Thetownend.com

Would be good to see a few Afghanistan flags home and away over the next few weeks. Easy to purchase on Amazon.

It’s ok buying flags but they won’t be seen on TV because of the telly ban

It's a nice idea to show solidarity - and it doesn't matter much if the TV shows it or not. I guess it would be more useful for everyone to get behind/put pressure on local authorities to offer accommodation to refugees......

Keep politics out of football. Period.

:D

This

It’s always sad when issues of basic humanity and compassion to fellow people is mixed up with the murky and cynical world of politics. Fellow humans in dire need of help are not a political issue (in my perfect world of course).

I don't think a few flags in a football ground which are unlikely to be seen on the TV will make the slightest bit of difference.

Very good.

Clothing donations is what's needed and would make a massive difference

Absolutely dreadful and pointless idea

Reminds me of the GW Reds floating the idea a few years back of trying to do something to show support for Syrian refugees when we were away to Barnsley. It turned out to be a fucking tea towel with few words scribbled on it

It’s got nothing to do with football

Yeah, it's totally pointless. Some people just love to show off how great of a person they are even if the gesture makes absolutely zero difference. Just donate some clothes or something.

This

People go to football to escape the shit going on in the real world.

Good work that man..

don't do it, did GW Reds experience teach you nothing

This for me...and sport in general.

If people feel passionately about this, then offer up your spare room. Empty gestures achieve nothing other than making yourself feel a bit smug and worthier than others.

Not passing comment on this subject in particular, but this argument in general is daft. If that was the case then most people wouldn’t be able to show support or like anything

Most people have a spare room, I’d imagine.

Vast majority want somebody else to do something.

It's a bit of a leap from holding a flag to giving up a spare room.

You mean like mealy mouthed, pious celebrities? I’m still waiting for those cunts who said they’d move to La La land after the EU referendum. Cunts are still here.

 :D

There are 20 Afghan refugees in the Jurys inn. Arrived with a bag each. Stepson does the security there as a covid quarantine site.
Arrived wednesday.

Couldn't agree more. I don't go to events, pay hard earned money to get preached at. Usually by people wealthier and more privileged than me.

It’s a tough one but I’m a firm believer to keep politics out of football. I can’t imagine what these people have been through and my heart goes out to them. However, I don’t go to Swindon to think about the war in Afghanistan, China’s persecution of the Uyghurs or refugees from South Sudan. It’s not appropriate to put someone’s suffering above another but I can choose to be involved and donate away from football.

I really hate what is going in Afghanistan, it’s horrible on so many levels. But, as others have intimated, football is mine/others place to escape from the horrible shit that happens in life, not a place to refocus on it. I don’t care how selfish it is, I want to be insulated from horrible shit when I’m watching im watching football. For that reason I’m against

If football can be used to support a cause then why not. I have no particular aversion to that.

Are other countries helping Afghanistan people? I know Canada have but what about other European countries?

What about any country in the World? Lots of critics of the west but the west always jumps in to help.

well, we did create the latest mess

Interested to see the data supporting your conclusions

Fuck me sideways... it costs nothing to not be a cunt, some people on here really should try it once in a while. We helped fuck their country over, the very least we can do is offer some help. You want politics kept out of football, cool, no poppies for you I take it? No minutes silence before the game before armistice day?

Say it louder sir.

Well said.  :clap:

How exactly did we "fuck their country over"? It's a shit show now for but that's down to leaving. How have the past 20 years been compared to Taliban rule back in the 90s?
Perhaps you should spare a thought for the British troops who didn't come home.

Essentially America "created" the Taliban.

Anyway, I'm certain JayBox will be working on an Afghanistan themed tifo as we speak.

Which will cause considerable uproar (no Jed included), only for it to be the size of a postage stamp  :pint:

Flags at football will never directly change anything, but normalising a culture of solidarity and caring will. Eventually.

This.
I don't particularly see the point of the flags, but 'keep politics out of football'? Explain to me exactly how you do that. Politics is about life. That's why we all get so angry about it.

The problem with banners at football - nonfootball related - purports that everybody at a game agrees with whatever sentiment is on that banner. Agreement by association. It fucking stinks.

If people want to support a ‘cause’ that’s fine. March through the streets, go to Downing Street, whatever.

I fucking hate these do-gooders that actually DO absolutely fuck all.

I don't buy the 'keep it out of football' excuse. It's utter bollocks. Fans should be free to express themselves.

What difference does it make to you if somebody else has a flag? How does it affect your enjoyment of the game because other people want to show support? Are you being forced to care about it yourself? Are they taking money out of your pocket? Is there any discernible effect on your life whatsoever?

If you're offended because other people want to wave a flag then good - be offended. I hope it ruins your fucking day.

Why get het up about flags and possibly being 'guilty by association'
(due to that piece of cloth possibly being in your vacinity) if you do not attend matches?

And that's not directed specifically at anybody here but in general.

I’m not getting het up in the least. What pisses me off are people who say they support some cause or another but actually do absolutely fuck all to help other than some wanky banner.

Take the banner on a march for all to see, go help out at a charity. Do something that might make a jot of difference.

It’s not the banner per se, it’s the empty gesture behind it. Back it up with some action.

Why?

WTF is it doing to harm you or anybody else? It's an entirely harmless gesture and a ridiculous thing to get pissed off over.

It's all a bit Jaybox.

The problem with Jaybox is that he was a sanctimonious twat about it. I was quite supportive of him until he started acting like a massive bellend.

We support black lives at sporting events so what's wrong with showing some warmth for the millions of Afghans now going through hell.

Exactly so.

But not everyone appreciates that gesture.

It's down to your own beliefs

That's sad

Afghanistan has been "fucked" for centuries, but it is fair to say the West's involvement in Afghanistan's recent history has helped create the current situation.

Regardless of whether it's Britain's "fault" or not, it just the decent human thing to do by offering refuge to those who seek it.

Nazi's?

I'm hearing reports that both Clem and Xaver/Zavier/Zaver/Quaver/Xavier will be both be parachuting into the CG next week, both dressed as the "Black Magic" man to make a special delivery of an "Afghanistan" matchday ball.

Closely followed by a trio of jets flying over the CG with black, red and green trails spilling out, respectfully.

Well it's better than delivering it by an RC VW ID.4

it is. but if you read the adver comments section you'll see there are many that don't believe we should be doing this before sorting out our own

I mean I can sort of understand the sentiment in a way. But it totally excluded that if our government really wanted to they could do both. it also overlooks the refugees aren't benefit tourist, they are legally and legitimately scared for their lives.

your post is totally idiotic and unrealistic.

it's the milky tray man


let's hope not actually. we we'd get a month of tweets at 40 tweets an hour about it from the official account

A bit tasteless to say the least

I quite like the hazelnut swirl

Not keen on the coffee cream!

If you really think a few Afghan flags makes any sort of difference at all, then cool. But as far as I can see, it's an absolute waste of money and about as useful as facebook thoughts and prayers.

Just donate the money.

The issue here as far as I was concerned was that we should, apparently, "keep (certain) politics out of football"

Comparing it to poppies is a pretty bad faith argument though, isn't it?

A giant portion of the crowd in November, the overwhelming majority, will have had family either current generations or previous that have served in wars for The British Army and a giant portion linked to someone who has died too. It's relevant to the people attending

Is wearing a poppy anymore political than attending a funeral, anyway? It's not really a political statement is it?

What is happening in Afghanistan absolutely makes me sick to my stomach, but so does a lot of stuff. The world is fucked. You could pick a new and different every week to virtue signal and none will make any difference or mean anything directly to anyone attending.

Unless you can make a good argument for doing it other than "showing solidarity" to people who will never see it, it's just a spot of sanctimonious showing off on a Saturday afternoon.

Why don't you go the whole hog and make a tapestry or quilt, you could stick the Yemeni, Palestinian and Somali flags on too.
Have you forgotten how the Taliban started? Nowt to do with the west.

My understanding is that many consider that it is.

Many causes are supported in football.  Again, it occurs to me that those who say politics must be kept out of football really mean those issues that they are keen to ignore.

Whether we are, in reality, dealing with virtue signallers, doesn't get me bent out of shape.

My understanding is that many do not understand the Poppy wearing and the charitable causes the money raised goes to help.

You are trying to be deliberately controversial as always. The poppy and Remembrance Day in general is about remembering those who served the country and died during various conflicts. Despite FIFA’s opinion it’s not political, the poppy is just the symbol, there’s even a National Day for it FFS so it’s completely incomparable. Many clubs had their squads wiped out during various wars so it’s also totally relevant that football pays its respects.

No. The question was asked. I merely answered it. 

Just what suits your criteria.

For what it's worth I agree with JBZ

Obstreperous.

I guess my initial thought was that if the EPL and EFL players/clubs/fans provided some form of awareness about the issue it might put pressure on UK govt. to sort out the disgraceful humanitarian crisis that’s emerging. I also tweeted a few high profile EPL players asking if they’d make a gesture but obs no response. ‘Virtue signalling’…… ‘politics has no part in football…’ fair enough as opinions.

You think the deployment of British troops over the last 200 years isn’t political? Ask the Irish or countless other countries who have been subjected to British imperialism.

Which is a political statement. Wars are political, therefore remembering the dead is by definition political whether you agree with it or not is beside the point?

Tony Blair took us into this shit show. The initial bombing of Boro Boro was in deed a noble and correct thing to do but that operation was over in 12 months.
 Then arch globalist and remainer Blair added a little mission creep, trying to civilise a third world nation was never going to work. He is a gammon if ever their was one. All this of course in the shadow of Obama, another well known globalist and remainer but not a gammon.
We should never allow globalists liberals like Blair and Cameron (Libya) to dabble in British foreign affairs. It always ends badly for us and for the innocent natives involved.

This 100% + conveniently forgotten by the left and liberal snowflakes.

No it isn't. It's why Labour were ousted in 2010 with the left and liberal snowflakes as you call them deserting the party and voting for, in particular the liberal party that year. It was the left of the party who were most vocally against military action in fact.

It should also be noted that the Tories backed Blair's actions at every stage when discussed in parliament.

No it isn't. That’s nice and comforting. I’m sure all those out there in the cluster fuck shit storm will take comfort in that.

That's why I said the current situation is because of the West's involvement in Afghanistan's recent history i.e. since 2001.

Interesting that both Russia & China are ‘poised’ to recognise the Taliban given both dictatorships treatment and attitude towards Muslims particularly Chechen and Uyghur Muslims. As I understand it any religion that does not worship communism.

They went in to oust the Taliban and try to rebuild Afghanistan, which they did for 20 years. Do you think that wasn't worth trying?

We don’t actually need to do anything, the government have already said they would take in 20,000 afghan refugees, home them, cloth them etc. We should be grateful that we live in a country that can and does support refugees.

Amazing how we can find money to find operations such as this, don't get me wrong, I have every sympathy for all those involved, but when we are continually being told we can't afford to fund our police/schools/NHS etc. makes you think are other countries helping with the same numbers we are ??.

Are they fuck. 2% of GDP towards NATO, countries as ‘well off’ as us or better off happily let those suckers the British support and fund the only viable international police force with money, personnel and the ultimate sacrifice, lives.

Are you seriously suggesting the left upsticks and voted Wiberal?
There is literally nowhere for them to go but the Labour Party. They might do all they can to stop Labour looking credible but leggit,no.
The reason Labour failed, Milliband was total crap. He couldn't eat a bacon sandwich without showing his disgust. A total disconnect with its core, by that I mean the Working class vote not the vegan, champagne sipping, Nana Munchety types who live within the M25 and university towns

What the future fuck are you rabbiting on about ???.

Gordon Brown was Labour leader in 2010.

Is it really amazing? Look how much we have spunked on contracts for people not deserving of them. This will be a drop in the ocean

Apart from you're missing the point. Remembering dead soldiers is not the same as supporting British Imperialism or the wars themselves.

Give me an example of British imperialism in the last 100 years?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Leather

Wow. Whata mistakea to makea.
From inscrutable pain eating a bacon sarnie to calling a faithful supporter a bigot.
From one working class unelectable cock sucker to another working class unelectable cock sucker. You could add Starmer in their as well. Walks into a pub and shouts who wants a fight?

In their what?

Oh great, Valid Pint or whatever his name was is back.

Why besides India/Pakistan, Iraq (from around 1920), Afghanistan (from around 1920) Somailand and other African parts of the Empire, Ireland, the Falkland Islands and many many others that I'm sure you could find if you googled it?

All 100 years ago. Anything more recent. The Falklands wasn't imperialism, perhaps you could google the meaning.

The only reassurance I get from reading this discussion is that 80% is bollocks by definition.

Indian independence was in 1947 which, if my maths is correct, was less than 100 years ago.

Anyway what was your point? Poppies aren't political?

Mansfield have had a good start, and so have we. And their striker has only scored one more than Payne has.

1-1

Wrong thread ?? 😁😁🙄

Ooops

To be fair it was as relevant as the last 3 pages of shit

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

7 pages actually.

With respect the only thing this will achieve is giving more money to Amazon 🤷‍♂️ You’d be better off just donating the money you would have spent on said flag to a refugee charity.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Fingers crossed the fact I have posted will end this thread, I tend to have that effect. This thread if nothing else has upheld to 80/25 tradition for which we should be proud :D

Let's get back to being happy about the fact we have got a team to be excited about, a club that seems to be doing everything right in incredibly challenging circumstances and a future that looks brighter than a bright thing (when a month ago it was darker than Valid Pints best posts).

As was said earlier, do what you can/want to for the poor bastards in Afghanistan, pontificating and arguing on here helps no fucker other than those who enjoy pissing people off.

If my previous form is anything to go by, here endeth the thread.

Not long now before we start seeing or hearing of the beheadings of those innocents who have been trapped. Be it Afghan, British or American. The world is a scary place.

I was hoping we’d see a different Taliban this time, perhaps naively, but now they are reportedly telling women to stay indoors (supposedly for their own safety, yeah ok) and are talking of stopping people from going to the airport I think my hope may have been in vain and you could be right. Still, there’s a danger of overthinking and you never know, they could still come relatively good

There are enough reports of Taliban hunting for 'collaborators of the west' to think their promise of no reprisals may be a thinly veiled attempt to appease the west.

The realistic me does not doubt it. The idealistic me hopes they prove me wrong, got everybody’s sake

Sir William Patey studio guest on Newsnight. Kirsty is not grilling him on any STFC matters sadly.

Bombs and gunfire have gone off at Kabul airport reports are emerging. 11 dead so far.

Ah, the 'deal'.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-58311135

Casualties include 4 U.S Marines. RIP this will only get worse. Great work sleepy Joe.

blimey :(

they* made the somewhat unusual step to release they were sure this was going to happen to the MSM yesterday/today.

* UK govt

Looks like Joe fucked up. The yanks are developing a bit of a habit of abandoning their allies.

Biden is a face. Wouldn’t surprise me if he is a spokesperson for Harris or Obama.

Put some money on Trump to get back in. Massive own goal by Biden?

It is just a vicious circle now not being helped by the UK and the US both being run by absolute shit shows the last however many years

Oh Trump is far from done and will most certainly run again. I think he will succeed as well. Biden is an embarrassment to the States and speaking to friends I’ve met in Texas - the confidence in him simply does not exist. I am not overtly a fan of Boris or Kier but I would rather one of them than sleepy’ ol Joe who is running the States into the ground.

Problem is we will just be back to square 1. Politics needs a complete overhaul not 2 old fuckers fucking everything up

I wonder if there was ever a time the vast majority firmly supported whoever was in power in the UK (and US). Seems like whoever gets the job is instantly slaughtered throughout their time in office especially by people that voted them in.

Anyway, I hope we look after our own and leave the Americans to it over there. Biden has made it clear he's not bothered about any other nation but his own, and even then some Americans will end up stranded.

Sleepy Joe walking away without answering any questions will be a poignant image throughout and after his tenure. Nothing presidential about that man, and is far more dangerous for the world than Trump was.

I personally had more belief in Trump than I do in Biden.

Amen. Trump made mistakes, I personally believe he was screwed out and I fully anticipate the heat other TEF posters will throw my way. Funny how Trump is blocked by all of Social Media and not given a voice. The States is a mess. Dark agendas are influencing things and certainly at force. This world is a scary place and none of us can change things.

That's like asking who you would prefer to babysit out of Gary Glitter or Jimmy Savile.

In your mind with your equal opinion.

Agree with you. CNN were a complete joke in the build up to the election. It was ridiculous.

Trump certainly wouldn't have bowed down to any Taliban deadline. They'd have known full well the place would have been carpet bombed had they tried any of the shenanigans currently taking place in Afghanistan.

Whether Trump made America great again is very debatable but Biden is certainly making them soft. China and Russia will be loving it.

I'm sorry but Trump was an orange joke. I can't be arsed to go through it but he lied over 30,000 times in his four years.

If that's what you want from the most important leader in the western world, you are out of your mind.

Whether Trump made America great again is not remotely debatable. He didn't!

Do you miss the even-handidness of Fox as well?

Stopped getting Fox coverage years ago so no idea.

Trump was an idiot but this alternative is more dangerous. Biden will leave America in a far worse state in my opinion .

But you continued to monitor CNN?

I have CNN. I haven't got Fox.

I also don't know a great deal about American politics or care either way about the Republican or Democratic parties.

As individuals Biden will 100% prove to be more of a car crash than Trump was.

Unequivocal but, I suggest wrong.

As shrivvy says politics needs a reboot. When you have a choice between Biden and trump, it's shit. When you have a choice between Johnson and Corbyn, it's shit. For nations of 333m and 68m, you'd think we could come up with someone with some real substance and depth.

Very much this.

And your opinion is as valid as myself Super Hans…..

As much as Biden has massively cocked this up, you can’t seriously believe Trump was merely screwed over? The guy is a maniac. As others have suggested though, it’s a damning indictment that those two are the only two options when it comes to the leader of the free world.

Just caught the end of Biden’s presser. It was painful listening

If discussions were more about showing solidarity to those worst off, in all walks of life. What we can do to make everybodys lives better in the future, instead of a why do I care its not my problem attitude. Then we wouldn't all be cunts.

Try telling that to the brainwashed terrorist twats. Seem to just want to destroy. What a shit legacy.

And your man Trump is largely responsible.

The fucking irony of your post.

Not sure how you can be of the opinion that trump wouldn’t have bowed down to a taliban deadline when the agreement to withdraw was signed by the trump administration

Bidens followed through with what the previous administration had agreed, and with what was generally a popular decision domestically.

This is it, I am intrigued to know what Biden (a guy who was extremely well known for being very anti US boots on ground overseas when he was VP) was supposed to do with a treaty signed by the Trump administration, pretty universally popular in the US and well under way to delivery before he came to power. If he had refused to follow it through the Trump fan boys would be as excited as they are now.

Its not like the status quo could have been maintained/returned to once the Trump administration had signed and set in motion, the treaty had already led to the release of shit loads of jailed Taliban hard-line fighters (at the direct request of the US government, without even consulting the afghan govt) including those in Pakistan and also gave them a timetable to get their ducks in a row knowing they would get their chance at x date to take back control.

Its undoubtedly a tragic shit show which will change the world for years to come*, but to try and hang it all on Biden is up there with Labour claiming the boom of 2000/2008 was down to them and the Tories claiming the subsequent financial crash was down to Labour in the rewriting history to suit your political echo chamber stakes.

* From a UK point of view exposing us as a pretty small player on the world stage (FWIW, similarly not sure what our govt could do once the US went there was little we could do as our armed forces have been cut to the bone so we don't have the capacity to do much without US support and logistics) with few friends and little influence.

I think the main criticism is the handling of the withdrawal, not the withdrawal itself.

But, yeah. 'Trump wouldn't bow down' is a bit of an odd comment considering it was his administration that signed the withdrawal.

And 'the place would have been carpet-bombed?' Because that works? Carpet bombing and whatnot is part of the reason we're in this mess in the first place.

I don't disagree however again, not sure what could have been done differently. Trump committed to a withdrawal date of May, which for reasons I don't know Biden changed to end August, Ok Biden appears to have delayed the inevitable for 3 months, but even if he had gone in May that still gave the Taliban 12+ months post signing to prepare for takeover whilst the US were committed to releasing all their men to provide 'confidence'. It was not just a case of keeping the US troops in, it was a case of sending shit loads of them back again!

This guy who is a former US Ambassador to Nato probably knows better than 95% of people commenting, and even dare I say some people on a two bit football forum.  ;)

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1430296057083318273.html

Not leaving evacuations to the last minute?


I don't see what this has to do with what's going on at the airport. (Which is where I am being critical)

Now listen here you little shit...!

Way beyond my pay grade as I have not taken a great deal of interest until it all kicked off the other week. Have the US left it to the last minute, I see France and Germany have been evacuating since May, not sure what the US have been doing?

Yes, they have.

You only need to look at the airport to see they've left it late. They've known for months that this was coming; they - literally - signed a deal with the Taliban with a deadline. Yet their own deadline has somehow taken them by surprise.

I dare say the yanks have a hell of a lot more stuff to shift than anyone else. They'd also have to leave a lot in place to provide cover for all the other countries with less on the ground whilst they are packing up.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/22/biden-afghanistan-evacuation-us-has-long-way-to-go.html

And here is making *pathetic* excuses for it.

Yes, Joe, it would have been difficult regardless. But it would have been a bit easier if everybody wasn't trying to leave at once, dontcha think?

Would have done it a totally different way which didn't include leaving 85 billion dollars worth of equipment behind or trying to squeeze hundreds of thousands of people out of Afghanistan in a few days.

Biden has no issue undoing anything else Trump put in place previously - this mess on his watch.

Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it would have nothing to do with 'bowing down to the Taliban'.

Of course it does.

You either make it clear what will happen if you or other factions try an attack like we saw yesterday. Or you promise revenge after the event like Biden did last night.

America and allies are now on the backfoot because the withdrawal has been fucked up massively.

The attack yesterday wasn't done by the Taliban.

I know this.

Then what on earth are you babbling on about? Why even mention it?

Meh.

I'm not getting dragged in. I've work to do.

I said the Taliban and other factions.

ISIS post on Twitter ffs. Not hard to get the message to them as well.

You accused Biden of bowing down to the Taliban because of an attack that was not down to the Taliban.

You're waffling.

But I am really done now. I've more important things to do.

I didn't but enjoy your work.