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Anyone got one? If so how you finding it and would you change back to diesel or petrol.

Coworker went to Hull last week in his new Mustang and took him over 8 hours due to chargers not working at service stations, or queues to use a charger. They are fine for shorter journeys but the country isn’t ready for electric cars enmasse at the moment and long journeys become a bit of a lottery. My next will probably be a plug in hybrid, but really could do with Hydrogen fuel cells taking off.

Cheers theakston, that type of thing dosen't get mentioned so nice to hear the negative stories so consumers can weigh up their options.

No thanks.

The jury is still out for me but in a few years we won't have a choice.

It's inevitable that there will be push back from those of a certain age and/or are resistant to any change.  I will be buying an electric car in the next 3 years and I am looking forward to it. I wouldn't say no to hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicle either.

As for consumer experience, there is a wealth of material available online.

Friend of mine on the island has a VW ID4. Goes like stink with brilliant acceleration. Has a range of c300km which is ideal for island driving. On the mainland, however, he found it a bit of a chore waiting 30 minutes to charge up en route to Athens and again upon return. Always the chance you could be in a queue to use a charging point which would lead to long waits.

I’d imagine on a really long trip you’d have to throughly plan your route around charging points.

The car itself is no problem at all. It’s the present infrastructure supporting it which is the problem.

What intrigues me and which hasn't been mentioned to my knowledge is the government collected 21 billion pounds in fuel tax last year so where will that money be recuperated from when the pumps eventually close.

Locally you can have your own electric point fitted for around a £1000 which would help with the charging and like you say if you're driving long distances you would need to do some research

Pay per mile

Does that happen now

Part of the deal with VW was a home charging point.

Another thing to think of is those people whose car may well be parked well away from their residence e.g. apartment or house with no off road parking.

Then you’ve got to think of how the hell will HGVs be replaced. It’s a really difficult situation for anyone who is looking to buy a new car approaching the deadline date. At what point do you sell, or try to sell, your existing petrol or diesel car. Who’ll buy a second hand one with the electric deadline looming. People could be left with a worthless lump of metal.

Also think of the second hand market in a few years when the batteries will be coming to the end of their charging cycle and how much to replace.

They'll just tax the poor for something else, probably for the fresher air

I don't own a car but I am in an electric car club and rent a Renault Zoe by the hour relatively often. Does a decent job for journeys of under 50 miles, wouldn't fancy doing long distance on it as it does take a while to charge. For the occasional jaunt around town though it does the job perfectly.

the current electricity grid will collapse if we all go electric

which we won't, not until range and/or ease of charge away from home improves. though it's an option for shorter distance commuting.

could hydrogen be a better solution?

Either way they will get that revenue somehow also who will control the electricity prices as that's an obvious way they can screw the consumer once they've bought their electric car.

Then there’s the geo political fallout. How will those major oil producing countries replace that income.

Just how will Saudi Arabia et al be able to afford all that shiny, new military hardware?

Oil prices will plummet near the time as desperation creeps in😀

Good, about time Diesel prices came down !!.

Won't be for a few years😂

I can wait, think my car will see me out.   :D :D

Neighbour has a Kia Nero and loves it - But, he works for an electric company and got a good offer. Does something like 280 miles on a full charge. Neighbour had charging point installed, which cost around £1k

I want something smaller for day to day use - shopping, short journeys and easy parking in town rather than a larger family car. Surprised they haven't gone down the route of replaceable batteries that are 'replaced' at 'fuel stations'. But maybe they will later.

Don't think the technology is quite there yet, so will wait a couple of years. Think we are probably in the Betamax stage at the moment - will wait for VHS to come along!

Good analogy 😀

 :eek: :eek:

It may not be this year, or next or even 3 to 5, but the tipping point is close.  Once it happens the advances will be rapid.  Much like combustion engines, the rise of internet shopping, mobile phones etc.  Once enough investment amd interest makes it unstoppable then the capital will flow into the innovation.

Betamax was technically superior to VHS

#justSaying

An electric car with a list price of around £15,000 and a real world range of around 200 miles will sell like hot cakes

How do prices compare at the moment

Leaving aside the Renault Twizy and the Smart offerings, I think you are looking at £20k odd for something like a fiat 500. Something more substantial will set you back over £25,000.

Of course, the vast majority of vehicles are leased or on pcp arrangements these days.

still a bit pricey but sure to come down over the next few years.

I have a 330e. Brilliant and fast. Around town use electric, petrol on longer journeys. Range isn’t brilliant but does the job. Costs about 15p to fully charge in about 2 hours on Octopus Go tariff.

Plug in hybrids offer that security.

Where did you purchase from and what sort of price are they?

I know. But, VHS ended up being cheaper, better marketed, more readily available and more popular.

Mine is 3 and a half years old, 44k on the clock. Has every option ticked. i paid £16500 for it. i have had it 6 months. Not dropped in value. You'd think that the car would be heavy with the extra battery, but it doesn't. it's certainly quick and nimble.

Plug in hybrids are great, just don't expect the range. On out of town journeys, i whack it into save which then also charges the battery for when i hit a town. i average around high 40s mpg, for a car which has 250bhp is pretty good!

I average late 30s in my 271bhp 100% petrol motor  ;)

Yep - VHS were better at marketing

Listened to something on Radio 4 a few months back where they had people of from a fair few of the big car manufacturers.

Whatever the man in the street may think, the ICE is frankly dead and everything is being directed towards the development of hybrid and electric, they are also looking and working towards things almost like these urban bike hire schemes but for cars, add into the equation automation for HGV's etc personal transportation is going to look very different in 5-10 years time.

Planning permissions with any  parking involved now need extensive charging facilities as a Condition of consent.

My lease comes up next Summer, i need a car that can cover 250 miles before a recharge though...

If i dont get electric, im sure that the next lease will be my last with petrol!

and licensing. Sony being Sony screwed up and tried to close shop.

VHS did have the advantage of being able to store longer on it.

I'm sure Sony could have added LP if they didn't cock up.

Cheers Sippo, did you buy in Swindon and is the insurance reasonable?

I have looked at full electric but due to several limitations I won't be taking the plunge yet.

I use on street parking at night so I can't plug in a car from the house so would rely on other charging places, the range is still way too low, I have mates with a Posche Panamera, a BMW Xdrive30E and a Hyundai Ioniq and the Ioniq has easily the best range of around 300 miles, the other 2 struggle to do 200 miles on a single charge.

I drive an Ioniq self charge hybrid and for me thats the best of both worlds as its electric at any speed under 30mph and uses the electric motor at cruising speeds on motorways.

I can easily do 75mpg at a steady 70 on a motorway but on back roads at speeds under 60 and on flat ground it easily breaks 99mpg (the highest the computer will show) and that is over 25 to 30 miles average of mostly flat - stop start back roads.

Tempted by a mild hybrid next time but their electric range and usable speed on electric is way shorted than a true hybrid.

Going to change it at the next registration change in March so have to decide by November as lead times are about 16 weeks on a lot of brand new cars.

I drove in a Tesla the other week - fucking hell the acceleration was (excuse the pun) electric.  Never driven anything like it.  It's my mates kmtotor and it has shaken off a lot of my scpeticism - he easily gets over 300 miles to a charge, drives like a dream etc etc.

That said, I still think (in my thick, Luddite/late adpoter way) that we are still very much in the early stages of development of electric motors.  The way tech acclerates (sorry, pun again) makes me think that in 5-10 years time we will see huge developments in the tech and the price to make it a safer investment.  For now I am thinking run my current motor into the ground (which given current mileage will be 8-10 years) and then go electric.  I think the Govt will have to offer incentives, like they will with these new fangled air heater things to replace gas boilers, as typical person won't be able to just overnight shell out and replace such an asset.

But then again, I know fuck all. 

That's some mileage on a single charge and also decent return on mpg.

The range they can do is already getting close to combustion engine cars of similar design to the electric comparator.  Clearly the investment needed is in Battery design and charging options, both of which appear to be taking off rapidly now.  The early adopters will be pushing their cars out into the second hand market in 5 years or so, at which point I think that will be the final push over the cliff it needs.

What Electric opens up is the design elements of the car - no longer needing to carry the weight of the engine and everything else that helps the thing move.  Even a heavy battery is nowhere near close, especially after a few more years of development (just look at the mobile phone and laptop surge and hw battery development pushed that on).  Cars will probably become much more fun to be a passenger in, even if automated driving is a bit further down the line.

Bought from an Indy in Bridgewater. Found on autotrader. Insurance is obviously dependent on personal circumstances. Battery is covered by bmw for 60k miles.

Trouble for me is I'm a petrolhead. Electric cars may go like shit off a shovel off the line, but it's just boring to me. Point and go. Very linear. Tesla, there are none that I think are a good looking car. No wow factor for me.

I understand that diesel and petrol in cars are major factor in climate change. What I don't understand is when all cars are electric:
How many chargers will be required across the country? What cost to charge your car with energy prices rising?
What is the time to fully charge your car? We already moan at fuel queues but queueing to charge your car will take considerably longer
What happens to the batteries once the life cycle is complete?
Where will the revenue come from, road tax & fuel duty?
But most importantly we can't harvest enough natural resources to power all our homes let alone cars so we will have to burn fossil fuel to make the electric. What is the difference?

As a motorcyclist, I am a fan of the ICE. The Yamaha crossplane crank engine from the R1/MT10 is perhaps my favourite. However, I have no problem with the fact that things change and we have to move on.

Even if we were buring the majority of fossil fuels in our power stations (we're not - https://gridwatch.co.uk/), large modern power plants are much more efficient (45%ish) than even the best petrol engine (30% max).

Could they not make electric cars with solar light cell body panels?  :)

OK cheers.
I'm a lazy cunt and don't bother doing that much research, I want the facts given to me to allow me to make an informed choice.
Can we sustain all electric cars across the whole country?

I've done self-charging hybrid (Niro) and plug-in hybrid (225xe) but have gone back to standard ICE.

Mild-hybrid is just a marketing con, it's just a slightly modified version of stop/start to please the bureaucrats.

I might go full electric next time I change cars, but would still keep an ICE one too until the infrastructure is in place.

Thing is, to pump oil out of the ground, tanker it to a refinery, refine it, then pipe it to where its needed already uses a shitload of electricity which will obviously become available as surplus capacity on the grid once we stop doing the above. There is going to be a massive rebalancing of supply/demand.

Lots already have solar cell charginging panels on the roof, the charge though is barely enough to power air con etc nowhere near the charging power to do a full battery.

Won't be all electric for me until the infrastructure is better and charging intervals at least double as I often drive from South Somerset/Devon to Dundee/Perth a drive of 530 each way and at the moment thats a 3 charge run wheras in the Hybrid I can do it for £35 in fuel each way(at current prices) and dont have to worry about recharging the battery as it does it while driving.

On a similar theme. I was watching a report on replacing gas boilers with heat pumps. Cost is about £12k with a £5k grant. Energy bills about the same. But the heat pump needs electricity to run.

The only way to provide enough electricity to get away from fossil fuels is nuclear - at the moment, anyway.

I’ve got a photo voltaic system on the roof which provides hot water and puts excess solar electricity back into the grid which effectively means I don’t have to pay for electricity all year. In a hot part of the world like this I can’t understand why this isn’t more common.

Burn plastic in huge generators and pump the carbon created into the bedrock. Two problems solved.

Yeah on BBC news this morning, the government put tax up on electric, trying to make us use electric cars, everything is electric these days so you HAVE to use more so the government gets loads of extra income from the tax on it. Win win for the government.

We do not have the infostructure to cope with our current (pun intended) needs let alone with even more drain from things like these new boilers etc, yes they create some but its a trickle with our lack of solar activity!

I’ve worked in Nuclear for a lot of my career including on HPC and we urgently need a new fleet, hopefully SMR’s take off and make them a lot quicker to build. A lot of the AGR’s are shutting down now and in a few years will only be Sizewell B left with HPC hopefully commissioned around the turn of the decade.

Says it all about these extinction rebellion and insulate Britain muppets that a lot of them are the same great unwashed that protest against nuclear. Clearly don’t have a clue about anything and just contradict themselves protesting against a zero emissions solution whilst protesting at other times to reduce CO2 emissions.

Creating even more of a hole the ozone system through the burning process? no i dont think that would work. Totally counter productive for any possible gains.

Absolutely.

Got to have something to offset the tax revenue reductions they are going be hit by via fuel duty.

FWIW its about time the airlines started paying their way.

You missed my bit about pumping carbon into the bedrock

I didn't, carbon is not the only byproduct produced by burning the plastics, there are many more that are justa s damaging to the atmosphere that cannot be reused.

Just look at how quickly Diesel became popular, and that was a fuel source that was very negatively perceived.  There are plenty of debates to be had on the credentials of electric but I don't think they are going to stop the revolution.  How many debates do people have about the environmental impact of mobile phone production, waste and lithium battery production and disposal?

Electric cars are destined to take off now.  The vast majority of car journeys are short.  Thus, you only really need two things to be in place from here.  Vastly improved at home and car park charging options and the seen cost to fuel the car.

Charging options will be critical and if the car parks used at work, while shopping etc. can be developed, then most people will never have to visit the equivalent of a petrol station.  In time technology will advance on the power source for those charging stations, including wireless like phones moved to.  Imagine a parent using the car for dropping the kids and running around town, their direct spend on fuel will vanish (in their mind even if not when added up across all the ways they really pay for that).  Quick charging infrastructure will develop as well and support long distance.

I just see this as the moment where the industry is taking the plunge and it look ripe to me on the consumer side as well.  Enough people want it, enough cars will start coming and then it will snowball.  It's unstoppable.  Just like the good old GWR had to give up its gauge.

Have a friend in the States who won't drive anything but electric now.
Range anxiety is still an issue but they've got around that by planning longer journeys, leisure in particular, around stopovers for charging.
Maybe more of an issue here with people heading from the South up to The Lakes & being reluctant to lose a day sampling the delights of the Black Country for example.
Just a case of adapting with a new mindset & planning trips differently.
Electric cars in themselves shouldn't be a barrier to mobility.

Got an Audi e-tron sportback. Had it a year now and I’d happily trade up for another EV next time.

As a business owner I was able to write-off the whole value of the car in the first year which offset my entire tax bill and I only pay 1% BIK this year. There’s also no BIK tax on fuel either.

With the right investment, that journey to the Lakes (which is once or twice a year for most people, if at all) can easily be handled with a 30-45 minute stop off for recharging mid way.  It won't be that type of situation that will prevent or kick start the switch though.  Car parks are the key - I know someone at work who hasn't even had to use an alternative charging location than work - it just recharges everyday while at work.

Most car purchases in this country are second hand as opposed to brand new. I’m not sure what the lifespan of say a 5 year old EV batteries would be. From a personal point of view I tend to buy ex fleet cars which are usually 3-5 years old, keep for a couple of years then replace again. The one good thing with gaining popularity in EV’s is that you can get some cracking bargains on ex fleet diesel/petrol models.

the battery degradation conversation came up with a guy who has one at work .

this suprised me

"Real-world data showed that Tesla battery degradation was less than 10% after over 160,000 miles (257,500 km):"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/amp/

Where do you buy ex fleet cars

Any car garage selling 3-5 year old cars will be ex fleet as they tend to buy from auctions, which you can do yourself and save a small fortune.

 Cheers :clap:

My current car was a 6 months old and had previous been used as a ‘mobility car’ like helping to take people shopping and what not.

Had already depreciated in value as it wasn’t new but had 77 miles on the clock when I took it for a test drive and bought it.

Probably the closest to buying new without being new. Got a steal there I think…

for me, it's about re-charge time, until that's shorter for Li-ion then I can't manage with it, maybe the chemistry needs to change????

I would love to go electric but i want decent performance (hot hatch comparable) and range and for it not to be an SUfuckingV. I have looked at the Hyundai Ioniq 5 but at £40k it is almost twice the price of the infinitely more fun 3 cylinder Fiesta ST

That’s the other thing, some of the prices of new EV’s are plain bonkers. Your average Vauxhall Corsa is around £15K but the EV version is a whopping £30K! £30k for a Corsa! I spend £50 max a month on diesel, I’d have to keep it 25 years to save £15K on diesel.

I'd rather get a newer pushbike.

My sister and brother in law got an VW ID.3 and are very happy with it. He has always had quick cars so for him to be impressed is a positive sign.

I would suggest of more relevance is what are the corresponding lease or PCP costs as that seems to account for the vast majority of new 'purchases' these days.

I've noted before, when we picked up our most recent 2nd hand Skoda from the dealer they were just lining up for the in dealership launch of their latest electric model, we were given an exclusive look (I don't think we were as excited as he hoped) and the guy commented that he was absolutely amazed how many pre-orders they had received at £40k a pop.

ICE is on its way out and EV is coming in whether we middle aged blokes like it or not.

Lease would be a non-starter for me. I have done one PCP in my lifetime and ended up paying the final balloon payment so my default is some form of eventual ownership. There is no justification to spend £30-40k on an electric car. I need the prices to come down closer to ICE before I could consider.

it's going to take a while for pure EV to dominate for the very reason of cost and infrastructure.

I guess when hybrid is the minimum you can buy new, it'll eventually filter down and costs will fall

Diesel it is then for the foreseeable future!

In September, EV and Hybrid accounted for 1 in 5 of new cars registered in the UK.  Diesel was 1 in 20.  Sales have started to hit the same number in a month that were sold in the entirety of 2019.  It's a matter of time now.

The second hand market is the problem as the majority of car owners can't afford brand new and don't want to lease a car.

Must be different down south then.

If I wanted to buy a decent second hand car maybe paying up to £10000 cash my only option would be for a petrol or diesel car as the equivalent in electric dosen't exist and that's down South or up North! Not everyone has a spare £30000+ or wants to lease a vehicle for 3-5 years.

There's a ton of 2nd hand EVs on autotrader for less than £10k

I suspect that sales data will show that the majority of car buyers are more than happy to buy on a PCP or lease a vehicle.  Soon, the notion of buying outright will be an alien concept.

Fair point I haven't looked on there only the big dealerships.

It already is. Round here (And its far from a wealthy part of Cumbria) when we got rid of our Polo earlier this year (sold to a young lad doing his test, written off by the new owner 4 weeks after we sold it!) it was on an 08 plate and I reckon it was probably in the bottom 5% of vehicle ages in the village, rare you see anything older than a 16 plate and I would be amazed if any of them were buying cash!

What do you drive now

By a ton, you mean 1 with a range of over a 150 miles. A 2016 Nissan leaf with 120k miles on the clock

there are a few hybrids.

mostly old high miller Prius

A grand total of 76 according to the app.

For comparison, you can get a fully loaded 2016 diesel Focus 90,000 miles for £4,500.

Just ordered a Nissan Leaf through my works salary sacrifice thing, includes breakdown cover, servicing, tyres and insurance
230 quid a month no BiK tax.
Range anxiety not huge problem day to day as my commute is only 20 (round trip) and  supposedly real world range of 160 miles on full charge but from reading ev forums in bad conditions I may struggle to get to SN1 and back to Worcester, so if any has a long extension lead that will reach from their house to the cricket club that would be helpful  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

I noticed some new charging points along Broad Street and thought that would be handy for match day parking for EV owners.