Thetownend.com

The Archive => Euro 2012 => Topic started by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:09:36



Title: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:09:36
Well here we go, can we finally reach a semi final for the first time in 16 years? I bloody hope so.

England (Unconfirmed but Sky and BBC both think unchanged team)
Hart, Johnson, Terry, Lescott, Cole, Milner, Gerrard, Parker, Young, Rooney, Welbeck

Frustratingly feeling optimistic and when that usually happens when watching England it usually turns out bad.


Come on England!  :pint:


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:14:09
I hope England win, but don't expect it.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:17:45
I hope England win, but don't expect it.

Nor should you...we've never beaten a major country in a knock out stage of a tournament outside England.  There's a first time for everything, but the dreaded pens looks our best option.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: joteddyred on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:21:12
Nor should you...we've never beaten a major country in a knock out stage of a tournament outside England.  There's a first time for everything, but the dreaded pens looks our best option.
And the likelihood of us winning a penalty shootout isn't great.

I think there's a strong possibility of a sending off tonight.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:29:59
Engalnd have a good chance of winning tonight. They will have to raise their game from the group stages though


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: A Gent Orange on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:33:29
Be interesting how Italy set up. 352 and we could overwhelm them on the flanks but that could leave real space at fullback for Cassano and Mario B - just as they did against Spain to drop into the holes. Going to be the closest game since the groups ended.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Cibocchi_Is_God on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:35:19
I think our pace will cause them problems tonight, if Welbeck and Rooney are firing i'd back us to win. Mainly because they dont really have much threat if Pirlo isnt allowed to play, Balotelli dosent worry me, Cassano and De Rossi will be the one's to look out for I reckon.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Samdy Gray on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:40:10
De Rossi's been playing in the centre of the 3 hasn't he? No need to be worried about him.

As long as Parker does a job on Pirlo and we give Mario a few kicks early on, I think we'll do alright.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:42:30
I have absolutely no expectations on tonight. Italy should be too strong, but I didn't think we'd win the group so what do I know.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:46:27
Italy playing with 4 at the back, De Rossi in the midfield to mark Gerrard I think.

Buffon; Abate, Bonucci, Barzagli, Balzaretti; Marchisio, Pirlo, De Rossi; Montolivo; Balotelli, Cassano


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Bedford Red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:48:41
I've got a good feeling about tonight, not based on anything in particular....

Bedford has 20,000 Italians living here, and if they win they the town is going to go mad, after the World cup win in 2006 it went crazy....


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:50:24
considering England's threats from set pieces, Lescott and Terry being 28/1 to score first are great odds. I'm having a bit of that i think.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: SuggWillSugg MBE on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:51:19
I've gone with Rooney to score first and England to win 2-0.
50/1


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Cibocchi_Is_God on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:52:32
De Rossi's been playing in the centre of the 3 hasn't he? No need to be worried about him.

As long as Parker does a job on Pirlo and we give Mario a few kicks early on, I think we'll do alright.

He has been yeh. Played a kind of sweeper role and looked very impressive, 'libero' would be the FM term I believe! Causes a lot of problems with his diagonal passes from the back. He'll probably be even more worrying now he's moved back into midfield, will give Pirlo a bit more of a license to do his thang. That said, Gerrard and Parker have been immense so far and if they can keep that level of performance up we should be OK.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: mystical_goat on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 17:55:24
And the likelihood of us winning a penalty shootout isn't great.

How's that then? I make it about 50/50.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: leefer on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:02:27
Come on England.....lets smash em.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Gnasher on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:18:00
We'll win. It's tradition to lose to Germany in the semis!


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Notts red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:20:17
Think we will win tonight. Balotelli will either score or get set off or even both but we will still win.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:28:14
Nor should you...we've never beaten a major country in a knock out stage of a tournament outside England.  There's a first time for everything, but the dreaded pens looks our best option.

Just like we have never beaten the hosts in a tournament or never beaten Sweden in a competitive game.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: tans on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:29:09
I think we will win tonight.

If we do, who knows what can happen


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Notts red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:34:24
I think we will win tonight.

If we do, who knows what can happen
Think we go to the semis  :)


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: red socks on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:37:58
Think we go to the semis  :)

And lose on pens to the Germans.......  >:(


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonah on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:38:37
We'll lose 2 - 0. Flat performance. Shite game. Normal order will be resumed.....



Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:48:15
wow-wee


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Summerof69 on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:50:03
Could be 1-1 already...


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:50:12
Well there's been more excitement in the first 4 minutes than the entire Spain France match last night.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:57:15
what was buffon up to there?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Summerof69 on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:58:15
what was buffon up to there?

Doing his Lanzano impersanation....


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 18:59:49
we really need to take advantage here


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:08:49
Interesting match, one minute the italians look ready to step up a gear, but don't, then england start to look like their getting their act together, but don't.   Very entertaining though.



Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:11:30
Balotelli is a hell of a character but I don't see him as a world class striker, to not even properly trouble England with that break then is awful.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonah on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:31:27
Rooney seems a bit out of sorts .........


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:33:48
He's slightly less shit than he was against the Ukraine though.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:35:30
not really sure why welbeck started.  when we have posession italy are pretty deep and he's done a decent job of winning flick-ons etc but he's been nowhere near being on the shoulder of the last man looking to get beyond them.

seems to me welbeck is doing what caroll would be doing?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Bogus Dave on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:36:20
Rooney and welbeck have been gash. I'd swap welbeck for carroll as soon as really, at least have a better chance of holding the ball up then. Apart from a ten minute spell at the start of the half, Italy have dominated the flow of the game


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: DRS on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:40:54
Whatever happened to the man marker?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: carbonwhite on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:50:51
Milner has been shite yet again how he has managed to start 4 games is beyond me


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:51:54
With misses like De Rossi's ever get the feeling England are going to sneak this? If I could get onto my bet365 account I'd be backing england now. But I can't because Bet365 is shite.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 19:52:22
Tonight is your night bro....


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:08:34
Defender tries to pull Terry to the floor but falls over when he loses his grip & the ref gives Italy a free kick.  :)


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonah on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:17:28
We're giving ITaly so much time on the ball - no harrying. Italy on the other hand are harrying us in to making mistakes... so frustrating..


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:18:43
We are the anti-Spain !


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Costanza on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:20:22
We're just not as good as Italy, no shame in that. However, we're somehow hanging in and occasionally having an effort so the hope is still there.

I've been quite relaxed throughout this game.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:29:05
Bit frustrated with our passing second half. They are Premier League players, they can make 10 yard passes. But not tonight.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Costanza on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:33:28
We are clearly nervous, the defence have have put a shift in.

Happy to have got this far.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:35:38
Hate John Terry, but he's played bloody well tonight. Gerrard needs to get back into the game.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Summerof69 on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:39:21
Hate John Terry, but he's played bloody well tonight. Gerrard needs to get back into the game.

Terry should've had two pens. Blatant shirt pulling by the Italians. Five officials and they still cannot get the decision right.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:44:56
Jordan Henderson, really :no:


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Bogus Dave on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:46:41
Jordan Henderson, really :no:


WHO THE FUCK ELSE WOULD HE BRING ON IN CENTER MID


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:48:57
WHO THE FUCK ELSE WOULD HE BRING ON IN CENTER MID

Phil Jones, we may as well play with an extra defender as we are trying to hang on anyway.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:49:33
maybe he's a fab penalty taker


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:50:18
maybe he's a fab penalty taker

Good point well made without shouting ;)


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 20:52:07
If one of your outfield players was a superb penalty stopper, could you let him go between the sticks in a shoot out?  Actually thinking about it the answer must be yes, as if your keeper got injured they'd have to do that anyway.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonah on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:11:01
jesus - we may as well just give the ball to Italy intentionally.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:13:04
Is it David Platt time yet?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:14:18
Italy haven't got a great penalty record themselves kids.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: stfcinbmth on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:15:24
So, has it been a good game to watch?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:17:02
Eng won a euro 1/4 final pen shoot out v Spain, after conceding a disallowed offside goal in extra time. Omen?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:20:30
ooooooohhhhhh


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:21:39
It's times like this I'm glad we never get through the group stages, or in recent years get anyway near a tournament. I couldn't handle this!


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:22:54
nonononono


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:23:03
Young.....doh!


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:24:21
Same old England


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:25:00
oh well


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:25:21
Best team won.



Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Stef Troll on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:25:47
Victory for football


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Costanza on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:26:00
Justice for the Italians.

Another clip for the montage reel.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Gnasher on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:26:44
To be honest, I couldn't face seeing Young in an England shirt again.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:26:47
And a Pizza hut Ashley special advert


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:27:29
You can't even feel disappointed when you've been that shit for 75 minutes.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:27:46
To be honest, I couldn't face seeing Young in an England shirt again.
Agreed.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:27:49
wonder if baines was ever close to getting on, would he have if parker didn't come off?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:27:56
Italians deserved their victory, but I have to say I admire the way Hodgson has brought a resilience to the team. Fair play to england, quarter finals was just about right for this tournament.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:28:34
Can't be too disappointed, Italy should of won it before penalties. Same old England...


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:28:55
Italians deserved their victory, but I have to say I admire the way Hodgson has brought a resilience to the team. Fair play to england, quarter finals was just about right for this tournament.

Yup. No complaints. Can't see the Germans shitting it against Italy though, even though they were miles better than us.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Samdy Gray on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:29:27
Football prevailed.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: walcot red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:32:40
Better team won, as has been said before its hard to feel disappointed when were shit for most of the game. Hart I think was the best player of the game.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: bigbobjoylove on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:33:24
Italy will be play exactly like we did tonight against Germany and get beat.

We did alright in this tourney with a very limited team. Players & coaching staff gave it their best but just not good enough tonight.

Paolo will be happy at least.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Flashheart on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:34:29
I thought we were good in the first half



Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:34:40
Guess people are forgetting the pens we should have had?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Summerof69 on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:37:43
Guess people are forgetting the pens we should have had?

I haven't. I mentioned it earlier. The refs have only given 2 pens all tournament, and the defenders know they are getting away with it.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Not that Nice If I'm Honest on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:41:24
We need to build a team around Rooney


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Stef Troll on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:41:49
Where was the guy from the mars bar advert when England needed him


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: leefer on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:42:03
Italians deserved their victory, but I have to say I admire the way Hodgson has brought a resilience to the team. Fair play to england, quarter finals was just about right for this tournament.

Spot on.

How many times do we have to lead on pens and still blow it though.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Summerof69 on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:42:04
I'm not going to bite....


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:43:00
We need to build a team around Rooney

Ok we get it yeah.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: pericarp on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:43:33
Well England knocked out makes for a better semi-final.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Jimmy Glass is an Alien on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:44:53
We need to build a team around Rooney

Really?

What evidence do you have club or country to warrant that statement?

I'm sorry but I don't see what he has that makes him so special. He's just a better version of Lee Peacock. He'll run all day for you and might ping a decent ball once in a while but I can't see what else he offers.

I felt absolutely nothing towards England and that game tonight. Don't get me wrong, it was a decent game but I couldn't care if England won or not.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:45:36
Really?

What evidence do you have club or country to warrant that statement?

I'm sorry but I don't see what he has that makes him so special. He's just a better version of Lee Peacock. He'll run all day for you and might ping a decent ball once in a while but I can't see what else he offers.

United have, and he's brilliant.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: pericarp on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:46:00
United have, and he's brilliant.

This.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: leefer on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:46:23
What is it with people keep goading the English players....almost like people want England to lose just to knock certain players.

Any team in the world would have Rooney.....fact.



Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:46:53
Rooney and young were absolute fucking shite tonight. Did Henderson touch the ball when he came on. Gerrard was also shite. Overall we did better than I thought we would but Italy weren't that good. Fair play to Hodgson and very dignified in defeat.
Lets now hope that the golden generation fuck off and build a young side


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:48:36
What is it with people keep goading the English players....almost like people want England to lose just to knock certain players.

Any team in the world would have Rooney.....fact.



You just had to feed the troll didn't you  :doh:


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: pericarp on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:49:06
Rooney and young were absolute fucking shite tonight. Did Henderson touch the ball when he came on. Gerrard was also shite. Overall we did better than I thought we would but Italy weren't that good. Fair play to Hodgson and very dignified in defeat.
Lets now hope that the golden generation fuck off and build a young side

I recall Henderson making one sideward pass.

Rooney and Young were both shit, agreed.
Gerrard was okay.
Scott Parker was his usual self.

Young was shit.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Jimmy Glass is an Alien on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:49:26
What is it with people keep goading the English players....almost like people want England to lose just to knock certain players.

Any team in the world would have Rooney.....fact.



Spain?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:49:37
Any team in the world would have Rooney.....fact.
Would they fuck. We have and a fat lot of fucking good its done us. Rooney is a fucking liability at big tournaments - whether its nerves or just trying too hard but he's been a complete cunt at tounrnaments other than 2004.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:50:57
Spain?

Rooney is usually brilliant with the ball, great at passing. He would be a perfect striker for Spain.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: leefer on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:51:09
Would they fuck. We have and a fat lot of fucking good its done us. Rooney is a fucking liability at big tournaments - whether its nerves or just trying too hard but he's been a complete cunt at tounrnaments other than 2004.

Get a grip eh Chalks....fuck me he played two matches scoring the winner in one.



Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Gnasher on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:51:18
Would they fuck. We have and a fat lot of fucking good its done us. Rooney is a fucking liability at big tournaments - whether its nerves or just trying too hard but he's been a complete cunt at tounrnaments other than 2004.

Agreed. We had a much better shape in the first two games, without him.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: wiggy on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:51:26
Looking forward I don't think things look too bad. Players like Dawson, Cahill and Wilshere to come back will help. We need to give the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain as much experience as we can over the next 2 years.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:52:30
Looking forward I don't think things look too bad. Players like Dawson, Cahill and Wilshere to come back will help. We need to give the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain as much experience as we can over the next 2 years.

Wow I wish we had Wilshire, he's a Scott Parker who can keep possesion.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:55:06
Get a grip eh Chalks....fuck me he played two matches scoring the winner in one.
We'll agree to disagree. I'd very happilly leave him out of the England squad and build a team rather than a few players who give the ball to him. he may be a great player but he's not a great England player.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Not that Nice If I'm Honest on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:55:11
You just had to feed the troll didn't you  :doh:

So having an opinion about an over-rated player, makes me a troll ?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: tans on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:55:39
Ashley Young has been absolute wank all tournament.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: walcot red on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:56:11
I don't think we'll ever win a major tournament in my lifetime. we're a quater final team at best. fair play to hodgson he made us a hard to beat team we just lack the cutting edge.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:56:48
I hate the guy, but must admit John Terry was brilliant tonight, as was Glen Johnson.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 21:59:47
Rooney is a class act. If he had stayed upfront instead of dropping deep and wide all the time he may have netted more and had a better tournament. Why he was the one supposedly to try to stop pirlo i'll never know?
He tried to do too much and it didn't work. It's that simple imo.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Not that Nice If I'm Honest on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:00:40
Ashley Young has been absolute wank all tournament.

Troll (aparently)


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: joteddyred on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:01:22
How's that then? I make it about 50/50.

Only 1 win on penalties in 8 attempts prior to tonight didn't make the odds 50/50.

We didn't deserve to win, but after hanging on for so long, you couldn't help but wonder if it might be our night.  Too many players not in the game.  Gerrard probably had his least effective game, Rooney was clearly struggling from around 60 mins and constantly gave the ball away. As for Young, his penalty summed up his whole tournament utter dogshite.  How he's played every minute of every game is beyond me.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:01:45
perhaps if barry hadn't been out then we could have had gerrard take that job with barry and parker deeper and only the one up top (rooney)


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Not that Nice If I'm Honest on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:02:06
Rooney is a class act. If he had stayed upfront instead of dropping deep and wide all the time he may have netted more and had a better tournament. Why he was the one supposedly to try to stop pirlo i'll never know?
He tried to do too much and it didn't work. It's that simple imo.

Jesus


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:03:50
Jesus

Better. I am not a myth


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: leefer on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:04:33
Troll (aparently)

Rooney is a class act. If he had stayed upfront instead of dropping deep and wide all the time he may have netted more and had a better tournament. Why he was the one supposedly to try to stop pirlo i'll never know?
He tried to do too much and it didn't work. It's that simple imo.

Yep....no one has mentioned Walcot either.........absolute dire tonight,no cosistency at all in his game.
His pace should have made it a tough second half for the Italian defence.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:05:51
Yep....no one has mentioned Walcot either.........absolute dire tonight,no cosistency at all in his game.
His pace should have made it a tough second half for the Italian defence.

Much prefer Chamberlain, has a better end product and seems more consistent than Walcott.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Dr Pierre Chang on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:07:34
Some of the views on here, mainly relating to Rooney, are beyond belief. Clueless. I can only assume you have been drinking all day.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:07:44
Thought the back four has played well together in this tournament. Lescott has grown into an international. Cole has been excellent for years. Terry is a 110% trier (althougk he's a horrible man). Johnson has been solid, although prone to the odd gaff and wasteful in possession.

Tonight things went downhill quickly when Carroll came on. He and Rooney had no pace between them, which meant they caused no threat. Not sure what Walcott has done in the last 2 games. He has been totally anonymous.

Thought Parker had his most influential game of the tournament. Looked to do more than just break up play in the first half.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:08:27
Some of the views on here, mainly relating to Rooney, are beyond belief. Clueless. I can only assume you have been drinking all day.
Why, he was shite both games


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: thedarkprince on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:08:36
I would've taken QFs before the tournament started so not disappointed. People on Five Live criticising Hodgson but not sure anyone could've done much better in the 5 weeks he had before it started a d, more importantly, with the players at his disposal.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Dr Pierre Chang on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:11:08
Why, he was shite both games
He got us three points against Ukraine and faced an uphill battle tonight with little service, add to that playing alongside a pub player in Carroll.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:11:39
Why do some people have such a problem with other people saying Rooney has been shit in the last two games when he so clearly has been?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Nemo on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:14:00
Rooney hasn't done much in either game but there's only so much you can expect of a striker when you have 37% possession. No disgrace tonight, we just weren't good enough and that was to expected when Hodgson had six weeks to sort this out and seemingly our "impact sub" option with Jordan fucking Henderson.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:14:37
Rooney hasn't done much in either game but there's only so much you can expect of a striker when you have 37% possession. No disgrace tonight, we just weren't good enough and that was to expected when Hodgson had six weeks to sort this out and seemingly our "impact sub" option with Jordan fucking Henderson.

Except score the winner in his first game.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:15:17
He got us three points against Ukraine and faced an uphill battle tonight with little service, add to that playing alongside a pub player in Carroll.
I think you are the one who has been on the piss. Go and kiss Rooney's ringpiece he has been a cunt and we'd have been better off with pub player Carroll alongside Wellbeck.  


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: carbonwhite on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:16:54
 :suicide: it was hardly a 30 yard scorcher was it.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Dr Pierre Chang on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:17:34
I think you are the one who has been on the piss. Go and kiss Rooney's ringpiece he has been a cunt and we'd have been better off with pub player Carroll alongside Wellbeck.  
So he didn't score the winner against Ukraine and he faced an easy task tonight?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: carbonwhite on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:18:41
Think we have a few closet glory fans in here.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:20:22
So he didn't score the winner against Ukraine and he faced an easy task tonight?

He did score the winner against Ukraine despite playing absolute shite and effectively marking Wellbecik out of the game by making the same runs and taking his space. In the big games you're looking for your big players to step up and he has constantly failed since 2004 for England.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: thedarkprince on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:22:47
He did score the winner against Ukraine despite playing absolute shite and effectively marking Wellbecik out of the game by making the same runs and taking his space. In the big games you're looking for your big players to step up and he has constantly failed since 2004 for England.

Agreed, for two club mates they seemed to have little understanding of each other's runs.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Not that Nice If I'm Honest on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:23:06
Except score the winner in his first game.

He had three sitters and scored one - from about 6 inches out.
I'm pretty sure the cross would have gone in anyway.

People say it's difficult if we only have 30% possession, but he still recived the ball on countless ocassions, and when he actually managed to control it, he usually gave it away straight away.

I would actually be pissed off if a pub team player gave the ball away that often.

Actually, that's a ridiculous statement..............what pub side would pick a striker who has scored one goal in 20 games


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:23:23
Rooney is our best striker in the squad, but it was obvious he was a mile off being match fit.  Problem is - don't play him then he doesn't improve his sharpness, but play him and he is largely a passenger.

On balance I'd have 1/2 fit Rooney in ahead of Defoe, besides which the way we played all three strikers were largely ineffective.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:24:18
..............what pub side would pick a striker who has scored one goal in 20 games

In some of the pub sides I've played in that's known as a hot streak


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: leefer on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:27:01
Agreed, for two club mates they seemed to have little understanding of each other's runs.

Wellbeck was quality this euros.....his all round game for a youngster was outstanding.

In fact i would say Woys only mistake the whole tournament was taking him off tonight so early.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:27:32
He had three sitters and scored one - from about 6 inches out.
I'm pretty sure the cross would have gone in anyway.

People say it's difficult if we only have 30% possession, but he still recived the ball on countless ocassions, and when he actually managed to control it, he usually gave it away straight away.

I would actually be pissed off if a pub team player gave the ball away that often.

Actually, that's a ridiculous statement..............what pub side would pick a striker who has scored one goal in 20 games

Was at the right place at the right time.

And what else was Rooney meant to do? When your recieving constant long balls and the second you control it there are four players around you and there is only one player infront of him. The Italians did what we should of done to Pirlo, mark him out of the game.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Berniman on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:27:56
Gotta love us English.  Love nothing more than an excuse to say we are shit.  That's one of the reasons why we won't win anything.  We should save this thread as an example.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Berniman on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:29:16
Or that fucking Rooney thread I have just seen.  Jeez


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: carbonwhite on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:30:15
Was at the right place at the right time.

And what else was Rooney meant to do? When your recieving constant long balls and the second you control it there are four players around you and there is only one player infront of him. The Italians did what we should of done to Pirlo, mark him out of the game.
If that was Messi he would of walked the ball into the back of the net.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Swindon Please Win on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:30:51
And that's why Messi is the best player in the world...


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:31:30
Gotta love us English.  Love nothing more than an excuse to say we are shit.  That's one of the reasons why we won't win anything.  We should save this thread as an example.

You're right and its making me cringe reading this forum tonight.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: thedarkprince on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:33:29
Gotta love us English.  Love nothing more than an excuse to say we are shit.  That's one of the reasons why we won't win anything.  We should save this thread as an example.

Id say it was more our lack of technical ability more than a load of keyboard warriors whinging...


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:37:57
At least we aint dutch eh.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonny72 on Sunday, June 24, 2012, 22:43:59
Agreed, for two club mates they seemed to have little understanding of each other's runs.

Think the problem with playing Rooney and Welbeck is that whilst they might work together at Man Utd, it won't work for England when you play totally different tactics with totally different players. I thought they were both poor for the entire tournament and Carroll was our best forward, mainly due to the tactics we were playing - when you're defending a lot you want someone to hold the ball up and get on the end of crosses.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: DiV on Monday, June 25, 2012, 03:11:40
Was at the right place at the right time.

And what else was Rooney meant to do? When your recieving constant long balls and the second you control it there are four players around you and there is only one player infront of him. The Italians did what we should of done to Pirlo, mark him out of the game.

Well, if there were 4 players around Rooney then I'd put forward the suggestion that we pass it to one the other players, who must be free and have no one marking them.

Rooney was poor and has been in both games - looks like someone who had just come back from 2/3 months out injured. Was he injured towards the end of last season, I cant even remember? I know his suspension meant missed a few games and training isnt the same - but you have to question what Rooney was doing in the gap between the end of the season and now.

All the other players managed to put a shift in, in all 4 games but Rooney just never looked match fit.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, June 25, 2012, 06:31:51
Why do some people have such a problem with other people saying Rooney has been shit in the last two games when he so clearly has been?

Cos The Sun says he's world class innit blud.

If we are ever to do anything at a tournament, then the FA needs to insist on reducing the Prem to 18 clubs, and have a mid season break.

The Prem is a pin ball league based on pace, power and athleticism. These are the attributes which the players lose at the end of a Prem season.

Answer this question. How many Prem players are playing in the last 4 of the Euros.....I make the answer about 4.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Dr Pierre Chang on Monday, June 25, 2012, 06:40:17
Our problems run much further than simply taking 2 teams out of the top flight and giving them time off mid season, Reg.

We haven't got the players, simple as that.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: DRS on Monday, June 25, 2012, 06:51:07
Midfield lost us that match imo.Couldn't call on lampard,barry,carrick or wilshire either.I would argue we couldn't even play our prefered team last night due to that.Milner had to play right to cover johnson so couldnt go in the middle either


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR on Monday, June 25, 2012, 07:05:26
You're right and its making me cringe reading this forum tonight.
Sorry, did I miss something? Did we actually play well? People are just reacting to what they've seen, nothing else. No one is 'looking for an excuse' to say Engand were shit, we just were. It was there for everyone to see - what do you expect people to say?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Sippo on Monday, June 25, 2012, 07:07:38
I don't agree with this 'rest' and mid season break. The spanish team do ok, and half of them have played well over 40 games during the season.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Samdy Gray on Monday, June 25, 2012, 07:24:10
Must be that mid-season break they have ;)


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 25, 2012, 07:38:15
fucking hell, the next rasict to hopefully get done on twitter,
@Lapwnage
Shocking tweets


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Monday, June 25, 2012, 08:08:13
Sorry, did I miss something? Did we actually play well? People are just reacting to what they've seen, nothing else. No one is 'looking for an excuse' to say Engand were shit, we just were. It was there for everyone to see - what do you expect people to say?

I think people were going  ott with the slating of players-reasons we lost etc. The cracks were papered over in the group stage and the improvement didn't happen which was needed to progress. That said, progress was made by Woy overall and things will improve. He is the right man or the job and did well in a short space of time.

We had chances,penalty shouts, and first half made a great game of it. I think there are positives to take from it


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Sippo on Monday, June 25, 2012, 08:08:58
Must be that mid-season break they have ;)

The point is that other players have played a lot more games yet still perform. We can't use the excuse of tiredness all the time. England were outclassed. Simple as.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: wiggy on Monday, June 25, 2012, 08:26:32
I think people were going  ott with the slating of players-reasons we lost etc. The cracks were papered over in the group stage and the improvement didn't happen which was needed to progress. That said, progress was made by Woy overall and things will improve. He is the right man or the job and did well in a short space of time.

We had chances,penalty shouts, and first half made a great game of it. I think there are positives to take from it

Agree with this.

I think we are on the verge of a new dawn for the national team. Not saying we are going to be world beaters, but I cvertainly hope we will be younger, hungrier, better organised and more competetive. We have a good crop of young players coming through, and I think the right manager to get the best out if them. Now all we need is for the FA to just leave Roy to it and not interfere. Also need the tabloids not to go mental if Roy decides to drop the last of the old guard (not saying Terry and Gerrard didn't do well in this tournament, just that we need to look to plan for ther next one).


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: mrverve on Monday, June 25, 2012, 08:26:38
It's the same old story with England, can't keep the ball, run around the pitch chasing wasting energy, finally win the ball but are too fatigued to do anything with it.

Maybe the reason the other teams are less tired isn't because of winter breaks (notice that the majority of the big clubs go to Asia etc. to play meaningless friendlies in that time anyway) but because they keep the ball better and thus are less inclined to tire early, just a thought.

I don't really get the criticism of Rooney either, you need to get the ball to him and when you have only 32% possession it doesn't exactly play to the attacking players' strengths does it?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: DMR on Monday, June 25, 2012, 08:28:06
Magnificent defensive effort, just a shame the attacking players never offered an outlet to release the pressure.

Young and Rooney were appalling as they are alledgedly the talented ones in a mediocre side.

QF exit was about what we should have expected, just a shame we never had a go at them.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 25, 2012, 08:30:33
England were outclassed. Simple as.

Yup, sometimes a team play better than you because the ARE better than you. Like yesterday.

We are a top 8 European side, and we got to the quater finals. This is despite the FA's incompetence at appointing a manager with sufficient time to do any preparation, and a few injuries/sulks (Carrick) meaning the squad we took was probably not the very best it could have been.

Rebuild time now for 2014.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Bathtime on Monday, June 25, 2012, 08:33:02
Tactically out played - clever Italians closed us down in mid field coz that`s they way they play the game. Second half was pretty poor and Rooney way off the pace however had he connected with that over head then....! Far too many times the ball was passed back to Hart who kicked aimlessly up field. If Walcott is going to come on then someone needs to pass the ball to him and Carroll to be honest can head the ball but not much else. He ended up defending....Young had such a poor game I was surprised to see him line up for the penalty....I have seen so many penalty shoot outs lost that I am not sure how it would feel if England actually won one...probably disappointed coz then I couldn`t whinge on about how shit England play...looking forward to Andy Murray being hammered in the semi final again and lots of silver / bronze medals in the Olympics  


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: fittons_coaching_badge on Monday, June 25, 2012, 08:40:09
This is where Roy will earn his corn.  Plenty of players on whom he will have to make a decision with regards to there international futures. Terry, Ashley Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Barry, Parker will all be well into their 30's by Brazil 2014.  I dont see them as the retiring types so balls in Roys court!

A chance in a weak qualifying group to blood the likes of Cleverly, Wilshire, Rodwell, Kyle Walker, Phil Jones ..... But until these players learn to cherish and keep the ball England will continue to fail at the highest level.

Like I said in an earlier post somewhere ... I want to see some youngsters go ply their trade in a foreign league such as Spain or Italy where possesion in 9/10 of the law rather than the get it forward ASAP nature of the EPL.

I am 30.  Will England win something in my lifetime?  I aint loving the chances!


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: fuzzy on Monday, June 25, 2012, 09:36:14
We were never going to win this competition so I'm not dissapointed that we didn't win lat night.

I am dissapointed by the way some of us played.

Please excuse me while I commence an egg sucking lesson but here goes-

To win games you need to score goals.

To score goals you need to have possession of the ball.

To have possession of the ball you either a) need to win it off the opposition, b) pass it to someone playing for the same team as you c) stop passing the ball to someone on your team who is surrounded by the opposition or d) stop trying to dribble the ball through a crowd of opposition players.

Too often last night we wasted what little possession we had through wayward passing, not finding enough space or being too believing in our ability to run the ball through the Italians.

On the upside, Roy now has four competitive matches under his belt and can use the knowledge gained towards the next competition.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: carbonwhite on Monday, June 25, 2012, 14:14:15
anyone defending rooney are obvious man united scum  :suicide:


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, June 25, 2012, 15:50:15
Our problems run much further than simply taking 2 teams out of the top flight and giving them time off mid season, Reg.

We haven't got the players, simple as that.

We do have players, but they're knackered out by the latter stages of tournaments, which doesn't give them the best chance. Of course, you can always do with more players of a better ability, but as I said before I think there are 5 players who play in the Prem, who are in the semis of the Euros....countries with smaller leagues and mid season breaks tend to do better.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: bigbobjoylove on Monday, June 25, 2012, 15:52:59
[url width=620 height=400]http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/598774_10151021711954238_650166929_n.jpg[/url]

Good try.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: walcot red on Monday, June 25, 2012, 15:55:06
We do have players, but they're knackered out by the latter stages of tournaments, which doesn't give them the best chance. Of course, you can always do with more players of a better ability, but as I said before I think there are 5 players who play in the Prem, who are in the semis of the Euros....countries with smaller leagues and mid season breaks tend to do better.

Do the Spainish leagues have a mid season break? and don't they have the same number of teams as the Epl?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: mystical_goat on Monday, June 25, 2012, 16:02:34
[url width=620 height=400]http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/598774_10151021711954238_650166929_n.jpg[/url]

Good try.

I'm not one for smileys but that's brilliant. The crossed arms set the look off nicely .

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, June 25, 2012, 16:16:56
Do the Spainish leagues have a mid season break? and don't they have the same number of teams as the Epl?

Yes they do have a mid season break, and they have a 20 team top flight...the Spaniards have been saying though thier somewhat lacklustre performance so far is down to the number of games they play. When they played Italy, the Spaniards averaged 8 games more a season than the Italians.

I'll use Ireland to back the argument...mostly composed of Prem League players, although some of whom don't play much like Coxy, and easily the worst of the 16 teams present.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonny72 on Monday, June 25, 2012, 16:27:37
I don't buy the need for a mid-season break argument, even if there was one the clubs would just organise more friendlies, or the number of cup games would end up being increased.

There are plenty of other sports that have longer playing seasons than the PL, baseball and basketball in the US being good examples. The difference is that in other sports the clubs manage their players workload a lot better, rather than driving them to physical exhaustion.

So we don't need less competitive games, just more responsibility from the PL clubs.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, June 25, 2012, 16:40:10
I don't buy the need for a mid-season break argument, even if there was one the clubs would just organise more friendlies, or the number of cup games would end up being increased.

There are plenty of other sports that have longer playing seasons than the PL, baseball and basketball in the US being good examples. The difference is that in other sports the clubs manage their players workload a lot better, rather than driving them to physical exhaustion.

So we don't need less competitive games, just more responsibility from the PL clubs.

There are plenty of other sports where players speak out about burn out, for example in tennis, where they had some sort of strike, or at least a threat, a while back.

The PL clubs are happy with things just the way they are....they don't give a shit about England...and like the fact the helter skelter nature of the Prem, attracts a global audience, whereas the more measured style of other national leagues doesn't.

The FA, originally endorsed the Prem breakaway on the basis it would be good for the national side, unfortunately the FA is now toothless, so doesn't have the clout to make the necessary changes, so the whole thing will continue to repeat on a biennial cycle.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: DRS on Monday, June 25, 2012, 18:00:52
What we need is better coaching at a young level.Everyone was banging on about we are crying out for a player like pirlo,we got one.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR on Monday, June 25, 2012, 18:03:32
What we need is better coaching at a young level.Everyone was banging on about we are crying out for a player like pirlo,we got one.
People have been saying this for at least the last 40 years to my knowledge and yet nothing ever changes.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Kinky Tom on Monday, June 25, 2012, 18:11:14
i thought the reform was announced 3 weeks ago


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonny72 on Monday, June 25, 2012, 18:15:52
The PL clubs are happy with things just the way they are....they don't give a shit about England...and like the fact the helter skelter nature of the Prem, attracts a global audience, whereas the more measured style of other national leagues doesn't.

I'm not saying the PL clubs should rest players for summer international tournaments but it's in their interests for players not to suffer from burn out and the inevitable injuries that follow. Maybe things will change a bit now that players are being insured at major tournaments and the clubs are seeing more of the money.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Monday, June 25, 2012, 18:17:56
What England need is bigger cocks.

https://p.twimg.com/AwQK1ULCAAAptrm.jpg:large


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Monday, June 25, 2012, 22:13:39
What we need is better coaching at a young level.Everyone was banging on about we are crying out for a player like pirlo,we got one.

What like the dutch model that has been bigged up for years? Didn't do them much good.
The better coaching thing is not the problem imo,not at the top English clubs at least.

England are a second tier football nation and have always been that in my lifetime. Means we get close and may get the odd success but generally are a bit behind the top countries. Don't think anything will change that myself


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: DRS on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 06:30:56
Not like the dutch no.I would like us to at least start teaching our youngsters how to keep the ball. They may get the better coaching at top clubs but problem is by the time they get to the top clubs they are 14/15 the type of players they are is already determined


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: london_red on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 06:57:09
Think the coaching in this country is definitely an issue, maybe bar a tiny percentage at the very top clubs.

These numbers are a little out of date I think but illustrate the point -

Number of UEFA 'A' and 'B' licensed coaches:

England - 2,796

Spain - 23,995

Italy - 29,240

Germany - 34,970


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Bob's Orange on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 07:16:00
What like the dutch model that has been bigged up for years? Didn't do them much good.
The better coaching thing is not the problem imo,not at the top English clubs at least.

England are a second tier football nation and have always been that in my lifetime. Means we get close and may get the odd success but generally are a bit behind the top countries. Don't think anything will change that myself

But we do have the best league in the world!


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Sippo on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 07:19:21
With a lot of foreign players...


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 07:20:18
But we do have the best league in the world!
Which is made up mostly of overpaid foreigners.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Bob's Orange on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 07:30:52
Glad we're all on the same page!!


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: RWB Robin on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 08:19:21
Anyone notice how few English throw-ins reach their intended target?  Italian throws became an intergal part of their superiority - they used them to create chances.  I think this is symptomatic of the problem - players do not want to receive the ball and instead of moving positively into space make it almost impossible for the thrower to get it to them.  The constant 'patient build-up' - or in other words, crossing backwards and forwards across the back line, or back to the GK (Of which Jamie Carragher used to be the supreme example) gives opponents all the time they need to close down the options.  Then  watch the Spanish - or the Italians for that matter, the close passing always to targets moving forward... and you have the key difference - and I think that's confidence.  Yes, Gerrard was brilliant at long cross-field passes from time to time, but generally the moves from defence, once they happened, tended to be half-hearted kicks half way up the field.  This became slightly more effective, potentially, when Carroll came on. because he is brilliant at winning the ball in the air (like Benson at STFC) and holding it...the trouble is he can't distribute it either!!





Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: matt_jada on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 10:04:06
Wasn't just Hart trying desperately to put him off, take a look behind the goal  :clap:


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: DMR on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 10:16:20
Hahahahahaha


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonny72 on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 13:07:35
The simple reason for why we're shit and never win anything is that we are crap at penalty shoot outs. If we can sort this out we will win tournaments, the facts speak for themselves....

Germany have won 5 penalty shoot outs (out of 6), going on to win two trophies.
France have won 3 (out of 6), going on to win one trophy.
Italy have won 3 (out of 7), going on to win one trophy.
Spain have won 3 (out of 6), going on to win one trophy.
England have won 1 (out of 7), going on to lose in semi.
Holland have won 1 (out of 5), going on to lose in semi.

If we had won 3 or 4 of our penalty shoot outs we would have won at least one trophy as a result. Fact.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Matchworn Shirts on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 13:28:08
If we had won 3 or 4 of our penalty shoot outs we would have won at least one trophy as a result. Fact.

The two times you lost in the shootout to us, you might well have won the competitions - esp EM1996



Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: donkey on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 16:25:51
The two times you lost in the shootout to us, you might well have won the competitions - esp EM1996



I would have said esp. 1990 as Argentina were very beatable.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 16:34:14
The simple reason for why we're shit and never win anything is that we are crap at penalty shoot outs. If we can sort this out we will win tournaments, the facts speak for themselves....

Germany have won 5 penalty shoot outs (out of 6), going on to win two trophies.
France have won 3 (out of 6), going on to win one trophy.
Italy have won 3 (out of 7), going on to win one trophy.
Spain have won 3 (out of 6), going on to win one trophy.
England have won 1 (out of 7), going on to lose in semi.
Holland have won 1 (out of 5), going on to lose in semi.

If we had won 3 or 4 of our penalty shoot outs we would have won at least one trophy as a result. Fact.

Ludicrously, there's an element of truth in this....the Spanish have a terrible record v Italy, they dislike the Italian cynical approach to the game, and haven't managed to beat them so far in this Euro. They reckon it was beating them on pens in Euro 2008, which allowed them to get the monkey off their back about being perennial underachievers, and go on to win a Euro and a WC.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: bigbobjoylove on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 17:02:49
I would have said esp. 1990 as Argentina were very beatable.

Not with Nestor Lorenzo marshalling the defence they weren't. Alright, he was marshalling from the bench but hey ho.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonny72 on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 17:40:18
Ludicrously, there's an element of truth in this....the Spanish have a terrible record v Italy, they dislike the Italian cynical approach to the game, and haven't managed to beat them so far in this Euro. They reckon it was beating them on pens in Euro 2008, which allowed them to get the monkey off their back about being perennial underachievers, and go on to win a Euro and a WC.

Penalties are a lottery so you have to ask why we lose so many. I don't think it's because we're inherently bad at taking penalties, the problem for me is that our players lack confidence and bottle it. You can go on about coaching, youth development, fatigue and whatever but until our players get the confidence level that German players have we're going to continue being shit and under achieving.

If I was Hodgson my first priority would be sorting out the mental state of our players. Get in a team of the best sports psychologists and get them working with our top 40 players and then include it on an ongoing basis as part of the training.

I'd probably get all the main media in the country together as well to see what could be done to sort out all the negative press and turn it round in to positive and supportive coverage. Don't think this would be too difficult as the media can be bought if the right package is on the table.

The final thing I'd do is to increase the penalty shoot outs in domestic competitions to give players more real experience of them. Maybe have a penalty shoot out before every cup game, rather than just at the end of a draw. Will stop both teams being happy holding out for penalties as one of them will know they've already lost if it goes that far, plus it will give players more experience.

It does sound stupid but the facts speak for themselves, we need to become the best at penalty shoot outs if we're ever going to start winning international tournaments.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: adje on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 17:45:33
What we need is better coaching at a young level.Everyone was banging on about we are crying out for a player like pirlo,we got one.

Its a fair point but I reckon there is too much coaching at a young level-kids should be just running around up the park with a ball at their feet,preferably playing with and against the bigger boys-that teaches you how to enjoy the ball and keep it.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: adje on Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 17:50:28
Penalties are a lottery so you have to ask why we lose so many. I don't think it's because we're inherently bad at taking penalties, the problem for me is that our players lack confidence and bottle it. You can go on about coaching, youth development, fatigue and whatever but until our players get the confidence level that German players have we're going to continue being shit and under achieving.

If I was Hodgson my first priority would be sorting out the mental state of our players. Get in a team of the best sports psychologists and get them working with our top 40 players and then include it on an ongoing basis as part of the training.

I'd probably get all the main media in the country together as well to see what could be done to sort out all the negative press and turn it round in to positive and supportive coverage. Don't think this would be too difficult as the media can be bought if the right package is on the table.

The final thing I'd do is to increase the penalty shoot outs in domestic competitions to give players more real experience of them. Maybe have a penalty shoot out before every cup game, rather than just at the end of a draw. Will stop both teams being happy holding out for penalties as one of them will know they've already lost if it goes that far, plus it will give players more experience.

It does sound stupid but the facts speak for themselves, we need to become the best at penalty shoot outs if we're ever going to start winning international tournaments.

Great points as usual J72 but I dont agree penalties are a lottery-they are a test of nerve and skill as you later point out.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 19:50:55
England's 0-0 draw with Italy not looking quite so shit at the moment :)


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Summerof69 on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 20:40:22
England's 0-0 draw with Italy not looking quite so shit at the moment :)

Especially now....


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: joteddyred on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 20:42:36
England's 0-0 draw with Italy not looking quite so shit at the moment :)

It makes you wonder 'what if' had we won the penalty shootout?


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Summerof69 on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 20:45:26
It makes you wonder what if had we one the penalty shootout?

Won !!!


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: janaage on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 20:54:07
Have you lot lost your memories? England played one decent side this tournament and were thoroughly out played. Not sure where this new found optimism comes from.

Although I will say I think Sunday's match would have been entirely different had england conceded in the first half, as it'd have meant you would have had to try and get something out of the match. The longer it went on goalless the more backs against the walls it became.

So maybe if you'd won on penalties, and then conceded early on, maybe england would have played alright.

But then again, if my auntie had bollocks, she'd be my uncle.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: joteddyred on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 21:00:18
Won !!!

Amended, wasn't thinking straight as have one eye on the tennis.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: DRS on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 21:01:01
Tbf we created our own chances against them and had 2 penalties turned away.Yes italy were the better team but fact is they have just convincingly beat a supposdly much better team.Be interesting to see how far the teams that have beaten england in recent history have actually gone


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: jonny72 on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 21:23:02
Have you lot lost your memories? England played one decent side this tournament and were thoroughly out played. Not sure where this new found optimism comes from.

We didn't go out because we were out played over 120 minutes, we went out because we fucked up the penalties (again).

The funny thing is that if we had won on penalties everyone would be going on about our strong organisation, brave defending, well thought out tactics and so on rather than us being outplayed. Just look at how people view Chelsea's performances in the Champions League.

Whilst improving things such as youth coaching will help, the real problem is that we aren't a tournament team. It might be the pressure of expectation, might be the media, might be confidence or whatever but we need to address it. You only have to look at the German team of recent years to see it, they haven't got the best players but they perform in tournaments.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 22:09:44
England have to completely change their set up. They need to follow the French-Dutch-German models as it reaps the rewards  ::) ;)
Bollocks!!!!!!

If you have a world class player or two then you have a chance. Last time we did was Gazza and we went close.
Everything else,apart from trying to stifle is utter pie in the sky.


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: reeves4england on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 22:23:23
It's ok, we've just spent a few million on building some new fields and showers. We'll be winning world cups before you know it!


Title: Re: England v Italy match thread.
Post by: Posh Red on Thursday, June 28, 2012, 22:30:33
It's ok, we've just spent a few million on building some new fields and showers. We'll be winning world cups before you know it!

Hopefully they will build a section to learn how to score penalties.
Because until that happens England won't win anything.