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Author Topic: 25 yrs ago today - The Miners Strike  (Read 4960 times)
chalkies_shorts

« Reply #15 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 12:07:38 »

A loss making industry that was heavily subsidised by the government was rightfully scaled back.

Must have been shit for the miner losing their jobs, but you cant run a country or an economy by offering people a job for life when it costs the nation more than you produce to keep you employed
So why not argue the points if it was that obviuos? Why engage counter terrorist specialists to bring down the miners? Why allow the police to knuckle just about anyone they wanted? If the case was that strong you wouldn't have needed it. She used criminal methods to bring them down and should have been tried in a court of law.
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Gazza's Fat Mate
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« Reply #16 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 12:49:17 »

A loss making industry that was heavily subsidised by the government was rightfully scaled back.

Must have been shit for the miner losing their jobs, but you cant run a country or an economy by offering people a job for life when it costs the nation more than you produce to keep you employed

Fuck em! well said ct! I'd have love to fuck thacther power granny shagging ace!!
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« Reply #17 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 13:04:39 »

So why not argue the points if it was that obviuos? Why engage counter terrorist specialists to bring down the miners? Why allow the police to knuckle just about anyone they wanted? If the case was that strong you wouldn't have needed it. She used criminal methods to bring them down and should have been tried in a court of law.

All true. But Scargills tactics where just as bad starting with the lack of a national ballot for strike action.  It all ended up as a battle of wills between thatcher & scargill.

Regardless of the means employed it needed to happen, Britian was a mess thanks to the likes of scargill.
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« Reply #18 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 13:07:49 »

one of the reasons i could never vote tory.
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Phil_S

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« Reply #19 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 13:13:12 »

The problem then was that the trade unions weren't just left wing. They were bent on anarchy, & it was wrecking the country.
The problem is that some industry's are crucial & stategic in my view. The coal industry's problem was that Britains coal is by and large underground. In Australia & other places they just have to scrape it off the surface, which is cheaper even if you then have to ship it round the world.
The uk coal is still there, (I think it's enough to last 300 yrs) but until it can be extracted economically, & then used in an enviromentally friendly way then there it will stay.
We've been lucky to have North Sea Oil for the last few decades, but unfortunately succesive governments have wasted the revenue, & not invested it. The Torys were guilty of this, (but at least they paid back some of the National Debt), but more so Gordon Brown.
The money should have been invested in projects such as a Severn Barrage, & solving the coal problem.
Instead Brown has thrown it away creating non-jobs for life for numerous Quango's & civil servants. Consider.....  the Dept of Trade & Industry used to run the all the utilitity Companies, the Coal industry et al yet today has more staff now it runs nothing.
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« Reply #20 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 13:23:03 »

Instead Brown has thrown it away creating non-jobs for life for numerous Quango's & civil servants. Consider.....  the Dept of Trade & Industry used to run the all the utilitity Companies, the Coal industry et al yet today has more staff now it runs nothing.

This is one of my biggest problems with left wing thinking, and also relates to the miners situation

In my view the government should employ as few a people as possible in order to run efficiently. The states role is not to provide employment but to run the country properly. State jobs do not create wealth they are a drain on wealth as taxpayers obviously foot the bill for their salary and very generous pensions. Some like Nurses, police, etc are obviously vitaly important and have a value that cant be measured  in  monetary terms.

Since Labour came to power again there are over a million more people on the government payroll. Civil servants (in general) by nature tend to be left leaning and more likley to vote Labour. Co-insidence?
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« Reply #21 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 13:51:33 »

simplistic drivel
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Colin Todd

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« Reply #22 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 13:53:31 »

 Cheesy

Unlike your point by point detailed response?
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Phil_S

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« Reply #23 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 13:58:30 »

This is one of my biggest problems with left wing thinking, and also relates to the miners situation

In my view the government should employ as few a people as possible in order to run efficiently. The states role is not to provide employment but to run the country properly. State jobs do not create wealth they are a drain on wealth as taxpayers obviously foot the bill for their salary and very generous pensions. Some like Nurses, police, etc are obviously vitaly important and have a value that cant be measured  in  monetary terms.

Since Labour came to power again there are over a million more people on the government payroll. Civil servants (in general) by nature tend to be left leaning and more likley to vote Labour. Co-insidence?

No Coincidence. Particularly as all the non jobs tend to be advertised in the Guardian. 
I am totally convenced that Browns No 1 priority is clinging on to power at all costs regardless of the cost to the country.
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« Reply #24 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 14:01:23 »

I am totally convenced that Browns No 1 priority is clinging on to power at all costs regardless of the cost to the country.

Shit!  Have you called MI5?
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« Reply #25 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 17:21:38 »

Is it any coincidence that when Thatcher came to power, the country was fucked after being lead into the gutter by a Labour Government....fast forward 25 years and we have much the same situation....people never learn....
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« Reply #26 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 18:01:05 »

Is it any coincidence that when Thatcher came to power, the country was fucked after being lead into the gutter by a Labour Government....fast forward 25 years and we have much the same situation....people never learn....

One thing is for certain...you'll never learn. 
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Ironside
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« Reply #27 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 18:55:38 »

I look forward
One thing is for certain...you'll never learn. 

I look forward to reading your obituary sooner rather later coffin dodger...
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Genius, Gentleman Explorer, French Cabaret Chantoose  and Small Bets Placed and someone who knows who they are changed my signature but its only know that I can be arsed to change it....and I mean all the spelling mistakes.

Was it me? It can't have been an interesting enough event for me to remember - fB.
dell boy

« Reply #28 on: Friday, March 6, 2009, 20:02:33 »

When Maggie came to power and the wave of patriotic fury with the Falklands life was good in Britain.
At the end of the day (you can tell I use to be a union guy) she left small businesses stranded without support from Government or the banks.
Lots of companies went to the wall and it was time for her to go. Those times were bad, really bad, the recession at the moment though is a lot worse though and I really feel for guys who are running their own business, where the hell do they get or who will support them through these times.
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« Reply #29 on: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 10:13:38 »

There are a few articles in the media,especially todays Guardian.

Some good memories from these involved in these articles..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/07/miners-strike-memories

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5847315.ece

Our Thatcher supporting TEF Posters will love the Guardian Editorial,but it trys to be objective in its analysis.

------------------------------

A war no one deserved to win

 Editorial

The Guardian, Saturday 7 March 2009


Distance simplifies, bleaching out subtler contours and human complexity. Thus, to many, peering back across 25 nation-changing years to the start of the 1984-85 miners' strike, the dispute now seems starkly Manichean, a contest between light and dark, neoliberalism and old solidarities, Thatcher and the unions, class and class, one side or the other. That is how the miners' leader Arthur Scargill portrayed it then and how he still portrays it in the article that we publish today.

Many in the former coalfields still see it that way too. The animosities engendered by the miners' strike will be carried to the grave, as they were after the 1926 conflict. To the unrepentant Mr Scargill, the conflict was a war for survival provoked by Margaret Thatcher's undoubted determination to break the unions, its tragic outcome entirely the product of cowardice, collaboration and betrayal for which he himself bears no shred of responsibility. Forgetting nothing and learning nothing, his inflexible message boils down to I told you so.

The real miners' strike, though, was not like that. Watch the increasingly grainy footage from the time and the recurring image is always of medieval combat between miners and the police. In practice, this was only rarely the case. After the violent spring and summer of 1984 the strike became a battle of attrition, with fewer clashes but full of coalfield suffering, that the late Peter Jenkins, in some of the finest reporting ever published in the Guardian, described as a feat of courage and endurance that earned the respect of the nation. Public opinion never wavered in opposition to the strike and its tactics, but the public's heart bled for the miners and their families. That is why the strike was such a searing and conflicted experience for so many who lived through those times.

The myth of the strike betrays the truth in other ways. Between the strikers and the government there were 49,000 determinedly non-striking miners, mainly in Nottinghamshire, whose refusal to strike without a national ballot set public opinion at odds with the strike but whom Mr Scargill never mentions except in terms of betrayal. Yet without understanding their objections, no one now can understand why the mass labour movement of the 1980s did not lift a finger on the miners' behalf. It was Mr Scargill's ruthless intransigence - always opposed to a national ballot, never conceding that there could ever be anything described as an uneconomic pit, and fighting to the last miner - which prevented the dispute from ending on any terms that compromised his revolutionary purity and which guaranteed that Mrs Thatcher's victory would be total. The two leaders deserved one another.

Between the 10,000 active pickets and the at times even larger numbers of police there were 120,000 men in the middle, the solid core of the striking miners who endured with their families in their villages, and who were undoubtedly the conflict's most tragic victims. It was they, as much as Mr Scargill's manipulations or the intimidation of the pickets, who kept the dispute going. They stood by their leader to the end. When the end came they were starved back to work. Lions led by donkeys indeed.

With other tactics, the miners might have won, or been able to manage their industry's decline more humanely; if that had happened, there might be a bright future for British coal today. But the great lesson of the strike was that the industrial class war as fought by Mr Scargill was over. The miners were on their own in a Britain that found it could get along without either coal or communities - and increasingly without unions too. In the end it was arguably more necessary for the government to prevail over the NUM than the reverse. But it was a war no one deserved to win and there was nothing just in Mrs Thatcher's victory. The wound has not yet been healed. There was no cause for celebration either then or now.
« Last Edit: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 11:33:34 by alanmayes » Logged

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