Thetownend.com

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I like to judge players after their contribution has ended. He can do next to nothing and score a tap in like against Ukraine for all I care.

trying to do too much if anything.

it's quiet in general...

I thought matches last for 90 minutes

What an awful thread. You could say that about a number of strikers. My old man used to moan like hell about our own Duncan Shearer then he'd pop up and win us the match. That's what it's all about.

he's on the wind up, he hates rooney, no point telling him otherwise.  'world class' players have to control every minute of a match otherwise 'they're shit' - jealousy usually

Ah right. Best leave him to it then.

Yea , best leave him to it.

Scotland are doing well

World class players who play centre forward, and score one goal in 20 games are few and far between unfortunately.

Virtually every England attack has ended with Rooney.

I used to rate him World class, I even own a "Roo dares wins" T-shirt, but the guy is totally out of form, and is a liability.
I get no joy saying it, but I'm not blind.

The fact you have that tshirt makes your whole point invalid.

Ha ha, good point DRS. 'Roo dares wins' t shirt? What a pleb.

He's not exactly set the game the alight but if he scores and wins us the game then I couldn't care.

The Italians know he is the threat, and get 2 or 3 men around him every time the ball gets near him

He had two responsibilities -

1) score goals (or at least create something)
2) close down Pirlo

The result -

1) He fucked up every ball that came to him
2) Pirlo ran the game

He scored a good penelty in the shoot out, but anyone who says that he is (still) World class is fucking deluded

Funny thing is he will bag 50+ goals in the next 2 seasons and then once we get to world cup won't do fuck all, its not surprising really to me because he hasnt done anything in an international final except get sent off

He hasn't been good internationally since 2004.

He's still world class.

"World Class" to me is someone who succeeds at every level of football, Rooney doesnt fit this as he is poor internationally.

He's no Shearer thats for sure.

ryan giggs was therefore never world class?

And George Best was pure shite.

i see 'world class' as somebody who you would pick to represent earth in a match against another planet, that means 22 players - for me rooney would be in that squad, not a starter mind

Ofcourse he was, he carried the welsh team for years and played well whereas rooney is shit for england.

Edit: Plus i never said you had to win trophys to be world class i just think you should perform as you always do.

but he didn't succeed as an international footballer, not even close

Think I would consider Ashley Cole in that squad, but no one else English.

Maybe he should have played for england then.

if giggs was english we would have won a world cup - no doubt in my mind whatsoever

Can't be fucked to read through previous messages but can imagine the general theme. To be fair to him, he didn't have a lot of football coming in to the tournament as Roy needed to work out a plan B and so he's naturally looked a little rusty.

That said tonight he was just dog-shit as was his United team-mate Young and Walcott (did he do anything?).

Chipped in a ball to back post just before half time in ET.

Thats all i can remember.

Out of interest, which one?

For someone who was brought on for pace, I can't remember a single time he beat his marker.

How do you rate Lionel Messi?

1998 for sure, maybe 2002

World class as his hattrick vs Brazil clearly prove.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Rooney

Anyone care to comment on both players scoring records for there country?

Messi must be shit for Argentina :D

Messi has scored 7 in his last 3 games for them, plus he got them to the copa america final which is there Euro's which is more than Rooney has done in the last 8 years

Comparing Rooney to Messi is like comparing me to Brad Pitt

1998: we went out to Argentina on pens; who then lost to Holland; who then lost to Brazil; who then lost to France. Yep, 1998 for sure...

2002: we lost to Brazil because Seaman strayed off his line, not sure hat good Giggs would've done there. Plus the time zone, heat and humidity were against us.

Suceeding at every level of football suggests winning things to me.

Rooney isn't world class for me but then again I think there are only 4 world class players at the moment - Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta.

He wudnt of given the foul away which was given away by our current left midfielder at the time Trevor Sinclair  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

;)

Rooney should never, ever again be given an England shirt.

Useless scouse cunt

Why the hatred for rooney?! Or for any of them that played? I wouldn't say rooney lacked effort at all, in a defensive set up why is everyone expecting him to shine? Did his best, thought they all did. We were never going to be good enough to win the tournament and everyone said that before it started. Now we lose on penalties and everyone is targetting players and the team for being shit again. Lots of decent youth coming through and how many of this team will be in brazil?

Had that overhead kick gone in all we'd have heard about was how amazing Rooney is. I didn't see enough of the game to judge, but in the bits I did see he was hardly being provided with constant world-class service.

I think England could have made the World Cup final in 2002 - if - they'd had Germanys run to the final, which was relatively easy. Ireland, Cameroon and Saudi Arabia in the group. Paraguay, United States and then South Korea.

Now Germany got an easy group as they were seeded in pot 1 - where as England were seeded in pot 2, despite the fact England topped the qualifying group where as Germany had to go through the play offs. So I never quite worked out why we werent seed 1 and them 2 but meh...

Brazil would have still beat us.

Rooney has never lived up to the potential he showed as a 16 year old. To busy being a celebrity and getting up to no good instead of being a footballer. How often does Messi end up in the tabloids in Spain?

Not at international level but I think he has for United. Won plenty and his record is superb.

Do people even watch Rooney play for United then?

Its difficult to say who is and isn't world class in a team sport, which is why comparing players is very difficult. I personally don't rate Rooney, he's a good player but I just don't see how people make him out to be England's saviour.

Most people don't. It just comes across that way because they spend so long defending him against those who criticise every negative about him whilst ignoring anything good he does.

I can't believe some of the stuff I've read on here gobbling Rooney off.

Yes he does it for Utd - last time I checked we aren't Utd fans - performance-wise the bloke has been a total waste of oxygen for England for some time, his ridiculous attitude caused him to get sent off and thus miss games, meaning he wasn't match fit this time around- by the same token, getting sent off against Portugal years ago cost us dear with a petulant stamp.

2004 he had a great tournament - since then he has produced 8 years of mainly fucking tripe for England - remember him spouting off at the fans after a DISGUSTING personal and team performance against Algeria in 2010?

In an England shirt, his attitude stinks, his discipline is appalling and his performances have been dire.

The bloke is a CUNT and anyone who thinks differently, unless you are a plastic Manc, needs their head examined.

Rant over.

...winning things isnt a sign of talent. Alan Shearer has been the best english striker in my lifetime and his medal haul isnt very good. Jonathan Greening has a Champions League winners medal and has never played Champions League football.

He's a good player but still not lived up to the hype - at 16 to 18 he had all the tools to become the best player in the world and it just hasnt happened.

He falls into the same bracket as the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Rio, Terry etc who have promised a lot for England but delivered very little.

I love you Dave.

(I do agree with your post)

Main problem is that Rooney doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the England team. It's fine at club level where you can build a team and tactics around a few star players but you don't always have that option at international level. Think our main problem in recent years has been playing our best players and forcing the rest of the team around them.

Rooney would feature in most squads at international level, even Spain have taken Torres to the Euros and played him when he has been a pile of shit for Liverpool (in his final season) and Chelsea.

He hasn't performed but should be made a scapegoat because others didn't perform either - Ashley Young was awful all tournament.

I also think the lack of out-and-out strikers is indicative of the nature of football in this country, in fact the way we played too. Strikers aren't there just to score goals but there is a massive emphasis on holding up the ball and bringing in others in the English game. Post-Owen we've not had a striker who is there to grab goals, well Defoe and Bent were brought in with that in mind but they weren't up to it.

We always look at our best players and want them to be game changers but at the top level you need quite a few of them!

you dont become man utds 4th highest scorer at the age of 26 being "good". countless player of the year awards- england/prem voted by fans/players. Score ratio of 1 in 3 internationally. Score 199 in 314 appearances at club level etc etc etc.

He doesnt fit in with england team? How many of englands best do? Is it the manager or the player, no one can ever question rooneys effort and desire to win.  He is 26!!

When shearer was 26 just before euro 96 he had scored 5 in 20 odd games for england.  Fucking baffling thread.

Some of the statements on here saying he shouldn't play for England are embaraasingly ridiculous.

I wonder how many other "shit" international strikers there are with a 1 in 3 goal to game ratio at international level.

It's all very well saying that Rooney should be ditched but look at the other striking options we have, fucking dire in comparison.  I'll take the 26 y/o with a proven goalscoring at club & international level throughout his career.

Dump Rooney.

You idiots.

Although Shearer hardly won any silverware in his football career he was consistent when he did play, and he scored important goals for england at big tournys, Rooney hasnt achieved international consistency, and im not saying dont play him im saying he needs to improve his match performance well in an england shirt.

Nobody is right or wrong ref Rooney - it's just opinions.

Mine is that he has now proven in more than one tournament that he does not reproduce his club form for England - and he's not the only one.

He may well have a decent scoring ratio against the minnows in qualifying but England really do need to be stepping up in tournament finals.

So just how many more games does he have to play - contributing very little - before the penny drops.

This is true, but if he was dropped for a tornament. There would be uproar in the media and the general public

shearer didnt come good internationally until he was 26. I have no doubt rooney will be englands all time record goal scorer by the time he retires

He scored 13 in 11 for england under 21 which is international level, you can blame any of the england team during 90-94 as we had the shit that is Graham Taylor running the team plus shearer was injured for more of the qualifiers for 94 world cup so cudnt have done much about it, Didnt lineker retire around the time shearer finaly got in the team?

francis jeffers is u21 joint top scorer so that holds little clout. Rooney was awesome in 2004, injured and started late in 06. Didnt qualify 08, and the last 2 the whole team has struggled and he has suffered as much anyone with style and gameplay because he is the end product. some people are making out that his england career should be in doubt, he is not in the same bracket as gerard and lampard etc because he has potentially has another 4 tournaments to play in and hopefully the whole team will have improved.

Yeah Shearer shares it with him.

Er.... all this is very well and good but the bottom line is we looked more of a goal threat when he wasn't playing...

Which proves the point that the u21 goals stat means nothing. Rooney has never been selected for the u21 squad and if he did I am sure he would have done as well?

agreed but we never set up to attack in any of the games and rooney was issolated. If carroll had started and the same result happened people would be going mad and asking why rooney off the back of a prolific season wasnt playing. We did not lose because of rooney. We lost because we can't keep hold of the ball and panic under pressure  :banging:.

Haha shows how much you know he played at u15 u17 and u19 level he missed u21 because he was called upto england but even at the younger level rooney wasnt very consistent, Shearer started his youth at southampton, Rooney has spent all but 2 years of his carear at man united which is better isnt it? Shearer improved where as rooney hasnt for a few years now and is younger.

Like someone said Rooney is too busy being a celebrity and the games that he played in he has looked unfit it just makes you wonder if he even cares about playing for his country.

Say Rooney is shit then. Who the fuck in England is better in his position?

I never said he's shit and ofcourse he's the best english striker currently but he isnt living upto to that.

fuck me. last post then i give up. u are including shearers u21 goals in his international stats and using them to compare to rooney. I know rooney played at england youth are you saying that they shud be used "because they are international" as well? rooney never played u21 so is uncomparable. rooney is 26 ffs and ur writing him off. Rooney at 26 has done more than a shearer aged 26.

....at no point in the post you quoted did I say Rooney was just 'good' you can throw all sorts of achievements but I dont care as it has bugger all to do with what I actually said.

I said he hasnt lived up to his potential. 16/17/18 we were talking best player in the world, one of the best english players ever and he hasnt reached that. Not he's a top premier league striker and a decent international striker. Worlds greatest, far from it.

Also, Rooney went straight in as an England regular and has always been a started. Out of those first 20 Shearer caps how many were starts? how many were sub appearances? Some players get bought in gently into International football, 10 minutes here, 7 minutes there, 45 in a friendly else where.

Also, international goal scoring records can be somewhat obscured. Peter Crouch has an excellent goals to games ratio but so many have come either in friendlies or against dog shite (Jamica, Andorra, Belarus) opposition.

As for Rooney to Shearer.

Rooneys goals in major tournaments - Switzerland, Switzerland, Croatia, Croatia, Ukraine.
Shearers goals in major tournaments - Switzerland, Scotland, Holland, Holland, Germany, Tunisia, Argentina, Germany, Romania

Maybe he's home sick and he hasn'tplayed a tournament on home soil. 4 of shearers goals came in 1996

Sorry, make that 5, also he's never played in a Venables team

well you did actually but thats me being arsey and I was baseing my points on a few people not just what you said. My whole point regarding the shearer comparison (which in itself is stupid) was that at the same age rooney had achieved more. What i cant understand is people blaming rooney and also for writing off his england career when he's so young.  

Also, Gazza is slightly better than Parker/ Gerrard

Crouch hasn't played many games against top quality opposition.

If you compare their stats in competitive matches then Crouch beats Rooney, with a goal every 134 minutes vs 170 minutes.

He did say that.

He said Crouch hasn't scored many against top quality opposition, which is true except he hasn't had many opportunities to - most of his games have been against shit teams. So not sure it is something you can hold against him and his record.

In my opinion, one pound fish.

Just accept it that England are average and have been for years.

International Players need to get the basics right first holding the ball.
You can put all the spin and hype on it what you like but we are miles behind other European Country's.
Starts at kids level and up the 11 kids abroad never play 11 aside games. They learn from 6 aside matches where you are involved more with the ball.

Thankfully that shite is over now and we can look forward to the new season.

My comment was a general one. Not at you in particular. I agree with your reply though