[F1] McLaren excluded from world champ'ship... Or are they

[Batch]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12479_2726659,00.html

McLaren have been excluded from the 2007 and 2008 Formula One World Championships.

According to www.planetf1.com, the Woking team, who faced the FIA's World Motor Sport Council for the second time in Paris on Thursday after new evidence came to light, were found guilty of using Ferrari's information in this year's championship.

The punishment is their exclusion from this year and next year's World Championships - although it remains unclear whether this means the drivers' and/or constructors' championship

However

The World Motor Sport Council has yet to agree on a final verdict, despite our earlier newsflash suggesting otherwise.

Sources have told autosport.com one of the options currently reviewed is to exclude McLaren from both the 2007 and 2008 championship - in line with the World Motor Sport Council's decision in July.

However the FIA said no decision has yet been made, although a verdict is expected imminently.

[janaage]

That is an awful sport, possibly the most over rated sport still around.

[Batch]

Coming down off yesterdays football high par chance?

[Northern Red]

FIA = Ferrari Influenced Arsebandits :fu:

Stop ruining the fucking sport to make Ferrari win

[Barry Scott]

McLaren deserve everything they get. Cheating is wrong in any sport. Ron Dennis is a cunt.

I don't understand what you mean at all Northern Red?

Ferrari had their documents viewed and used, by their closest rival, which gave full details of their 2007 car in it's entirety. McLaren don't deserve points for copying a superior car to get further up the grid. Cheaters shouldn't be allowed to compete, they should face some kind of ban.

Are drug fuelled athletes allowed to compete?

The week following McLaren, supposedly not looking at the manual, McLaren start winnning, when they were clearly off the pace of Ferrari in the first 3 races.... Why should they be allowed to benefit from another teams R&D? Fuck 'em.

I would be pleased if Hamilton became world champ, but to be fair i don't care about his team, in fact i hate his team, so with him being a McLaren driver, it's rough with the smooth and off with his points i say.

He should just go to the better team...  

[Northern Red]

Super Aguri's car is a copy of the Honda of last season - they've as good as admitted it
The Red Bull this year contains many designs that came straight from the McLaren drawing board due the move by the designer Adrian Newey.

It happens all the time in F1 - but the only one in court and splashed around the media is the Ferrari vs McLaren (remember the illegal braking system used by McLaren a few years ago - Ferrari were quick to put that in a full FIA Court in and attempt to get the result in Australia nullified)

Let's not forget that the Ferrari used in the first race of this season was also illegal by the redefinition of the scruntineering height measurements. They are not going back and changing the points for that race are they? (a la 1998)

The retrospective tampering with the sport has happened before and only seems to be where Ferrari are involved as the 'innocent' party.

And remember that the greatest cheat of all time, Schumacher, was only stripped of his second place and not banned from future competition.

Bernie's been trying to get rid of Ron for years and he might just managed to pay for it to happen this time around...

And it's not really to do with Hamilton - I think they'll leave the driver points untouched.

It's just all got silly - it was one Ferrari boy working with a Mclaren boy trying to find a new team together (Honda). Just because we didn't find anything in Ferrari's garage what's to say that Ferrari didn't have the schematics of the McLaren, because Stepney and Coughlin were trying to leave both teams and take their ideas to Honda...

[Batch]

Latest unconfirmed:

$100 million fine, no constructors points this season, but drivers allowed to keep their points.

[Summerof69]

McLaren have been stripped of their points in the 2007 Formula One constructors championship after the outcome of the 'spygate' row.
The team was also fined $100m (£49.2m) and will have to subject its 2008 cars to examination before racing, but the drivers retain their points this year.

[Matchworn Shirts]

IF they are guilty, they should take away all constructors points/drivers points and ban for the rest of the season

[Summerof69]

FIA = Ferrari Influenced Arsebandits :fu:

Stop ruining the fucking sport to make Ferrari win

 

I lost how many times Schumacher and Ferrari broke the rules over the years, by making sure Schumacher 'wins' by making Barrichello let him pass and you've got the farce at the US Grand Prix when thanks to Ferrari only 6 cars started.

[land_of_bo]

I guess they can appeal?

[pumbaa]

Official statement from the ITV F1 Website

McLaren loses all constructors' points
Thursday, 13, September, 2007, 18:34  
 
 
The FIA World Motor Sport Council has disqualified McLaren from the 2007 constructors' championship and fined the team $100 million, but Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso can continue to battle for the drivers' crown.

After a day of deliberations at the hearing in Paris, the governing body decided to punish the team for breaking the sporting regulations by possessing confidential Ferrari data.

But while the decision to exclude McLaren from the constructors' contest hands that title to Ferrari, McLaren's drivers have not received any penalty.

Hamilton and Alonso's contest for the world championship will therefore continue unaffected in the remaining four rounds.

The team's $100 million fine is the largest in motorsport history.

McLaren will also have to present its 2008 car for examination by the FIA before the start of next season.

More details to follow...

Whatever the rights and wrongs in this case, I really don't think we'll ever know the FULL facts behind all these shenanigans.

[Matchworn Shirts]

BMW second in the constructors championship

[pumbaa]

From the official Formula One website:

It is the story that has dominated headlines and gripped the paddock, but after seemingly endless twists and turns, the McLaren-Ferrari ‘spy scandal’ is set to be resolved in Paris today, with a second hearing by the FIA’s World Motor Sport Council.

The Council will consider new evidence in the case. Should that evidence prove McLaren made use of confidential Ferrari data in the development of their car, the team could face expulsion from the 2007 and 2008 world championships.

Along with senior management from both teams, among those attending the hearing are Ferrari's former technical director Ross Brawn, currently on sabbatical, and drivers' championship leader, Lewis Hamilton.

As the world's media awaits news from Paris, we look back at the timeline of an affair that could yet decide this year’s titles…

June, 2007
Reports claim that long-time Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney is under investigation by Italian authorities after an unspecified complaint is made against him by the team. Stepney protests his innocence, denying suggestions that he attempted to sabotage Ferrari’s cars at the Monaco Grand Prix.

July 3, 2007
Ferrari reveal Stepney has left the company after an ‘internal disciplinary procedure’.

July 4, 2007
Ferrari confirm they have presented a legal case against Stepney concerning the alleged theft of technical information. The team say a staff member from rivals McLaren is also involved in the investigation.

McLaren confirms the involvement, and suspension, of an unnamed employee - subsequently revealed as senior designer Mike Coughlan. After a full review of their cars, the team insist that no intellectual property from Ferrari has been used.

The FIA announces a formal investigation into the matter, with the full cooperation of both teams.

July 5, 2007
Ferrari admit it was a source outside of Formula One racing that tipped them off to the possibility of a McLaren having obtained their intellectual property.

July 6, 2007
Honda’s CEO Nick Fry reveals that Stepney and Coughlan paid a joint visit to the team in June, with ‘a view to investigating job opportunities’. Fry stresses that that no confidential information was offered or received during the meeting.

July 10-11, 2007
A hearing is held at London’s High Court with Ferrari lawyers and Coughlan in attendance. Reports cite allegations that the suspended designer and his wife submitted 780 pages of Ferrari documentation to a photocopy shop in Woking.

July 12, 2007
Ferrari confirm that Coughlan has provided them with an affidavit relating to the enquiry, but that both the designer and his wife remain the subject of a London High Court action by the team.

McLaren are summoned to appear before the FIA World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) to answer a charge of breaching the International Sporting Code by possessing confidential Ferrari data. The team maintain that no other staff members were aware of the material.

July 26, 2007
At the Paris hearing, the WMSC finds McLaren guilty of breaching the Sporting Code, but choose not to impose sanctions as there is no proof that the team made use of the data. However, McLaren are warned that if such proof later comes to light, they could face exclusion from the 2007 and 2008 championships. The WMSC also calls on Stepney and Coughlan to appear before the FIA.

Ferrari describe the decision not to punish McLaren as “incomprehensible” and vow to continue with legal action already underway against Stepney and Coughlan.

July 30, 2007
Ferrari boss Jean Todt claims Coughlan had access to leaked Ferrari data prior to the start of the 2007 season, and that it prompted McLaren’s subsequent request for FIA clarification over the use of ‘moveable’ floors.

July 31, 2007
FIA president Max Mosley refers the case to the International Court of Appeal following suggestions that the original WMSC hearing had not given Ferrari sufficient opportunity to present their version of events.

August 2, 2007
McLaren team principal Ron Dennis accuses Ferrari of winning the Australian Grand Prix with an illegal car and of manipulating media coverage to damage his team’s reputation.

August 7, 2007
The FIA sets a date for the appeal. The International Court of Appeal (ICA) will meet in Paris on Thursday, September 13.

September 5, 2007
A week before the appeal hearing, the FIA announces that “following the receipt of new evidence” the WMSC will instead reconvene to make a fresh judgment on the McLaren-Ferrari ‘spy scandal’.

September 7, 2007
The FIA reveals it has written to McLaren drivers Fernando Alonso, Pedro de la Rosa and Lewis Hamilton after allegations they may have information relevant to the case. They are warned that failure to disclose any such information could involve serious consequences. Lawyers advise McLaren to make no further comment ahead of the WMSC hearing.

September 8, 2007
Modena’s public prosecutor, Giuseppe Tibis, issues ‘avviso di garanzia’ - legal notice that someone is under investigation in a criminal procedure - to Stepney and six McLaren personnel, including Dennis, group managing director Martin Whitmarsh and Jonathan Neale, the team’s managing director.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

[Batch]

I guess they can appeal?

Ron Denis is holding a press conference at 7:15 pm. We'll see what he says, but I'd imagine it'll be a few days before they decide whether to appeal.