hardly a secret meeting and anyone can join the trust and join the board so hardly on the top secret list.

I think the guys at the trust deserve a little respect, I think that is deserved after the input the trust had getting rid of the last incumbents and uncovering what was going on, surely they have built that, up who knows what they may be needed to do if rumours of the latest lot are to be beleived, people may end of thankful of them asking the awkward questions.

There has always been an element of distrust (no pun intended) amongst the fan base which I think was and is completely unfounded. However, I think the points people are trying to make here are genuinely what people want from the trust rather than nitpicking.

I think it would be a bit rich to not expect any criticism on board and address it, particularly when the trust have recently levied questions and criticism towards the club.

There's obviously a need for a supporters trust and I think fans and the trust itself got too complacent over the last 4 years. The board and members alike do a lot of work in their own time to support the operation. That's where the kudos should come from, not from what happened 5 years ago. You could argue that fans did an awful lot off their own back to help remove those incumbents (not to take anything away from the trust).

[Phil_S]

I agree. But he appeared to hold Wray responsible for the embargo and lack of communication.

Though there was this bit as well;

My problem with Wray is that he is the one that came up with the plan to spend to buy promotion, with an expensive high profile manager who was given money for players. It was his business model and him that convinced Black to bankroll it.

It was a complete change of plan as Fitton had always wanted to balance the books.

Wray is reckless and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the club again. We might have some short term success but it will come back to haunt us and very likely result in administration. I kind of wish I'd been able to go to the AGM so I could explain my views to him, face to face.

Actually there were two alternatives.. set a budget & have a team to compete in league 1/2 with no ambition to go any higher, or invest to get to the championship, where the £3,000,000 extra needed would be covered by the £4,000,000 extra TV revenue.. makes sense to me

[fatbasher]

Actually there were two alternatives.. set a budget & have a team to compete in league 1/2 with no ambition to go any higher, or invest to get to the championship, where the £3,000,000 extra needed would be covered by the £4,000,000 extra TV revenue.. makes sense to me

On paper it does make sense. The reality though are the consequences of failiure to gain said promotion.

[Flashheart]

Actually there were two alternatives.. set a budget & have a team to compete in league 1/2 with no ambition to go any higher, or invest to get to the championship, where the £3,000,000 extra needed would be covered by the £4,000,000 extra TV revenue.. makes sense to me

Under Fitton we made it it to the playoffs without breaking the bank.

[mrverve]

I think Wray's business plan was to spend big to get to the Championship, get more fans in and in conjunction with the redeveloped stadium generate more revenue. I think maybe he saw the opportunity for PL2 as being self-sustainable in the long run with the extra revenue generated in that type of league.

You either have to play the game or sleep walk into a oblivion. 

[jonny72]

I'm amazed so many people still think that is a viable business model.

That is exactly the plan that Coventry, Leeds and Portsmouth have implemented in recent years.

How did it work out for them?

[thepeoplesgame]

Far be it from me to put words into Jeremy Wray's mouth, but I don't think he was chasing some sort of impossible dream during his tenure, he was merely looking to fast-track us from the basement division to the Championship before that gap became unbridgeable in order to then attempt to stabilise the club at that level.

There was no plan to then continue ploughing money in to reach the Premier League, just to build a sustainable club over time in the second tier. The plan for achieving this was to fund it with increased TV revenue, and new revenue streams from a new stadium which the old board had worked tirelessly with the council to bring about. In time, perhaps, we could have built up the supporter base and copied Reading.

With Black's funding for the necessary two promotion campaigns this was achievable, and until he pulled the plug we were well on the way.

[Summerof69]

I think JW had beliefs that there is going to be a PL2, with no promotion/relegation, and he wanted us in the top two divisions if that came to fruition.

[jonny72]

I think JW had beliefs that there is going to be a PL2, with no promotion/relegation, and he wanted us in the top two divisions if that came to fruition.

Not going to happen. Think about it, what would happen if there was no promotion / relegation from the PL?

The season would be over for half the clubs by Xmas. Without needing to avoid relegation there would be no need for clubs in the bottom half to invest in their squad. They'd reduce their wage bill to a minimum and just bank all the TV cash. Within a few seasons the PL would become a joke league, no one would want to watch it and the TV revenue would collapse.

The PL or even a PL2 if it ever exists needs promotion / relegation just as much as The Championship does.

[Iffy's Onion Bhaji]

Sorry but Wray is bit stupid if he seriously thought that was ever going to happen. No chance. The FL wouldn't allow it.