Thetownend.com

Have been reading a lot over several forums since Saturday about how bad the state of the County Ground has become. I know we've all got used to the ship pa system,  ropey scoreboard and sorry floodlights but I was disappointed to read about Stratton Bank. Apparently the toilets were fenced off and replaced with 4 portaloos. It's easy to laugh it off and say it's only City fans but I'd be none to happy if we were the away team in similar circumstances. It's all very well Mr Power saying the stadium is not a priority for him but sooner or later it will have to. Not just for the away fans benefits but the whole stadium. There are many reasons why attendances may be on the decline but if we are going to charge the supporters the prices we do then at least get the basic facilities in order!

I like it how it is.

In fact the only thing I'd change at the CG is putting safe standing in the Town End. Fuck all that padded seat bollocks.

The Town End and the Bank are the obvious priorities and we need to incorporate some boxes in somewhere....

Problem is it'll be between £10m and £15m for this to get a couple of decent stands and where we'd get access to that sort of money lord only knows.

Also as much as we all love them the floodlight pylons won't last forever!

Anyone complaining about portaloos for the Stratton Bank obviously hasn't used the built in toilets there, which aren't much of an improvement over pissing against a wall. And whilst I haven't used the sit down facilities there I would guess you're just shitting through a hole in the floor.

Though I'd also point out to the City fans complaining about the portaloos, that they would have been clean and smelt nice at the start of the game. Whatever happened to them after that is on them.

As I said it's not about the City fans. It's becoming a regular comment from all away fans that the facilities are poor even in The Arkells Stand. Don't get me wrong I'm not expecting Mr Power to build some sort of Stadium MK but if we do reach The Championship then bigger aattendances would be the norm. Seriously Stratton Bank needs a makeover.

Those built in loos at the back of the bank are archaic but serve purpose, piss and get the fuck out.
Perhaps they were planning to take a copy of inbreeders weekly in the shitter at half time

Wasnt there a clause in Blacks sale about ground modernisation ?
Cant see anything being done unless we get promotion and even then as a last resort

Bar the seats the TE hasnt changed since I first visited ( 70s ), bogs in there aint exactly the best

This

From speaking with a senior club official recently, there are fears the Stratton Bank will not pass its next safety inspection.

Any idea how regular these are, every off season? At least we have got the City match out of the way and ££££ from their fans.

The stand is now an eyesore and should be the first to go if redevelopment plans are ever brought to fruition. Not that I have any sympathy for the shitheads in the stand on Saturday.

If we gained promotion, I'm sure a bit of a spruce up would be on the cards.

Until then, with away teams normally bringing no more than a few hundred fans and the Bank going unused for months on end, it's not worth it.

Old grounds with poor facilities are the best grounds, fuck any sort of comfort.

I blame the sky sports generation!

If you have been going for a few years yes I agree
Its getting new fans in thats when the facilities are off putting

My pet subject!

There comes a point where the 'do nothing' option is simply no longer viable.  We are pretty much the only club to have done precisely nothing to our ground during the last 20 years - the last major work undertaken being the construction of the Don Rogers Stand (or the Intel Stand, as it was then) back in 1994.  I still think of that as the 'new' stand, and it's 20 years old now.

Sooner or later, we are just going to have to get on with it.  A substantial ground redevelopment is now so far overdue that, as others have said, it will be forced upon us before long.  I respect the owner's strategy of concentrating on the field of play and his focus on youth, but he may soon find the matter taken out of his hands.

I must have bored the regulars on here rigid about this over the years, so apologies for the repetition.  A quick search pulled up a few other comments, just for good measure...

Yea unfortunately that's the case. 

In 20 or so years time 90% of grounds in this country will conform to one of 2 or 3 generic designs and individuality will be rare

My avatar is the Intel stand under construction, when I took the pics it was on a manual wind camera  :D

One of the wurzel fans criticised the fact that the ground had pylon floodlights (outdated)  :no:  :doh:

http://www.footballgroundguide.com/swindon_town/county-ground-fans-review-5.html

If we had a ground redevelopment, I'd want the Town End is be retained and slotted into the bottom tier of a new end stand, complete with piss soaked, smoke filled bogs. It's part of football. I don't really want the same ground as everyone else. It would be like moving from an old characterful house, with a story, to a tidy, well kept, convenient new build.

That's the emotional side of me talking. Financially and strategically, we need a redeveloped ground, but what's new?

As an aside, I can imagine that there may have been a fair few City fans who, after a day on the beer, may well have wet themselves on Saturday, or worse, as there was approximately one portaloo per 750 people. Nobody deserves that, unless it was one of the Burberry-clad meatheads. That would be quite entertaining.

I remember the bogs at the back of the bank, had a bank season ticket in 93/94.

Those floodlights are iconic. They are just like the ones in Subbuteo. I can see them when walking home from work, when I'm walking the dog or playing football at the top of the Lawns,  and when I'm driving back into town from Junction 15. They're great. When the Town End eventually does go, they'll need to go with it, and it'll be a sad day...

Mr Power has been up front....he's doing nothing with the ground. Now we're out of the cups, the Bank won't be used again this season, unless we get to the PO's.  If SBC choose to close it and the TE down, we'll have 2 sides, still more than enough for most games.

In an ideal world, you'd like to think the landlord, ie SBC, might put a bit in to providing at least a decent minimum facility for visitors to our town....namely a roof and some bogs, but it still remains sadly beyond them.

I remember the excitement, when the existing bogs were built on the Bank and a block was built on the corner between the Bank and South Side.  If you were in the Shrivenham Road upper, then you had to leave the ground and go for a piss in those bogs.

Our facilities ain't great but better than some. Would like too see redevelopment in future as we could fall behind other clubs

Reg seems to have forgotten we still have to play the gills at home  ::)

My problem with the no redevelopment is the message it gives out.

Almost an admission of failure in advance.

If we have any pretensions of becoming a sustainable Championship club the 2 ends have to be replaced.

Not sure if the Bank would be allowed in the Championship - the money we would lose from that being shut would be huge

The ground is a shithole, but its our shithole and I love it. Stadium:mk looks mint and inside its nice, but it has nothing on ours. No character, no soul, no identity. Same with the Emirates, you go inside and think "wow, this is pretty" but even the County Ground in silence has more to it.

It does need to be rebuilt and I shan't be complaining when it does, but I will feel a bit of sadness when the town end and stratton bank are replaced.

Spot on.

The fact you can see the rolling Wiltshire hills either side of the DR stand. The Legends Lounge. The massive pylons. The terrible music. The terrible sound system (that is actually OK in Arkell's). I could go on. I love all of it.

I don't go in the Arkells often, but have done so, I suppose by now on a lot of times.  I do like that view, over the TE, you can see Swindon away to the Lawns and over Queen's Park.  Over the Bank, away to the Downs, and Vale of White Horse.

Spirit of place....magic. I'm glad all over that you like it.

Col U shows the danger of moving to a new stadium at our level, they've moved to the arse end of no where, there's no pubs and no soul and for what? Yes they've got new facilities, but it's horrible, and I know a lot of their fans feel the same.

Which is why, and it seems like a lifetime ago now, I counselled against the Brady, Blagrove project. Bit of a lone voice on that one, but a quintessential arse end of nowhere, one road in to industrial estate,  cramped site, wedged between the railway and M4.

It will be interesting to see what Posh are doing with their ground. Its in a great position and has some character to it.

Agreed BO,  London Road is in a great position,  10 mins hop over the bridge and you're in the town centre. Massive car park over the road too.

I think there are similarities with the CG too. Good position near to the train station, town, bars etc. So its a little run down, so what!!

I don't think anyone wants to move to a newly built stadium, but the TE and the Bank are embarrassing - even at L1 level.

Agree

I dont blame LP/ previous owners for not touching the ground, why would they?

The issue in my opinion is the council- they either need to sell up, or fund some sort of redevelopment.

From a business point of view why would you pump money into a rented site? It adds no value to the club for potential investors.

I love the CG, but I love the club more (of course the CG is part of the club, which is where it clouds many peoples judgements (mine included)) and for the club to progress its vital we open up revenue streams all year round and not just on 23 home matches, plus any home cup ties.

I would be upset if we left the CG, but unless the council sell up redevelopment is unlikely in my eyes. There is some derelict land pretty central to Swindon that could house a decent football ground- I cant see the Oasis redevelopment scheme going anywhere for example.

My own thoughts on the subject - I'd like to see a revamped Town End and Stratton Bank, and leave the Arkells for now - maybe add some boxes in the DRS (yes that again). Have something like Plymouth and redevelop the Arkells as and when needed.

I'd say redevelop the bank first. Knock it down and start again. Hopefully they wouldn't build an overly modern stand though, cause that would stand out like a sore thumb. The problem with redeveloping the Bank first would be that home fans would want to go in it. But having the away end at the side of the ground with the car park, offices and shop doesn't make sense.

The PERFECT Swindon Town redevelopment would be not to build one of the new 'modern' style stadiums but build a stadium using old style brickwork styled like an old railway building. That could look good. But I have had this idea for all of 5 minutes...

Agree.  The consensus whenever this has come up for discussion before is that the location of the County Ground is ideal.  Leave it where it is.

But in order for that to work, you do need to invest in the asset from time to time.  If you don’t, it will fall down.  As mentioned earlier in the thread, the last time any substantial capital investment was made to the ground was in 1994 (construction of the Intel/Don Rogers Stand).  Since then, we’ve given the place a lick of paint here & there and Jed may have spent a couple of grand creating a bar in the Town End.  But that’s about it.  I can't think of any other club that has done as little as we have with its ground during the last 20 years.

Someone will correct me if I’m wrong here, but while the Council owns the freehold of the County Ground, I'm fairly sure that the Club owns the ground itself.  Too often, I think the Club hides behind the Council’s ownership of the freehold as an excuse not to invest in the asset/ground itself.  The ground is the Club’s asset and, therefore, the responsibility for its upkeep lies with the Club.

You are Gary Stanley and I claim my £5.

That would probably cost a bit of money to do something different, which is why I think we'll do it on budget and get something 'normal'. There were plans many years ago to build a Preston style ground - whether that was new or redevelop the CG I don't know.

Not true.  With a long term lease, of course you would invest in the asset.  Covered some of this in my earlier post, but the Club leases only the ground that stadium stands on from the council.  It does not rent the stadium itself.  The stadium belongs to the Club.  It's the same as someone buying a flat with a 99 year lease.  You may a rent to the freeholder, but the flat itself is yours - and, therefore, your responsibility to maintain.

Unless I have all of this completely wrong...

Atm, the Tory SBC, are pretty keen to flog off any of our leisure sites to developers....either directly or by stealth.  Even the fucking allotments have been privatised...

http://www.mypatchswindon.co.uk/

so the problem is, SBC would quite happily flog the CG, but it must be for the price of a potential houses/supermarket/MacDonalds etc.....in other words way beyond our means.

The only potential prospect would be a deal whereby we get into bed with a developer, this was the sort of thing envisaged with the St Modwen deal.

I'll quite happily settle for what we've got, but stick some sort of roof and build some inside bogs on the Bank. Shouldn't cost a fortune....get some name sponsors, some fan's fundraising, club could chip in an agreed % from a player sale etc.

You are correct. The Council owns the site, the club own the structure. But this no different to an individual buying a residential house on a 100 year lease.

They will still want to fund improvements to the structure.

Surely all the Council have to do is give the club a mega long lease (or even sell the site).

Whether the club want/are able to fund development is another question

I see... :hmmm: interesting.

I maybe completely wrong, but was there some talk from the Trust about helping towards a roof on the stratton bank?

The council are not going to fund any redevelopment as there is absolutely zero benefit to them - they own the land and nothing more. The club can do what they want with the ground, such as selling it off for scrap or demolishing it come the end of the lease. Leases on flats and houses are totally different and not applicable or relevant.

As regards them selling the ground, don't they just have to get a fair market value? Which is open to interpretation, they could sell it based on the income it generates at present or have clauses for balloon payments if certain developments happen within certain periods of time. A large part of it is the councillors being dicks as they don't see any benefit to themselves in helping the club.

Not true unless the purchaser wanted to build houses/supermarket/MacDonalds etc on the site. If they plan to keep it as a sporting venue, then they have to sell it as fair market valuation of the land as is. Which is substantially less than the value of the land as commercial/residential, and as you say, given the council are currently desperate to sell off any/every asset they can, and that we've historically been less than ideal tenants, would probably be comparatively cheap.

BUT for everyone lusting after that, have a look at the many recent sorry histories of clubs who've bought their own grounds only to immediately become much more attractive to rapacious developers and lived to regret it. The council might not be brilliant landlords (about as good as we are tenants, in fact) but think what would have happened if we'd owned the ground when Jed was in charge...

It would have been redeveloped as a 35,000 all seater ground with executive facilities and a bar for each fan - Jed told me on Twitter!

At least the Trust has secured the rights that IF the ground/land comes up for sale the fans have the first refusal. I think that's how it worked anyway...

And in regards to the Council not getting any benefit in helping with developments to the ground this isn't quite true. Example: if we got into the Championship and the Stratton Bank/replacement end was in use every week that would be an extra 1,000 fans at the ground every weekend from all over the country. They'd bring their pennies and spend them in the surrounding pubs, car parks, parking fines, food venues, renting of hotels etc. all contributing to the economy of Swindon thus helping the SBC.

I think.

You have way too much faith in the council. They won't help us.

Yep. No reason to think they'd start now

lease is up soon innit?

Spot on Tails....had numerous chances and never bothered before.

Oh I know they won't help. But saying "They won't benefit at all from helping" is a bit of a stretch.

Anyone have the faintest idea -  (ideal for any City fans looking in) - what amount the site would be sold for?

Redevelopment is a pipe dream. Even the seemingly competant board of Fitton and Co couldnt get it right and they had decent financial backing.

The best route for us is to take a look at buliding a new stand much like Posh. Even Torquay managed it. We could do it for the bank and Town End. I think there is some sort of financing body in football for new stands which has been used by a few clubs.

So many other clubs have managed it.  I've never quite got my head around why it seems to be uniquely difficult in Swindon.

Lease is already up over 18 months ago.

In no particular order.....

We have always been fairly skint. Even to get to a planning application likely to be £100k plus in professional fees.
Lease term never been long enough to make bank finance that great or easy an option.
Covenant issue never really seems to have been bottomed put.
Simple fact we rarely look like filling the capacity we have now - I know this isn't a key issue as 24-7-365 revenue is the real golden goose.
Council don't seem interested.
Not sure anyone ever come up with a viable business plan.
Swindon itself seems to be lacking any strategic plan.

Etc etc

[quote author=Reg Smeeton link=topic=55353.msg1298092#msg1298092 date=1416313

I'll quite happily settle for what we've got, but stick some sort of roof and build some inside bogs on the Bank. Shouldn't cost a fortune....get some name sponsors, some fan's fundraising, club could chip in an agreed % from a player sale etc.
[/quote]

Bristol Rovers and Portsmouth did exactly that with their open terraces. I think Rovers and Bristol Rugby fans raised monies themselves for around £100k. The actual Stratton Bank terracing was rebuilt in 1988/89 so should be good for another few years. We had a capacity of nearly 19k for West Ham in 1989 just a few months before Hillsborough and then everything changed

Re:the Trust......they are indeed working on a plan with the club to put a roof on the Bank and to refurbish the 'facilities'.

I always thought it was the residents of Shriv Rd that put the mockers on that

Nope, as long as the roof is below a certain level.

The bank is quite a lot bigger than the town end. It would be great to see a roof on it.... But under no circumstances must the (worlds largest) Rolex go.

Jed missed that during his tenure

Stratton Bank with a roof would be a start in the right direction. Guess they could permanently move away fans from The Arkells Stand then. Away fans would make a bit of noise meaning home fans might wake up! Atmosphere in Town End was quality at times on Saturday.

Still the trouble of trying to get a roof on the bank is that it will take away the natural light going into the first 2 or 3 houses next to it, the club has for all the years ive been going have tried without success to put one there, but, there has always been objections from the residents in those houses. In fact the town used to own the first house next to the bank, used to house the loanees and apprentices, and even then they still could not get permission. The only way that the bank could be redeveloped is  the club buying the said houses and knocking them down, but then they would have to have some sort of  housing as part of the build.     :no:

The local council paid for Posh's new stand

what good is a redeveloped stadium to SBC?

the council would happily be rid of the football club.

That is not totally correct .When the club put forward the plans for the don rogers stand in the 90s they also included a stand of exactly the same height on the stratton bank with a capacity of 3500.This was rejected by the council because of the issue with blocking light to the houses behind.However the planning inspecter at the time did advise the club that a structure no higher than the clock (what ever height that is) would be acceptable,so in theory  a roof on stratton bank could be ok under these guidelines.The club obviously did not persue the bank redevelopment at the time.

Putting a roof on Stratton Bank is like putting a bow on a turd.

Read my previous reply below:


"And in regards to the Council not getting any benefit in helping with developments to the ground this isn't quite true. Example: if we got into the Championship and the Stratton Bank/replacement end was in use every week that would be an extra 1,000 fans at the ground every weekend from all over the country. They'd bring their pennies and spend them in the surrounding pubs, car parks, parking fines, food venues, renting of hotels etc. all contributing to the economy of Swindon thus helping the SBC."

That's all a complete assumption though.

Don't think it's that black and white mate. If there was benefit to them they would've already helped us.

Maybe the benefits it would bring are outweighed by the trouble football brings and the complaints from local residents.

I'd be interested in a bit more info on this Audrey, as my understanding is it's more or less impossible due to Government rules.

Remember when we were last at that level....Baggies fans whinging because several of them ended up in PMH, (shows how long ago it was), with hypothermia caused by exposure in open seating.

Their gripe was....it's the 20th Century FFS....we're now 15 years into the 21st (projected by promotion).

Think away fans could tolerate basic facilities if they're at least not getting wet and cold.

That's what a Posh fan stated when I asked him if McAnthony had spent the money from player sales on the new stand.

He should know, I suppose

Fair enough, but think I'd need a bit more evidence than that  :sherlock:  you've just got to read some of the crap that our fans post to know they're not the most reliable source.

Maybe this, Reg.

http://www.theposh.com/news/article/20130801-councillors-approve-additional-investment-960160.aspx

Interesting....so it seems that the "community" aspect is the key....presumably the Council can justify building the skills centre which is presumably theirs, also mention of a nearby housing development, so maybe Section 106 money.

Imagine hearing such words as....


Nah, nor can I.

Councillors have come and gone over the years - surely some of them must have had a bit of interest in the CG as a community asset.

Dont mention SB and turds, Its probably still swimming with them after Saturday and portaloogate.

I thought all the turds had gone home by now

Changed for you....like the present MP for Swindon North

Another bit of info here

http://www.theposh.com/news/article/20120917-ground-redevelopment-moves-a-step-closer-371130.aspx

So my understanding is that the club, is buying the ground from the council, so maybe in return the council are building the educational facility, which includes the stand?

I think it's the option that Town fans would like to see....namely SBC, bung us 1.5 mill, so we can upgrade our facilities which is out of the question.

Probably spending more that on the fecking roadworks at Bruce St Bridges - better get it right this time.

Useless shaggers

SBC have a history of not getting it right, look at what they done at the whalebridge / fleming way or the town centre

They couldn't even fund a link between thamesdown drive and the great western way, despite it being crystal clear that building a squillion  new homes would mean a a squillion new cars.

Admittedly that was ages ago, but every fuckwit  council has failed to address it since. The latest attempt put costs at about the same price as the Newbury bypass ffs.

They should've funded the Thamesdown Drive extension, given the amount of cash received from developers to go toward the project.

But most of that cash got swallowed up by the clusterfuck that is Wichelstowe when the developers walked away with roads and services left incomplete.

I like what they did at Whale Bridge / Fleming Way.  It's so much better than that God-awful roundabout, with its horrible pedestrian underpass.

I saw a bloke asleep on the bank of that underpass,  with a can of strong cider next to him....and a rat (not a pet one!). Used to use that underpass when going to the CG.

Totally agree with you Reg, another parasite!!  Bit like "The Grinner" Councillor Dale Heenan who is responsible for signing off all these roadworks at the same time resulting in gridlock!!  Comes out of the woodwork for a photo opportunity but always blame somebody else when it goes tits up - as it invariably does!!

I can just about remember it as it was in the black and white pics below.  No doubt Reg can, too!   :)

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/swindonlocal/tags/whalebridge/

The 3rd pic down with the garage, is a familiar view, but can't really remember the first 2. Vividly remember the canal in what became Fleming Way, before it was made a road. Used to walk along it, for a way on the way to school or to go into town.

Ha, the bank the bloke/rat were on was the one to the left of the couple.

The problem with any development has always been obtaining the necessary funding.  That scuppered the plans Fitton had, which included the developer that completed PNE's new stands.  The general premise was that it would provide a long term return that would more than pay for it, but you still need someone giving the cash to build the thing.  The economic issues hit the banks just as we were ready to press on, and with our credit rating no doubt pretty next to zero anyway, we were way to risky to lend to.  Black bailed at £10m invested, so clearly would not have had the appetite to do it himself.

Those flower pots on Clive Parade really enhance the area.
Bravo Sbc . . money well spent.

We'd be in a far better position if their investment had been put in to the ground and facilities, rather than having Wray and PDC piss it all away chasing promotion to The Championship.

Would we? 10M is a new stand maybe, not a new stadium. And in fairness they did start to look at it.

Getting to the championship is £5m extra revenue, and more fans.

Tough call.

edit: oh, that was RobertT's point, I should read threads forward not backwards!

Point taken, but it still doesn't really explain what is so special about STFC that we are just about the only club not to have managed to get something off the ground since the mid-1990s.  Even clubs like Oxford, who managed a badly planned/botched relocation, have managed something.  We are almost on our own as a Football League club where parents are now taking their kids to a ground that looks almost identical to the one they visited themselves as kids.  Just tattier.

Someone else pointed out earlier in the thread that this could be part of a wider Swindon malaise.  You could apply the same rule to the town and, in particular, the town centre itself (ie that the centre of Swindon is basically the same now as it was 25 years ago, just more dilapidated).

When I was a kid growing up in Swindon in the 1980s, it was called out as a place on the move.  The 'fastest growing town in Europe' was going places.  There was always something new happening; a new area being built.  The outlook was always positive.

By comparison, everything now seems to take ages.  There is always a reason not to do things and get on with them.  Why did that change?  Just imagine the place people could now be living in it Swindon had retained its 'can do' attitude.

Would a new Town End really cost £10 million? Perhaps if it came with Large Hotel/new club shop/ticket office/etc I could understand but that just seems extortion.

Is anyone on here in construction? What did Peterborough's new home end cost for example - that's along the lines of what we'd need/want behind the goal.

The figure I remember is that the Intel (now Don Rogers) Stand cost  £1.8m to build in 1994.  Adjust that for RPI and you get to £3.0m in today's money.  Add on a bit extra because anything to do with construction seems generally more expensive, and you might get to £5.0m maximum.  £10.0m seems way too high, especially when considering that the Town End is a shorter stand.

I was thinking of an Arkells replacement. Its true Stratton Bank and the Town End are worse, but I'm not sure how you increase revenue by rebuilding those. But there must be scope for better facilities in the main stand - even if its just better corporate/boxes. Whether there is the appetite to use such facilities is another matter.

How much did Fulhams temp stand cost, where we stood in the cup game? That's been there a while.

You'll never know until you build it.  But I'd imagine that Madejski, for example, probably had similar reservations when Reading were slumming it in Elm Park 20 years ago.  From their point of view, lucky he took the punt.

There's a part of me that feels quite strongly that we're never going to see a step change in our fortunes/status until the owners actually believe that things can be different and take a punt.  In 2024, we could be an established Championship club playing regularly to 15,000 crowds in a modern, redeveloped County Ground.  I do believe it.  I wish there weren't so many out there doubting the possibility.

Crowds won't increase if we continue to charge extortionate ticket prices in return for poor facilities. Both Stratton Bank and The Town End are terraces that have had seats bolted to them, far from ideal view wise. Putting a roof on Stratton Bank is quite frankly ludicrous. A simple new stand similar to DR is the only viable option however it is funded.

I don't think it is. If you look at the finances of Championship clubs you'll see that £5m extra in revenue gets eaten up by increased salaries pretty quickly. We need to start generating more and higher recurring revenues - these will last for a life time rather than a season or two in The Championship.

Building a decent replacement for the Town End could mean a lot of ongoing revenue, paying for itself and more. Move the pitch towards the town centre at the same time, creating some space for a proper redevelopment of the Stratton Bank at some point in the future.

Fuck knows where the money is going to come from though.

I think we should rotate the pitch 180 degrees and build a wall around the entire ground creating the illusion of having a new ground without the associated costs.

What I find confusing is the amount of people on here who say we have a cracking ground, historic,  old school, glad we haven't got a soulless bowl etc. Then people say our ground is shabby,  tired,  hasn't been updated for 20 years. What do people want?

No change at all - except heavy rain next time we entertain the Slavetraders

Surely, nobody wants to remain watching football from the TE as it is.

Atmosphere was better when people used to decamp to the SB end of the Intel - that used to get the whole stand going

90 degrees?

I'd be happy with a new Town End, a roof on Stratton Bank and a lick of paint in the Arkells to be honest.

I'd be happy if it stayed the same tbh.......although the first five years of the Intel at the SB end were fun.

After starting Town life as Townender in the 70/80s, then the TE end of the old Shrivvy and then the SB end of the Intel I now find myself in God's Waiting Room - AKA the Arkells.

Apart from the price I don't see how anyone can enjoy viewing head on as against from the side

No, 180º.

The pitch? Surely Pieman means the stadium?

If we're going to rotate it then we should do it properly and do it by 360º.

Surely you'd be viewing the car park. Fuck me, the football aint that bad!

You're 5 years too late with that idea.

http://thetownend.com/index.php?topic=35945.msg744948#msg744948

Rotate everything by 180º.

We never did get those lasers and trebuchets.

We should rotate by 1080 degrees at half time.

So, basically have the home end at the SB and house the away fans in the TE? It's what city are doing.

No, you don't get it.

Actually pick everything up - pitch, stands, the lot - and rotate it all 180º.

Stupid 4D.

What I think you might be finding confusing is different people having different opinions. I'm afraid you'll just have to learn to deal with that.

No, I don't get it.  :)

Three choices in reality.

Do nothing
Brand new stadium
Update what we have

4, rotate existing in line with Feng Shu

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

5. Build a wall around the ground, from the outside it'll look completely new!!

A transparent perspex stadium is the way to go.

I still say the whole thing should be on hydraulic stilts so we can just pick up the away end and shake them out into the car park if they're being difficult.

This.

We'd all get fucking dizzy

We could have the Tommy Roe classic as the goal music....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbdtQ99yIUo

Very good, Reg!

I hope we don't get threatened with legal action for stealing the intellectual property of Gary Stanley

Think that might count as an oxymoron (sorry Gazzza) :)

10 years and the joke still doesn't get old :)