THis makes me f'in angry

[Ironside]

As CT made the point, surely its a complete and utter failing by this government not provide enough training and support to these people?  

They took the easy option and instead of investing time and money in them, they imported people to the jobs instead.  In doing so they condemmed them to a life in the underclass.

[flammableBen]

Spot on Hertha. The whole employment / benefits system needs scraping and starting again.

Some of the people you refer to should be able to do something vaguely useful with the right training and a state sponsored kick up the arse. ie lose benefit money if you dont take this job.

The system should be structured to provide an incentive to work, ie a minimum wage job should lead to a greater income than sitting on the dole, with the all housing benefit etc that comes with it.

A minimum wage job does pay a lot more than the doll doesn't it? Maybe not if you add in housing benefit as well, but I thought you can still get that if you weren't earning much?

Say 1 in 5 doll claimers are taking the piss with no intention of getting a job. Is it worth punishing the other 4 to get at them? Especially in the current economic climate.

There's always got to be incentives, but there has to be the right balance of the carrot and stick. Beat people who already aren't doing so well further into poverty and you start taking away their chances of turning it around.

I'm sure there are plenty out there who thought they were completely safe 6months ago, who are now pretty pleased the safety net is there.

[Arriba]

people on non disabilty benefits should have to do community work to earn their money and council homes.they could clean graffitti,pick up litter,etc,etc.

[herthab]

As CT made the point, surely its a complete and utter failing by this government not provide enough training and support to these people?  

They took the easy option and instead of investing time and money in them, they imported people to the jobs instead.  In doing so they condemmed them to a life in the underclass.

The thing is they don't want support or training. We've been trying the carrot for years, now's the time to try the stick.

As Arriba said, make it impossible not to work if you're able. There's enough public works that can be done and if people were forced, I'm sure they would start looking at training for other employment.

[herthab]

A minimum wage job does pay a lot more than the doll doesn't it? Maybe not if you add in housing benefit as well, but I thought you can still get that if you weren't earning much?

Say 1 in 5 doll claimers are taking the piss with no intention of getting a job. Is it worth punishing the other 4 to get at them? Especially in the current economic climate.

There's always got to be incentives, but there has to be the right balance of the carrot and stick. Beat people who already aren't doing so well further into poverty and you start taking away their chances of turning it around.

I'm sure there are plenty out there who thought they were completely safe 6months ago, who are now pretty pleased the safety net is there.

There's a big difference between a safety net and a lifestyle choice Ben.

I'm not saying punish anyone, I'm advocating a program where, if you can work, you do work.

[DMR]

How the heck do you make impossible not to work these days?

Last I heard there weren't that many jobs kicking about.... Unless being made redundant is a job. You say public works but who's gonna fund that then?

[Colin Todd]

I dont disagree with anything you have said Ben.

My understanding is that if an unemployed person on full benefits took a min wage job then they may well be worse off in total through a large fall in total benefits even though a full time min wage job obviously pays more than the dole.  This is fucking stupid. In their position i'm not sure i'd bother getting out of bed to do a shit job and end up no better off at the  end of the week.

The carrot should be net income (wages + benefit "top ups") being significantly higher than doing nothing.

The stick should be a cut in benefits if they refuse to take a job.

Obviously now isnt the time to be doing any of this because the economy is fucked and unemployment is rising.  But labour did have 10 years of "good times" to do something about this issue and chose to import eastern europeans instead as Ironside stated.

[herthab]

How the heck do you make impossible not to work these days?

Last I heard there weren't that many jobs kicking about.... Unless being made redundant is a job. You say public works but who's gonna fund that then?

It's already being paid for in the way of benefits and dole. Wouldn't cost much more than we already shell out.

[DMR]

The flippant response would be to ask well what's the point then, just as well leave it then have people half-arsing about in some job they're forced into for the sake of it? Not that I'd ever be flippant.

[herthab]

The flippant response would be to ask well what's the point then, just as well leave it then have people half-arsing about in some job they're forced into for the sake of it? Not that I'd ever be flippant.

The point Dave is at least they'd be contributing, instead of dossing around and getting involved in shit. It would also kick start some of them to actually go into training/look for other jobs.

I don't mind paying for education, the elderly, people with disabilities, etc, but I do object to helping able bodied people doss.

(Fucking hell, I'm making Ironside look like a Liberal!)

[DMR]

I wouldn't go that far, you haven't blamed the darkies yet.

[herthab]

Good point.

[Ironside]

How the heck do you make impossible not to work these days?

Last I heard there weren't that many jobs kicking about.... Unless being made redundant is a job. You say public works but who's gonna fund that then?

I saw Question Time about 6-8 weeks ago and they had Hazel Blears on stating there were still approximately 600k vacancies in the UK (Funnily enough that's about the same number that the government used 11 years ago when they opened up the borders to all and sundry, wonder why they haven't filled them bearing in mind we've seen the population shoot up up by 5 million, that we know about?)

Adittionally, Mad McBroon has already stated his desire "spend his way out of recession" by funding a massive "public works" building programme.

[leefer]

I,ts a fine line isnt it...my gripe is that people who work hard should be given a little extra help...i do 40-60 hours per week,thats my choice and i pay out tax,nat insurance and on top of that 25 per week council tax.....in all over 200 pounds per week thats 10,000 per year....probably half a million pounds in my life time,i want to work extra at the weekend...no point because its a second job and my tax goes up to 40%!!!...ware the fuk is the help and incentive there for someone who just wants to work more....

[DMR]

I saw Question Time about 6-8 weeks ago and they had Hazel Blears on stating there were still approximately 600k vacancies in the UK (Funnily enough that's about the same number that the government used 11 years ago when they opened up the borders to all and sundry, wonder why they haven't filled them bearing in mind we've seen the population shoot up up by 5 million, that we know about?)

Adittionally, Mad McBroon has already stated his desire "spend his way out of recession" by funding a massive "public works" building programme.

Didn't she also point out this was about 120,000 or so down on last year or did I read that elsewhere? I'm not really sure how far you can read in to that number anyway. Where are these jobs in relation to areas of high unemployment? Skilled work? 1 hour a week positions?