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25% => Other Football Stuff => Topic started by: alanmayes on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:14:57



Title: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: alanmayes on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:14:57
Southend Utd are expected to enter Administration next week.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article6892085.ece


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:17:37
Southend Utd are expected to enter Administration next week.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article6892085.ece

Saw this earlier on the BBC site, -10 will take them to the foot of the table.

Do we want to keep Revell?


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: DiV on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:18:52
posted this last week, sort of...

....I'm pretty certain the Revell deal is done.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: alanmayes on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:20:09
Could we get Lee Barnard?


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:23:51
Could we get Lee Barnard?

I'd like to see the chairman claim he "has failed to live up to expectation".


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: DiV on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:24:58
Could we get Lee Barnard?

Contract runs out end of the season, worth ago.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Rustle on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:37:17
Could we get Lee Barnard?


Not a chance im afraid,he seems to be heading to the championship (Coventry) according to their fans.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: alanmayes on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:41:14

Not a chance im afraid,he seems to be heading to the championship (Coventry) according to their fans.

Freddie Eastwood to return to Southend as part of the deal,if Southend can get the embargo lifted?


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 15:42:40
The Revell deal was 'done' the day he came here on loan.  Two things...

1.  While SUFC were not yet in administration at that point, we all knew they were in financial difficulty.  Revell was offloaded because they could not afford him.  Without a new source of funding, Revell was never going to return to Roots Hall.

2.  The SUFC Chairman burned any bridges that were still standing with his (patently untrue) comments about AR failing to live up to expectations.  For once, it could be us offering the proverbial bag of footballs/bag of pork scratchings and getting our man for next to nothing.  At long last, I think this could heal the still open wounds inflicted when Jan left for Middlesbrough for a paltry £1.3 million.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: alanmayes on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 16:16:19
Accrington Stanley are also in the High Court this week facing a winding up order.

From the Guardian Website...


Fingers crossed for Accrington Stanley. The League Two club are due in the High Court to face a winding-up order brought by HM Customs and Revenue over an unpaid £308,000 tax bill. Let's hope history does not repeat itself and this is not a case of "back to the 1960s" for the Lancashire club.

At the time of writing the feeling was that Accrington would scramble together sufficient pennies from assorted jam jars and escape by the skin of their teeth. Certainly Dave O'Neill, the club's chairman, was in defiant mood at the start of the week.

"A few fans have said they are not sleeping," he said. "Let me do the not sleeping. Yes of course we are going to do it, we are going to meet it [the bill]. On a scale of one to 10 we are now a nine. The bank transfers will be done on Tuesday."

So far so confident – but then O'Neill admitted: "A guy who promised us £25,000 let us down so we are a little short at the moment."

Hats off though to the 67 fans from the Save Our Stanley campaign who walked from Accrington to Spotland at the weekend to raise £10,000 towards the tax bill before watching Stanley win 2-1 at Rochdale in what threatened to be the visitors' final game.

Afterwards John Coleman, Accrington Stanley's long-serving manager who believes he works to the Football League's smallest budget, proved pride personified. "There is a lot going on off the field," he said. "The players have had problems with their wages but they have put it all behind them. They have big hearts and even bigger attitudes."

There is a horrible element of deja vu in all this. After all the original Accrington Stanley – formed in 1891 and Football League members from 1921 to 1962 – folded under a debt mountain in 1966 after spending four seasons languishing in the Lancashire combination. Two years later a new club was re-born and began climbing its way back up the non-league pyramid.

Finally, in 2006, Accrington Stanley returned to League Two – ironically replacing Oxford United, the team they had lost their League place to back in March 1962 when they resigned due to debts of almost £64,000.

No one wants to see them wound up but Accrington's latest brush with extinction highlights the perilous financial tight-rope so many clubs are currently walking. Since Eric Whalley, the owner who steered the club through the last 14 seasons, stepped down and moved to Chester earlier this year things suddenly seem to have gone awry. But scrape beneath the surface and several League Two rivals will be privately fretting about similarly fragile finances.

How Stanley could do with producing another Brett Ormerod. When the non-league Accrington sold the forward to Blackpool for £50,000 in 1997 they sensibly inserted a sell-on clause entitling them to 25% of any resulting fee. So when Ormerod eventually moved on to Southampton for £1m, the resultant £250,000 facilitated Accrington's ascent towards League Two.

Stanley lie halfway between Burnley and Blackburn but some locals believe the intense rivalry generated by those two Premier League giants leaves little room for the re-direction of emotions to a League Two minnow.

In a world where Lancashire schoolchildren are almost always going to be drawn to Rovers or Burnley, if not even bigger clubs in Manchester or Liverpool, does it not seem inevitable that one day – possibly quite soon – Leagues Two and maybe even One will be forced to turn semi-professional?



Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: michael on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 18:04:50
That's another one then.

Fitton's "half dozen" prophecy is coming true.

He is like nostradamus.

8)


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 18:15:42
Southend were never going to have the money to fund their new stadium. It's all gone a bit pete tong for them.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: michael on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 18:19:34
I reckon it is splashing out on Kevin Betsy that has done this to them.

We dodged a bullet there lads.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: michael on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 18:20:12
and lasses.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 18:54:26
The Accrington one is a bit weird, they've had three or four offers of investment/cash injections (including one from their own fans) which they've turned down.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: tans on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 19:08:30
I can safely say i dont give a toss about Southend. The only club im worried about is my own.

I know that attitude stinks, but im sure they didnt give a fuck about us when we nearly went under...


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: reeves4england on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 19:35:25
The Accrington one is a bit weird, they've had three or four offers of investment/cash injections (including one from their own fans) which they've turned down.
I suppose it depends what form the investment took and what was wanted in return. I wouldn't imagine the fans who offered money would be out to rip the club off, but accepting the offer could still have left them in an even worse position had there been high interest rates on the loan


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 00:14:08
I suppose it depends what form the investment took and what was wanted in return. I wouldn't imagine the fans who offered money would be out to rip the club off, but accepting the offer could still have left them in an even worse position had there been high interest rates on the loan
I think the sticking point in all cases was not interest rates but that they all wanted shares/seats on the board etc which is pretty usual for a major investment along those lines. Which for me anyway put rather a different light on just how desparate their situation actually was - started to look more like the old familiar story of a board that had screwed up but didn't want to relinquish any control


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Barry Scott on Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 09:10:13
That's another one then.

Fitton's "half dozen" prophecy is coming true.

He is like nostradamus.

8)

He is. And like i mentioned in another thread, clubs will continue to fall and fail while all the while we'll be building our foundations for the future. A day will come when we're financially stronger than many, many clubs - due to Fitton's clever use of money - and we'll be picking up the pieces from all those clubs living in the here and now with quick-fix-credit-card-mentality.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Summerof69 on Sunday, November 1, 2009, 15:41:48
In the Football Paper today, they're saying that Southend's tax debt is just £2.1m !!


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Power to people on Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 08:27:49
In the Football Paper today, they're saying that Southend's tax debt is just £2.1m !!

That's nothing compared to some clubs but HMRC have been getting tough for the last year or so though anyway, not sure when sarfend are due back in court


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: dell boy on Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 08:41:35
Hull are in terrible trouble if they go down this season - £40m in debt, there wages are a lot higher than other also-ran Premier clubs as well.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: suttonred on Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 09:31:18
That's nothing compared to some clubs but HMRC have been getting tough for the last year or so though anyway, not sure when sarfend are due back in court

Tomorrow morning.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 19:55:48
That's nothing compared to some clubs but HMRC have been getting tough for the last year or so though anyway, not sure when sarfend are due back in court

That's a hell of a lot. I think we owed HMRC £1.1 million when Fitton took over and that more than enough.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Summerof69 on Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 20:29:32
I think we owed HMRC £1.1 million when Fitton took over and that more than enough.

We owed HMRC over £3m when Fitton took over, as the accounts for May 2007 stated that, and you can bet that Diamond Mike and co. didn't pay any anything over the following 6 months as well, so I'd be very surprised that the total owed was in the region of £3.5m by the time Fitton came in.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: jonny72 on Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 21:08:12
In the Football Paper today, they're saying that Southend's tax debt is just £2.1m !!

If a company owes HMRC a grand they will go after them, and will eventually file for bankruptcy if they don't get paid in full. They don't give a fuck whether they get any of the money back, or if they get a lot less back by going down the bankruptcy route - its the principle that matters to them most. They are one creditor a company can't fuck about with.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 21:25:55
I never really understand why basket case disaster area loss makers such as we were end up owing tax - I thought it was profits that were taxed?


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: jonny72 on Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 21:41:48
HMRC nowadays is responsible for collecting; taxes, national insurance and VAT - so a club could owe any of them.

But the main issue is with the income tax and NI payments for their employee's. The club is responsible for paying their own share and deducting the employee's share and paying it to HMRC, which adds up to a fair bit every year - at least 25% of the total wage bill.

Though I'd imagine the VAT bill could be sizeable for most clubs, as in effect they have to pay VAT on all profits they make on sales - most clubs should be making a profit on items liable for VAT.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 22:03:24
neatly explained - I can now see another of the attractions of the late Mr Hilliers' illegal payments.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 00:19:43
Not strictly true, VAT is a flat rate of gross turnover. Effectively you should deduct it in readiness for paying over to HMRC, but when it gets spent on other things with no regard for this you're a bit buggered, as a certain Samdy Gray found out.

All these late payments incur interest and penalties, it's incredible how they mount up.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Power to people on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 08:34:52
There is a consortium interested in taking over Southend, I wonder if they will be given more time to sort things out ?

I thought originally HMRC was due to petition for a winding up order but then cancelled it and applied to put them into admin


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 08:45:45
Are they in admin yet? Yawn.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 09:12:25
There is a consortium interested in taking over Southend, I wonder if they will be given more time to sort things out ?
Rejected already, do keep up :)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southend_utd/8340347.stm

Quote
I thought originally HMRC was due to petition for a winding up order but then cancelled it and applied to put them into admin
They were but when they realised the scale of the indebtedness, they apparently reckoned they'd get very little back from a liquidation and would have more chance of recovering a greater portion of the money owed via admin so went for that instead. In other words, this isn't a case of HMRC backing off from liquidation per se, just financial tactics.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: jonny72 on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 12:22:44
Not strictly true, VAT is a flat rate of gross turnover.

Is that enforced on football clubs or is it opt in as it is for other businesses?


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 12:37:46
Is that enforced on football clubs or is it opt in as it is for other businesses?

I wasn't referring to the flat rate scheme, my choice of words was a bit poor.

The point I was trying to make is that STFC once had a huge VAT bill because they didn't have a clue as to the VAT position due to poor accounting. It could probably happen at other clubs too.

But seeing as you charge VAT as part of the ticket price you should already have the money to pay over. Any VAT you claim back on purchases to reduce the VAT paid over is a bonus.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Barry Scott on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 12:56:33
So they owe £2.1m? Shitty lost that last year and £6.5 this year... Come on Shitty, keep chasing the dream. Please. :D


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: jonny72 on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 13:09:11
I wasn't referring to the flat rate scheme, my choice of words was a bit poor.

The point I was trying to make is that STFC once had a huge VAT bill because they didn't have a clue as to the VAT position due to poor accounting. It could probably happen at other clubs too.

But seeing as you charge VAT as part of the ticket price you should already have the money to pay over. Any VAT you claim back on purchases to reduce the VAT paid over is a bonus.

Unfortunately its a bit too easy for any business to use money due for VAT (and other HMRC payments) as an aid to cash flow, which just creates another problem when the payment is due. I'm sure HMRC could tighten things up to stop the problems getting as big as they do, but its another area that the football authorities could clamp down on.

Maybe an automatic 3 point deduction if you don't make your monthly / quarterly payment on time. Add on the same penalty for failing to make salary payments on time and the deductions would soon mount up, which in turn would be a pretty massive incentive for clubs to stop spending money they don't have.

The current 10 point administration deduction just doesn't work and they need to do something to sort it.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: nevillew on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 13:47:30
Not strictly true, VAT is a flat rate of gross turnover.


**pedant** Unless you're dealing with zero rated goods or services as a proportion of the total **pedant**


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: nevillew on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 13:50:14
The point I was trying to make is that STFC once had a huge VAT bill because they didn't have a clue as to the VAT position due to poor accounting. It could probably happen at other clubs too.

I must admit I thought it was a cash flow problem caused by the fact that the cash budget did not take account of the fact that VAT would have to be paid, but I may be wrong.


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 13:50:49
Or things like bank interest which are exempt. Let's not get too technical Nev, we're all beginning to sound like a bunch of boring bopards


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 13:53:51
and people say accountants are boring :)


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: nevillew on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 14:09:42
Or things like bank interest which are exempt. Let's not get too technical Nev, we're all beginning to sound like a bunch of boring bopards

You started it...


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 15:21:42
and people say accountants are boring :)
internal auditors are worse


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: REDBUCK on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 15:52:04
Bank Interest isn't always exempt


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: dell boy on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 16:12:01
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southend_utd/8342164.stm


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: reeves4england on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 16:25:31
Is anybody going to tell Steve Claridge?


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: Peter Venkman on Sunday, May 28, 2023, 11:56:20
Ressurecting an old thread.

After many years of financial problems it looks like Southend could well be the next team taken over by a Hollywood star, following on from Wrexhams success.

https://fanbanter.co.uk/southend-fans-buzzing-after-hearing-clubs-potential-plans-with-dwayne-the-rock-johnson/


Title: Re: Southend Utd expected Admin
Post by: 4D on Sunday, May 28, 2023, 15:14:38
The quote "Imagine The Rock and Ray Winstone in the directors box. Even Millwall wouldn’t dare storm that"  ;D