Thetownend.com

When you look at the predicted pension amount online, does this mean you will get this in addition to COPE amount, or minus COPE amount.

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

e.g.
IF cope amount is £40 p/w and your state pension prediction is £180

Does the government pay you £140 or £180. Its not overly clear.

I mean I'm proper fucked anyway so I guess it doesn't matter, its a few years into the future anyway,

Not sure how old you are, I'm late 40's and have reached the conclusion that I am unlikely to get any form of pension from the state or I will not reach the age to receive it with the speed they keep whacking the age up.

Well yeah, ditto. Very very very  late 40s

Was more an academic exercise after spotting something (that doesn't apply to me) on MSE

COPE is contracting out stuff isn't it? I don't have anything like that and you should definitely get proper advice from someone who knows what they're doing, but my understanding from a limited amount of time working for a pensions company was that contracting out stuff was meant to fill a gap, so I'd be surprised if it took you over the "normal" entitlement.

There is a bit about Contracting out here. I should really know what it's about as I used to work for a pension company but I seriously either can't remember or wasn't paying a lot of attention! I think before 2016 you had the option to Contract out and have your National Insurance payments go into a personal or Stakeholder pension (from memory I think the most you could pay was £3,600). Apologies I can't be any more help!

https://www.gov.uk/contracted-out

it contracting out where part of the then SERPs was paid into a private pension, SERPs is long gone (2016) and  I assume COPE will be a deduction from the predicted amount should I not get the full 35 years.. But it's not as clear as it could be!

what confused me when looking for the answer was this;


which seems odd, but isn't Government official

https://www.theprivateoffice.com/pensions/state-pensions

made me wonder if the ni I did pay was still enough to qualify. but idk

Surely your state pension is paid in full regardless of any extra private pensions.
I drew what little I had in a private pension and still get the full current pension amount,  only difference is you would probably have to pay tax on the private pension.

Sorry, to clarify, before 2016 in state terms:
   - There was a basic pension
   - There was a second part, State Earnings related pension scheme  (SERPS)

You paid into both parts.

However there was an option to "contract out" paying into SERPS. Instead the money that went into SERPS Government pot went into the your own private pension instead. So the Government got less from you if you were contracted out.

The question I'm asking is whether this "contracted out" amount is effectively "clawed back" when it comes to your sate pension when you retire. This could be done by reducing your state pension by a weekly amount equivalent to the contracted out amount (COPE).

You will of course get whatever you are due in your private pension.

No,  that is what I am saying,  your state pension is your state pension regardless.  Presuming of course you have made sufficient contributions.   I was in the same scenario as you and I still get my full pension.

ah, thanks!

As said earlier, not expecting anything. Nice to know my money is being put to good use for the future :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Thanks again Maniac, I found out COPE was only used in evaluation for the 2016 change to the new scheme and is exactly as you said.

@Tans, if we run out of state pension money my retirement plan is to keep working. My private pension is currently above the national average, but nowhere near enough to live off come retirement age. And there will be people worse off. Blimey.

Having retired a few years back I tried to walk across this minefield! I contracted out and therefore was not entitled to the full state pension. The other difference was I had to ensure I had paid my NI contributions for 40 years not 35 years. (This difference often confuses people) As I decided to take early retirement I had a shortfall in my number of “qualifying years” to enable me to receive my full entitlement. Just to add this was not the same as a full state pension because I continued to contract out.
The other thing worth checking as the Government info that I read at that time failed to mention I needed to pay my NIC’s for 40 years up to my actual retirement date. So it’s 40 years going backwards from your retirement date. I actually had more than 40 years contributions but I had to make contributions up to the day I actually retired. Hence I made some AVC’s to ensure I receive my full entitlement but I still don’t get a full pension as I contracted out as mentioned above.
My advice is find yourself a good independent Financial Advisor plus things may have changed since I went through the minefield.

At the time i was contemplating retirement  (I was self employed), my accountant told me it was better to have underpaid on NHI contributions as any amount you needed to ensure you got the full pension could be paid after retirement whereas if you had more than the necessary contributions you didn’t get them back,  may have changed since then but not to my (limited !!) knowledge.

Thanks mate !!.
P.S.   Can I have an increase next year please as my season ticket is sure to go up.

That will go up😀

On the plus side, Life Expectancy has fallen.

The state pension forecast system is good, but also terribly unclear.

The amount you see in big bold font is what you MIGHT get if you carry on paying National Insurance each year up until your state pension age. Usually it'll show the current state pension amount (£185.15pw). Most people will end up getting to this figure, but it's not guaranteed and will be different if you don't make the full quota of National Insurance contributions between the forecast date and state pension age.

Just below that box will be another figure, which is the amount of state pension you've actually built up based on your National Insurance record to date. This amount is essentially guaranteed, your future state pension won't be any less than this.

The COPE amount is, in theory, the amount the pension that received your contracted-out contributions would pay you in addition to the state pension.

In some odd situations it's possible for state pension to be in excess of the current amount if you were entitled to more under old state pension systems.

Happy to answer anything specific if it'll help further.

thanks Sam

so does that mean someone who contacted out is (very slightly) better off than someone who didn't - assuming they both qualify for a full pension.

it must do, right?

winner! baked beans on toast will be within reach

I started receiving my pension 18 months ago. I get the full amount State Pension even though I lived, and not clocking up any NI contributions, for the 10 years I lived in Ireland.

You have to be out of the ‘system’ for quite some time to not make the full 35 years worth of contributions.

At the moment trying to find out if Mrs Audrey will get an Irish State Pension as well as the UK one. She clocked up 10 years of contributions which is the minimum you need to qualify for a slice.

Potentially, yes, but not necessarily. Most people were contracted out by default through ocupational schemes, and will easily build 35 years of NIC, so will get full state pension plus have their contracted out pot.

As I alluded to above though, the old pre-2016 state pension was hideously complex and based on earnings levels. I've seen people who were contracted in to S2P/SERPS with state pensions >£250pw.

Under old EU rules, social security arrangements are preserved regardless of which state you accrue them in, so in theory Mrs Audrey's Irish state pension entitlement will be paid as part of her UK state pension.

ah I see Sam. I think I'm getting there.

I watched some of the Martin Lewis show during the week and it reminded me of this thread.

You can currently backdate missed years back to 2006 but after 6th April they are changing the rules and you can only backdate missed years back to 2017.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2023/02/martin-lewis-urgent-state-pension-boost/

Prediction? There won’t be one for my kids.

Thank you.

This is a very big deal for any approaching - or past - retirement age.  And if you have missed a few or several years of NI contributions for whatever reason.  It could be right now or never.

So I urge you to look at Bob's link, however boring!

It has enabled my wife to very significantly boost her State Pension due to missing years re NI contributions.

The cost of buying an equivalent annuity (compared to catching up with missing NI Contribution years) might have been 10 times the amount.

My wife receives state mention the figure you quote, I receive a far higher figure and haven't got a clue why.
I am 68.

Did you have SERPS? Or where you opted out and contributing to a workplace pension?