Bernard Manning Dead

[herthab]

Lumps, you make some good points, but then you fuck it up with stupid statements.

Watch any documentary about the mass migration of blacks and asians to this country in the late 50's and early 60's. Listen to what the white people being interviewed (Man on the street type interviews) said about it and the terminology they used.

They wouldn't class themselves as racist, but definitions change over time and in todays more enlightened era, they most definitely were!

As to linking Manning to the rise of the NF, that's just silly. The bloke told jokes FFS! When I was a kid rasist jokes were told all the time, by everyone, the difference with Manning was that he never moved on and everyone else did.

[OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR]

I will admit to having laughed at Bernarnd Manning. Maybe even more than once.

I'm worried.

Am I a Nazi? :shock:

[Lumps]

A black man walks into a pub with a parrot on his shoulder. The barman says "Where did you get that ?" and the parrot replies "Africa. There's fucking millions of them"

Sorry Lumps but I thought that was funny.

"What the joke says is that in the mind of the barman, and for that matter of jokes narrator, the parrot is a closer to being their equal than a black man. A parrot is higher up the evolutionary scale as far as they're concerned. "

And personally I think that is a load of crap.

Why's it "funny" then?
Stand up comedy works in two ways. The comedy of recognition that the whole aternative comedy movement has mined to exhaustion. The comic says something that acknowledges a truth that the audience recognises as true, but if they're good says it an a way that's novel or slightly at an angle from the obvious.

And the more traditional gag. Mannings game. That works by setting up the joke and then unleashing an unexpected punchline. It relies on there being a twist from the normal, a strange juxtaposition, or reversal of expectation.

That's what creates the laugh.

Can you analyse the joke differently to me and explain how it works other than in the way I described?

If you can I'll take you seriously. Otherwise, frankly you're fooling yourself and probably not very many other people.

[herthab]

I will admit to having laughed at Bernarnd Manning. Maybe even more than once.

I'm worried.

Am I a Nazi? :shock:

Take this quick test.

Do you have a involuntary need to raise your right arm all the time?

Do you like black leather boots and jodphurs?

Do you think that Hitler was a misunderstood genius?

Do you often get the urge for world domination?

Are you a vegetarian?

Are you a non smoker?

Are you teetotal?

If you answered yes more times than no, I'm afraid you are definitely a nazi.....



FACT.

[ron dodgers]

I will admit to having laughed at Bernarnd Manning. Maybe even more than once.

I'm worried.

Am I a Nazi? :shock:

No - unless you commit gross acts of genocide. Bernard Manning  thankfully, is part of a dying breed; racism is a panic induced reaction to the fact that the working class of this country have to get off there arses and prove how fucking good they really are (or not)
Back to bollocks - I preferred Les Dawson and he was rather sexist.

[Lumps]

Lumps, you make some good points, but then you fuck it up with stupid statements.

Watch any documentary about the mass migration of blacks and asians to this country in the late 50's and early 60's. Listen to what the white people being interviewed (Man on the street type interviews) said about it and the terminology they used.

They wouldn't class themselves as racist, but definitions change over time and in todays more enlightened era, they most definitely were!

As to linking Manning to the rise of the NF, that's just silly. The bloke told jokes FFS! When I was a kid rasist jokes were told all the time, by everyone, the difference with Manning was that he never moved on and everyone else did.

I think you've missed my point. I'm not bothered that the fat cunt told racist jokes. I'm not bothered that people laugh at racist jokes. I know that I've laughed at things that are based on a view of the workd that I don't personally hold.

I would have found the man objectionable if he'd never told a joke in his life. He made my skin creep most when he was being interviewed frankly. His view of the world was just completely ugly.

I don't think I'm disagreeing with you about what the 60's and 70's were like either. It was a time when overt racism was more acceptable. All I'm saying is that didn't make it universal and it didn't make it alright. There were plenty of people who found racism objectionable in the 60's and 70', and there's plenty of history of social movements to prove it.

But I can vividly remember standing in the playground at Eldene Primary School, next to my best friend and next door neighbour Chris, a mixed race lad who's Dad was a white RAF officer based at Lyneham, and who's Mum was from Guyana, whilst about forty other white kids sat on the walls that ran around the grounds and hurled monkey chants and racial insults at him, and the teachers stood and watched.

Yes things have moved on, thank fuck. I'm sure those teachers would be ashamed to be reminded of those scenes.

I'm just saying let's not seek to excuse those people who would still find that acceptable. no matter how old they are.

[Arriba]

is what manning did any different to borat?

[OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR]

is what manning did any different to borat?

I think perhaps you may be about to get slated. I could be wrong. Put your tin hat on just in case though

[Lumps]

touchy.

you a darkie then lumps?  

Yeah. Just a very pasty faced one. But go back far enough, 60,000 years or so, and there's definitely African genetic material.

But that's the case for the entire population of the world, including BM!

Which brings the whole "you're not English just because you're born here" thing into perspective.

Because fundamentally, there isn't anything else.
Ok you can say your parents need to be born here, or your Grandparents, Great grandparents, whatever. But those are just quantative extensions of the same thing.

There isn't anything else to define what "English" is. Because, (whisper it quietly in case Ironside is listening), when it comes down to hard science ....... race doesn't really exist much. It's a bit of a social construct.

That hippy liberal bollocks about us all being the same under the skin?  Turns out to be true.

Who'd have thought eh?

[mexico red]

bernard manning spouted racist rhetoric, not just racist jokes, as far as im concerned one less ignorant twat breathing the same air as me.

i will say it again, im glad hes dead.

[OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR]

I will admit to having laughed at Bernarnd Manning. Maybe even more than once.

I'm worried.

Am I a Nazi? :shock:

No - unless you commit gross acts of genocide. Bernard Manning  thankfully, is part of a dying breed; racism is a panic induced reaction to the fact that the working class of this country have to get off there arses and prove how fucking good they really are (or not)
Back to bollocks - I preferred Les Dawson and he was rather sexist.

Les Dawson had a lot more talent than he was given credit for. I mean, he really could play the piano, he had shown signs of being a really good serious actor prior to his untimely demise and he wrote about 10 books (I haven't read any mind you so I don't know if they were any good)

Anywho........back to topic.......

[Lumps]

is what manning did any different to borat?

Errrr, are you taking the piss or have you just not seen any of the many clips of the film or myriad of TV appearances?

I'll be generous and assume the latter.

Think on this:

A man dresses up as someone from a nation assumed to be backward and reactionary in order to expose the prejudices of the people he speaks to in the US. He pretends that his nation is overtly anti-semetic to encourage those he interviews to be honest about how they feel about Jews (when he is in fact Jewish himself)

You're asking is that the same as:

Someone who asks the four black men in the front row of one of his live shows to stand up and then mimes shooting each one of them

Hmmmmm....... well let me think...........

NO!

If you want a historical point of comparison to Borat... then I give you
.....
.
.
.
.

Alf Garnet  - Also much misunderstood and played by a Jewish actor.

[Arriba]

is what manning did any different to borat?

Errrr, are you taking the piss or have you just not seen any of the many clips of the film or myriad of TV appearances?

I'll be generous and assume the latter.

Think on this:

A man dresses up as someone from a nation assumed to be backward and reactionary in order to expose the prejudices of the people he speaks to in the US. He pretends that his nation is overtly anti-semetic to encourage those he interviews to be honest about how they feel about Jews (when he is in fact Jewish himself)

You're asking is that the same as:

Someone who asks the four black men in the front row of one of his live shows to stand up and then mimes shooting each one of them

Hmmmmm....... well let me think...........

NO!

If you want a historical point of comparison to Borat... then I give you
.....
.
.
.
.

Alf Garnet  - Also much misunderstood and played by a Jewish actor.

fair comments and i agree but,manning was of jewish decendancy and a roman catholic,he ripped both of those.so thats where i am comparing to borat.also i'd love to hear what those 4 black men thought of mannings act.i'd bet they loved it.

manning also gave money to charitys jewish,black ect ect.but that gets ignored by many

[Lumps]

I will admit to having laughed at Bernarnd Manning. Maybe even more than once.

I'm worried.

Am I a Nazi? :shock:

No - unless you commit gross acts of genocide. Bernard Manning  thankfully, is part of a dying breed; racism is a panic induced reaction to the fact that the working class of this country have to get off there arses and prove how fucking good they really are (or not)
Back to bollocks - I preferred Les Dawson and he was rather sexist.

Les Dawson had a lot more talent than he was given credit for. I mean, he really could play the piano, he had shown signs of being a really good serious actor prior to his untimely demise and he wrote about 10 books (I haven't read any mind you so I don't know if they were any good)

Anywho........back to topic.......

I know I'm dominating this thread in a rather sad way, but I can't let any discussion of Les Dawson go by without taking the chance to say what a sadly underestimated comic genius the man was.

As for the sexist thing. I'd argue the toss on that. Certainly his earlier work did deal with a lot of the same subject matter as a whole generation of northern club comics. But he tended to be the the butt of most of his own jokes.

The mother in law joke did loom large. But it's worth bearing in mind that good comedy stems from the truth of the comics lived experience. And back in the day when young couples didn't just move into their own new Barrett home inlaws played a much more fundamental role in their lives.

Maybe with the way house prices are going we might see the mother in law return to the acts of cutting edge young comics?

Les Dawson - He was Ace.

He even made Blankety Blank worth watching.

[Arriba]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=462884&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART

interesting article