Gordon Brown

[Barry Scott]

I'm not about to take a side here or even lend any weight to Talk Talk, but he hints at questions i asked myself before i decided to withdraw from propagandist media. I find it really puzzling that no one is even slightly intrigued about any of this.

I don't really care about it as such, but does nobody ever wonder about what REALLY goes on? I don't know anything and i don't profess to, but surely most people's knowledge is based on hearsay and a media that has been fed by the very political parties they want to vote over?

I'm being honest here and am honestly taking no sides, I just, you know, wonder? Does anyone ever wonder exactly what really is happening behind the scenes? Because I do not have the slightest clue and am aware i'm unlikely to ever have a clue. I find the whole thing a bit mind melting and caring about it a bit too much like hardwork if i'm honest.  

[sonicyouth]

Let me ask you a few questions.

- How many of the 3,000 odd laws that have been introduced in this country in the last ten years were you consulted on, agreed to and were happy with?
- How many of the EU commissioners did you actually vote into power?
- Were you ever asked if you wanted to be part of a European super state (as opposed to membership of a European trading association)?
- Did you personally agree or were ever consulted about 85% of the laws that apply in this country are now generated in a foreign country?
- Did you support soldiers going into Iraq or Afghanistan or were you ever asked?
- If it is ok for this country to invade Iraq with paid murderers (for that is what our soldiers really are), is it  ok for me to pay a Mafia hit man to come round your house and murder you? If not, why not?
- If it is fine for MPs and MEPs to take money from you and I under threat of prison (aka taxes) and spend it on themselves without fear of retribution, why can I not go round their (expensive) houses and at the point of a gun insist that they give me money to clear out my moat/install a new kitchen/pay for my brother to run my affairs? If not, why not?

when you make a post like that, you actually make very valid points that i admit to finding myself agreeing with.

i just don't understand why you feel the need to come on here and basically insult us all?

[iffy]

I stood on a platform of having no policies whatsoever (and I got laughed at by the LabLibCon candidates), my aim was to represent the electorate through listening to what they wanted and putting those desires forward in parliament. Which is what I thought democracy should be about?

What I learned is that the current major parties have so much money and want to preserve their positions/troughing/status quo so much that the chances of anybody outside the system having one iota of success are remote. The 'electorate' are so disenchanted with politicians - and so they should be - we have little effect on what they decide. Europe is just a bigger and more powerful/richer instance. And hence more attractive to the worst in society.

I'm through with it. But standing was a great eye opener and learning experience. Nope, voting makes no difference, they are all the same. Labour, Liberal, Conservative, UKIP, even the BNP. All in it for themselves. They do not represent us or even care about us. One day in the not too distant future we will all realise that we don't need them in any shape or form and they will be gone. Not in my life time though.

On one hand, I continue to find someone who can't tell the difference between the holocaust and the EU both offensive and ignorant.

On the other hand, these last couple of posts are childlike. It's so sweet. He has absolutely no conception of how the world works and his only hope is that it will go away.

[Talk Talk]

when you make a post like that, you actually make very valid points that i admit to finding myself agreeing with.

i just don't understand why you feel the need to come on here and basically insult us all?

Yeah, I know James. I really do.

It's just...

I know a fair bit about psychology and I do understand my personality. What I have problems with is supressing my frustration with all that is wrong in the world and it comes out as anger. It's a real bugger.

Mainly because I know that if I stick to logic and reasoning and evidence and the Socratic method (i.e. philosophy) then others might take note and my position might be understood without antagonism and perhaps I could influence people.

I know of others that have gone through the anger thing and now speak intelligently and clearly without emotion colouring their persona. I will get there I think. In the mean time I apologise.

[iffy]

What I have problems with is supressing my frustration with all that is wrong in the world and it comes out as anger. It's a real bugger.

The other group of people who have this issue? Toddlers.
The way they deal with it? They grow up.

[Talk Talk]

On the other hand, these last couple of posts are childlike. It's so sweet. He has absolutely no conception of how the world works and his only hope is that it will go away.

Right then, tell me how the world works. Answer these questions if you would be so kind.

- If it is ok for a police officer to stop and search me in the street, why can I not go to that police officer's house when they are off duty and demand that they allow me to search them?
- If letting the public have guns means that they will become more violent, why do we let soldiers and police officers have them? Do they become more violent? If not, why can't we have them?
- If forcing me to give money to the unemployed and the sick (through tax and benefits) is acceptable, why can't the unemployed or sick come round your house personally and insist that you give them money and if you don't you will go to prison?
- If drugs are 'bad' and they might lead to harmful excess and should be banned, why shouldn't everything else that might lead to excess be banned? How about exercise - it might result in compulsive physical activity? What about credit cards, they might lead to excess debt? And what about eating - it might lead to obesity?

All of the above are simple examples of universal moral principles that the state thinks that they are not subject to.

I know how the world works. There is 'us' who agree on what is right and wrong and there is 'them' who break all of our principles.

[Talk Talk]

The other group of people who have this issue? Toddlers.
The way they deal with it? They grow up.

Nice one.

[pauld]

It might help Alan if you didn't act like you had some kind of monopoly on the truth and treat anyone who hasn't SEEN THE LIGHT as fucking idiots. And if you didn't cite right-wing knitting circles, swivel-eyed US bloggers and Jeremy Fucking Clarkson in the name of all that's holy as authoritative sources.

[Talk Talk]

It might help Alan if you didn't act like you had some kind of monopoly on the truth and treat anyone who hasn't SEEN THE LIGHT as fucking idiots. And if you didn't cite right-wing knitting circles, swivel-eyed US bloggers and Jeremy Fucking Clarkson in the name of all that's holy as authoritative sources.

I'm not quoting 'authoritative sources' Paul. Sheesh, they aren't even vaguely peer reviewed. They are purely suggestions for an alternative view that the main stream media and the politicians do not reflect. Because they won't.

I don't profess to know 'the truth'. All I understand is that other theories about what is going on and how we are being (badly) used and abused by the powers that be ring true with me. As opposed to being brainwashed by the BBC et al that I think Barry was referring to.

You're as uppity as me really, ain't ya? 

[chalkies_shorts]

If you're an old fashioned socialist, who should you vote for now because I'm struggling. Who actually represents the good old fashioned working man, which weas traditionally Labour's turf. There were 4 things I said I'd never do in life. Eat tomatoes or any derivative, support the Scum, engage in sexual relations with another man or animal and vote Tory. At the moment I'm seriously in danger of compromising the last one. As i want out of Europe I can vote UKIP but I'm bloody confused.  

[chalkies_shorts]

I'm not quoting 'authoritative sources' Paul. Sheesh, they aren't even vaguely peer reviewed. They are purely suggestions for an alternative view that the main stream media and the politicians do not reflect. Because they won't.

I don't profess to know 'the truth'. All I understand is that other theories about what is going on and how we are being (badly) used and abused by the powers that be ring true with me. As opposed to being brainwashed by the BBC et al that I think Barry was referring to.

You're as uppity as me really, ain't ya? 

What's your view on David Icke?

[pauld]

If you're an old fashioned socialist, who should you vote for now because I'm struggling. Who actually represents the good old fashioned working man, which weas traditionally Labour's turf.

There's always Arthur's lot (joke - as in this post is, and they are)

[pauld]

What's your view on David Icke?

Shit keeper

[chalkies_shorts]

Shit keeper

Probably something to do with the scaly attachments he masqueraded as arms

[iffy]

All your questions are more or less variants of the question "why does the state have the rights it has over individuals and what are the limits of those rights". These are interesting questions.

As a member of a community, you give up certain things in exchange for things better delivered as part of group. Security is the obvious thing. Insurance is another - risks are better managed when shared by a big group of us. This creates a logic for healthcare and a welfare state.

But it's important to always test the balance of rights between individuals and groups. Either through democratic institutions (like elections) or civil society (like protests) or civil disobedience.

From a political philosophy point of view, you would be at home (I'm being presumptuous here) with Robert Nozick, whose "Anarchy, State and Utopia" is an interesting rebuttal to Rawls' "Theory of Justice". I think he's a bit batty, but at least it's closely argued. Personally I like Amaryta Sen's "Development as Freedom" and his ideas on capabilities but you should read that as a counter to Nozick. Put 'em on your christmas list.