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Author Topic: We've not had a religious debate on here for a while...  (Read 19702 times)
Amir

« Reply #15 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 09:46:38 »

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A Gent Orange

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« Reply #16 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 09:50:53 »



Proof!
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #17 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 10:15:50 »

These people want to educate children...

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Flashheart

« Reply #18 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 10:16:34 »

Indoctrination should be outlawed.

Why the fuck should the tax payer pay for children to be taught things we know not to be true?
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Flashheart

« Reply #19 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 10:57:40 »

These people want to educate children...



Ha ha

That's just plain embarassing
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Shaw Rosso

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« Reply #20 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 11:16:28 »

Join the Exclusive Bretheren and throw your TV in the bin. There is about 150 of the loons in Swindon
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reeves4england

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« Reply #21 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 11:17:47 »

Even as a Christian I don't advocate teaching creationism as indisputable fact, or as 'science' - that's not what schools are there for. However, I would support it being taught in R.E. and being engaged with critically. Hear me out here...

In R.E. kids currently get fed the 5 pillars of Islam, the 5 k's of Sikhism, and a load of wishy-washy drivel about the sanctity of life rooted in nothing other than their own teachers' views. This leads to a large amount of ignorance and apathy towards religion, and a disdain for anybody with a religious belief.

Perhaps if the R.E. curriculum was changed so that people were taught what each religion believes about God and the world, we'd have a lot more understanding and a lot less mindless, reactionist debate like in this thread. Even if you don't agree with religious beliefs, or religion in general, I don't see how you can argue against the value of critical engagement with what other people in society think.

Back to the point...

Most people in this thread appear to have seen the word 'creationism', panicked, and hit the red button, despite at least one person admitting they don't actually know what it means. Not all Christians stand in opposition to evolution, and there are very few in this country who still follow the 'young earth' way of thinking. Also, notice that none of the schools in that article are advocating what people in this thread have suggested. I'm sure many of you will know that in the 1980s Said called this 'Orientalism' - where we construct a negative image of a group of people different to ourselves in order to assert our superiority over them.

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Grindon Hall says it teaches evolution as "an established scientific principle, as far as it goes". However, the school's policy document adds: "We believe no scientific theory provides – or ever will provide – a satisfactory explanation of origins, ie why the world appeared, and how nothing became something in the first place."

Science explains what happens in our world, and how. Religious belief is almost entirely focused on the 'why'. Some crazy people in America, and a small minority in this country will reject all science in favour of their interpretation of Genesis 1 (which, incidentally, is a poem written to counteract mystic beliefs of the time, not a scientific document). Posting videos of such people in support of an argument shows a real disdain for religious people who take these issues seriously. One guy in my church is a professors of medical ethics, another a member of the Royal Society. Many more are doctors, scientific researchers, and graduates in the sciences from top universities. They're much smarter than I am, and a lot more knowledgable - are we going to write them off purely because they believe God created the world?

All I'm asking for is a bit of critical thought, and not a wild assumption that all people with religious beliefs are fundamentally stupid, ignorant, backward, and a threat to the progress of society. Oh, and a bit of mutual understanding and engagement.

I await your abuse.
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LucienSanchez

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« Reply #22 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 11:21:58 »

Is it Deism, that advocates that evolution is in fact a creation of sorts - that a 'divine clockmaker' created the universe and all the scintific principles that apply henceforth? That's slightly more believable than the Adam and Eve stuff.
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AldbourneRed

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« Reply #23 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 11:44:32 »

Although I disagree with Creationism personally, and think it's completely wrong to be taught as a Science, I'm not sure the existence of these new schools is necessarily a bad thing.

The children who are going to be attending these schools will be, in all likelihood, being raised by Creationist parents already. These parents have their beliefs and, if they feel strongly enough about them to send their children to a Creationist school, will also probably feel strongly enough to impart the beliefs onto the children at home anyway. I don't think that the existence of the schools will change what a child is taught, but just where they are taught it and who they are taught by.

A lot of children of Creationist parents are currently homeschooled, in order for the parents to tailor the education to their own beliefs. If these new schools mean that children that would have been homeschooled are now able to learn in a bricks and mortar school, albeit a Creationist one, then maybe that's a good thing? I'm aware there are benefits to homeschooling for some people, but the increased social interactivity a child experiences from schooling with other children cannot be undervalued.

Who knows, maybe mixing with others might even allow them to broaden their world view and consider alternatives to Creationism...
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A Gent Orange

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« Reply #24 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 11:53:10 »

Genuine question then. If creationism isn't a popular or widely held belief among UK Christians of all varieties, why does it need to be taught in RE? Other, older or obscure elements of the faith or scism don't need to be covered so why this one?
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #25 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 12:05:10 »

Detracting from the topic slightly, I don't understand why religion is still taught in schools. I can see that it gives children/young adults an insight into faiths/beliefs other than their own, which you would think would lead to better appreciation of faiths (although society suggests it doesn't), but what value does it add to a person's academic career? Apart from those that are humanities based, what qualifications have religious studies as a default requirement?

 
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Ardiles

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« Reply #26 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 12:10:36 »

It's because we have an Established Church in this country, so politics, religion and education are inseparable.  The church has been educating for centuries as well...long before the state took an interest in educating its people.

(Comments not intended to support the status quo.)
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reeves4england

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« Reply #27 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 12:12:14 »

Genuine question then. If creationism isn't a popular or widely held belief among UK Christians of all varieties, why does it need to be taught in RE? Other, older or obscure elements of the faith or scism don't need to be covered so why this one?

A good point.

First of all, I wouldn't say creationism isn't a popular belief - just that the media and our society has caricatured what this means into a stubborn 'young-earth-anti-evolution' type viewpoint. All Christians would agree that God created the world in one way or another.

Regarding whether or not it should be taught, I do feel that since it is such a commonly discussed topic (this thread being proof of that) it is something that should be addressed. What I'd like to see is an R.E. curriculum which takes each major world religion, teaches from that religion's scriptures/teachers who they believe God is, what they believe about life, death and the world we live in, and how those beliefs then translate into present-day issues/debates like the origins of the world, marriage, abortion and whatever else.

The problem is, all kids currently get taught is 'Christians hate abortion', 'Jews have to be circumcised', 'Muslims have to do this, this and this' and so on without any reference to the character and works of God that are foundational to these beliefs in their respective religions.
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #28 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 12:14:35 »

The problem is, all kids currently get taught is 'Christians hate abortion', 'Jews have to be circumcised', 'Muslims have to do this, this and this' and so on without any reference to the character and works of God that are foundational to these beliefs in their respective religions.

It takes people years to form and properly understand their own religious beliefs. How do you teach kids about all major religions in one or two hours per fortnight?
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #29 on: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 12:17:03 »

It's because we have an Established Church in this country, so politics, religion and education are inseparable.  The church has been educating for centuries as well...long before the state took an interest in educating its people.

(Comments not intended to support the status quo.)

You mean to say no right minded politician would drop religion from the national curriculum for fear of upsetting the Church and losing the support of the electorate?
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