Dan Wheldon Crash

[Barry Scott]

Was almost reluctant to watch the crash but then decided to have a peek. That crash is quite mental. How long before it becomes as sanitised as F1?

[Langers]

Was watching it live last night, horrific crash and so sad. He was a brilliant racer. RIP.

[Batch]

Was almost reluctant to watch the crash but then decided to have a peek. That crash is quite mental. How long before it becomes as sanitised as F1?

Horrible horrible crash last night.

Not sure Indy can ever be quite as safe as F1 due to the nature of (most) of the tracks being ovals. No room for gravel traps and the run off areas.

Not really sure I'm qualified to know how safe the Indy cars are compared to F1 cars. For sure F1 cars are so much safer in the aftermath of the Ratzenburger/Senna deaths.

They showed the Martin Donnely crash in the movie "Senna". 50% of is car disintegrated and he ended up ejected onto the race track still in part of his seat. You'd never see that now (thankfully).

Not sure if there is scope for a similar improvement to Indy car safety.

RIP Dan Wheldon.

[Gelbfüßler]

Horrible horrible crash last night.

Not sure Indy can ever be quite as safe as F1 due to the nature of (most) of the tracks being ovals. No room for gravel traps and the run off areas.

Not really sure I'm qualified to know how safe the Indy cars are compared to F1 cars. For sure F1 cars are so much safer in the aftermath of the Ratzenburger/Senna deaths.

They showed the Martin Donnely crash in the movie "Senna". 50% of is car disintegrated and he ended up ejected onto the race track still in part of his seat. You'd never see that now (thankfully).

Not sure if there is scope for a similar improvement to Indy car safety.

RIP Dan Wheldon.

That Donnelly one is mental - he's just on his side, still in his seat (detached from rest of car) in the middle of the track. He was a little bit lucky.

Agree that Indy Car is just impossible to make as safe as F1 (3 deaths in last 10 years that I can remember - Moore, Dana, Wheldon). From the car-safety point of view I'd imagine there was very little to choose between IndyCar and F1, bu there's always going to be the chance of decelerating from 200+mph to 0mph very quickly. I believe they have put those safe barrier things on all the walls on the ovals in the US now but I don't see how they will do much about head-on impacts.

Re cars breaking up - I'd have thought an F1 car may well do the same under the same forces? Maybe not - not massively up to speed with current Indy Car safety regs, but I know there has been some big steps forward made in NASCAR in recent years.

Was quite a shock hearing the news on the radio this morning as I remember watching him in Formula Ford/Formula Renault in the late nineties as one of the support races for the BTCC. His name was one I've always remembered, along with Button, Pizzonia, Raikonen, Courtney and Kiesa.

Hadn't followed his career in anyway other than knowing he was racing in America.

[tans]

Yeah I remember him in formula ford aswell, back in the days of hamish irvine

[Gelbfüßler]

Hamish Irvine!! haha There's a quality clip in the 1995 BTCC video of John Cleland crusing past Hamish at Donnington at what looks like twice the speed..... then you realise all the cars had all the aeroparts etc, apart from poor old Hamish, who was trundling along in his blue Peugeot 405 that he must've just bought from the dealers.

John Cleland had - http://www.stillphotography.co.uk/gallery/d/15827-3/95_cleland_don.jpg

Hamish Irvine had - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Peugeot_405_front.jpg

[Bewster]

They showed the Martin Donnely crash in the movie "Senna". 50% of is car disintegrated and he ended up ejected onto the race track still in part of his seat. You'd never see that now (thankfully).

Donelly's leg was smashed to pieces - he was lucky to live.

Anybody scene "F1 the killing years" on the Beeb? Shocking how many people had to die before they took it seriously

[jonny72]

Agree that Indy Car is just impossible to make as safe as F1 (3 deaths in last 10 years that I can remember - Moore, Dana, Wheldon). From the car-safety point of view I'd imagine there was very little to choose between IndyCar and F1, bu there's always going to be the chance of decelerating from 200+mph to 0mph very quickly. I believe they have put those safe barrier things on all the walls on the ovals in the US now but I don't see how they will do much about head-on impacts.

Re cars breaking up - I'd have thought an F1 car may well do the same under the same forces? Maybe not - not massively up to speed with current Indy Car safety regs, but I know there has been some big steps forward made in NASCAR in recent years.

I'm no expert but having a bunch of cars racing closely at 200+mph round a narrow oval track is always going to have the potential of turning to shit. One car goes and the rest are taken out, no chance for anyone to avoid it. You just don't get the same kind of racing in F1 due to the different circuits, plus they have the space for safety barriers and run off areas.

Think that F1 cars are designed to break up nowadays, with all the strength and protection in the cockpit to protect the driver. Seem to remember a crash or two last season that showed in in action and working perfectly - car breaks up and the driver walks away with a headache.

[Summerof69]

The Indy cars they currenty use are around 10 years old, with a new safer version to be used from next season. Personally, the only way they are going to be safer is to get off the oval circuits, racing 200mph plus and then going into a wall is not safe. Due to the fact that the crowd are next to the circuit, there has been instances of the racegoers dying after getting hit by debris. Even speedway bought in air fences a few years ago, which has cut a lot of bad injuries happening to the riders.

[Benzel]

Think that F1 cars are designed to break up nowadays, with all the strength and protection in the cockpit to protect the driver. Seem to remember a crash or two last season that showed in in action and working perfectly - car breaks up and the driver walks away with a headache.

Kubica at Montreal springs to mind.

[Langers]

The Indy cars they currenty use are around 10 years old, with a new safer version to be used from next season. Personally, the only way they are going to be safer is to get off the oval circuits, racing 200mph plus and then going into a wall is not safe. Due to the fact that the crowd are next to the circuit, there has been instances of the racegoers dying after getting hit by debris. Even speedway bought in air fences a few years ago, which has cut a lot of bad injuries happening to the riders.

It's not all the ovals that are the problem, it's just the one's like Vegas which are very steep and also very short, espescially with 34 cars on them which are running 4 wide, it was unfortunatley rather inevitable that there would be accidents. It's just so tragic that it was so severe.

[Summerof69]

It's not all the ovals that are the problem, it's just the one's like Vegas which are very steep and also very short, espescially with 34 cars on them which are running 4 wide, it was unfortunatley rather inevitable that there would be accidents. It's just so tragic that it was so severe.

Yes, it was tighter and steepler, but deaths will happen when your running 200mph+ and one mistake later you're hitting a brick wall with no get out. You will never see a F1 race on an oval.

[Langers]

Agree. It's something that really needs looking at. Even with the new cars that are coming in next year, with improved safety, I don't they would have fared too much better. It's stupid to have open wheel races on ovals.

[Spencer_White]

Open wheel racing on high banked ovals is on borrowed time. Sooner or later a car will fly over a catch fence, and that will be it finnished.

When you think about the forces and the speeds involved it is pretty clear that it will happen one day.

[jonny72]

Kubica at Montreal springs to mind.

That's the one I was thinking of - was watching it when it happened and thought he was toast, yet all he suffered from was concussion and a sprained ankle.

Never really got the racing on ovals thing. Not proper racing and nowhere near the excitement of a decent F1 race.