Thetownend.com

Setting off for the Dale in a few minutes to allow for some beer time as I fear I will be needing it!

They have the 4th best home record, we are 18th best away.

Can only see a 2 goal defeat today. See you other silly sods up there. COYR

Will take a point.

1-0 win

Cannot see beyond a defeat, 3-0!  Will be overjoyed to be proved wrong . . . again!

Wrap up warm you guys that go today!

2-1 defeat. Hoping for an improved performance on Tuesday's game, although it can't be any worse I guess!

Nuff respect :pint:  3.1 defeat

Pre match recovery, from black puddings with breakfast, in The Regal Moon.

So, Rochdale, good club with a hardy bunch of fans.
Average league position, 79th of 92 since 50/51.
At some other clubs the core support might start to drift away after only a couple of years of relative struggle.

Improved performance today and a positive result.

Pints of Wobbly Bob available here, victory is assured and drunken oblivion awaits.

Is anyone absent today that we know of?

potentially yasser

More often than not your updates are the best part of these match day threads. Continued kudos to you going all over the country to watch us!

  We've something like one away win in 20 odd, so a victory is unlikely. However, after Tuesday debacle, if Sherwood is going to have any influence in terms of motivation then it should come today. A defeat, very damaging.

 

Just today?

If Tuesday is anything to go by it won't matter if they all are!

2-0 Loss. Mild anarchy and continued mild derision and mockery from the nationals.

I'm hoping for a dull 0-0!!  Apologies to those hardy souls that are going

We're going to win this 2-1
Safe journey to those making the trip

 :pint:

3-1 to Town

Ah Rochdale, the only place I've ever seen (and bought) a cream cracker, piece of cheese, and a pickled onion all wrapped up in a crisp type bag. Marvelous.

Oh. 2-2

Rochdale 2- 3 swindon  branco sent off again.

Hoping for a big response from TS, not expecting much. Might pinch a draw

Doughty and Furlong to score.2-2

Probably win!!

Beaker starts!

Murray and Thomas on the bench, hmm

Fuck Knows, I'm not sure even the players & staff have a clue what we are likely to do.

We could perform like Tuesday & get humiliated, or we could perform like Saturday & win. The likely outcome is somewhere in between so I will go for a draw (which wouldn't be too bad, if we could actually win at home consistently).

Vigouroux; Furlong, Rossi-Branco, Jones, Ormonde-Ottewill; Rodgers, Smith, Doughty (C); Barry, Obika, Goddard.
SUBS | Henry, Thomas, Evans, Murray, Iandolo, Norris, Delfouneso

Am I right in thinking Smith and Rodgers both started the 3.0 at our place?

Barry Goddard and Obika front 3?

Very keen on idea of Doughty as captain

Doughty captain today.

Rochdale without 10 players - surely even we can beat a 1-man team!

According to the Adver site, we're only starting with 10 men. I know we're struggling for players, but  :hmmm: perhaps Tactics Tim has a new master plan.

Will take an improved performance, seeing as its early days for the Tactics Tim regime.

Great to see Beeks in the line up again. Would prefer him with a strike partner though. Up there on his own first game back after two months out is going to be hard work......

....Watch him get a hat-trick all by himself now.

Rochdale 2 Swindon 5

Poor old Coops. FGR 2-1 up after 90 minutes and lost 3-2

Brought on Traore, with 15 to go to shore things up  ;)

Pissed as a fart, made it into the ground.

If the trains don't fuck up then should be back in Swindon post midnight with three points in the bag.

I fucking love this job.

No Norris or Fonz starting...

Can Beeks do the 90?! Doubt it...

Looks as if we are trying things anyway.

Your second line proves your first!

6 hour train ride, what are you catching? The Rocket? Last time I went we were back in the Euston flyer at 8.30!

19.27 out of Manchester, to Reading then bus to Swindon.
Trams to city centre have also changed since last time, so later train.

Just missed a very good chance, should be 1-0.

We're losing.

Sounds like were starting to colapse .

Lot of bookings so far, can see a silly sending off in the second half (for Goddard or someone) and probably another Rochdale goal to seal it. But that is the pessimist in me.

Soon as we concede life saps out the team. Can't see us turning this around.

We sounded good for the first 25, less so after the goal.

Still not convinced we have anyone that can play that loan striker role mind. Yeah, yeah, Goddard pushing on, etc, etc.

Well how long can Williams come up with the"our heads drop when we concede first " line and get away with it?

Can only improve with experience in the side which is a MUST in January. Hope we're still in the mix to stay up by then.

Three good opportunities on the break in first half that came to nothing.

Smith in no 10 role and Doughty holding.
That might need to change in second half.

Good test of character coming up.

Surely smith should be holding and Doughty number 10?

Bloody hell, let off there. Warm knife through butter by the sounds (and good skills).

Norris ON
Barry OFF
Come on Nozza, this is you moment to shine.

Oh FFS. Conceded from another free kick. Game over.

On the plus side it sounds like they play One Step Beyond when they score.

2-0, more crap defending

Getting boring now

When does it become one defeat too many?

3-0

It's over!!

Damage limitation time  :(

Well really not a knee jerk person but Williams just isnt the right man

Damage limitation now!!

Embarrassing. I've had a fucking titful. This could be 4 or 5.

Shambolic. But after Tuesday, no surprise.

Fucking hell Sherwood, sort it out.

But isn't the point that it's not Williams, but Sherwood now.

Exactly.

..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9EH1G4EwljM

Actually, it might be better if they do get a fucking good hammering at least then there's no papering over the cracks.

I've been voicing my lack of confidence in Williams as much as the next man, but I don't see how he can be blamed now.

Forget who's managing or whatever, these players simply are not good enough. Can't polish a turd after all.

The players have little fight or heart. Folding like a cheap suit game after game. Pitiful.

The only thing I would say is that if the confidence is so low, does still having Williams involved in coaching the team help?

Boo- Fucks up and gives away a penalty. Marvellous.

Steve Davis - are they taking the piss now, is he going to pot the red. He does, a break of 4.

Case in point. BOO gives away possession then gives away penalty. Nothing a manager can do about that, only thing you can do is not play him, but not as if we have anyone else.

So the Charlton game really was a one off then?

I'm not sure even Sherwood is going to be able to do anything with this useless bunch. Worrying that we're stuck with them until January.

Is Brophy injured?

Fucking 4-0. What a bunch of cunts.
Feel sorry for visiting fans today, especially plymred

Where the fuck do we go from here - apart from one division down?

Don't forget Rochdale are also playing the game without a recognised striker on the pitch.

Fucking dreadful...

Got to get some bodies in January..or we are down and I can't see us coming back very quickly.

Depressing!

Brophy's been experiencing breathlessness they're still trying to diagnose, which all seems a bit odd.

Even I'm sick of this shit now.

Talk about shit stat:

 ‏@_BenWills:
Unless #STFC get five in 20-odd minutes, their run of not getting back-to-back wins since March will carry on. March.

really? I thought Williams was the manager still.He's not responsible for the mental,tactical and physical weakness shown by the team up til now? Fair enough but I think he should be sacked.

Apparently not. Our best bet might be to get 5 sent off so game is abandoned

The thing is, Rochdale comms reckoned we were quite good up until the goal. I still maintain we have the ability, only they go to pieces when things go wrong. If we manage to get the first goal in games I reckon we'll go on to win them.

Getting in a leader in January would be handy. Preferably a shaven headed psycho that wont give our lot any choice but to keep their shit together.

Lucky they had 10 players out

If there are 4 worse teams than us my cock's a kipper

We've matched up with them now.

I'm having a meltdown, right here. Right now.

Fucking Norris and Delfounso, what a joke of a replacement for Ajose. Unfortunate Obika has been more injured than normal but he's only a 15 goal a season striker, tops.

Absolutely shambolic last minute recruiting in a season you had to get it right first time given the loan market situation. Shite.

Our only hope this season is that there are 4 teams shitter than us, which is becoming increasingly unlikely.
There's a feeling of hideous inevitability about this
 

Sherwood picks the team, takes training and selects tactics. He is responsible for all of those things.

PdC?

Well as I said yesterday, I can't see Sherwood wanting to be associated with this for very long. The only ray of hope is that there are a few other basket case clubs down with us, or like Bury plummeting, so it is just about conceivable there might be 4 worse than us.

Today's Official Attendance - 2,196

Makes you wonder how they manage

The buck stops with him. Hopefully he'll show some actual bollocks and take post match interviews. Genuinely want to know what he sees and how he's going to fix it.

I don't even know who to blame. Fucking shambles nevertheless.

I said something similar the other day. Even during our most dire performances, we've usually started reasonably well. A couple of misplaced passes (or worse, a goal) and we're fucked for the next 80 minutes.

John Trollope's not with a club at the moment. I'd have him, at 73, over Boo anytime.

I agree about ability but mental strength is a big part of it - and we have none.

Only for the last week though.What i am saying is that Williams'contribution pre and post Sherwood does not warrant his continued employment in my opinion.Why is he still here?

Ffs. Make the useless fuckers walk home.

Especially as they have 10 players out injured or suspended.

What a difference a week makes.

Sounds awful, very disappointing today to say the least, time the players grew some bollocks.

How do you even fix being gutless?

I suppose a few (3 or 4) experienced heads may help. I'm equally sure the chances of good experienced players wanting to come in on loan to a struggling league 1 team are fairly low.

I think our best chance is getting a player or four that are youngish but with quality. If Tactics can't do that, then there is little point to him being here.

I thought I was being sensible in demanding eleven changes after Tuesday night's debacle...this is a better idea.

Might help with the fitness aspect....

Don't mind losing away from home, but 4-0 (and sounds as if it might be more soon) is worrying. Goal difference is going to be shot to pieces by the time the transfer window opens.

Bottom by Xmas is looking on the cards.

Its not necessarily an ability problem, its mental strength and fitness IMO.

I think it's time.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/killself.gif)

Exactly........... but how do you solve that? realistically they need to be in on extra training tomorrow, double shift and have to want to play for the club......... too many let their heads drop as soon as a goal goes in, there is a lack of determination to try once we are behind....... you can probably put some blame on Williams for probably being too soft on them when we lose but at the end of the day they are paid a salary to do their job and at the moment they aren't doing it to the best of their abilities.

Exeter concede 97th minute at Carlisle. Nice journey home.

Oh, and I disagree, it is an ability thing for too many of them. But getting fit would be a start.

Thank god. FT.

Southend away Tuesday, beat Bradford 3-0, Cox and Ranger up front. Christ.

KO

Experience! That's how...

Can't see that happening.

Pin our hopes on some unproven youngins from Alfreton or Belington Terriers.

Norris, Delfouneso, Thomas, Murray all experienced players in this league or the champs........ we just don't have any in defence and that's our issue, once they score 1 they score a hatful as the defence go to sleep after the first.

Ability is inextricably linked to heart and fitness. As I pointed out we've a horrible run of fixtures coming up before January, very difficult to see these players getting too many points, starting with an improving Sarfend on Tuesday. As to whether Tactics Tim, if still around, will replace the current set of misfits with another is moot.

Somehow we are out the relegation zone by 1 point. Important not to lose all hope.

FFS. Williams speaking. Pointless.

I'd say that confidence is a far bigger factor. A few results and we wouldn't look this shit, fitness or not. But where the hell are they coming from.

You can't keep eroding quality and expecting no consequences either.

Power left it late to bring in players prior to our pre season games, which he stated on the radio at the end of last season wouldn't happen this season, as the saying goes "fail to prepare, prepare to fail"

I was driving down to watch that. Not now, Not chucking my money away, when the outcome is probably inevitable. I shall have a big fat curry instead, guaranteed a warm glow from that at least.

Williams:
Missed the first bit about mental toughness which concluded with stuff about having to come to terms with playing in front of people and being criticised
-  Nothing that STFC are doing different to other clubs
- More direct than we were. Williams came under criticism for his style of play. They are trying to come up with a plan B, but its not easy
- Obika important player for this squad. Huge plus he came through unscathed
- On Tuesday, coaches will support, but need to be brutally honest. Just told the players that there is no hiding place and they might need to think about life without football unless they grow up quickly
- Not looking to limp through to transfer window. Going to do the best they can do. Need to be in as good a shape as possible and recruit
- Kasim ankle injury. Need to see when swelling goes down what is wrong. Might be available for Tuesday but is doubtful
- Vigs: Exempt from criticism? Overall performances have been fantastic. Doesnt deserve to be on the wrong end of 4-0 scoreline
- Talked about young players like Tom Smith watching from the bench, but would like to be out there. Hes a strong character. Can hold his own amongst this lot, but is not the sort of experience we need in so much as an experienced head to bring on others.

We got a couple of decent results, in the 2 TV games.  A few players returned from injury, and then Sherwood came in a fella with at least some profile.....should have provided some confidence.  However it's gone completely the other way, all that's left is a good old fashioned clear out, either, preferably in Jan, or at season's end.  It's pretty obvious many of this lot don't want to be here, so should be helped on their way.

Could be worse, I just saw Bury let in 5 against AFC again.

and Willimas alluded to that in his interview, some of the players will need to think about careers away from football as they obviously don't want to be a professional enough to want to go out on the pitch and want to perform to the best of their ability.

I may be in the minority but we can blame the owner, coaches etc but at the end of the day, it's the players who are paid to get the results on the pitch and they aren't doing it........ Confidence should be sky high but as soon as we go behind it seems it disappears into oblivion and we are made to look like a non-league team but when we are winning we look like a really good L1 team........... our defence is our weakest point, shore that up, stop goals going in and our midfielders and strikers will hopefully have more confidence to want to go forward and score goals like against Charlton.

And Bury have lost 8 in the league in a row. And their goal difference is as bad a ours. And they are only a point above us.

Chesterfield, Shrews, Oldham, Bury...perhaps there are 4 as shit as us after all.

I don't think there's such a thing as being a gutless player. I think you're just either not trying or being badly managed.
And I think they are trying.

Danny Wilson hanging on to his job by his fingertips.

Bury were joint top earlier in the season weren't they? before the truth about their precarious financial state came into the news, could be connected.

That's been in the news for a couple of years. Possible though it's got worse and there are wage problems affecting morale?

I'd disagree. There are players that tend to hide from the ball when the chips are down, hide from decisions in case of a mistake. Its what I'd call gutless, some may call a confidence crisis.

We need to take chances as and when they arise at 0-0.
Otherwise the lack of defensive nous will be found out.
So it proved today.

Worryingly, there was no semblance of trying to retain possession and dominate. Shambles.

Off to Southend on Tuesday where a more pessimistic approach might do the trick in terms of incorrect predictions.

It was bloody cold today as well.

In better news, at least my wee has gone from sickly green colour to a more natural yellow affair.

 :pint:

Pathetic, ..........and the question is what experienced pro would want to come here in January,  and would Power pay him the wages he would want, I doubt it, the minimum we are looking for in the new year are at least 2 defenders , a leader in mid field and a striker that knows where the back of the net is.
7 games till the transfer window is opened.... we could be rock bottom and even adrift of 5th placed bottom team......we would need a miracle to escape relegation imho..... dark days ahead.

Owe yet more money to HMRC and another winding up order by all accounts.......... they get owners who promise the earth but don't have a penny to rub together and need to rely on others to stump up the funds (Jed).

Sarfend must be rubbing their hands,  like kids waiting for Xmas,  Even tactless tim must see this is mission impossible.

It might be that just having another El-Abd* would make the difference, he helped to calm things down while he was here. We were also frail at the back a few years ago before a certain Mr. Greer (don't tell DV), rocked up on loan to get some games after coming back from injury. Just somebody on the pitch to keep their heads and talk to those around them, talk them through the game. Do we have anybody even close to being in that mold at the moment?

There's plenty of old warhorses out there that'll be looking for games as their career comes to and end, or to get some fitness after injury.

*No need to tell me that El-Abd is at Shrewsbury and wont come back. I know. I'm just referring to the type of player.

That's the type of player we need alongside Jones / Branco........ we had ricketts and he did well, we had el-abd he did ok, shouldn't be too hard to get one on loan or permanent esp in their 30's but can give us that experience we are missing at the back.

The problem is our forwards don't think they will score more than we let in, so as soon as we go behind, the whole team basically gives us, they just don't believe in themselves to score / defend....... which is frustrating

Let's hope we have a big freeze resulting in some postponements before the transfer window opens. The less games we have to play before January the better.

Also, I'd like to think Sherwood will bring in a significantly better calibre of player than Power has this season otherwise we're well and truly buggered.

El abd was crap. If i was a seasoned professional id give stfc a fucking big swerve unless I was desperate or looking to swell my bank balance. We also need one in midfield. The problem is where to fucking start with this lot. First of all a lot of the injuries are total bollox. I played for winning and losing teams and the latter will have more injuries where players just didn't fancy it. Easy to say you've got a niggle. they were blowing out of their arses after 10 mins Tuesday. When you put a group together you look for leaders and there aren't any. I think the crowd have been pretty good with the players so far. It is going to get far worse. A bad result Tuesday and saturday will be bad. Losing is ok but abject surrender is not.

Excluding the cup game, Sherwood's had one good result and one bad. today was 'very' bad but I'm sure we'd all agree that a win a Southend would be 'very' good (whatever the score or manner of win)... It's just one game. I'm disappointed we are not higher up, I'm sure Power / Williams is too but when things go bad you need to fix them. Power has addressed that in the best way possible given the time / circumstance and now we have to wait. It won't be overnight but I don't think this team has the hallmark of one that is doomed...those on the brink of financial collapse with players that are both no good and overpaid can drag teams down as can divisions in the team etc, etc but we don't have that. I'm not too worried. Just disappointed to get thumped today and hoping for a decent result in the next one.

We're in the stickiest situation since sticky the stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun.

It's not been a good few days....first the Owner is spending money on acquiring another club, when STFC is achieving its worst ever defeat to a non league club in 110 years at the CG in the FA Cup. Second, STFC loses its first ever league game at Spotland. I guess the decent win v Charlton, has done enough to keep protests away for now, but it can't be very far away.

conversely i think this team has exactly the hallmark of one going down. it feels like the Danny Wilson season in terms of 'it's going to come good'. yet never delivering.

The difference is, a change has been made much sooner. This gives is a fighting chance of change, and a transfer window. Or we've been stitched up with the next Paul Hart, Tim(e) will tell.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong as I have fuck all confidence in staying up. Power may have done something but he's done fuck all for 2 years where our faults have been apparent.
I've written off this season already. At this moment I see no light at the end of the tunnel, only relentlessly boring shite football and teams ripping us a new one in our non contact version of football.

In many ways, I disregard the Eastleigh result. It was shitty and unacceptable but Town could be positioned within the top 6 and still lose 1-3 at home to teams like Eastleigh.

My issue is the constant 'one step forward, two steps back'. The problems were fairly clear in pre-season and now we're left clinging on until January when the Eliot Benyon transfers will be made. Great.

Long, long way to go but it feels like we've been here before. I can't justify the £50-odd day to go and watch Swindon because I know exactly what will be conjured up and it's not worth paying out (even if we win).

It's terribly sad.

At least i haven't got a season ticket this time,having to endure the Paul Hart tenure was the lowest i've felt watching the Town.I hope this doesn't end up the same.I'm in need of this  :pint:

But who does the blame fall for? Last season Power and williams both said that Williams told him he didn't want a big squad and he then said it bit him in the ass with injuries..... They then bring in players this season but they lack experience.......

Is it Powers fault or is it Williams for not specifying who he wants? No one knows but it's dividing fans on who is ultimately to blame.

Rochdale ground.........Crown oil arena.What a joke. :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

whoever recruited out forward line, and deems branco, Rodgers and boo up to scratch.

I have no idea if that's Williams or Power, you're right.

I do know that Williams is unable to coach defensive duties. That needs to be fixed by Sherwood

It might help the defence by playing in the oppositions half all the game....Charlton must be shit.

Right on cue the idiots are out in force on the FB group:


Financially we are better off then we have ever been, the football side sucks but can be changed with a couple of players and a bit of change of attitude but asking for admin? really shows the delusion.

I have to admit that I understand Williams has a good reputation as a coach but I have no idea what that is based on? Are we crediting him with polishing up some of the bigger sales we've done in the past few years, or were they recruited on the basis of being rough diamonds in the first place (probably by Power, possibly Sherwood)? Since our 4-0 at Wembley, we've not improved defensively one iota with any set of players or formations. Not saying I'd want him to go, as I think we need stability and continuity to offset changes elsewhere in the playing staff but not sure why he is so regarded.

Lee Power is a 'hands on' owner so I'd point blame firmly towards him. Luke Williams never wanted this job, I don't think so anyway. The 5-year deal was probably more to be a part of the project than to be our glorious leader.

Plus I don't think Seamus Brady exists.

As a side, I was listening to The Football Ramble podcast on Friday and they were laughing at Swindon Town's predicament (Sherwood). That might not matter in the grand scheme of things but it's a good indicator of what the outsiders are thinking. It's not good.

Think there was a gamble taken on Delfonso which hasn't paid off, he has a lot of potential but has never really performed at any club......... we have taken that gamble before and it worked, probably means he will be off to pastures new.

Norris, I think it;s down to confidence, Power isn't stupid to spend money for no reason so obviously saw something in him, just need to get to the bottom of why he isn't fulflilling what Power saw in him. I said from the start of the season, all 4 of our strikers are backs to goal, hold up forwards, we need an ajose who will play off them for the tap ins and be in the box.


That's true, and hopefully in January we get 1/2 experienced defenders in as soon as we go behind, the defenders give up, they don't win balls.. Against Charlton they all played their socks off, last 2 games they were terrible.

I think the events of this week, have probably done for Luke's tolerance from the fans. If he was coaching the youth squad then maybe still a place at the club, but nothing higher. I don't think anyone would be too upset if he was sacked on Monday.

Surely the policy of recruiting youngsters in the hope they can be polished and players that have shown something in the past but have faded (Thomas, Delfounedo, Murray) needs to be dumped.

If these are the only sort of players we can afford to recruit then we'-re fucked.

Williams' much vaunted ability as a coach seems misplaced - he is unable to fashion a workable system.

We've recruited players in an attempt to play a certain style. That style has failed us and a change to a more pragmatic approach with the advent of Sherwood appears to be futile with these players.

Just where do we go now?

I listened to Rochdale comms today and they kept commenting on how our defenders were allowing the ball to bounce before attempting to clear it.

WTF is that all about? Are they maybe terrified of committing to the ball and missing it?

I don't think the quality of the players is the issue, it's the attitude....... We battered Rochdale, Oldham and Charlton when we went ahead......... but we get battered when we go behind..... You could have messi, Ronaldo and Tevez in your team and still play shit if the players just don't believe in themselves.....

Something has to be done but it's not an easy fix, "you have to be stronger"..... how do you do that? Our players seem to have a massive issue with confidence and you can't change that in 2 weeks.

Realistically what could Lee do different? You bring in a manager, he then leaves within months due to illness....... do you bring in yet another manager and let him do his style, the players then have to learn to play to a new style yet again!

Or do you keep the coaches who worked alongside the manager, keep trying to play his style and keep the "rhythm" going....

Our results last season weren't bad, we got upto 8th, knocking on the door of the playoffs then injuries wiped us out and we dropped like a lead balloon..... Why we get so many injuries is another discussion but we aren't a bad team and could beat the majority of teams in this league but we have a major issue with attitudes of the players, they don't seem to want to try when the tough gets shit as most of them haven't been in the relegation shit before, majority are in their first / second season as pro's.... We need some steel in the defence to give the "kids" someone to lean on for advice and confidence when we are 1-0 down.

When we had PDC we were known for coming from behind and nicking 3 points but we had players like Douglas, Cutherbert in the squad......

I do blame Power for relying on too many youngsters but it also falls on the players as no one is stepping up to be that leader, they are all hiding behind Williams.

Remember George Barker? I think we dropped a 6 figure sum on him too. I think he was worse.

That was probably one of the worst performances I have witnessed for an awful long time.

Power needs to get a grip of this situation quick- the players he has recruited just ain't good enough. No back to back wins since March prove this.

The atmosphere in the away end today was poisonous, fans having a pop at players at the end.

This cannot go on. Power should be focusing on us and the mess HE has created rather than investing elsewhere

Didn't work out and was shipped out......... Norris doesn't come good and he will be out of the door I expect

At the end of the day, how many times will a player be scouted? 5/6 times? They can play blinders in them games and as soon as they come to you, they suffer a loss in confidence due to a new team, new manager etc and they don't score for 6 months........ Happens at every club but you have to give the player the chance to prove themselves....

Norris is a Billy payner, holds the ball up and needs someone to lay it off too, we are missing a goal poacher (ajose)

Lot of factual mistakes in this post....which don't really help in backing up your opinion, that we could beat the majority of teams in this league.

This.

I agree Delf was a gamble. I don't believe he and Norris were our first choice targets. At least I would be amazed if they were. I think they gambled leaving everything late in the hope that they'd get that Palace lad and that he'd be good enough. Then they were stuck with what they thought was the best of what was left .

I don't agree out strikers are backs to goal/hold it up types either. Nota  'fox in the box' Ajose type either as you say for sure.  

We aren't feeding them with that many chances, but they've missed absolute sitters (mainly Norris). I can see him being maybe a 10-15 goal a season man in a good year, but ...

go on ........

...well Douglas and Cuthbert had legged it before PDC managed a game...

I will give you that one, for some reason I had it in my head that Di canio was here when we lost to Brentford in the playoffs

But you get my point, we had "steel" in the team, there has always been 1/2 experienced "hard men" who would carry the team when we were struggling.

PDC had come and gone by Brentford. Cuthbert and Douglas were here for the Millwall Wembley season.

C'mon Gareth this isn't statto sort of knowledge. Do you support Swindon? 








;)

OUCH :sofa:

My memory on years is poor, I will give you that........ I remember names more than numbers ;)

I do remember PDC making it rather public that Douglas had a place in the squad. He (Douglas), however, bottled it. Cuthbert made what was a rather sideways move at the time as well.

It's rule one of football, never let the ball bounce in or near the box. Fuck me I only played Sunday League and that was drilled into us.

Eh? How?

Harder the try the better you seem to be.

I think it was Douglas who made the noises. Well, the Adver definitely suggested that Douglas had been 'impressed' by the appointment of PDC.

His departure was probably confirmed moments later.

Agree with this. If Sherwood is as we are told picking the team, system and tactics, then he should have the balls to front up and explain when the team/system/tactics he has chosen don't work. Continuing to bottle out of doing so like he is doing makes him every bit as gutless as the players. Lead by example, Sherwood....

That's effort making up for deficiencies in ability then. Which isn't what Reg said.

Which makes me wonder why they are doing it.

I don't think for one moment that they're doing it because they're told to. Maybe their confidence is so shot that they're terrified of making a mistake.

Maybe they're just a bit too slow to react?

That's what Luke said the other week, they are too scared to make a mistake so they try to take the extra touch and get caught........ it's a lack of confidence throughout the squad unfortunately.....

Its a bloody odd setup. I scoffed at people last week who asked who the manager was. Sherwood, obviously, he's in charge of everything.

But he doesn't talk to the press, stays in the stands and passes who knows what to someone else to tell the players.

Not saying it can't work, but its somewhat unusual to us outsiders.

That + no contract. You can see why people are scratching their heads.

It's obvious to Swindon Town fans who's 'in charge'. But for outsiders, well, it's a mess regardless.

Let's be honest, ordinarily Sherwood wouldn't look twice at a club like ours. If he wasn't Power's chum he wouldn't be here.

The chummy set-up isn't working. Staff and players don't appear to give a fuck - the fans likewise.

Power now has eyes on 2 other clubs - whatever 'passion' he has for STFC is going to be diluted.

Not all fans, from some of the messages I read. Even as a fan I think the whole thing a bit necessarily convoluted. Was it you that said "co managers".

You can't show your ability without a sense of will to win, allied to the fitness of mind and body to express yourself. Too many of our players, lack the fitness of mind and body, and have little will to win.....therefore are unable to demonstrate much ability as a footballer.

Er, its a bit early for that. He's been here a week and hasn't got much to work with!

I'd like to see him take proper control, get in the dugout, bin LW back to the training ground and go from there. But we'll see how it goes.

Seems like he wants to take all the decsions, but none of the responsibility. We've already got a team full of gutless bottlers, not sure we need another upstairs

Fair enough, put like that, makes sense

Knee-jerk much?

I'm waiting for wobbybob to say he's seen them on the motorway hard shoulder. Then that he's thrown a bottle of green piss at them. That's knee jerk ;)

I say a lot of things :)

Sherwood does the majority but Williams hasn't been demoted so the 'co-' logic remains.

In as much as the normal situation with Sherwood coming in would be Williams going out. Trying to keep everyone happy by an owner who is not at the club on a day to day basis is muddying the waters.

I'm fairly sure that Sherwood won't be around for long.....

Williams has been demoted, we all know that. They're just being diplomatic about it.

Personally I would also like to hear Tactics Tim's thoughts rather than Luke's, but that's just a personal preference. I also wonder if it might help the players if TT was in the dugout from kick-off.

Only 2 (league) games in so far though. I'm hoping we'll see less Rochdale and more Charlton. I had a look at the fixtures list earlier though and there's not many 'easy' games coming up.

Well, if you think that and if the players think that it's hardly surprising we've just been tonked by a non league team and another with 10 players missing.

We can rule out complacency then.

Which is definitely the root of the problem. We'll be in the playoffs by Christmas.  ;)

I just saw the goals on SSN. The first three all came from crosses into the box that nobody dealt with at all.

And Norris just scored a hattrick for me on FM17.

What a world we live in eh

Just came on to post the same thing. Terrible defending.

I will be truely amazed if this team stays up.
Can't defend and can't score, recipe for relegation.

Its all down to shit recruitment and a piss poor budget really. We got lucky last season with Ajose's goals but this time we dont have the firepower to keep us up.

;D

Decent day out apart from the football.
Performance today was worse than Scunthorpe.

As it stands can't see how things can be turned around.

It's not an inevitability yet, it's possible we might squeak 19th/20th, with some shrewd recruitment in January, plus there are other basket case candidates. We should pretty much know by the end of January. That's when you can start planning for visits to Accrington and Cheltnum.

Just home. That was fucking shit. As soon Rochdale scored the 2nd, we crumbled and they should have won 5/6 by the end. It's pathetic how mentally weak every player is in that squad. Defensively we are a complete shambles, it is so easy to score or even just get a corner against us. Rochdale were able to just run through about 3/4 of our players on a couple of occasions. The atmosphere was actually relatively positive until the 3rd went in. Branco came over and had a conversation with an unhappy fan at the end, fair play for coming over but I personally don't give a shit whether you apologise or not. Show me on the fucking pitch. We need a leader in defence and we need a horrible bastard in the centre of midfield who doesn't take any shit.

I feel the same way about this lot that I did when we relegated last time - Some decent players in the squad and we can turn it around with some decent results and good signings in Jan. I'm worried.

Vigs - Did nothing wrong, made a few good saves.

Furlong - Poor, let Rochdale's left side get too many crosses in. Pushed of the ball too easy.
Branco - Actually didn't do too much wrong, none of the goals were his fault, best of the back 4 imo.
Jones - Didn't get enough of the ball for Rochdale's 3rd(?), doesn't look convincing.
Boo - FUCKING USELESS. Lost every 50/50, kept letting the fucking ball bounce, 4th goal was a joke. Worst player on the pitch.

Barry - Considering we had 2 RB's on, offered Furlong no protection and nothing going forward. Lost his man for the 1st
Smith - Ran around a lot, not too much quality on display today.
Rodgers - Didn't do anything majorly wrong, average display.
Doughty - He is our best player, been disappointed recently. A few good touches but went missing for large periods.
Goddard - Frustrating. Worked himself into a few good positions in the first half, final ball let him down.

Obika - Great to see him back, bit rusty but looks a much better option than Norris/Delf.

thanks for the write up, I think. always good to hear from people who were there. mad bastards!

I agree with this bit

BOO is fucking dreadful. Surely TS has realised this by now.

Agreed, he should've been shown the door after the laughing gas incident. We're a shambles at the moment. I can see dropping down a league if we're not careful.

I just don't know what else to say that isn't the same as everyone else.

The squad has potential but they're crying out for a few experienced heads.

As I said Reg.
Can't defend. Can't score. Mentally weak.
Got relegation written all over it.

Won't even have the funds/time/ability to have a major overhaul in January and that doesn't even take into account actually attracting players.

Reckon Sherwood could still do a job in the middle of the park?

As a psychologist (yes I mentioned it again - if that annoys you I'm sorry, but deal with it) I am very much of the opinion these problems go a lot deeper than an individual feeling the players just can't be bothered. But:

1.) Fans have been calling out for this amazing, experienced defender without naming names, other than Al-Abd.l, for a long time. Where is this player going to come from?

2.) No one moaned about the model when Pritchard/Gladwin/Luongo were here. It's clearly not worked this season, but the plan was clearly the same. Who should we have signed?

3.) We've now got a squad who are if anything, terrified. Are there youth teamers who deserve a run out?

A lot of people have problems with experts like psychologists Ells. Consider Clement Freud, grandson of daddy of the ology Sigmund, elected MP for Horlock's lot, but posthumously flagged up as a paedo.

1) Not our problem, it's up to the DoF to identify this player and get him in. We just need to go to games.

2) The plan didn't work last season, enough evidence to suggest that some lessons might have been learned if we were to progress.

3) Terrified  :hmmm: might be a bit strong. These are young lads, who even at STFC will be banking money well beyond the ability of their peers. Jordan Young?

No wonder Russell Slade was sacked after losing to us..

Don't agree with the budget comment. Out of interest what do you think it is?

The budget is quite reasonable. What's been invested in terms of transfer fees is actually quite high,there's not many teams spending 500k+ in this league.

Surely it's self-evident that the overriding cause of the problem is the quality of the players compared to the Luongo side.

We spent decent money on him, Byrne, Smith, Obika etc yet, in comparison, we've recruited from the bargain bucket - young cast-offs, those that have lost their way and lower quality loans.

If we actually did pay £400,000 for Vigs, which most people doubt, it shows the folly of spending such a large chunk of your budget on a keeper at this level.

That's very true. Vigs was 400k, Obika 200k, Goddard 150k, Norris 150k & Stewart 50k (these are all reported fees) so that's £950k spent on players. Although I'd like to know when LP mentioned about increasing the budget by 500k whether he meant on transfer fees or wages because there's very little evidence to suggest that the players we signed during the summer would be commanding this sort of amount through wages. He must have meant transfer fees surely??

With undisclosed fees, percentage of next sale clauses and various performance/appearence clauses, not to mention how much is paid upfront/installments...no one has a clue what we've spent on players or recieved for players.

For example...Vigs, 400k could be have been a lump sum paid upfront, so actually 400k or we could have paid £1,000 upfront and the other 399k could be based on him winning the World Cup, producing a Hollywood blockbuster and Aliens landing in Niger....

no, they were undisclosed. 400k could mean ' up to' over 'n years/appearances/caps', or not.

so far the model has only worked off the back of a deal with Sherwood for some v spurs players. well in my eyes anyway.

 'worked' could also mean staying up, and to that definition  I suppose it hasn't failed yet. but that's not progress most fans would enjoy

BOO is an interesting one. Widely acknowledged as having his best game for us against Charlton then very poor yesterday and giving away a penalty in almost comical fashion.

He clearly has some ability and can get a good cross in without necessarily having to beat his opponent, which under normal circumstances is a commodity that should add some value.

During the first Eastleigh game, Williams could clearly be heard encouraging BOO to take his man on.
I think it's a confidence issue, maybe afraid of stick from the crowd and so looks to play safe, don't know.

Has he improved significantly since last season? Haven't seen much evidence of it.
The supposedly top of the range coaching of these players doesn't look to be enough on it's own at the moment.
Williams and mainly Sherwood have to somehow get inside these players heads to get the best out of them.
Yesterday there was no lack of individual effort but something is lacking in terms of overall team play.

Out of interest, was the previous Rochdale game in the League? Seems weird to have played them twice, before we've played everyone once?..

I have been of the opinion that, overall, the players should be good enough to keep us up - recent performances have tempered my view somewhat.

What is painfully obvious is that whatever the merits of the players, the organisation of the team as a whole is a shambles. I can see no evidence of Williams being a turd polisher extraordinaire, let alone setting up the team.

This is where, hopefully, Sherwood makes a difference. But if he is to remain at the club for a significant amount of time and not just a short stop-gap to help out a mate, then it makes no sense to retain Williams.

Maybe he's here just to mentor the golden child but it is a strange scenario for sure.

Yes it was and it does seem strange. We've played them twice in a month. I can only remember this happening because of postponements not the fixture list.

Historically the fixture list would always throw up some anomalies. It's never been like in Spain, where you play all the other teams once, then start again in repeat order.

Around 1.5 million. Thats what it was last season. If it's higher than that with the dross we have signed then thats even worse.

1. Thats their job isn't it!? We as fans just identify issues, in this case something you can see from space.
If the club needs advice on sales in the food industry, I'm your man!!

2. The signings are now proven not to have been good enough. Again, how is this our job to decide!?

3. Experience steadys the ship and provides leadership.
     That costs and cannot be sold at a profit won't happen.

It would be a long shot for this model to succeed in promotion.
You have to get used to staying up and selling players....that's the long and short of it.
The staying up bit isn't looking likely at this stage and fuck knows who he can sell! Vigs!?
Sustainable? Yes but that's the only silver lining but with gates nose diving and even hardcore fucking it all off, what would a plan for league 2 look like!?
It makes more depressed than I already am.
January will see what Power is made of.

I think it was about 1979, we played oxford home and away in two weeks. Cant remember why. But we did the double over them.

Yes..... :)  may have been postponements the winter of 78/79 was quite harsh by British standards.  Loved that side, would have fancied it to have won the PO's, if they'd existed also would have gone up under 3 points for a win.

The contrast in quality between the likes of Kammy, Ray McHale, Roy Carter, Animal Williams, Ian Miller, Mayes and Rowland, Steve Aizlewood, and what we've got now is brutally stark.

Still my favourite Swindon team ever. And yes the winter of 78/79 was very harsh, I remember 10 foot snow drifts all through December.

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twoother/twocontent.aspx?id=1625&type=bg

Lloyd Jones looks like he struggles in the air when up against a physical player.  Not a great characteristic when you play in League One.  Probably looks ok in the U23 League when very few crosses get lashed in to a big brute up-front.

Thanks for making me even more depressed discussing the great late 70's.
This club at the moment is slowly draining the energy out of me.

Can't believe you mentioned Sid at Kettering, not seen him for ages.
Thought it was a poker cue he got hit with.
I got the blue ball off the shoulder :)
Even Chalkie mentions Boreham Wood away......the train station after the game to this day can't believe anyone was not killed.

Anyway it's stale, we have a poor squad and January needs to come sooner.
Thankfully can't do far away midweek away games thus luckily I get out of Southend.

Carter, McHale, Rowland, Animal, Windy Miller, Mayes and even Jimmy off his line Allen........how the mighty have fallen.

Interesting. Didn't realise it rated so highly on 20th Century winter scales.  I had a vague memory of getting involved with a very fit bird at the time, and it always seemed to be freezing, or snow bound when we went places.

Are there youth teamers who deserve a run out?

Having watched the yoofs just about beat AFC Sudbury I have to say I wasn't overly encouraged about our future prospects. Generally speaking Sudbury looked more physical and determined than our U18s much as Eastleigh were v the First Team.

Twine has been getting some goals and got two more to get us through yesterday but looks very slight at the moment. However clearly knows where the goal is as 2 very decent finishes.

Jordan Young started up top with him, missed a sitter in the 2nd minute and slightly disappointed throughout. Some nice touches but to me at least gave off the impression that he felt youth team games were slightly beneath him now. Picked up a knock in extra time and might as well not have been on the pitch for all he contributed in the last 15 minutes.

Other than them Frimpong at Centre half was man of the match with a pretty rugged display and he also scored the opening goal. Not too many there that looked particularly like they would progress through to a pro deal.

Lowlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9a5sI0Ctic&feature=em-u

The worrying thing is the simplicity of all their goals, yeah the 4th is shitty/should never have happened.

I was stood in the clubhouse at Kettering where Sid was playing pool and there was a scuffle and I had my back to it but I know knives were flashed around by Cobblers fans and a pool cue was swinging and I saw Sid with his eye bleeding,

Last thing I heard about Sid was getting banned for attacking the ref or linesman on the pitch around the mid to late 90s. Don't remember who it was against, I worked with Sid back in 82-83 at the BR rail works apprentice training school.

He has a tremendous capability to lose his man at dead ball situations. No physical presence. Don't rate him but to be fair to the lad when he signed for us on loan he probably didnt think he was entering the twilight zone.

You didn't get the mail about all the Ages groups playing the same way then.

Lowlights....Jeeesh..

That fourth goal was schoolboy stuff.

Losing...playing shit...didn't get a decision...lash out.

Should be dropped for that...

Our "highlight" seemed to be a complete air shot by Rodgers.We are becoming good at those lately

we need "battlers"

Jesus christ. What was BOO trying to do with the 4th?

As compared to bottlers!

Yeah it is worse then, as its actually 1.9 million Power stated on the radio, took us into mid table on wage budget.

  It's interesting that Dale could be without so many first picks and yet still field a team with a balance of youth and experience. Fellas like Keith Keane and Jim McNulty 550 league games between them.  Not a fee paid and a good number of kids picked up on a free, or through their yoofs.

 Power clearly thought an old hand was necessary, when Darren Ward was earmarked as the experience on the pitch, only for him to struggle a bit with the pace, got replaced by albeit a very good kid in Stephens, so I think it was decided we could get away with it. Nathan being put into the role.

 It seems it's Williams who thinks we can get away without experience.  In essence then Sherwood has to make a couple of shrewd signings as early in Jan as possible, otherwise can only see Div 4 next season.

A goalscorer wouldn't go amiss . . .

. . . And a toughie in midfield - too many namby pambies

Unless we can offload Kasim and/or Obika I can't see Power funding them. Be more hit and hope types.

If that is the case then I just simply don't believe it. Who have we signed that would command the type of wage that would justify a 400k increase on the wage bill. Plus we lost Ajose who would been one of our higher earners last season so you'd need to account for replacing his wage before you even go onto the increase!!

If that is the case then I just simply don't believe it. Who have we signed that would command the type of wage that would justify a 400k increase on the wage bill. Plus we lost Ajose who would been one of our higher earners last season so you'd need to account for replacing his wage before you even go onto the increase!!

I think the "in" phrase - post-truth - can be applied to public utterings about our budget and transfer fees paid. Truth is, nobody knows except Power and a few others.

I'd be amazed if we paid the reported fees for Vigs, Norris or Goddard. Far more likely to be a deal structured in such a way that we only pay those fees should we sell the players for big amounts and/or they meet certain targets, which would mean they had performed exceptionally.

Yep, biggest January coming up for the club in years. If there's a failure to acquire as least 3 experienced heads, I can only see relegation and a club heading out of the football league. After losing to all the promoted sides bar Wimbledon and failing to beat the likes of Exeter and Eastleigh, in my eyes it's clear this lot would likely get decimated a league below

Reason I state a possible further relegation is because the crowds are already falling sharply and if as Power so-says the budget heavily relies on gates, we could easily be in the 4k territory next season in League Two. Couple this we either a load of youths and left over dross from this season and another rebuild in the summer, it could well be Conference here we come.

Still there is a lot of points up for grabs and time to put this right, we may also be fortunate in that there are other teams equally as poor at a greater number than in previous seasons.

That's definitely the case. The fees I posted earlier are only reported fees & I've gone from memory so may not be totally accurate but ultimately as Flashheart said LP has spent in the market, considerably more than other L1 sides. Out of interest I wonder how many other sides have paid transfer fees for players. 5 of our current squad cost a fee! It's the wages bit that doesn't add up to me!!

Power should put the club up for sale. If no one comes forward then fine we have to stick with it however bad.


We are heading backwards- gates going down by 1k last 2 seasons. This just isn't sustainable.

Agree with a double relegation possible- his model is even more iikely to bust in league 2 as more physical down there- kids just will find it even harder- that's if any PL will loan a league 2 club players probably not.

Sherwood needs to man up and face the media after a defeat if he picks the side- not send out Williams.

If the budget follows the income it wont really matter to Power what league we're in. In fact, if he thinks we'll get better gates doing well in L2 than forever struggling in League 1 it might be preferable to him.

The Swindon Way, whatever that is, needs consigning to the dustbin. Pragmatism is the order of the day in the lower leagues and the coaches/coaching needs to reflect that.

Maybe Williams does not want experienced players. Maybe he just wants players who will look up to him and his coaching methods not some old stager who has been around the block a few times and may call out that it is a load of bollox. Maybe, in Williams opinion, it would poison the well. Has he any experience of managing / coaching experienced players?

It's entirely conceivable, however I'm sure I've heard it said, perhaps by Luke, that you have to pay for experience and we're not prepared to do that.

15th October - sorry for the link but it was the first google hit

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14803539.Nurturers_Town_to_stick_with_their_youthful_approach/


I know we aren't talking about a "squad full", but I'm sure he made similar noises to fans phone in questions on similar 'few older heads' questions.

I also think that this no longer holds true. At least I hope so!

if we did get relegated, would  we do any better :hmmm:

Not correct:

(http://i.imgur.com/FVfc4BY.png)

Its on course then...

Dunno how relevant the figures are for this season but the decline isn't as terminal as people keep banging on about.

No I suppose not, I was surprised how well they stood up last year to be honest.

I'm fed up and won't be returning for a while.

This Tim Sherwood episode is the final straw for me.  If he's taken this DOF role as he can't take a proper manager role as he's still on the Aston Villa payroll that's completely unacceptable to me.

He's admitted he picks the team, and the tactics and style of play, also has been pictured on the training ground so why isn't he fronting up and taking the press conferences.  He needs to find his bollocks. The lack of accountability is frightening. 

All very nice and well people on twitter saying Power should sell the club and we'd have a load of people wanting to buy. Well the club was debt free and a relatively attractive proposition 4 years ago and we finished up with Jed.  Who'd want it having to pay however much he has borrowed for a club dying on its arse.

Andy Dunn was right with what he wrote in his column this morning in one of the red tops.

What did he write?

Sorry to lose you for a bit FCB. It's hard to justify the cash to go to the game. If you aren't a season ticket holder I can see there are other priorities this close to Christmas.

But football fortunes can change quite quickly. I can't see how either, but they can. I  hope you are back when they do (you glory hunter ;) l

oh and I got the impression we got Jed because Black wanted out by a specific date and to hell with who he sold to. it's not a forgone conclusion he was the only interested party.

Jed was the only interested party but still the club was a more attractive proposition then than it is now.  Any investor would have to put a serious amount of money in which limits our attractiveness for me. If as LP says he has borrowed £6m he'll want that back plus a little profit and the new owner would be lumbered with a club with no training facility also.

I have a ST and have paid up but I just don't have any interest in it all. I'm bored and disillusioned.

Andy Dunn called us a basket case of a club.

oh.. ..

and yes I suppose we are

Have you a link to that article?

I don't. There was one on the Facebook page earlier.  Just a few lines in the corner of his column.

Our average attendance  this season is well down, according to Sky stats we are currently averaging 6456 nearly a 1000 down on last season, in fact if you take out the Rovers and Coventry crowds it would be much lower

6,868. I literally posted the figures two posts before the one you quoted.

And yes, if you choose to ignore certain attendances it can make the average higher or lower.

I'm not arguing the fact that attendances are declining but Bart saying we'd lost 2,000 fans since 2014 is just nonsense.

His wording was ambiguous. I read it as we've lost 1k over the last two season, which is correct. 7900 down to 6900 - give or take a few people.

It's pointless anyway.
People will come out to watch a winning team. FACT!
Style of play and everything else is pointless.
Win and they will come, lose and they will leave.

There's some great Matchday Thread Bingo in here. Experience, "battlers", too many "namby pambys"... What a lot of nonsense. The players aren't good enough, the tactics aren't working and they're shitting themselves.

It's nothing to do with age, or the ability to "battle" or run around and kick people. Branco is one of our most experienced players, and our biggest "battler" and he's a horror show, without whom we'd by far better off. El Abd was heralded as exactly what we needed last year but was, in fact, utter dross.

But I guess he kicked it far and shouted at people, which is what we need, apparently.

You missed out "passion". We definitely need more passion. That should be the club motto "Passion not Passing". It should be printed on the shirts, underneath the word "FORWARD!!!" in massive capital letters

Being a player of limited ability doesn't stop them putting in some effort, making a tackle, or being organised.

A half decent coach should be able to make their team hard to beat at the very least - even if they end up losing.

Shrews went 2-0 down and had a player sent off and managed to only lose 2-1. Gills lost to Brackley in the week yet won away at Walsall Saturday.

We got thrashed by Rochdale reserves. It's not entirely down to the players.

If you're responding to PP, he didn't say it was entirely down to the players, he also included "the tactics aren't working".

Well, whatever the reasons,we are where we are - staring down the barrel. Ultimately, the blame lies with Power.

Either the budget is such that these are only the kind of players we can attract, or

The budget is fine and he's recruited a pile of shite

Ally that to an novice manager and, voila, here we are.

Don't know how long Williams will put up with being in the firing line now Sherwood is responsible for everything.

There's two things that stand out for me, and have done all season.

1) They aren't fit
2) They aren't disciplined

We can't play two games in a week, it's obvious. Not to mention the fact we pick up a shit load of injuries and did last season too. Sometimes it's bad luck but if something keeps happening there is a reason. The amount of bookings we've had, penalties we've conceded and the fact their heads drop as soon as we concede one points to a complete lack of discipline.

This is down to Williams. He's their mate, they all love him, which is fine but we need a 'bad cop' and that now HAS to be Sherwood.

I think we have enough in our squad to be midtable. Improvements have to be made on the two points I've stated above IMO, and we need a plan B when things don't work. I'd sooner the players were fit and organised than 'passionate'.

I know Williams has always been good cop, arm round the lads etc and Embleton has always been the "bad cop" in the relationship, giving bollockings etc, I think the players dont respect Embleton as much as they would Sherwood, you don't take a bollocking from someone you don't think should be giving it.

Its time that Sherwood did that, as you say, and take responsibilty for when shit happens, as it did Saturday.

The barrel looms up again tomorrow..... (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/42_cm_Gamma_M%C3%B6rser_AWM_A02560.jpeg/250px-42_cm_Gamma_M%C3%B6rser_AWM_A02560.jpeg)   Big Bertha style.

We've conceded 4 or more on the road in successive games in Div 3, you have to go back to the tail end of 76/77 for the last time that happened.

Then we had the makings of a decent side, had a good cup run famously thrashing Fulham, and were always mid table, drawing  a few too many 2-2.  For some reason the wheels fell off for about 3 weeks in April, losing 5-0 at Palace and 4-2 at York. The Palace defeat understandable as they went up and were strong at home. York less so, but we had put 5 on them 3 weeks earlier. The wheels were quickly put back on again, gaining a point at promotion seeking Rotherham.

I would like to think there will be a collective rolling up of sleeves tomorrow, and a desire to show some pride and professionalism. Whilst not expecting any points, think it is important, we at least see or hear about some semblance of effort, and not another supine capitulation.

I can't see how, after 20 or so games, the players are unfit. Granted, those coming back from a layoff may not be 100% i.e. Obika, but the bulk of the squad have played enough to get fit.

Appearing to be unfit is more a case of heads dropping and, consequently, a loss of desire. I think the fact that when we have won it has been to nil, so we can't be hanging on too badly at the end of games.

It's application, or lack of, an all too ready acceptance of defeat once we go behind and being bereft of confidence. Unfortunately, I'm not sure those things can be 'taught'. You've either got it or not.

You can, there's plenty of techniques for handling mood-management/mindset in sport. Unfortunately it can be a little circular, in that the the player has to be willing to engage with it and the individuals who lack confidence in themselves quite often also don't believe they can improve that situation so effectively end up sabotaging themselves and then say "Oh, all that psych mumob-jumbo doesn't work". And then continue to spiral downwards.

Mmmm. Not convinced by the charlatans using psycho babble.

Too much talking, not enough doing, for me.

Point 3 is that a number of them aren't good enough. We shouldn't overlook this fact. BOO & Rodgers wouldn't get into any other side in the league IMO. I absolutely shit myself everytime I see them named in the same starting line up as unless they have their 1 good game in 6 it's effectively like playing with 9.

October Williams was talking about players not being match fit, this is down to the coaching/management staff who despite a pre season, and 2 months into the season have failed to get the team upto the required fitness

I agree with Tails 100%, and partially FreddySTFC.

Because you've experienced working with a sports psychologist, right?

But thanks for proving the point about circularity being a problem with individuals with negative mindsets

Bloody hell, I've just seen the highlights, and if I was the manager I'd be either murderous or suicidal. You really would be hard-pressed to find a more spineless response, with everyone back round our box, to four harmless balls/runs into the box. BOO and Barry looked particularly shite. Edit: On a second look, you can add RRB and Jones into that. Beaten for every crucial header. And as for Rodgers' air-shot... :crash:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9a5sI0Ctic

Bugger me, respect to anyone who's still forking out to watch that.

No. I just think it's a crock. And wtf is circularity? Proved my point about psycho babble.

Always loooks the same to me. Not strong enough a yard off the pace and lacking confidence.
It's like watching a kids u15s team taking on the age group 2 years older. The opposition that bit sharper, confident and better organised.
I read people dismissive of it not being down to age, aggression and experience etc. I beg to differ.
You can have inexperienced players in a side. Just not in a struggling side all at the same time. I am in no doubt that the player's labled as shit would grow in a better team. Not all of them,but the majority.

Millions is spent on Sports Psychology. Somebody should let them know they've been wasting their time all along.

Just goes to prove. There's one born every minute.

Up there with Eileen Drury  - or whatever her name is.

So then you're single-handedly debunking an established branch of science? Do you stop at sport's psychology or are all other branches of psychology psycho babble as well?

I suppose that Nobel prize will be on its way before long.

To be fair Sports psychology is used a hell of a lot more for individuals that team sports

Please note that I actually said that I think it's a crock - alongside astrology. Not sure if it's actually seen as a science, though as its results, whatever they may be, are not predictable.

 Is psychology a science?  Discuss

Wow.

I reckon he's baiting someone with that one

It's an ology....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC_-r-J69qA

Let's hope so, for his sake.

It was in the quote you were apparently replying to but clearly didn't read:
"Unfortunately it can be a little circular, in that the the player has to be willing to engage with it and the individuals who lack confidence in themselves quite often also don't believe they can improve that situation so effectively end up sabotaging themselves and then say "Oh, all that psych mumob-jumbo doesn't work". "
Like I say, thanks for proving my point. And that you also aren't actually reading/thinking about your responses, just knee-jerking (off).

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/27/study-delivers-bleak-verdict-on-validity-of-psychology-experiment-results

So you don't understand how science works either then?

Reading Williams quotes (I know its the adver) it sounds to me as if he is delivering the team talks not Sherwood, I would certainly like Sherwood to come out and discuss pre and post match if this is really his team now and Williams is part of the backroom team.  I think it's Timmy Time.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/14916832.Williams___We_had_words_/

Tbf, he's apparently struggling with reading, let's take it one step at a time, eh?

Audrey raises a valid point and backs it up with a certain amount of evidence...all you can do in a debate. Although the scientific method can be applied to psychology, it isn't a pure science, rather as WB says an ology.

Here's a proper science....

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/09/article-2624194-1DB2D5ED00000578-113_634x387.jpg)

He really hasn't - he's asserted that he thinks something is a "crock" on the basis of absolutely fuck all and pasted a URL from the Internet that is in roughly the same area. He may as well have said he doesn't believe in electricity and pasted a URL about npower's billing problems.

Psychology is the study of the human mind. What we think, the way we act, why we think and act that way. That it is a study automatically makes it a science but that is exactly what science is.

The examples stated above only go on to cement further that it is, indeed, a science. Previous findings have been investigated and some have found to be faulty. They will now be discarded or improved. That is how science works. Science isn't about getting everything right. It's about investigation to find out what we can. Granted, there's a fuck ton of stuff we don't know about but there's also a lot of stuff that we do know about. Go into any major supermarket and you will be surrounded be examples of psychology at work and they use these.... because they work.

There are certain reasons why we think and act the way we do. Our tendency to recognise agency. The way we are more likely to focus on the bad than the good.... and so on. Of course, these are rudimentary basics and there are much, much more nuanced parts of our psyche that are a lot harder to understand.

Raising some examples of when it didn't work in attempt to debunk it as a whole just shows a lack of understanding of how the scientific method works. Newton's theory of gravity was found to be faulty, does that mean we shouldn't trust scientific investigation? Of course not. It's all about trying to understand everything the best we possibly can and improving on what we already know as much as possible. It's not about getting it right every time. It never has been.

Agreed Tails.I was ridiculed a few pages back for putting the blame on Williams.Whether he is manager in name or not,the frailties of the players are now deep seated.

My main concern would be that someone who doesn't recognise psychology could be pretty vulnerable to exploitation by someone who does.

Have I just summed up 21st Century politics?  :sherlock:

Well he didn't he said... Mmmm. Not convinced by the charlatans using psycho babble. In regards to sports. Many will agree with him,fair enough.

Quoted verbatim:

Woah hang on, he has quoted the Guardian which for a large proportion of the population is more believable than science..... although I am surprised they haven't referred to it as pyscholgoy?

Psychology intrigues me (I am a bit of a people watcher - although I don't mean women's bedrooms with binoculars), having lived with a couple of psychology students whilst at university its serious stuff. However amusingly, of the psychologists that I know, one would expect them to have some idea of emotion and empathy knowing how the mind works and how different people react, however they seem completely unable to empathise with people or accept that people just cannot 'get over it', possibly you become immune to it!

He says i am not sure doesn't he? and he thinks it is a crock. Maybe i am being thick but not sure it warrants the constant belittling every single post he makes gets

Thanks for clarifying that.....  ;) :D


Having spent way too much time over the last 12 months having my brain scanned, tested and god knows what else and also spending a fair time in the company of neurologists, there is a fucking huge amount that we do not know about the mechanics of the brain and the way that it affects peoples ability to deal with and react to things!  :hmmm:

Psychology is a study.....to which the scientific method can be applied. However you can study te works of William Shakespeare and not be involved in a science.

An apple dropping form a tree can be observed as many times as you like it will always fall down.....go anywhere you like on the planet, the same will happen.

Stick you're products on a shelf in a certain way in Tesco and some people might purchase, many won't and those same people might not the next day.   To get scientific rigour here, you would need to control a massive number of variables to  establish it as a fact.

Belittled? I'm just explaining to him how he's wrong.

Was referring to Paul D saying he can't read etc

Again, science isn't about getting it exactly right. It's about doing the best it can and continually trying to improve on that.

I suppose that in my ignorant fashion I was trying to say that psychology cannot sit beside, say, chemistry or physics, as its results are not predictable nor repeatable.

If just studying something makes it a science, fair enough.

I tug at my belittled forelock

That was because he clearly hadn't read the post he was apparently disagreeing with. If you're going to disagree with something, at least make sure you actually read what you're saying is wrong. FFS, mollycoddling much?

But to re-unite everyone, whatever the merits of psychology, sports science or whatever, one thing we can all agree on - the team is a crock. <Group Hug>

It's been more interesting than an average match day thread.

Not Mollycuddling just seems if someones view differs you are quick to take a certain tone with them. Bit like the mollycuddling comment actually :-)

Trouble with that is there will be another one tomorrow going over the same old bollocks again - less the psychology bit hopefully.

The philosophy of science is indeed a fascinating area to get one's head round. But I'm with DRS, I see nothing in Audrey's musings that lie outside of what can be found in serious academic thought on the subject.

Now consider this, analysis of vision and perception has shown a small but measurable improvement in observation by peripheral vision if yellow is worn.....high vis jackets etc.  Applying such marginal gains evidence to our current lot might make Luke think we should wear all yellow kit a bit like Villareal, in order to speed up the passing in tight areas. Would this be a good use of sports science  :hmmm:

I disagree with everyone

Well, no. If he had a different point of view, argued it and backed it up, then fair enough. But he didn't - he didn't read what he was disagreeing with, and just asserted a load of bollocks as fact on the basis of nothing. Talk shite, you're going to get the piss taken.

And it's mollycoddling :)

Can we argue about whether mollycoddling is a science or not?

Depends on what Molly looks like I suppose. 

I agree.

I had coddled eggs for tea the other day

We all know that this is the most likely outcome:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11764/10666215/watch-peterborough-player-mistakes-steward-for-team-mate-and-passes-to-him

In the interests of science Ron, can you tell us a bit more about coddled eggs?  They seem to have passed the Smeeton household by.

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

 The pass though actually found the steward....

Could have done with a bit more pace on it though, the steward had to come back up the touchline, taking the impetus out of the attack.

At any point, has anyone heard why Sherwood decided on such a strange team selection? To drop Murray and play Barry in a position where he looks even less suited than fullback and to put Rodgers in as DM and Smith at 8 ahead of Thomas?

I don't think Murray or Thomas are fit enough for 2 games in a week, my guess is they play tomorrow.

Nobody hears from him much. Beginning to feel sorry for Williams taking all the flak for things which now he is not responsible for.

Be interesting to see who appears on the next Question Time.

has anybody heard from Sherwood? I think he's gone Milan (Misun).

I like Reg's theory over fitness. The alternative, that he thinks Barry is better, doesn't bare thinking about

Murray and Thomas have been shit this season. Ok in 5 minute bursts but unable to last 90 and anonymous for most. I've seen nothing from either to suggest they are better than Barry or Rogers. All have been shit this season. Barry was decent last season going forward. It says a lot when Rogers is no more or less shit than most of the others.

Of course not. That's one of the plus sides of his DoF title.

Pah, I thought he was in charge of everything. A hands on DoF (manager in all but name).

What we have is a sham appointment right now.

Murray, Thomas and Delf are similar insofar as they were quite highly rated at an early age, have since lost their way and ended up at STFC. Murray has hardly played much football in 2 years, you can see something there, but as you say unable to do over 90 mins. You can see why Thomas attracted Liverpool, looks the part but flatters to deceive. Delf is supposed to be a striker but just doesn't score, could it yet happen for him? Doubtful. It wouldn't matter so much if someone else was scoring. I said at the start of the season I'd be amazed if Norris, Delf and Hylton got 10 between them...

Murray and Thomas show more promise than Rogers but based on actual performances there's not much between them.

Wow, that escalated quickly. A lot of shit about psychology to wade through.

But worth it for this


Good work Batch.

ahh you have your own teef sir so you've never had them, very lightly steamed or baked in a ramekin and then served with spinach, roast garlic and shallots maybe a bit of pancetta thrown in if you're hungry.

A middle class thing then.....no wonder it passed me by.

The mechanical study of the brain has nothing to do with psychology. That would be neurology.

Its all phrenology to me

There are links, I have had all manner of conversations with consultants regarding the manner in which epilepsy can lead to psychological changes and how to deal with them. I have drawn my own theories on the matter.

This is true. I've studied neuroscience and neuropsychology, there are things like performing EEGs I know how to do that one could argue are solely about brain functioning.

EEG's are great fun, sitting there for an hour while someone tries to encourage you to have a seizure.... makes a right mess of your hair as well!

By way of encouragement, do they show replays of STFC v Eastleigh, Scunny, Rochdale etc?

Not my hair...unless they were chest electrodes!

ECG's are buggers for that, ripping the hair off your chest when you remove them, I got sent home from A&E with one attached which we had missed, I found it when I rolled over in bed about 6 hours later!

Oh I know that one! almost every time I have come home from an operation (of which I have had 6 this year and the next one next week) there is always a stray pad stuck to my rather hairy torso!

Mind you they never normally stick to me but in surgery they must use an extra strong adhesive, and its almost always under the armpit they forget them!

They probably just don't want to go near your armpit again JJ

I think the A&E ones must be the same it was like they were adhered with epoxy!

They affix the EEG things with a mixture of flour and water in your hair, which then dries and leaves it like straw, after the last one I had to walk home from the hospital with my hair like the Doc's from Back to the Future!

No Reg sadly there are no highlights of Towns regular capitulations to stress the brain, they just strobe lights in your eyes for 45 mins, strange really as despite the warning on TV all the time flashing lights actually invoke seizures in a very very small number of people!

You are probably right!

Oh god I've had numerous ECGs lately and without fail there's always one still stuck to me hours later. It's some sort of witchcraft.

Although at least I don't have the hair ripping problem :D

I'm sorry you've all been through so much nastiness!