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I love a world cup me and although I don't think Italia 90 has been bettered in the intervening years I'm still very excited for next year. (apart from the english) I don't care who wins just that there is some drama and excitement along the way. I know a fair few will claim to have no interest in England but there's much more to it than that. Will the Spaniards possession their way to the final, can Brazil capitalise on the support provided by the buxom locals or will the there be a surprise package? I can't wait to find out.

Which brings me to the draw, in my opinion England will need a bit of luck today if we're to see the 2nd round but it'd probably be more exciting to be pitted against some better teams before the inevitable happens. Still, fine margins win matches as David Platt showed in Bologna. The draw itself is just right in the complicated stakes and if I can gather correctly I reckon the best case scenario today would be Switzerland, Algeria and Honduras but If I'm honest I haven't got a clue how it'll work with teams being put into groups so the confederations don't mix.

Anyone else looking forward to June or do you think it'll be a tactically dull 4-5-1 bore off after bore off? In my ideal world we'll see Roy pull off tactical masterstroke by making 4-4-2  quick attacking footy fashionable again on the way to English victory.  :beers:

They've missed a trick by not asking Sepultura to open the show. Chaos AD would have been quite apt.

There's a lovely blonde with her tits basically out on the live draw coverage.

Group E please

Bugger

Going home early again

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :D :D :D :D :D

Manaus Mayor will be overjoyed! You can well gauge the antipathy towards England amongst the delegates by the chortle of laughter that went around the arena.

 2 of the 5 countries who we've historically lost more to than won in Italy and Uruguay. So it would be an achievement to get out of that group.

First game at 2am on a Sunday morning. Do you reckon they'll have it on the screen in town?

Tricky.

Trickier than a Paul Daniels v Whizzbit trickoff at the tournament of tricky tricks.

It'd be an incredible achievement to get out of the group, a minor miracle.

I prefer a tough group....had we been in E, most would just assume we'd get through easily. I'd like to see us wipe the grin off Suarez's face, Pirlo can't embarrass us forever, and Brian Oviedo is a cool name.

Is it wrong that I really don't care much for the national team anymore?  Just think they are all massively over paid egoistical pricks.

Out in the group stages with Rooney shagging old ladies in Rio.

Piece of piss when are the quarters?

Ahem

Brazil does a nice line in shemales and ladyboys...

Not the horror group people are making it out to be, won't be easy but can see us progressing.

An incredible achievement and a minor miracle to get out of the group? People love a good over reaction don't they.

Costa Rica are dog toss, Uruguay can be good on their day but are very unpredictable, and Italy will be just as scared of losing as we are (opening game). It isn't the end of the world.

Is it the top 1 or 2 that go through?

Top 2

As I pointed out Changster, there are only 5 teams who've got a historic winning record over England...and Italy and uruguay are two, the other two at this tournament are Brazil and Germany. The record is in place because we don't do too well against these teams....the main bonus is that in the group stages we don't have to go to pens.

Piece of piss. Who do we want in the final?

What a surprise that Les Frogs have drawn a piss poor group.

That Platini needs butt fucking with a screwdriver

What a coincidence that UEFA president's France should end up in a weak group with FIFA's Switzerland.

Equalite Egalite Fraternity

MY HAIRY ARSE

Italy don't always travel well

Woy has already notched an og, with his Manaus views, although completely justified, he'd have been better off rattling on about the Manaus Opera House or something.  Large Italian diaspora in Brazil....they'll have local support.

Whose group are India in?

India needs to shift its corruption from the ICC and IPL over to FIFA if it wants to get anywhere.

Big German diaspora in Southern Brazil too (Dunga and Tafferel case in points) especially around Porto Alegre (Gremio celebrate this very much). Fascinating cultural blend in that region.

I believe there are more people of Italian descent in Sao Paolo than of Portuguese origin.

Bacon rolls in the "Turban"  :beers:

You watch a lot of Costa Rica then?

Costa Rica finished 7 pts above Mexico, who we'd have been fawning over had we have been drawn in their group.

I watched them in 1990 when they beat Scotland, marvellous!

Typical English support banging on about a 'lesser' nation being also rans before they've even seen them. You'd have thought you lot would have learned from your E.A.S.Y. group in the last world cup that it doesn't work like that.

Being completely impartial about it (as I am - my anti-England days have long gone) it's nice to see England in a harder group as I think it'll actually help you're chances of putting on a decent performance.

As for '90 typical Scotland lose to CR, beat Sweden and lose to a 79th minute goal by Brasil. You wouldn't know what I'd give for us to be beaten by the likes of Costa Rica, Honduras, Iran anyone at a majhor championships, been way to long.

Its amazing how often Scotland in tournaments put up a good show against the big teams and then let themselves down against the 'weaker' sides. It happened in France 98 as well to some extent didn't it?

Bet you long for those days again at the minute. To be the first UEFA team eliminated out of the qualification groups is quite (the opposite of) impressive.

Yep, saw that first hand in St Etienne. Think the 90's 'upsets' were a mental thing, bit like eng are fnding out in Aus now. If you write off hungrier sides than you that aren't that bad, in our case Costa Rica and Morocco, then you're in for a shock. 

Still with Euros expanding and Strachan bringing back some pride perhaps in a couple of years we'll have the opportunity to lose to Estonia or Latvia in a major championships, we can but drea. ;-)

England's first game been moved,

From 2am to 11pm.

Is that for more beer sales here and in Italy ?
or
Cooler for the players ?

 :hmmm:

Ratings. So FIFA can justify the TV rights fees in Italy and England.

England will get a point. A draw against Costa Rica. A south american team will win it.

That is going to be one messy night. If it had stayed at 2am people would have paced themselves, 11 kick off, means it'll probably 'kick off at around 5 past in some pubs'.

That's 5 AM for me. Looks like it'll be a continuation from Saturday night then :)

Surely England will get out of the group, how else are they going to lose on Penalties.

Unless of course Costa Rica score a last minute penalty to knock us out.

I can see 3 straight defeats here so anything else is a bonus.

Sign of things to come  :hmmm:

Today in Brazil - reports of one dead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo3FTMCtG6Y

http://fbl72.lockerdome.com/articles/110733037

(http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab225/mark_woolhouse/brazil2_zpsc2f3380d.jpg)

(http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab225/mark_woolhouse/brazil3_zpsbb47ea06.jpg)

(http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab225/mark_woolhouse/brazil1_zpsd44bdf75.jpg)

Just like a friday night down my local

Why do I believe that  :hmmm:

Sick twats, the guys out and they're stamping on his head. I am not a violent man but I can look after myself, and I'll usually step in if someone is getting a shoeing. Don't like that  >:(

Terrible policing/organisation. How the fuck where they even allowed to get at eachother like that in the first place?

Utter cowardly scum. They'll answer to a higher power.

The maxim "Don't kick a man when he's down" is clearly lost on these neanderthals.

Be interesting what the good and the great at FIFA have to say about this - suspect that if scenes like this were seen in England in the build up to us hosting a major tournament, FIFA / UEFA etc would make it very clear that the "English disease" is the scourge of the game, and then go on to question whether England is fit to have a major tournament.

Let's not even start on the poor infrastructure, the fact the stadiums aren't built, the heat, the general issues around policing and crime...

It's not that Brazil doesn't deserve the World Cup. Brazilians love football. It just could perhaps have done with either a little more time or forward planning, or, you know, being a country that isn't a bubbling pot of political and domestic tensions where gangs rule sections of the capital to such an extent the police don't even try to enter them?

I suppose it could be worse. At least it's not a country where press freedom is far from the norm, racism is prevalent at every level of society to such an extent it is deemed 'normal', LGBT rights are virtually non-existent, and torture or unnecessarily cruel punishment is widespread.

Or a country where those things are also true, but the heat is even worse, grass is a luxury, slave labor (or its equivalent) is the norm, and flogging is still a common punishment.

I suppose the important thing is Mr Blatter and Mr Platini each have a new yacht. That's something I suppose.

Fuck Brazil, fuck Russia, and fuck Qatar. Most importantly, fuck Blatter, the destitute stroke victim looking cunt.

Has clarke carlisle or Sol Campbell got involved yet?

We had all these 'concerns' before the Euro's in Poland.

And the safety of fans/bad infrastructure concerns of South Africa.

Any scare stories about the 2016 euros in France yet?

Brazil is a great choice of host for footballing reasons, that's all that matters.

Agree....Britain may be the spiritual home of football, and I'll give a nod in the direction of the Sweaties on this, but Brazil is the spiritual home of the WC.

All this talk of the world cup has me getting excited.  But only for the Stunners world cup.  Who's organising it this year? 

Is it still acceptable to have such overt sexism on the TEF....after all it's the sort of thing that Blatter would condone.

Whilst in the real world we have lady assistant referees

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7iVCboImJo

Whilst it may not be acceptable, its probably inevitable.

Being a new man I clearly dont condone it.  But will take part.  Ironically.  Because Irony means never having to say you're sorry.

Read a bit about that scrapping, apparently vasco were facing relegation and there were no police in the ground.  ???

Everyone who says England will win the world cup are speaking bollocks. We all know Wales will do better and they aren't even in it. COME ON WALES

A version of Denmark's kit for STFC next season would please me very much.

Guess Luongo isn't coming on now. The Aussie keeper ha just clattered an Equidorian and got sent off.

3-0 up the Aussies were, 3-1 and now a pen in about 30 secs.3-2 and the commentator has gone into full "goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal"

Doubt he will as they just made another change with Wilkinson coming on

3 all now 77 gone

You've got you're monies worth if you went to the New Den this evening, you don't hear that said much.

He's on, congratulations to Mass.

But commiserations with the result.

Pffft he's an international cap now, he doesn't care. Plus it's only a friendly so if the whole Socceroo things goes down the swanny then there's always Indonesia... or Italy :)

90th minute?

As in game time? He got about 15 minutes.

So watching the England friendly last night its clear we are going to struggle at the World Cup in a very tricky group.

Sure we won, with a well taken goal from Sturridge from a great cross from Lallana, but Denmark carved us open 3 times and had they not had the Danish version of Michael Smith in those situations could have easily won 3-0. Smalling is not International class.

Positives were the Saints pair of Lallana and Shaw.

We are not going to win. Forget the Semis. Aim for the quarters and blood the next generation. This should be where we start our pteperation for the next Euros and the 2018 World Cup.

Drop Rooney, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard etc.

Agree to some extent.

Rooney was dire last night, his shooting particularly poor, maybe next time he should wear football boots instead of Timberlands (courtesy of Simon Ferry).

Gerrard is class still and I thought played well. This will be one last hurrah for him I reckon.

If we get out of the group stage, that would be a massive achievement...as I've pointed out before there are only 5 countries in world football with a winning head to head v England and Italy and Uruguay are two of them.  This England side hasn't many  individual talents, but if Woy can somehow find a team, then it could be interesting.

Drop Gerrard because he won't be at the next one? Top logic.

It's incredible, to me, that there's any optimism apart from the possibility of a plucky knockout stages elimination.

England coukd do with an Italia '90 overachievement to capture the hearts and minds of anyone who cares.

Id like to have seen us line up last night

Forster/butland
Johnson davies cahill shaw
Henderson gerrard
Townsend lallana sterling
Sturridge

CB is a huge problem area for england and we played a lot better once rooney went off imo!

Oh and we wont get out of the group so play young players with a mind to euro 2016

Select the best players whether they're 18 or 36. The World Cup to Euro Qualifiers is a good enough crossover if players like Lampard, Cole and Gerrard decide to call it a day internationally afterwards.

What I find amazing, is that impressive numbers still turn out at Wembley, to support the side.

Last night I watched Spain v Italy, fascinating game, between the last two winners of the WC. Spain will probably leave behind at least a dozen players who'd walk into the England squad, but the Vincente Calderon, which holds around 40,000 was at best 3/4 full.

Can't argue with that, except for Glen Johnson at RB who is one of those players who I just cannot stand. Are there any other decent English RB's? At all?!?

It's a friendly, don't crock players who'll probably be in the squad anyway, use the opportunity to blood some young guns who probably won't get to play in the WC but will be around the squad nonetheless. Keepers especially- if Hart gets injured, precisely how many minutes have Forster and Butland played for England? Don't want to be chucking them in at the deep end.

Only one I can think off is callum chambers of Southampton but dont think he is ready yet!

Thats exactly my point re keepers, hart gets injured we have a huge issue as noone else has any experience or exposure at international level.

Also there is fuck all point playing sturridge and putting him out wide when he is the best striker we have - play him down the middle or not at all.

I actually watched last night to see If it was worth watching the WC. (It isn't). I don't watch much apart from us, but cant believe how fucking crap Rooney is. He was like a kid in the playground taking corners, free kicks, anything, all badly. I'd have taken him round the bike sheds and given him a kicking for being a greedy twat, but it looks like someone already did (cheap shot :)

The logic is that we need to develop those that will be at the next one. Accept the inevitable. Someone other than England is going to win the 2014 World Cup. Choose a target- 2016 Euros' 2018 World Cup and start developing the squad to win that competition NOW. As it stands, someone other than England is going to win everything up to and including the eat everything on the big plate challenge in The Resteraunt At The End Of The Universe.

Dropping our best player to blood a new one at a major international tournament is not logical, and there's no way you can dress it up to make it so.

It'd be like us dropping Ranger for the play offs so we could blood Smith for next year. IE, fucking stupid.

If you say so.

I'm with stupid fuzzy.

Is it really that hard? Pick the best team, no matter how their age.

People stupidly will think we have a chance so the tried and failed old guard will go.
Woy will have to go along with it due to pressure so the same old shit will continue.

Go with a side for the future, plan ahead and if the young kids do well in Brazil then that's a bonus. Aint gonna happen though.

I'm not seeing these comments by media or fans alike who are saying we stand a chance. For laughs alone, where can I read these?

Personally, I don't see the logic in shunning the old guard purely on the basis that they're not going to be playing in Euro 2016. If their form is poor or they're not fit then by all means look elsewhere but if they remain good enough then they've got to go, right?

The problems Hodgson faces go far beyond simply selecting a squad. Hopefully we'll have sorted ourselves out within a decade because it's a travesty that we've got ourselves into this mess internationally.

If we had a chance of maybe, perhaps winning then I agree but, with the current squad, which includes the Olde Guard, that chance doesn't exist.

Lets stop deluding ourselves and accept that fact- our best team isn't good enough so, why pick what folk think is our current best team? Just so we can scrape out of the group stages and get embarrased at the knock out stages? It is going to happen anyway so lets get the inexperienced youngsters the International game time they need to develop into a National squad with potential.

Much though I hate to admit it, Ferguson did the right thing at Manure when he took over. Said fuck it to requirements to play his best team at the time as it wasn't good enough. He went down the youth route and look where it got him.

What "old guard" are people talking about?

Yeah, anyone over the age of 25 doesn't deserve to be in the England team.  ::)

Rubbish. Gerrard's captain and deserves to be so- our best and most consistent performer year after year. This is probably his last chance to go to a World Cup and even if it wasn't he'd deserve to be in the team. He always looks good, even when the team around him is shit, in fact, he seems to work harder when he knows everyone else is being fucking lazy.

Not that we shouldn't blood the youngsters (far from it), but having a selection of old heads smattered about the squad is necessary. Gerrard, Cole and (possibly) Lampard deserve to be there. Rooney fucking doesn't and can go and shag grannies and be bald elsewhere.

rooney doesn't deserve to get in the england squad?  :clap:  :girlgiggle:

I fucking hate Wayne Rooney.

Put him on the plane but only on the provision that someone pushes the cunt out when they're above the Atlantic.

Why would we be including Gerrard, Lampard, Cole? To what end?

Because they are the golden generation and have massive experience of underperforming in major tournaments.

I think,I can safely say that no matter which players, which manager and almost any era you care to think of, watching England ain't changed a jot.

And now trying to get the tanglefooted morons to attempt some poor mans version of possession football is, if possible, even worse.

And as mentioned in another thread it is hardly surprising when John Beck and, now, Boothroyd are on England's coaching staff.

And yet 80,000 or so still turn up expecting what?

I prefer one of those really satisfying dumps

The national sides problems run far deeper than a few picks for the WC....essentially the entire structure of English football from grass roots up is fucked....this has been known about for years, dating back to say the Chester Report of 1968, but change is slow, and the national team suffers as a consequence.

The Premier League was started with the FA's connivance, in the belief it would improve standards, it hasn't for the England team, rather just reduced the pool of available players.

The FA finally tried to catch up with the French, by opening this St George's place in Burton, I suppose time will tell if it will be a help, but atm we're still way behind other major nations in terms of producing talent, and there was plenty of evidence in the summer at age group levels that it will get worse before better.

Unfortunately as long as the Prem trough is awash money, then no club is going to take a chance on player development.

Think it was Fuzzy who mentioned Ferguson at ManU, but his star crop coincided with the then UEFA rule about a having to use a certain number of home grown players in Champion's League games....a rule soon ditched by the EU as being illegal.

Coincidence or not. Soton get held up as an example, and they do have a decent record, but the policy helped them get relegated to Div 3, and it was when down with us that the likes of Lallana started

No. No he doesn't. Not on the form he's displayed over the past few years for England. He can fuck right off back to Manure and take his 300k/week and cunty attitude with him.


Because they're some of the country's best players, and as we've seen this season, having a team made up of youngsters is not partners with consistency. You need to have a backbone of experience in there.

After all the money the FA spends on sending the team out there etc. there is no point in the manager then turning around and going 'oh yeah, we're just going to use this as an exercise in trying out a new team'. You have to at least attempt to pick your best squad and win. I don't expect us to do anything, but it would be nice to at least try.

Another Rooney hater here. After SA he should have been told to fuck off. A person who demands loyalty and respect from all around him and who would fuck off to another club if they paid him 5 pence more than Man U and would shag any bird who flashed her false teeth and stretch marks at him. A truly hateful little cunt who sums up why people have stopped caring about England and hate Premiership football.

Rooney is one of the most overrated players of all time.

agreed, been saying this for years

spain could make a 3rd team that would beat england.

This debate, in a way, goes to the very heart of what sport (or perhaps team sport) is all about.  If we went with the theory that if you have no chance of winning a tournament, don't take players who won't be around in a couple of years time, only three or four nations would take their strongest squads - and then where would we be?  I understand the temptation to go with that theory, but surely in the end it devalues the tournament itself?  The world cup is supposed to be a tournament pitting the best in the world against each other - we all know FIFA and our mate Sepp is trying to ruin it, but if we take this selection policy surely we are complicit in the demise of the tournament as well. 

Take our best 23 and do as well as we can.  That's what the tournament is for.  Otherwise, what exactly is the point?

What other nation has blooded youngsters at a major tournament in the effort to build experience? As Baggins says, it just doesn't happen.

The problem lies in the lack of English players gaining experience at the top of the English league pyramid or in European competitions.

Spain have profited from Barcelona's youth policy. Likewise with Germany.

Leaving the 'golden' pros at home will do fuck all for the youth experience when we get knocked out in the groups stages after suffering three humiliating defeats.

Yes, for a player to be on target to finish his career as leading scorers for England and Man utd would be pretty shit as things go. Let's take grant holt

Would he get in the Germany/Argentina/Spain/Brazil first 11? I don't think he would.

overrated does not mean shit.

He just isn't in that "World Class" bracket a lot of people put him in.

I'd say he's better than Podolski so he'd probably get into Germany's squad at the mo.

The real question is can Wayne Rooney play well 'on a sweltering night in Manaus'?

Stay tuned...

Take people on form, and play them in their correct position - it should be that simple. If they are in form but their position is filled, they sit on the bench - don't squeeze them in just because.

Re. the 'old guard' there is absolutely no need to take Lampard... he rarely plays well when he does feature these days. I'd be 50/50 on Cole - we could go Baines and Shaw instead.

He probably wouldn't but there are numerous people in this thread that think he shouldnt get in our squad which is laughable

Like their first team that has always put England to the sword  ::)

England W13, D2 , L8

:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Superb.

If only current football and quality of squads was decided on historic head-to-head records.

Some excellent points made and I kept changing my mind as I read them.
I think it comes back to going with what is seen as the best available side to try to go as far as possible, or gambling with youth to gain experience for the future when the chance of glory is more realistic. Me, I'd go with the latter.
The only old head who would nail a start on form is Gerrard anyway.

Shall we just base it on the most recent game between the sides then? We last played them on the 12th November 2011. I'll let you check the result.

I didn't realise England's record against Poland.

W11, D7, L1.

There are always players in the squad that won't play much (if at all).

Instead of taking older players in those positions, why not take a couple of youngsters who will (in all likelihood) be in the squad for the next world cup.

However, for your starting 11 & 5(isn) subs you have to take the best players available.
Like it or not Gerrard & Rooney are most definitely in that group.