Gordon Brown

[alanmayes]

Some good points have been raised concerning the MOD,especially when it come to procurement.
There are some facts that you might be interested in.Firstly,the MOD employs 85,000 people.

Secondly,a few years ago the MOD purchased Chinook helicopters directly from Boeing,but thought
they'd be clever by purchasing at a cheap rate,with the flight software to be written by firms such
as BAE Systems.As a result,they've hardly ever flown,because they can only fly in perfect weather
conditions and the MOD refuse to go back to Boeing,because of the loss of face.The MOD also tried
to develop a new torpedo system at huge expense,it's now been scrapped,after poor results.

It isn't only the British MOD who massively overspend,the US Government spends 7% of GDP on
defence.I was told by a friend this week that it costs $250,000 for every US Soldier in Afghanistan.

[Phil_S]

Do they? Even when you take into account benefits and stuff?

Or when you say "a civil servant" are you just picking out one civil servant in particular and haven't a go that he's earning too much?

On a related note, why do Bin Men and Sewage Workers get paid less than Fire Fighters? I reckon it's a fairly safe argument that a break down in refuse collection/sanitation systems would cause more deaths than if we got rid of the fire service.

In general the civil servants that are working in the UK at say Abbey wood are earning more than thge front line soldiers.  The benefits you refer to ?  Soldiers are charged for food & lodging except when actually in theatre. They both get final salary pensions, based on their salary.
Why does it take approx 80,000 civil sernants to support the armed forces that are just a few more in number ?

[axs]

In general the civil servants that are working in the UK at say Abbey wood are earning more than thge front line soldiers.  The benefits you refer to ?  Soldiers are charged for food & lodging except when actually in theatre. They both get final salary pensions, based on their salary.
Why does it take approx 80,000 civil sernants to support the armed forces that are just a few more in number ?

There's over 200,000 active personnel and as many reserves?

[pauld]

There's over 200,000 active personnel and as many reserves?

Oh, never let the facts get in the way of a good old-fashioned tabloid shlock horror story. Clearly we should send civil servants with highly sharpened pencils out to Helmand and make them fight to the death with the Taliban. It probably wouldn't be terribly effective militarily, but it would be an effective way of reducing the MOD budget without frontline cuts.

[sonicyouth]

i was disappointed that we're not talking about norway anymore. i had to put the dogs of war back on her leash.

[mexico red]

did you see the norweigan simpsons the other night? i thought of you.

[sonicyouth]

i didn't know such a thing existed

[mexico red]

[pumbaa]

In general the civil servants that are working in the UK at say Abbey wood are earning more than thge front line soldiers.  The benefits you refer to ?  Soldiers are charged for food & lodging except when actually in theatre. They both get final salary pensions, based on their salary.
Why does it take approx 80,000 civil sernants to support the armed forces that are just a few more in number ?

Phil, please remove your head from the sand (or at least from the over-zealous headlines you've read in the Sun, Telegraph and other populist media in the last two days). Its such a complete non-story its untrue, but obviously Mr Murdoch and other media tycoons obviously made a nice tidy profit from sensationalist headlines yesterday. Its also fair to say that the 'defence' put forward by the Home Secretary did absolutely fuck all to sway popular opinion.

I'll just get back to pushing my pen round my desk while drinking coffee and pocketing my substantial bonus then......

[pauld]

I'll just get back to pushing my pen round my desk while drinking coffee and pocketing my substantial bonus then......

Yeah, you profiteering bastard. Virtually stole those helicopters out of our boys' mouths so you could buy your luxury yacht. I know all about your sort, I read about you lot in England's premier taxdodger Viscount Rothermere's Daily Mail

[Talk Talk]

I read about you lot in England's premier taxdodger Viscount Rothermere's Daily Mail

There is absolutely nothing wrong with not paying any taxes at all. In fact I dream of the time when that will be true.

[flammableBen]

I disagree with lots of taxes, yet agree with others.

Fascinating eh?

Bad: VAT (Tory Favourite), Fags, Booze, Petrol, Licence Fee.

Good: Inheritance, Income.

[Talk Talk]

Bad: VAT (Tory Favourite)

NAAAAAAAHT! It's an EU tax. It all goes to Brussels to be redistributed to the unfortunate Irish, French farmers and the starving MEPs.

If it is ok for the EU to take money from me (or any other state body come to that) and if I say no they will lock me up, why can't I do the same thing to you Ben. I might pop round your house in a bit actually. Apart from the fact that you haven't got any dosh, obviously.

[flammableBen]

Don't be silly Talk Talk, the EU is ace, and I benefit from it's awesomeness.

In terms of services you offer me fuck all apart from giving me somebody to drunkenly argue with and taking snappy photos when I'm in a state on trains. And whilst I honestly appreciate both, I wouldn't pay for them.

[Talk Talk]

In terms of services you offer me fuck all apart from giving me somebody to drunkenly argue with and taking snappy photos when I'm in a state on trains. And whilst I honestly appreciate both, I wouldn't pay for them.

Would you pay me if I got you a job?