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Anybody know what type of player he is? Noticed he gets a few for the Under 18's. Just wondering if he may be worth a run at some point. Can't be any worse than what we've got & would be game time with a view to next season in mind, presuming he gets offered a pro contract & wants to stay.

He would get ruined in this team

Pretty much. He’s desperate for game time, but he’s better off out of it at the minute with that pigeon in charge.

Didn't he play a game or two earlier in the season?

He did yeah off the bench.

More than likely. But could end up thriving. You never know until you try I suppose.

Anyway, what type of player is he? Targetman, poacher, channel runner? Anybody know?

He sounds like a scoundrel out of an episode of George Gently.

He looked a similar size to Tyler Smith. So not a target man. Looked a long way off L1 or L2 standard.

Bit harsh off the back of, what, 10-15 minutes on the pitch?

I'd say that's pretty generous given Theakston had written off Archie Matthews as a professional footballer within about a minute of seeing him.

I watched him in all of his 3 appearances.

He is small and runs around a lot, getting in the mix and harrassing defenders.

More like Bryan Wade (for the oldies) or close to Payne's style chases around but is a bit off the actual pace.

He is nowhere near the level to play for the 1st team yet IMHO, but with careful nurturing he could be a first teamer in future years but playing him would do his confidence no good whatsoever.

He played 70 mins at Rovers from the off last season in the Mickey Mouse cup as well as 2 sub appearances this term.

I've seen Matthews play about a dozen times if you include his loan moves and youth cup so it wasn't based on 'a minute'. He's just clearly nowhere near 1st team level just another in the long line of youth keepers who hang around a bit but aren't football league standard like Craig Farr, Matty Bulman, Mark Scott, Leigh Bedwell even Will Henry. Only one that should have done better than he did was Jon Stewart.

As for Parsons, he's best off steering clear this season as a few games with this mob could finish him off before he's even started.

We don't have a particularly solid record of producing keepers to be fair. Who was the last one that came through the youth ranks to have a good career? I'm thinking Rhys Evans, but I think he was produced by Chelsea and sold to us IIRC.

I'd forgotten about the Boycott Cup tbf, but this season he's had about 10 minutes at the end of a game we'd already lost and 3-4 minutes at the end of another game I can't remember what the state of play was. But given it was this season, I assume we lost. Don't think that's enough to judge a player on personally but I'd agree with what you and others have said that this squad this season doesn't look like an especially healthy environment in which to nurture a young player's fledgling career.

He did however manage to do more than the 1st team did last week, and beat Oxford at the weekend.

He went to Chelsea early on, I'd say Mildenhall is the last who came through our ranks and built a decent career....

Christ, that's practically a lifetime ago!

Yeah Rhys was in our U14 team and sold to Chelsea for a small development fee as a 15 year old, came through Chelseas youth system and sold back to us aged 21.

I don't remember the last home developed keeper that came through our ranks and played more than 50 games for us. Mildenhall only played 33 games and he is the last good level keeper we produced and pretty much the only one I can remember since Jimmy Allen in the 70's.

It is a strange one, other than Mildenhall and Jon Stewart we don't seem to produce keepers that have any kind of stature or size. If you compare the likes of Matthews, Henry, Bedwell etc to the young keepers we bring in from other clubs ours always look small and weak in comparison.

I think there have only been five youth products who've played 50 games this century in any position, so that's a pretty tough bar. Two Thompsons, Morrison, Pook and Sol Davis. And you could argue about Morrison's eligibility.

Dropping it to 30 only gives you another four mind. Our youth academy has been dreadful/dreadfully used depending on your view for many years.

Jon Stewart was absolute toilet.

I remember a very young Mildy playing in a pre-season game at Witney Town (possibly 95-96), he was bloody massive even then.

Fair points but it completely negates players who were sold on for significant profit before they reached 50 games.

Similar to Morrison as in so far he didn’t completely come through our youth team but Lucas Jutkiewicz looked the part and was never going to stay here long enough to play 50 games.

I guess at our level our youth development is more about making money than making first team players. You’d think some where down the years you’d get some players who could have a solid career here. They seem to be either too good and get sold and woeful and let go

Absolutely, if you look at it as a way of making money by selling to bigger clubs then maybe it's viable (I'm sure someone has done the maths, certainly clubs like Brentford have and decided to stop). Not many of those we've sold in the 12-16 age range have ended up as professional footballers either - Bogle obviously the stand out of recent times.

Jamie Stephens to Liverpool the only goalkeeper I can remember, to link back to keepers. Played a bit of League Two/Conference at Barnet.

The younger they are they more it’s bigger clubs taking a gamble and one that quite frankly probably costs what to them is next to nothing.

Does seem odd that we can’t very often produce players for the level we are at.

I suspect it's the same for most other clubs at our level, with most picking up players that haven't made it at clubs higher up. The talented kids will be picked up by the big clubs leaving the rest with slim-pickings and hoping for the occasional starlet that slipped through the bigger clubs' nets.

Not so odd when we're run on a shoestring, have no training facility and minimal youth scouting network. Add to that significant incursions into our catchment area from Southampton, Reading and Bristol City, and it's a lot less mysterious.

It's not just the first team that's underfunded. All the money goes there, so there's very little infrastructure beyond it.

I imagine so, would be interesting to have actual data but I can’t be arsed to look for it.

I guess it a player in a L1 youth set up is L1 standard at 15/16 a Prem club will think if he’s L1 standard at 15 he could be Prem standard by 18.

Then when they aren’t they get released and end up in L1.

Seems a bit ludicrous to say but are we held back due to geography? Given that Reading, Bristol City and probably Southampton and London clubs (specifically Chelsea) are very easy to get to from Swindon, the more elite of kids are much more likely to get a better footballing education at these clubs rather than us. Obviously the occasional gem 'slips through the cracks' but more often than not get hoovered up when it looks like they have a chance of becoming good professionals. (Bogle and the kid that went to Brighton cases in point)

Until we can compete with these clubs its unlikely we are going to become a conveyor belt of talent sadly.

I wasn't trying to write him off. I was just trying to say that in the (brief) appearances earlier in the year he didn't look to be at the required standard. If you remember Charlie Austin, Simon Cox, Sam Parkin or other 'good' strikers that have played for us, then they immediately showed they had something about them.

Parsons ran around, harried and clogged someone in his first game. But, I don't remember him showing a presence or anything that made you sit up and think that he was a bit special.

So, not writing him off, but am suggesting that he is not ready yet to be thrown into the mix.

No, those are all exactly the reasons why we don’t have a conveyer belt of players coming through every year. It perfectly explains why any better prospects we have on our books get bought by bigger clubs.

All of those reasons also explain why most of our youth products end up in non league.


I just find it a bit odd that for us there is little in between. A youth product that isn’t good enough to swiped by the big boys but good enough to play in the football league.

That was my point, he had the potential to be much better. Pompey and Burnley both took a punt on him after he left us.

Our youth development is poor across all positions but especially bad when it comes to keepers.

Looking back the one who many seemed to think was going to be 'the one' was Andy Caton, but a combination of injuries and limited playing time (shocked to see he only ever made 15 appearances 10 from the bench) put paid to that, he and Ashan Holgate were supposed to be the dogs cohooners in that youth team.

Didn't that lad that Ince took to Macclesfield with him do reasonably well.....

Nope, Jon Stewart had no potential.
All he had was size & a short temper.

Must have had something for clubs higher up the food chain than us to take him on as a punt.

Caton was a Southampton product I think. We signed him as a scholar as a 16 year old.

Yeah.
Size.

Perhaps the big boys can afford to keep the youth products that don't look like they are going to be good enough just in case they actually turn out to be decent? Sounds a bit unlikely but its not unheard of that clubs do stockpile players more than they really need to (Chelsea in particular)

Which is ultimately a key factor with modern keepers, in contrast all our other youth keepers seem to be small and lightweight. I'm not sure whether its just a lack of physical development or what but we don't produce keepers that are up to the physicality of league football.

Stewart was only 6'2 its hardly like he was goliath, no idea how tall Matthews is, interweb suggest 6' so only an inch shorter than Trueman, same height as Camp.

If we are basing keepers ability on size Fryer trumps them all. 

I agree with you.
Out of the youth keepers you mentioned that basically hung around and we never good enough, I’d say purely on keeping ability Stewart was probably the worst!
I watched a lot of him at youth level and he was basically a big hot head - which yeah intimidated kids. I can’t imagine any of them ever wanted to go one on one with him or challenge him for crosses & corners.

He was most definitely built to be a keeper. Was never going to be good enough & whilst it’s assumptions on my part I would guess the main reasons Portsmouth, Bournemouth and Burnley looked at him was based on his size.

I always thought Callum Antell looked technically good, no idea what became of him (opens google)

I think a lot of the issue we have had with young keepers is that they have been retained mainly as a backside on a seat rather than any sort of inclination that they were (or were ever going to be) good enough. Look at Will Henry, was here for 5 seasons, played a few league games in the first two seasons, a cup game in the third and then never played again for the last two seasons. 

We seem to send youths out on loan thinking they are miraculously going to become better players.

They also weren't under 18s at the time. I wonder how they would have looked had they been thrown on for a 10-minute cameo when they were at U18 level?

Fair enough, maybe that wasn't your intent (and I'm not saying that starting regularly would be good for him or the team). But as a fanbase we are far too quick to write off our home-grown talent, seem to remember much the same "Not ready" "Too lightweight" "Never going to make it at this level" being thrown around about Scott Twine even at the start of this season. Now he's our most valuable asset (in, admittedly, a not very competitive field)

It's not just that though is it? The kids themselves might be more inclined to stay if we could show there is a pathway for them here. Instead year after year we sign 3 or 4 1st year pros who are at that stage understandably not yet quite ready to become 1st team regulars. So they get loaned out to local non-league sides, which makes some sense in terms of experiencing senior football etc. Then are written off by managers not wanting to take a chance on young players and fans who think they must be "shit" because they've been playing at Chippenham. Then find their route to the 1st team blocked by competition winners.

I think will Henry would have come good. Not the biggest but technically good. Was excellent at supermarine and apparently a really good lad as well. Given the total.oiles of shite we had in goal during his tenure and since we could have done a lot worse.

I think we are quick to write off any player, i think that is just football fans. Adebeyo and Nathan Byrne being good examples

Again for me he just didn't have the stature or physicality to be a league keeper, he looked like a child when he was on the pitch for us. Unfair comparison I know but if you contrast him to Benda who is the same age they are light years apart. You'd back Benda with a high ball against any attacking player every time but I wouldn't say the same for Henry.

Scott twines build was the exact same up until this season too

Think Bryne was well regarded IIRC but Adebayo is a good example, yes. Obviously a shame to write any player off too quickly, but all the more so when it's "one of our own".

Not all fans obviously just the self appointed experts.  :D

That pretty much is all fans :)

I remember fans being very keen on Adeboyo when he first started here. I know I was. There was a bit of a buzz when we tried to sign him permanently.

After a few games he seemed to lose his mojo. Loss of confidence, maybe?

Then fans started calling him shit, apparently oblivious of the 4-5 weeks when he demonstrated was clearly anything but. The memories of football fans seem to be incredibly short much of the time. I even remember some calling Doughty shit when he was going through a period when he wasn't at his best.

Why are you no longer in red, FH?

I un-modded myself - didn't fancy it any more.

But you are still Constable Flashheart of the Forum Police though?

That's Seargent to you.

Sorry sarge

You will always be a bit of Constable to me :D

 :D

Slaughter? So it was YOU all along  ;)

Coward