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Thinking about the fact we've been out of the top two leagues for some time now, we seem to have settled in league one.

Are we the Oldham of the south?

oldham havent beeen relegated twice in ten years

Port Vale, maybe?

Others may disagree, but I do feel that we have been punching below our weight for some time.  The clubs that we have been more or less on a par with over the last 10 to 15 years are the likes of Walsall, Port Vale, Oldham etc. - clubs with smaller core fanbases than ours.

That's not a boast.  It's irritation that we have been systematically underperforming for years.  Clubs like Peterborough and Brentford - who, traditionally, have attracted lower crowds than we have - have spent recent years oscillating between League 1 and the Championship.  We, by comparison, have spent recent years doing the same between League 1 and League 2.

At the moment: Mike Bassett's Wirral County.

20 years ago I would have said we were similar in stature to Barnsley, Charlton and Stoke, however time hasn't been kind to us. Whilst historically we have only spent 20 years or so in the top 2 divisions, I think this level is our 'natural' level. I think if we had maintained a level of investment and management the same as these clubs, and possibly with a (re)developed stadium like Reading, we could and possibly should be a middling Championship side. As it is, we are destined to marooned at this level with the occasional foray into the level above.

I fear the championship is starting to become a closed shop.

Walsall a few years ago.

While we have a slightly larger fan base, our noble quest for alleged break even means we are likely to make up the numbers long term while other clubs compete for promotion.

Exactly, we have stagnated since at least the mid 90's with a range of owners who have (in the majority of cases) gained control almost by default, say what you want about Jed but he only gained control as he was in the right place at the right time (and seemed the only option - for which we should grudgingly acknowledge him as it appears that without him Administration and possibly a big black hole beckoned), similarly Power to a degree only gained control due to the fact that Jed was inept and didn't have a pot to piss in. And now we are still not being crowded by loads of millionaires wanting to take the club over?

Its just a pity that the initial years of the Black era were marred by useless managerial appointments, I think if that had been got right and someone decent come in at the time of Malpas, we would have moved forward which would have made the club more attractive when Black decided he wanted out, the PDC era was a degree of success at huge cost and seemed to be the straw that broke the camels back with Black (which may not have happened if we had been a Championship club by then as I suspect the huge cash input would have been more palatable if the Premier League was in theory in reach??).

I have always thought of Swindon as the Crewe of the south, former railway town lost its main industry, Swindon has the advantage of location and M4 that Crewe lacks!

We're like the Tottenham of league 1. A few managerial changes, aspirations of glory then cut short by stagnant performances.... And a fourth place finish in there too.

I disagree, we're about in the right place....the clubs you mention as having a smaller fanbase than ours, it's only marginal.  What the three you quote have in common, is other larger clubs on their doorstep as direct competition, that their gates hold up so well is remarkable and to their credit. 

Our competition of course comes from the indirect TV Prem stuff, which has left us with a largely ageing and consequently diminishing hardcore.

The key question for us going forward will be the need to stabilise in Div 4. The only season where we've been around the bottom rungs of Div 4 was 83/84 and then there was no direct relegation, nevertheless both Oxford and Rovers have shown what can happen when you don't get things right.

Currently, our average of 7,268 is 38% above Walsall's, 41% more than Vale's and 56% more than Oldham's.  None of those are marginal.

It is to their credit, but also completely irrelevant to the effect that average attendances should have on the success of a football club over the long term.

Agreed.

Now you're just trolling again.  We're in a pickle, but relegation is far from inevitable - as you know.

How far is far? I reckon we're about 100metres away from inevitable relegation. Someone standing there is going to look pretty small, but it's only a quick dash to the finish line.

Hi Ben.

I'd like to Swindon Town to death a baby seal.

Marginal in the sense that it's a couple of thousand, Sheffield United's crowd last night was 17,000+, when their fans argue they probably shouldn't be in Div 3, I'm inclined to agree. Of course it doesn't give them a divine right to go up.

We also don't know how the 3 mentioned clubs are set as regards ground ownership....if they own the ground, then our extra will be offset by rent to SBC.  I know for many years Walsall would turn a small profit on the back of a giant car boot sale in the Bescot car park. Oldham are in the middle of a redevelopment of Boundary Park...sort of thing we can only dream about.

Of course relegation isn't inevitable yet, but something needs to change for the better, and it's difficult to see what that might be.

I reckon over half our first team returning may help

It may, yet we had what looked like a first 11 v Burton and that looked no nearer being anywhere near good enough.

No doubt the absences have compounded the underlying problems.

Completed for you!

Oxford.1 league cup win,one season in the top flight,constant yo-yoing between the bottom 2 divisions.similar fan base and hate our biggest rivals.

....oh and both only use 3 sides of their ground (mainly)

I wouldn't call twice in 28 years constant.

Also Oxford's yo yo hasn't come back up for 15 years.

Poetic licence!

Oldham's new stand has been funded by the Council - they purchased some land from Oldham and lent the remainder to them in return for the money being ring fenced for redevelopment of the ground.  It's taken 7 years since they pulled down the old stand.

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Port-Vale-Valiants-25-year-lease-Vale-Park-Norman/story-26695336-detail/story.html

http://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2011/mar/30/walsall-stadium-sale

Indeed. Of all the great alternative history’s of Swindon you could pen (what would have happened if Charlie hadn’t hit that bobble, what would have happened if Hoddle had stayed, what would have happened if we hadn’t been demoted in 1990, etc etc) I think one of the most compelling ones, is what would have happened if Sturrock hadn’t left when he did (within weeks of the Fitton takeover)

Yes it was far from pretty, but he’d got us out of League 2, and on the cusp of the League 1 play offs the following season when the club was a basket case without a pot to piss in.

With Black (and in those days Arbibs) cash, and the degree of calm Fitton bought, I think he could have got us into the Championship within a couple of seasons. Once there, you suspect he’d have struggled (he always did out of the lower leagues) but we’d have been in a much better position to recruit his replacement than we were in 2007/8.

Plus the CG redevelopment, oft muted but never acted on, would have been more likely with a few years of second tier football under our belt.

All speculation of course, but it does feel that the footballing fates have conspired to keep us down here over the last decade or so.

Interesting stuff....it may have taken a while, but at least Oldham have got somewhere. It was 10 years ago that Justin Tomlinson could tell the TEF this...


For some reason Mr Tomlinson seems to be more interested in Supermarine these days  ;)

PV and Saddlers stories reveal that they are similar to us, having to employ creative methods, to keep football running, which look a bit open to abuse by the unscrupulous.

Crewe at the moment.

Sell...survive....sell.....survive

I like the Oxford suggestion, but I've always compared us to Rovers.

Level 3

We're heading down at the moment but once there there is the opportunity to head back up.

Long as it's not the Brunel Rooms, decent enough in its time but then closed down, after a failed come back under dodgy new owners.

Is that place still open? I had a few messy night in there!

I'd say 80% of all lower league teams are basically the same and we sit right in the middle of that bracket.

Attendances in the low-mid 1000s, the odd season of promise, the odd disaster and a lot of dross in between with a fairly constant turnover of playing and management staff running on a tight budget.

There's absolutely nothing unique about us at all frankly.

As usual you're wrong DMR.....we're the only club to have no letters of the word mackerel in its name.

I would disagree, certain of our fans appear entirely unique... sadly.

Yep still going but pretty quiet these days.

Did the Brunel Rooms have a rotating bar/dancefloor or something? I went to a club in Swindon once but have no idea which it was as I was very pissed before we left Witney!

We've got a Rolex as our stadium clock. That makes us unique in itself.

Rotating bar, yes, a bit strange after you'd had a few. Had some good times in there.

I remember now, I put a drink down, turned round and it had bloody gone!

It was the Tuxedo Royale in Newcastle that had a rotating dancefloor, that combined with its pronounced list to starboard (being a boat) made any movement within the premises an adventure after a drink or two - I recall flattening many a group of ladies stepping off the rotating dance floor and falling over!