Thetownend.com

Looks like its finally going ahead. Could be some interesting stuff revealed.

From : http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/list_commercial.htm (http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/list_commercial.htm)


No details about how the case is going, only a listing that it is taking place today.

I thought this was due up soon.

Any idea about when the verdict is expected, how it is published, etc?

Shame the local press obviously didn't know this was happening - you would think they would be on the ball

You would?

be very interesting to see what comes out of this...

Wonder if Diamond is going to be called as a witness ?

What's the worst that can happen from all of this business?

Sir Seton has to pay back Mr Power the money he stole.

No hang on, isn't that the best that can happen? I'm confused.

The best would be that the fat Greek cunt has to pay.

I don't think that Sir Seton was a thief, I think that he was just an incompetent, gullible, wet blanket excuse of a numpty.

Racist.

To be fair it's a simple mistake.

I'm sure he meant to say "The best would be that the fat Racist Greek cunt has to pay"

"Melud, the defendants were irresponsible and didn't pay their bills; they were saved them from extinction with a loan as fully verified and documented by exhibits A through F".  "The case for the plaintiff rests".

"Melud, clearly this was a gift with no strings attached as exhibits G and H have demonstrated, the word "gift" is clearly written on the back of the cigarette packet on the beer mat as signed by witnesses Freddie (Fingers) O'Reilly and by Ronnie (The Forger) Williams.  This case should be dismissed at once, due to this overwhelming evidence not countered by the plaintiff's council.  The defence rests, with a motion for dismissal". 

Baliff "Will the defendents rise".

Judge (wakes himself up with a snore): "You have been found guilty of a heinous crime, you will be taken from this court and hanged by the neck until, .......I mean to say remanded in custody, err your guilty.. lock em  up, er I mean................find for the plaintiff with costs.  The bag full of used twenty pound notes found in my chambers has herewith been confiscated pending an appeal".

The gavel strikes (Judge whispers to Bailiff, "It's bondage night at Madame Cynthia's in Penge, no cases in the morning").

Thought that was an actual report until i saw the last sentence, there is no madame cynthias in penge!

Are you sure?

Everyone knows it was Streatham....although it can be difficult to figure where Streatham, Penge and Sydenham begin and finish.

I have a similar problem with Upper Stratton, Lower Stratton, Stratton St Margaret and don't get me started on Stratton Cross Roads.

Isn't there also a Stratton St Philip?

I've always thought that Penge sounds like an unfortunate venereal complaint.  I wouldn't want to live there.

You wouldn't ,i cant think of one redeeming feature about it, bar that its better than tulse Hill, although that isn't a high accolade.

If the judge puts on an orange wig......They're fucked!

Well there's a St Phillip's Road....never heard of it, which doesn't mean it's not so, I'll do a bit of research.

No, although there is a ward called St Phillips that covers part of Stratton!  It's the Headlands, Wheeler Avenue, Meadocroft sort of area!  Believe the church on Beechcroft Road is called St. Phillips!

 You'd be correct in all that Ronnie.....here's something to chew on though..my 1956 OS map, has a Stratton Green marked. Shown as a triangle of land between Ermine Street, the railway and Swindon Road.  Am I imagining the chapel in Swindon Road being called Stratton Green baptist chapel or similar?

 Also of interest is Stratton Park....think it must have been the name given to the sizeable house which still stands near the White Hart.  The nearby Halt on the railway was known as Stratton Park Halt.

The ward is named after the parish of St.Philips. The church's biggest claim to national fame is this, which happened back in 2000:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1045021.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1045021.stm)

Used to live near St Phillip's Road.  Besides the nearby classic Watney's pub (can't believe typed that), I recall major gossip that a resident of St Phillip's Road left his missus to live with his boyfriend.  We thought that was highly assuming as we were only kids, and it was in the Sixties. 

Would that have been The Wheatsheaf, Dores Road.

You'd have thought seeing as how Stratton already had a Wheatsheaf they'd have come up with something more original.

Bloody 'ell couldn't remember the name of it.  It was about as rustic as the Brunel Center. I don't recall actually drinking there, might have bought some bottles of cider and crisps from the Offy.  Seem to remember being twelve wasn't an obstacle to getting served in the Offy.

Just remembered there was a coach firm quite close, rivals to Rimes.  They had a fleet of underpowered compared with Rimes out of date luxury vehicles.

Offy's in pubs used to be quite common didn't they.  I suppose the idea was you sent your kid along for some beer, and they didn't actually have to go in the pub.

I am sure you are correct about the Baptist church Reg.  That house has been converted into offices now, but you can see it was fairly imposing.  Guess at one time it stood in its own grounds known as Stratton Park.

 I'll see if I can find out a bit more about it when I've got some time.

 There's a short stretch of Ermine Street just out of the White Hart, that has been by-passed various roads and still manages to retain something of its character.

Again more nostalgia, often traffic being backed up by the White Hart due to cows being herded.

The he-she vicar christened my cousin's little girl. I believe it was his/her's first service back after the op. Very surreal.

  I always got sent round the local pub offy, just a window into the public bar, they more or less died out mid 80's once the threshers type shops started opening, that ruined the 2p back on a glass bottle of coke industry amongst under 16's.

I remember collecting those glass bottles then taking them back. Used to way a ton! The crate was as big as me!!

1 crate equaled about 4 packs of Golden Wonder cheese and onion, walkers pah, crap!

They were referred to as the 'Jug and Bottle' in South Wilts when i was a kid.

You got 10p for those corona bottles.

There's a reference to Stratton St Philip on page 43 this 2005 document from Swindon BC, but that's about the only one I can find.

http://ww2.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.asp?ID=6207&J=1

While all this old talk is mighty interesting, does anyone know what happened in the court case?

Ongoing, I believe.

they will report when it's over - no disclosure from either party until then

Any idea of when the verdict is expected? Presumably the judge will need time to review it all before passing a verdict?

This is not a private sitting though is it, so surely journo's can attend court and report back on what they hear, so this is bollocks surely ?

nope - but the parties won't talk to them - maybe I didn't phrase that quite right before (I'm not sure about the privacy or whatever)

You'd expect parties to not talk to the press while the case is ongoing through fear of preducing the outcome anyway.

My point was that it does not hurt the local hacks to send a reporter to the court for a week and report back on the story everyday, there must be interesting information coming out in court, interesting to see if Wills, Diamandis or Power has to take the stand.

Are the local press stickin their head in the sand scared of upsetting the current regime ?

I suppose the local journo's don't want to rock the boat with Fitton & Co so they ignore it.

Adver did report it was ongoing in the Tuesday edition, obviously read it on the TEF!!  They did state it was expected to finish on Friday.

It's back in court tomorrow at 10:30 and the case is part heard according to the website.

Fuck the court case we'll find out soon enough...in the meantime while we're waiting, who remembers those plastic pots, a bit like fake old style beer jugs, that you could take home some ale in when the pub closed at 10:30 ?  Most breweries seemed to have them, I'd hazard someone has a collection somewhere.

It was showing as part heard at the start of the week as there have already been hearings in the case, this week's is just the latest, although hopefully it will be the final hearing unless there's another adjournment. And no, I don't have any special inside track on this I'm afraid, before anyone asks

So the evidence suggests the trial wasn't finished at the start of the week and still isn't finished.

I've got a Brakspears Henley Brewery one hanging up in my garage  ;D

I used to have a shedload of them when they were popular (Fullers, Gales, Wethereds, Whitbread, Arkells, Youngs, Morland and so on), the problem was that they went brittle and cracked easily.

  There's a couple of pubs in Thatcham that still do those. golden rule is always buy double what you will drink as half of them get dropped on the way home.

Really? Do you know what they have printed on them (brewery)?

No idea, i've always been worse for wear when purchasing, I'll try and remember to have a look next time i'm down. Dont even remember which pubs due to being tired and emotional! although i think one may be the  old chequers.

not appearing on the commercial court list anymore so I guess it's over - did I miss the article in the adver explaining the outcome?

No, you didn't miss it...they haven't said anything about the court case other than it was due to start...good journalism that

no fucking info then - right I'm going to ask Datasat

the old chequers? head down on a saturday and you can take in some karoke...almost ended up there last night in my quest for a random pub crawl!

I believe the evidence has all now been heard and the judge has retired to consider it and ponder a verdict. Verdict expected back end of April, I understand, so no outcome to report on as yet

Retired ?

Fucking 'ell he's got to give a verdict on the case hasn't he ?  :D

is that what the Adver said Paul?

Fitton mentioned the court case in today's program. He said something about wishing that the cunts responsible had sat round a table and sorted the fucking mess out rather than take it to court.

He also said that legal costs could run to about a million quid - which is fucking scary if the club lose the case as any profit we make on Cox and Morrison in the summer could just end up paying for lawyers.

I thought there was some sort of indemnity on the Wills family in place in the event of the court case going tits up on the club. Anyone know?

Although he phrased it rather more elegantly than that.

I'll answer the second part first as that's the most important bit - yes, the club have an indemnity against losing the case, it was cited in the last set of accounts as why the club feel that even if they lose the case, it doesn't come as a cost against the club. Of course, they've got to actually get the Wills family to pay the indemnity.

The million quid legal costs is his estimate for both sides, so whether that all comes back on the club depends on how/whether the judge makes an award for costs (ie both sides meet their own costs or the loser pays the winner's costs in whole or in part). Again though, that should be covered by the indemnity - it would make no sense to ensure you have an indemnity for the potential fixed cost for damages (ie the £1m in dispute) without ensuring it also covers the variable costs of the legal fees as they could potentially end up higher than any award for damages. It would be like getting car insurance where you get cover for damaging someone's car (potentially a few grand), but not for any possible legal costs if the other driver sues you for whiplash or such (which could be 10s of thousands). People do do it, but it's pretty foolish. In this case it would be even more foolish as unlike car insurance, you know there's going to be legals, that's precisely why you've taken an indemnity.

So while we shouldn't underestimate what a huge pain in the ass this case has been (and indemnity or not the club have had to pay out up front for their own costs which can't have helped the cash flow), the bottom line is that this mess is the fault of the old regime and thanks to the new board negotiating the indemnity as part of the takeover, it's them who'll have to pay for it. Which is as it should be.

I notice Diamandis failed to appear at the court case and has gone back to Cyprus obviously things were getting abit iffy for him after both Holt and Gray cited him as the person who told them to do everything. Hopefully he never gets let back into the country again.

Surely not, he was not a director where as Holt and Gray were. :) Anyway I would imagine you won't be getting a postcard any time soon.

Of course had he been acting as a "shadow director" in this way in the period up to November 2004, he (and possibly they if they did so knowingly) would have been committing a criminal offence in breach of his court-imposed ban from acting as a director. So I'm just as sure as you are Batch that that couldn't possibly have happened

And given how sure he was he had done no wrong, and how keen to tell us all so in many and various statements, I find it difficult to believe he would have fled to Cyprus rather than have his day in court to establish definitively he had indeed acted in the best interests of the club as we'd all been told so often. Surely shome mistake

He is in the Town End most games dontcha know

Fitton says why couldnt they sort it outside the courts?

One word Diamandis. The bloke is, was and will always be totally unreasonable, and to be frank, if he had been taken to court a few more times then he wouldnt have been able to get away with what he did do at Swindon? Because the law didnt do anything to stop Diamandis running the club whilst banned.

So yes, its expensive. But dont forget they smeared Bill Power as well. They told Sturrock that he was a crook, trying to steal Will's money. So good on someone standing up to the bastard.

Where is this written?

Advertiser today reporting it could cost the club £2M and that the previous board have failed to come up with any cash.. Seems a lot more serious than I thought it would be.

From the adver:


Why am I not suprised in the slightest

oh bollocks..... What about the indemnity??? I can only guess that SSW/MD and crew figure, well we wont stick to the indemnity, it would cost the club more money in legal fees etc to chase us for the money through the courts so if STFC lose the case its cheaper for them to bite the bullet?? I am not sure but I really wish we could draw a line under everything... what a great way to start a friday

Is that indemnity thing a legal issue? If so, surely Fitton won't have to pay anything. Also isn't the issue with the holding company, and therefore nothing to do with Fitton either? I'm confused...

The issue was with the holding company, but as that was conveniently placed into administration and is effectively wound-up the actual football club had to defend the case.

It also wouldn't surprise me if the indemnity isn't worth the fag packet that Mick the Greek wrote it on.

Why would the current board be 'facing the prospect of footing the potential seven-figure sum'?  I don't understand.  What was the indemnity for if not this?

Off the field, we have moved on now - so I am confident that this is not an issue that would prove fatal for the club (as it would have done pre-Fitton/Arbib etc.)  As others have said, at the worst we sell Cox to pay Power.

I am just irritated that the rotting corpse of the Wills/Diamandis ownership of our club is still festering away in the background.  And it smells fucking awful.

More From Fitton...

ANDREW Fitton has warned that asking his board of directors to “put their hands in their pockets to fight someone else’s battle’’ could prove a step too far for Swindon Town’s current backers.

And the chairman insists the fact that the club have ended up fighting a legal case on behalf of the previous owners and against what was agreed as part of last year’s takeover, has put the County Ground outfit “financially at risk.”

Fitton was reluctant to go into too much detail when contacted by the Advertiser – particularly when judgement on the case, which was heard in the High Court last month, is awaited.

However, he admitted he believes Swindon are paying a heavy price for a dispute which he never wanted to end up in the law courts, with the total bill potentially pushing the £2million barrier if Bill Power emerges the victor from the judgement that is due at any time.

London-based businessman Fitton revealed he and his team have already paid out legal fees totalling more than £400,000, and there is reluctance to continue funding someone else’s battle.

“When we acquired the club, the Wills family agreed to indemnify us against any claims that we might have from the litigation – that is a matter of record,” said Town’s chairman.

“From the moment we became involved it was agreed that the previous owners would run the litigation.

“But their holding company went into administration so we have taken the bullet and had to run the case.

“It has cost close to half-a-million-pounds in legal costs for something that we are nothing to do with and it’s very frustrating – apart from anything else it is distracting management from the real task of sorting out this club and restoring it to good health.

“From our point of view this situation is putting the club at risk. Why should people like Sir Martyn Arbib and Andrew Black put their hands in their pockets to fight someone else’s battle?”

The long-running dispute was heard in the High Court last month, and Town’s hierarchy are also believed to fear Power may be at least partially successful in his bid to recoup the £1.12million he put in to the club in 2006.

But Fitton insists it should have never reached this point, and that the Wills’ reluctance to settle out of court has plunged the club back into danger.

“These things should never go to court. Court is not the answer,” he said.

“If they had settled when we told them to settle it would have cost a whole lot less.

“This thing is hanging over the club’s head and we cannot get it to go away because it is not our fault – but ultimately the club is going to pay the price.”

Fitton declined to divulge all the details at this stage, but has pledged to provide an in-depth interview at some stage in the future once the judgement is known.

“Let’s see what happens. We have to hope for the best and plan for the worst,” he added.

FFS, thank Wills.

I think Diamandis and co need a visit.

Does anyone else get the impression that Fitton and co may walk if Bill Power wins the case??

No.

I get the impression that some former club controlling parties are going to be in for one hell of a public verbal smack down once the judgement has come in.

Yes, I don't think Fitton's all that chuffed.

I'm hoping he is trying to put pressure on the Wills to do what they said they would if the club loses the case.

Either way he now knows the true extent of the Diamandis/Wills stitch up.

where did you get that longer fitton bit from gaz? I can't see it on the adver page or the official site.

Reason for me saying about “does anyone else get the impression that fitton and co will walk if BP wins the court case is..”

-   The club will suffer (does the club have £2M in its coffers to pay up?????? Do we go into administration again??, or perhaps just means we wont be able to sign players, we will have to sign Cox (thus affecting the playing side) to keep the club afloat
-   Andrew Black has already said he is looking at his investments it was mentioned on another thread,

A Typical Gazza over-reaction I am sure but there we go.

On Swindon Advertiser main site...

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/4297518.Town_s_in_trouble/

Comment on that article



That's possibly the most ill informed thing I've ever read in my life.

Not good.  Dr Rock should stay off the sauce at least until midday.

ahh cool cheers gaz.

Just my OCD going. I like to attribute things to places. I figured it must be the adver but couldn't find it on the sports bit. I forgot they sometimes have football things on the main news. It's nice to link to the source when you're posting an article anyway though.

I went on the official site to see if there was anything on there yet, not a thing, but we instead get this gem:

http://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10341~1616431,00.html (http://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10341~1616431,00.html)

Good to see Casal has his future mapped out.

He's obviously had too much sangria !!!

There is so many inaccuracies with his comments it's unbelievable.

Good old Adver, i think i will wait for the outcome rather than go on the adver sources understand comment.

Andy fucking cryer again

FOR ONCE


SHUT UP GAZ

I think he is moaning about the legal expenses he may have to pay - the indemnity is probably just for the million to Bill Power.
Possible outcomes
BP loses he pays all expenses
BP loses he pays his expenses STFC pay theirs
STFC loses they pay BP his million (payed by Wills) STFC pay all the expenses
STFC loses they pay BP his million (payed by Wills) STFC pay just their expenses
So there are 3 out of 4 scenarios where AF is out of pocket - he must have known this

The only difference for me now is that I won't buy the 3 year season ticket, no big deal. It's a shame this wasn't sorted earlier (or I could bothered to hang on for a few weeks.

Doesn't matter what I say or do. People ALWAYS have to take the piss out of me for, I have an opinion that people dont agree with and its wrong. I get a tattoo done, and people take the piss even though they don't see it, i say "oh had a laugh with Lee Peacock on shirt sponsors day" and I get a "OHHHH GAZZA AND LEE ARE GAY BOYS" response,  Bollocks to it. Had enough of it.

I try my hardest to give my opinon backing up why I think things and instead of getting a reasoned response I always seem to get a "shut the fuck up", no matter what I say, Doesnt matter someone has to always say NO YOUR A CUNT, YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE, YOUR WRONG, YOUR A FAT CUNT. Fuck it, I know people will say “oh your full of shit” because I don’t talk to people at the club and others do on this forum, they are obviously in the know, where as I guess or give a reason why I think something and its "oh no your wrong" .

What makes other peoples opinions anymore valid than mine? Is it because you have been going to games longer than me? Because I am not part of a clique? Slag me off, say I throw my toys out I have gone past caring now, I dont care I won't respond to it because whatever I will say someone will take the piss ofcourse. Had enough of it. This is supposed to be a message board full of opinions but no matter what I post, I always get knocked down over it,  Fuck it.

People are always quick to come to me if they want something, and I don't expect Thank You's or anything beceause I am not like that, I dont do things for self gain but I am sick of being the butt of everyones jokes and being taken advantage of.

are you all happy now boys - you've destroyed him - shame on you!

Its just a typical kneejerk reaction from you though Gaz isnt it ?

If you are going to post silly comments like that then you need to be prepared to be shot down and to take some flak.

I notice that you have not made the same personal assumptions on your own forum, so why here ?

As I have never asked you for anything then I cant seem to think why that statement is relevant

Uh-oh. He's gone Chernobyl.

*spits coffee over keyboard*

The post wasn't referring to you necessarily its people in general.

To be fair to gazza this line

did make me think it may mean fitton and co could leave

Mr Fitton is the head honcho of a charity, that does a bit for Chernobyl affected kids, perhaps Gazza could get on the list. They get free tickets and stuff.

He's offically blown a gazket...

Me too. But as it was pointed out to me elsewhere, this is the Adver comment and not a direct quote. It's easy to rephrase something to give a different impression than was intended. We'll have to see.

Does anyone actually KNOW what indemnity the Wills provided. I don't recall hearing a proper definition. It does seem as though Fitton thought the Wills would pay for everything, costs and settlement.

Hey ho, the judgement hasn't even been given yet.

Yeah Fred you cunt.

Although with the current state of adver journalism it's generally best to ignore the fluffy bits and stick to the full quotes, not just 4 words with replaced context.


It reads more to me like a warning that any cost will be at the expense of the football budget and not something they'll just blindly stump up for.

Anyway, as we know from all the old stuff. Football boards just can't walk. The current lot have a responsibility for a continuing business whether they like it or not.

 :D

Exactly

It will be down to the football club to finance the debt, albeit through the sale of a player(s)

NOT the personal wealth of our backers

I can't see Fitton and co walking away, but even if they did the club is in a far better state than it was before.

I'm confused as to why the club (which is now owned by a new company) is responsible for this and why the company that was responsible (which owned the club at the time) was allowed to exit administration (and probably be wound up) when this was ongoing.

It would be good if the Adver could actually do some journalism and print an accurate account of events, no chances of that ever happening though.

You've gotta love this forum......its officially better than EastEnders for drama.....carry on chaps.....

Gazket!! hahahahahahaha Brilliant.

I dont think it`s as dramatic as Fitton and Co walking out, but the content is troubling nonetheless.

The possibility of the case going against the club has been there since day one, so its not anything new. It seems to me that Fitton is becoming frustrated with a number of things (on pitch and off) and this is some of that frustration coming out.

2 points though.

- If the club loses the case they will owe Bill Power and Phil Emmell £1 million, but it doesnt necessarily mean that money will be demanded immediately. Bill and Phil may be prepared to take payment over a period of years. Im not talking from any inside knowledge here, just pointing out that the money wont neccessarily be required at once.

- An indemnity is not the same as a cheque for £1 million. If the people who gave you the indemnity dont pay up voluntarily you have to chase them through the courts, running up further legal costs in the process. A secnario, I suspect is beginning to dawn on Mr Fitton.

Exactly. Its point 2, that in all seriousness, concerns me the most as it equates to more unplanned and unecessary expense to the detriment of the club as a whole.

I put it all down to one person. The one who didn't even have the courage of his convictions to turn up in court.
Of course Wills is culpable as well, having appoitted the person responsible to run the club.
Wonder how James is recieved in the boardroom these days. (if he is ever there & not at Arsenal)

 Unusually there is one entry on the adver comments listing worth reading, it's from a Mr F Ben
 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Seaton Willis, his daughter & grandchildren were in the exec lounge vs Orient so he can't be persona non grata with the current board?  Perhaps next time he turns up we can shake a collecting tin for the legal fees in the court case !

I think we know where Simon Cox's money is going.

Im sure the adver do this to whip the fans into a frenzy on the comments section,which seems to be working judging by some idiotic comment's being made.

Im so worried about this i've just renewed my ST. 

talking of season tickets we've sold just over 800 so far.

I'm sure I've read it somewhere today but I'm being a bit blind. When's the judgement?

I don't know of a fixed date for it. "After Easter" was all I heard.

ahh. I thought I had read one. Was probably the "after easter" thing.

Or I may have missed it.

Was James (nasty & Dim) there tho'.

As I said the other day though, it would be madness to negotiate an indemnity for the fixed costs alone. If Fitton and co did any kind of due diligence (and they did, thoroughly, from what I can gather), they'd have known there was a good chance of losing the case (which is why they wanted an indemnity in the first place) and would also have known that if the case went to court, then costs would form a large part of the eventual bill. So I just don't find it credible that they'd have negotiated an indemnity that ONLY covered the fixed costs, that would just be incredibly naive to the point of incompetence. And I don't think Fitton's that naive.

The problem here it would seem is not that the indemnity doesn't cover the costs but that the Wills are proving a little slow in paying out. So sue them. And ban them from the directors' box for a start until they pay what they owe.

I'm sure it is only a matter of time that James will no longer be a director at STFC, How much money has Wills got left after Diamandis bled him dry - no sympathy though, perhaps he can sell his big posh house in Ramsbury and live in a 3 bed terraced in Penhill, he'd still have a room for James as well.

Can I suggest Gazza stops supplying the ammunition as it just get's too easy to wind him up and watch him go like a rampant rabbit  :D

Got the poking stick out again Fred ?

Nah Nev

Just fed up with his over the top, irrational, inane comments all the time.

Like I said, he doesnt table his opinions like this on his own forum so why here ?

That's because nobody visits our forum Andy  :D

Couldn't be attention seeking could it ?

You're only voicing what I'm thinking.

 :D

I do

In fact I think Gazza has done a great job with the L & P site, whether its viewed as the "in thing" to be controversial on here I really dont know.

I am not the only one to voice a similar opinion

Big bully Fred.  :bike:

Absolutely what I was thinking.

A different point, but is the indemnity provided by the Wills family or just Sir Seton?

I've always understood it to be the Wills family but how it's actually legally drawn up may be quite different

Agree with that.

I thought all along that Bill P would / should win, & AF & co must have realised that. Problem is they will probably have to sue Wills for the indemnity to be paid.

I would settle for a public flogging (in the centre circle before the Wovers match) of his personal advisor my self

fucking brilliant...

...not helped by all the fickle cunts who didnt 'renew' their season ticket in December!!!

I'm no legal expert so I really dont have a clue what is going on but I thought Bill Power liked Swindon? ok, he was never a fan of Swindon, is a business man but invested some money and was willing to be part of the fans consortium.

Surely he wouldnt want to take us to the cleaners and destroy us?

There's a lot of things/people I like, have an attachment to, whatever, but I'd still be pretty pissed off if any of them tried to scam me out of a mil or so and I'd probably do what I could to get it back. Even if it meant financially fucking them up.

Thats a very thisis post. Like ben said, he's been scammed out of a million and is, quite rightly, going for it back.He's done nowt wrong in my eyes, its clever bastadry by those who were previosly in charge which means its got anything to do with us now

Not quite that simple. The case is that Bill and Phil were effectively scammed out of a million quid by the previous regime. They could safely take on the case knowing it wouldn't ultimately impact the club because of the safety net provided by the indemnity - ie that means that if they win, the people who have to pay are the people who (allegedly) stitched them up. And if they drop the case, the same people effectively end up a million quid better off. And Fitton and the new board could safely take over the club and write this down as not being a liability ultimately owed by the club because of the indemnity. Indeed they said as much in the last set of accounts. So in terms of actual outcomes this is a straight battle between Bill and Phil and the Wills family, which is what it always was. The only way it becomes a problem for the club is if the Wills family try and wriggle out of their responsibilities by not honouring the indemnity.

Well I'm definitely a fan of STFC, but am behind Bill P 100% on this one. He has been left no choice by Mr Diamandis & Co.

The thing is that if it was the case that he was conned out of the money which was then used for purposes other than those intended for example if it were used to pay stud fees on a horse, I think I would be suing too. Paticularly if it were the case that some smarmy bastard would not have a reasonable discussion about it, & started publically slagging me off.
If the aforementioned SM was then selling the assett, (club) in which I had allegedly bought a share in without reference to me, I would be annoyed tp say the least.

and of course it's only the reporters take on what AF said (but I'm still only getting a year instead of three)

is the indemnity on Wills personally, or on the old holding company ?

I've always understood it to be on the Wills family. It would have been plain stupid to have had it against the Holding Co in case they tried to fold it to avoid paying any outstanding debt (erm, like they did in fact)

Oh great the uncertainty that never really left in full returns with a bang :(

What a great season this has been.

I've missed it.

You've made a good friend there Ben in a certain JMOSTFC from Bassett.   :thumb:

Yeah I saw that.

Shame. I thought me and JMOSTFC could be mates.

The owners should have realised that this could happen when they bought the club. Not sure it's fair on the fans to cut the budget for this probable legal cost. If the fans hadn't been promised better things on the pitch I probably wouldn't have or voice this opinion.

Also if the owners having to stump up the cash leads to a smaller playing budget, then this would suggest that they are still heavily funding the running of the club or are willing to take significant drawings from it, the latter case would prove to be totally against the principles of running a financially tight ship which was self sustaining.

Obviously this opinion could be completely bollocks if us or the Adver are reading between the lines too much.

This is very depressing.

Bill Power came here as the knight in shining armour, how do you feel now?

Those who said thank you for all you done Wills family, how do you feel now?

There is only one loser at the end of the day, Swindon Town FC, eg the fans of this club.

My sentiments entirely, how much longer can we have a Wills on the board of our great club?

Where there's a Wills, there's a way.

I'm amazed this pun hadn't graced the thread yet, so I thought I'd better get it in.

Like many others here have said, I don't blame Power one bit. He didn't want to put us into this situation, and he took no specific action to do so. It's the old board who are to blame for this occurring, and more so for the fact that it has ended up in a costly court case

The Trust members were close to Bill Power and adored him, others like myself have differnet opinions, but I'm not going to go there again (because I certainly dont want to go back to the days when I was slated for a different view to Trusties in the past) - at the end of the day we owed him money even though he wasnt quite sure how we owed him, Bill made it clear he would settle out of court, which the Wills/Diamond wouldn't do.

So those bastards, no I will use a word I never use just for FB, those CUNTS have hit this club again.

Anyone know where I can get hold of one of those road-marking devices?

You just went there again though  ???

Oh no I didnt.

I agree.

I supported Bill Power back then - and I still do.  All he is doing is going after what is rightfully his.  Unfortunately, Wills and Diamandis are both worms and it looks as if the club itself may suffer...but that does not cloud the issue for me in the slightest.

It's unfortunate that the club is being dragged back in to this, but Bill Power has a right to his cash.  The idea that he should forfeit his money in an act of benevolence to show his love for STFC is naive.  I am quite sure that every one of us on this board would do the same had we also had been dicked around by the worm brothers.

I sincerely hope that Seton Wills has the decency never to show his face at the County Ground again.

I sincerely hope he has the decency to honour the commitment he made in indemnifying the current owners against this eventuality. Then it all becomes a non-issue

Indemnity is such a boring word. They should call it a Mutated Lobster Oath.

Wills should honour his Mutated Lobster Oath.

:contract: :hehe:

How old is SSW now?

one hundred and twelfty four.

Interesting to now see Andrew Fitton following up his program notes of earlier in the week with a pop at the Wills family and their failure to agree to meet the indemnity clause. He's quite right to up the ante on them though if they are still enjoying the cosy benefits of match day VIP treatment while acting like a bunch of spineless, welching cunts in the background.

The chinless arseholes should have been shown the fucking exit door when they handed over the keys to the ground, let alone still be being welcomed in with all the other cronies and liggers who stood by as they and their 'advisor' fucked the club up the arse.

Welcome back Sargeant Wilson.

Thats the point tho' Dell, Bill P was sure how the club owed him the money. But Diamandis said otherwise & was not prepared to talk about it, or do anything other than shaft the club (taking it to within 24 hrs of going out of business).

Now if we could have a public flogging of said b'stard in the centre circle at every home game season ticket sales would rocket.

If you're the same 'dellboy' as used to post anti-Power vitriol at every opportunity, you are a grade A cunt.

History is starting to shed light on what a greedy bunch of thieving cunts the old board were and, from what's being hinted at, there are some unsavoury details yet to emerge. No disrespect to Fitton - I'm glad he won the day and saved the club - but Power would have been a much better option than Diamandis and Wills at that time.

Cunts like Dellboy and Maverick are the ones who should be flogged on the pitch alongside Chinless, the Chinless son-of-Chinless, and the big fat greedy bubble;D

If you're not the same dellboy mate, apologies:-[ 

hahahah of course hes the same one,but Dells a good guy he just had a different view to you(and me at the time}Time to move on mate.I cant help but wonder if the doubters werent a little bit right,yes the money is owed to Bill but is he willing to bring the football club down to get it back?

I think Power has no choice but to go after the club because the Directors were acting on the Holding Co's behalf (as they are in charge).

We also still don't know the outcome. We all expect it to be in Power's favour because the old regime were such cowboys but who knows. But my personal opinion was Power was right all along.

If I'd loaned the club several hundred pounds and they said it was for a season ticket I'd be pretty miffed and want my money back and I love the football club! Dell's posted things to get a reaction though I suspect.

It would certainly be more entertaining than the Rockin' Robin Hakka

Nah I dont think Dell posted for reaction,some people just didnt believe in Power.

Then why has he said how do you feel now? It seems like 'an I told you so post'. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems like that.

I don't think it's fair to attack people for having a different view though, Deltaincline is a bit out of order with that post. Luckily I can look back at the posts about orange bedsheets making us lose and laugh at how stupid they were but at the time it was pathetic. To be fair to Dell Boy he has blamed the old regime on the most part.

No problem with a difference of opinion. Dellboy and co just stirred the shit for no reason other than trying to win a dick waving contest at the clubs expense. 

The same could be said of you,everyone just did and said what they thought was right.Its all ancient history now anyway so giving dell grief about it is pointless.(I dont think Dells post was "I told you so" and if it is hes being an idiot)

I do believe we were all so desperate for anyone but the Diamandis board we would probably have rejoiced if Satan himself showed interest in buying the club.I look back and wonder if maybe we should have asked a few more questions of Power? that said, I think most of us put our trust in the Trust.Id have jumped off a cliff if  Paul D said it was a good plan,he was great like a kind of STFC David Koresh  :D

I read it him giving it the big one as well, hence the compliment.

Agree with the comment about PD's Trust army. Despite all the shite, history will no doubt show that they got it right.

Hears a thaught..why not telling the lawyers to fuk off,its going to cost thousands on both sides and Fitton inviting Power onto the board with them....i feel he would be open to debate,now i might be totally wrong but Power seemed a decent guy...and he dosnt really need the dosh,with his lucky escape in that plane crash he should be enjoying life....it wont happen though,as i said it was just a thaught.

Slightly off topic  I've often wonder, deltaincline, whether secretly you're the author of the Devil's Kitchen blog.

http://devilskitchen.me.uk/2009/04/ukip-homophobic-shit-for-brains.html

Your use of cunt and fuck and general gratuitous swearing has about the same hit rate. ;)

Too late for that leefer. Anyway, We'd still owe the lawyers money, i'd imagine power would want his money back so he can invest elsewhere. Doubt he'd want a back seat. Just an opinion of course.         This isn't about whose side
Was right, this is about wills seemingly not paying what he said he would when fitton took over.

why is fitton bleating now?
surely he did his homework on power before taking over?
as owner and chairman of stfc, this was always on the cards.
has that cunt james wills been thrown off the board yet? i stated my disgust at his remaining here months ago.

Your right Batch...but it wouldve been nice eh....our best bet is to pay up prompt when we get Coxys fee and keep the damage as low as pos....silly dragging it out.

In fairness arriba, surely that's why he insisted on the indemnity before taking the reins. He did his homework and ensured a safeguard was in place that would protect the club. The problem, if there is one, is in the sentence "The Advertiser understands that the Wills family have so far failed to come up with the cash". However, on further reflection since yesterday, this is perhaps somewhat disingenuous as any indemnity against the outcome of a legal case would presumably be dependent on final judgement being reached in that case. As it has not yet been reached, although it seems highly likely Bill and Phil will win, the indemnity would not yet have been triggered. So it may well be that this is little more than that Fitton et al have started to ask about the indemnity in the expectation of losing, the Wills have not been as forthcoming as they would like and Fitton is looking to fire a warning shot across the Wills' bows.

So what could be the scenario time wise Pauld in your opinion...months or years?..surely cutting our losses would be our best option...maybe a prompt settlement in the close season.

You might have done yeovil but I can assure the Trust board were very wary indeed of the ABD (Anyone but Diamandis) factor. There was no way we were going to just go with the first possible alternative that came along - indeed we discouraged at least one approach made directly to us as we did not believe it would have been suitable for the club. But we talked extensively to Bill and Phil, knew their intentions and motives, discussed what we felt was the right way forward for the club and felt it was a good fit. And I think most people who had some experience of Bill's short time being involved at the club agreed.
I think we were extensively questioned - that's something that the likes of Dell and Maverick did very well and I think they performed a very useful function in doing so. Had there been weaknesses in what we were putting forward, it would have been quickly exposed so despite delta's antagonism I'm pleased they and their like grilled us the way they did - it strengthened not weakened our case.
I wish you'd told me that at the time. Is it too late to ask you to go jump off a cliff now? :)

Although the indemnity has probably not been triggered I believe Fitton was reported as saying that it was understood that the case would be run by Wills and co. It seems that this has not happened and the club has been left to cough up the cost of running things.  

This is how it works as I understand it - if the judgement goes for Bill and Phil, then the club needs to pay them whatever the court finds in terms of damages and costs. There may obviously be some scope for Bill and Phil to ease the terms of that - ie perhaps asking for payment spread over a number of years instead of a lump sum up front. The club in turn then recover whatever costs they incur by invoking the Wills' indemnity so that ultimately it is the people who incurred this action (and consistently refused to settle it) who pay the costs. So no we absolutely should not cut our losses. The people who's fault it is should pay. I hope the Wills have a similar indemnity clause with Diamandis to indemnify them against the hugely damaging and expensive results of his "advice", which he seems to have done rather nicely out of.

Yes, but as I've said about 142 times (maybe exaggeration) in this thread already, although that means the club have to meet the costs up front and I don't minimise the effects of that, ultimately any indemnity clause worth its salt would cover all costs incurred. I don't believe Fitton is so naive as to negotiate an indemnity clause that didn't also cover costs, that would be plain daft

You dont go into buisness on the understanding of things...Fitton knew the score from the off,hes just doing his best to get out of it,and why not,he may get lucky....now why not encourage the big money men at the club to take over the debt....then save the club plenty of money by not dragging on court proceedings..as Pauld says Fitton is probably going to see this out...lets hope it works.

Thank god the late nights and scrutinising documents purchased over the internet are now gone eh Paul?

Thank you for your kind words.
I was so totally wrong in the past and I put my hands up and hold my head in shame, these days I do not post on controversial issues, in the past I was sucked in by propaganda of the old board, blimey I neally gave them my money to boot.

As for a public flogging, you naughty boy, you can always come and try, there will only be one winner and I can assure you, it will not be you!!!

I don't know, I quite miss the late-night internet and credit card sessions ;)

I don't think you understand leefer, the indemnity is not just a gentleman's agreement (that really would have been foolish), it's legally binding. So it's not a question of trying it on in the hope he gets lucky, it's a question of calling on the Wills family to honour the legal agreements made at the time of purchase

The point I was trying to make was that the club were not expecting to manage/run the case and therefore finance the costs. From earlier in this thread alleged reporting by the Adver of Fitton's words:

“From the moment we became involved it was agreed that the previous owners would run the litigation.

“But their holding company went into administration so we have taken the bullet and had to run the case.

If the agreement and/or the indemnity was with the previous owners as individuals then it seems that agreement has already been broken. If with the holding company, are either the agreement or the indemnity enforceable frollowing administration?

This is all kinda pointless and now I have to jump off a cliff.

I think there's a confusion between too different things here. The club defending the case because the old holding company busted out isn't because of the indemnity, it's just the legal technical defaulty thing that happens in scenarios in this.

The indemnity thing covers that when this happens the Willsiacs are responsible for the costs, but they're not being forward with paying up. This is where the indemnity comes in, but may require us going through the courts to claim it of Wills if he insists on being a cunt.

That's my understanding anyway. I'm sure someone like paul will come along and say where I've got it wrong.

Actually there's a good chance all that is wrong.

Actually that's a pretty good summary. I see where you're coming from WRRA, but as I understand it the indemnity only comes into play when the case is concluded. You can't even assess costs because it's common for a judge to make a ruling on which side pays who's costs as part of the judgement (e.g. loser pays all costs, loser pays their own costs plus part of the other sides, or both sides pay their own costs) above and beyond any judgement on the claim itself. And the indemnity has always been cited as being on the Wills family in person - as I've said elsewhere it would be insane to get an indemnity underwritten by the Holding Co. I'm pretty sure it's quoted that way in the accounts too.

Two right!

Seeing as what we conjecture isn't going to make diddly squat, IMO we may just as well wait for the (imminent?) announcement and direct all our positive thinking to staying in League 1 this season. And to not being crushed by falling Yeovils and the ilk.

I came so close to a massive whoosh moment there.

I'm getting a bit confused here. Don't the old holding co (Wills bastards etc ) still own 25% of STFC hence the chinless fucker Wills junior on the board - or are they in administration and own nothnig.  Surely this will have a large part as to how this will play out. 

The Holding Company doesn't own anything in STFC, it used to hold the majority stake in the Club until Fitton's consortium bought the shares

I won't hear a bad word said against Dell!

He's my new best friend!

Back away ya bastards!

Fittons always said he wants to run the club to make a profit. And I think he realises now, after a year of hard knocks, that this probably will never happen. The Power pay out will set this plan back even more. People say Fitton is a 'hard nosed businessman' but I look at him and I dont believe it. He's a dreamer, and hes probably made money because he's idealistic and generally a great person to do business with. He's not ruthless, he sticks by his staff.

I think Power will win back his money, and then we will find out if Fitton is prepared to pursue his old toff mates over at the Will's? I doubt it. If he isnt prepared to take them to court (as he seems reluctant to do) then he wont take a penny back off them.

I can see trouble ahead.

As for Power, its just a crying shame that Diamandis wouldnt reliquish the club until it was on life support. To be honest, Fitton's football credentials are a bit dodgy, whereas Bill Power was a football man. If Power had been able to take over the club then Wise would have stayed (in my opinion). Wise going to QPR now just reaffirms the connections between the two.

Yeovil, as for satan himself taking over. I could see the devil horns in that Jose Veiga fellow. But if it had meant the club surviving then so be it. But we would probably have had to kick out 'BEST' by now as well.

I'm sure AF would also have realised that Diamandis had/ has a history of taking comapnioes into admin & liquidation so would have seen the holding company going that way as a typical Diamandis ploy. I can't believe he would not have foreseenn that & ensured the indemnity was safer than that.

If Diamandis had tried to take over hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the TEF.

If he succeeded, would the Church have to change Revelations to refer to lost souls being condemned to "eternal administration"?

I dont understand why Fitton wouldnt go after the wills for the £1m.

If power wins, Fitton has a piece of paper that says "i owe u £1m" signed by the Wills family. Its not up for debate, it would be a fact.  one way or another, assuming that the wills still own land and assets Fitton would get that £1m.

It makes no sense that he wouldnt, as he is not mates with the wills to my knowledge

Remember where this story first surfaced...in the adver.....now do they have a good history of getting things correct ?

I suspect this is a mountain out of a molehill but time will tell

we assume he has that bit of paper. Is it taken out to SSW personally?

Even if Fitton has that piece of paper that saying that SSW owes him £1m then Fitton will still have to take him to court because SSW is advised by Mick the Greek.

So does he want to go to court? Said the other day he said he didnt.

I thought he said that he didn't want to incur yet more legal fees. On the basis that he'd be chasing £1.12m (plus costs probably), and that assuming he'd win on the basis of proper due diligence having been done (and thus get his costs for that back as well), why on earth wouldn't he go through the Courts ?

He probably dosnt want to go to court. I bet he wants £1m more than he dosnt want to go to court though.

Hiring some 'heavies' would be a lot cheaper (and probably a lot more effective) than going to court. Not that I condone that sort of action ofcourse.

on the other hand if fitton did haveto take wills to court, and the piece of paper is cast iron, the judge could could well add all the costs on top of the 1million for wasting the courts time i suppose

Yes, that's a common occurrence to have an order to pay the other side's costs as well as your own. Not so much for wasting the court's time, more in cases where one side clearly shouldn't have to occur the expense, because either they've been the victim of a ridiculous lawsuit that should never have been brought, or because they've ended up having to sue over something that should have been settled without recourse to law

Pieces of paper with signatures on them don't always guarantee to do what they say they will...just ask Neville Chamberlain.

Can't let that pass without a  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Verdict is in...

http://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10341~1645074,00.html

COURT VERDICT
Posted on: Fri 01 May 2009

The Club has previously commented on the High Court proceedings brought against it by DATASAT Communications Limited ("DATASAT"), Mr. William Power and Mr. Phillip Emmell, in which they alleged that monies in excess of £1m which they had paid to the Club in 2007 should be repaid to them.

Originally, the proceedings, which commenced in July 2007, were principally brought against the Club's former Holding Company. However, these claims were amended and brought against the Club after the former Holding Company entered into Administration in March 2008. The Club has vigorously defended the claims.

Following a week-long trial in the High Court of Justice in London during the week commencing 16 March 2009, Judgement in this matter was delivered this morning by Deputy Judge Mr. Gavin Kealey QC.

The Club is delighted to announce that the Court has ruled that the claims brought against the Club by DATASAT, Mr. Power and Mr. Emmel have failed.

The process of the Club's costs recovery will now commence.

Commenting on the case the Club Chairman, Andrew Fitton, said:

"The STFC shareholders and the Board are obviously delighted that this protracted matter has finally been brought to a conclusion.

Andrew Fitton, Chairman
Andrew Fitton: "We Can Now Put The Past Behind Us"

"We are equally delighted with the judgement, but it is just unfortunate that this matter should have found its way to court in the first place.

"Significant legal costs were incurred by all of the parties in this litigation. It is regrettable that these could not have been avoided.

"Thankfully, we can now concentrate all of our efforts on continuing to re-build STFC and put the past behind us."

Excellent news, let's hope that is the end of it.

Fucking great news!

How much would the legal costs be does anyone know or?

So Diamnadis and Co were in the right?

Seems so!  I cant get used to all of this good news, doesn't feel quite right.

Excellent news - somehow I don't think the result would have been the same if F&Co hadn't taken over and the old company hadn't gone bust... Thank God for Mr F!

Jesus, didn't see the one coming. Thought it would be a dead cert that Power would win.

So BP was as dodgy as Mick The Bubble?

So what will happen now regarding ownership?

Not sure if corporate law follows the same principles of innocent until proven guilty, but I guess Power had to show that it was definately a loan rather than Diamandis and co showing it was definately a share purchase?

Thing is though, if Power legitimately held a lot of the shares in the holding company, how did they sell to Fitton without his say so? Unless it was only a small stake, but that would value the club at several million.

I suppose it depends if the shares were in the football club, or the holding company.

Appeal....? ::)

They were in the holding company and they didn't have majority share, hence the other shareholders could force a sale.

Feel sorry for Power and Emmell, clearly got shafted by the old lot!

Well thats my take on it anyway, the issue gets ore complex all the time

For those who have a clue legally, can this decision be appealed? I'd hate it to drag on even further.

Seems a strange choice of words saying their case "failed" and not being a bit more specific about the costs claim.

Hopefully the full ruling will be made public so we can see exactly what the judge said.

Maybe Fitton will spend the million he had in his back pocket to payout when they list this case can be spent on players now. Unlikely of course, but we can but hope.

Thinking about it, this effectively confirms Power & Emmell have a shareholding in the old holding company - now in administration. This holding company held a majority share in the football club, right?

Fittons new holding company bought the football club shares from the old holding company. Surely that should mean as shareholders of the holding company, Power & Emmell should've been entitled to a proportion of the money paid by Fitton's company for the football club shares - which I'm guessing they never got.

It said the claim had failed. I take that to mean Power & Emmell claimed the money was only a loan but the judge ruled it was shares.

That would be my take - if so, then they need to go after the directors of the old company as it would be my guess they divvied out the money based on share ownership before administration - trouble is, Mick the Greek 'wasn't' a Director so it would come down to SSW & Co... I think...

That's what I thought. I wonder if Power will go after them for his share or whether he'll just cut his losses.

Or we can hang on to cox now, as we dont have to sell him to pay the bill hopefully!

I'm in shock with the outcome.

Diamond Mike has seemingly got away with it...again.

Whilst it's a shame that Bill and Phil have been screwed by the old board i just want what is best for STFC. It means no costs to us which is fantastic. Let's look forward and look to build for next season. We might now be able to spend some of that Cox money. Yay.

Hard to know what to make of it, don't have the necessary legal background or case details. I guess nothing is black and white in law.

But good news for the club whatever.


No chance, he's gone whatever.


Did he actually pay for the club, or just take on the debt? I can't remember.

Does Fitton still have to pay for the court costs?

Doubt any money was paid, more likely an undertaking of the debt.

Power's loan/shares would have been through the holding company, so it's very likely the seperation with the football club is the deciding factor - so the Holding Co going into Admin pretty much leaving Power with no legal way of obtaining the money back without pursuing the owners of the Holding Co I guess.  Seems he'll end up out of pocket, which is a bugger, but as someone else said, the club is the most important thing for us.

Good news for the club ... I would have sympathy with Power and Emmell but in all honestly they should have realised they were trying to get the money back from the wrong people ...

Don't think so.

Not if he hasnt lost he wont do

Its not that simple, winning a case doesn't necessarily mean the other side has to pay all or even part of your costs. Comes down to what the judge decides based on things like who was at fault, whether there was a strong basis for the case, the amount of costs incurred, whether the parties tried to settle before court and so on.

The general rule is 'Loser pays winners costs', so i presume Power and the others will have to pay for Fitton's costs. Unless the Judge ruled that they don't have to, which is pretty unlikely.

If it worked like that than yeah, but I suspect you knew it wasn't a choice of going for the money from the club and are just on the wind up.

people were prepared to protest for power to gain control of the club.now many are glad he's lost a case against it.
how things change.....
where's me orange hat gone?

Whilst it's good (& Welcome) news for the club & the new board, I can't help feeling that justice has not been done.
As Samdy says if it wasn't a loan it was shares. ie Bill P had a "share" of the holding company which sold off it's only asset (the Club).
The way I see it then, if the holding Co sold said asset for say £2,000,000 that money goes into the holding Co. Then I assume the holding Co paid off any debts it must have had & went into admin.
The only LEGAL sticking point I would imagine is if dividends were paid to the mjority shareholder, but no others. eg If Bill is supposed to own 25% of shares (lets say), then his share would be £500,000, but I guess they never took any dividends out so all of the money was used to pay off  debts of the holding comapny (which were probably loans made to the Holding Co by SSW himself).
Typical Diamandis trickery, & I still loathe hiom with a passion & am just glad that he is gone from STFC

Arriba, people want the best for the club. Power taking over from Wills and co would have been good for the club. The club having to pursue said former owners for £1m or more would not be in the club's best interests. A lot of people have expressed sympathy for Power alongside relief for the club.

That said, I'd be suprised if this was the end of it.

I still have mine....... & my opinions have not changed. In terms of the club we support today it's good news. However I feel sickened about the immorality of the whole thing. How ever you look at it a guy who was willing & did put his money on the line to save the club has basically been stitched up.
Whilst I support AF & co & always have, if they hadn't come in when they did Bill P would have been our only hope. I for one will never forget that.
He may have lost the case, but that doesn't mean ihe was in the wrong.

Gobsmacked with that result, thought Power was a 1/10 on favourite to win his case.

Good news for us of course.

Dont think this will be the end of the matter for Power, I'm sure he will now go after those he should have gone after in the first place. Are you sitting comfortably Sir Seaton?

i agree with you.exept the jury is still out for me regarding fitton and co.

Dell, I hope he does, but for the reasons I posted above, I doubt he could suceed now. The way I see it Diamandis has managed to take him for £1,000,000 plus to pay off (some of the) debts of the holding company which were probably secured on the Wills estates. (If that is not the case where did the purchase price of the club go?)

In fairness Dell Bill and Phil did go after them in the first place until as Rob T points out, they tried to duck the bullet by "folding the holding", knowing full well that would force the legal case on to the club. But I'd agree I hope there's some way that those actually responsible for this mess can be made to pay. Nice to see Diamandis fucked off to Cyprus rather than face the music in court and so left the Wills carrying the whole can - speaks volumes for the backbone of the man

They convinced me early on, but I must admit at the time anything was better than what we had, which was only slightly worse than the BEST holdings stitch up.

i cannot help thinking that had fitton not come on the scene,eventually the previous board would have had to hand the club over to bill power.
 i would take power over fitton given a choice.

Good point, Fitton said at the AGM £1 nominal fee + all debts taken on.

I wouldn't. I've seen what Fitton's done at the Club and in many things he's been hands on. BP was an unknown quantity, yes he put some money in and may have been a great chairman, but we'll never know.

Fitton was willing to take us over lock stock and barrel and had to deal with the previous fuckwits in order to do so. BP wanted to buy in.

I would too, but there was no choice & the new owners do have a lot more money behind them. 

Bill P & Phil Emmel would have given fans more of a stake in the club, & thats what swings it for me. However, AF may well give us the opportunity to do the same in the future too.

Why would you prefer Power to Fitton?

I've just modified my post above to answer that. The way I see it if we the fans could get a significant stake (influence) in the club we can prevent the likes of Diamandis wrecking the club. The beauty about the fans consortium was that we could have acheived that but still had the backing of some money.

Having said that I myself don't doubt the new boards intentions & as I say they do have more financial clout.

I'd rather leave the running of the club to successful businessmen. Stockport are run by the supporters, it doesn't always work out.
Out of interest, how many of the clubs in the top two divisions have significant fan representation at board level?

Fitton or Power? Now some of the figures are known about the debt levels I don't think Bill P had the financial resources to keep the club going forward. I may be wrong.

For that alone I think Fitton was ultimately the best choice for the clubs long term well being.

However I am pretty sure Power would have handled the football side of things better. He'd be on much less of a learning curve given he'd done it all before.
--
Ultimately, I'm just glad we are an ongoing concern with a seemingly open and honest board. I say seemingly only becauseI can't accept good things happening at STFC!

I'm not sure how many, but one thing is for sure just as turkeys wouldn't vote for Xmas fans wouldn't countenance some of the tricks that Diamandis & co got up to.  I do however take the point about the running of the club being best done by successful business men, but would point out that BillP & Phil E have been pretty successful to make the money in the first place. Having said that I pretty much afgree with Batch's view.

I am though ashamed at the reaction of some so called supporters of STFC on thisis. I'd like to think that their type of "support" was purely for the likes of Franchise FC supporters.
http://forum.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=80436#80436

I agree, its a couple of successful businessmen, or alot of fans pitching in. There will be more arguements caused by what happens on and off the pitch if more people are involved. A small board = less problems, and less hassle for the club and fans. Fans are there to be fans, owners are there to be owners.

It can also lead to problems if the owners don't have the clubs best interests at heart. Fans do !
Look at how the Pox were stitched up by Kassam, look at Southhampton, but more so look at what Diamandis did to US.

I don't advocate a fans forum for every decision etc, or even fan ownership neccesarily. More I DO advocate a fans representative on the board to give our view point on things. (like S/T renewal deadlines for example). That rep would also need to be suitably qualified to ADD value to the board.

I'll only mention one club which is (in one way) run by fans - Barcelona ?

Stockport are in the same position as Rotherham - they were run into the ground by "successful businessmen" to the extent that no-one wanted to take them on except the Supporters' Trust. By which time, the Trust were left to take over a club drowning in debt, with it's major asset and source of revenue (the ground) sold off from out under them and having to pay high rents to even use that asset. What is surprising is not that the weight of that eventually became too much to bear but the fact they actually managed to keep things going for as long as they did, for much of that time running close to break even

An open, honest board consisting of successful businessmen who have their own vision for the club but are open to the idea of being accountable in some small way to the fanbase - and open to offering that fanbase an opportunity to safeguard against future Diamandises (Diamandii?) - would be ideal. And thanks to a lot of hard work from a lot of people (including Bill Power and TrustSTFC, but mostly Andrew Fitton and Jeremy Wray) that's what we've got. Let's make the most of it.

No, just the opposite in fact. I understand the judge ruled, as Bill and Phil have always maintained and Diamanis vehemently denied ("We welcome the opportunity to prove our cast iron case in court" or words to that effect), that the money was indeed a loan, not a shareholding. But the case failed because the judge ruled the loan was to the holding co not the club. In other words, the "folding the holding" scam worked

The rulings out :

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/4337204.Town_success_in_Power_s_High_Court_bid/

Basically the judge has ruled that it WAS a loan, as Pail says

So  in other words Bill and Phil were actually right,  but suffer the consequences of trusting the Wills, Diamandis and co.

And now they have to go to the supervisor of the administration of the Holding Co., who I believe is a certain Andy Andronikou !!!

I wouldn't be holding my breath for any money.

Yes spot on. Hope they get their money they way they should get it. By ensuring that those idiots pay them what is owed from their own pockets.

is james wills still on the board?

NO

Yes. Although hopefully not for much longer now this is out of the way

James Wills is a non-executive member of the board. So he is on the board but doesn't have any say in the day to day running of the club.

I don't really have any sympathy for Power, I'm disappointed he tried forcing money from the Club than diamond mike.  I doubt he gives a crap about us.

FFS please tell me you don't need the whole indemnity thing explaining all over again. Look back in the thread

 :D

So if Fitton hadn't managed to get the indemnity out of the old board, BP wouldn't have taken the club to court?

Does that mean Fitton & Co will now tell James Wills to do one & remove him from his non executive role? As that chinless wonder is a constant reminder of the failure of the ancien regime & its discredited association with Diamandis.

I would expect so.  And as an Arsenal fan, I doubt James will be particularly bothered.

If Fitton hadn't managed to get the indemnity, I'm pretty sure the takeover wouldn't have proceeded. It's a bit of an if me aunt had balls question really

Once this case is out of the way ( appeal ? ) and we get rid of chat arrogant little cunt Wills then the past has gone. Fair play to Fitton etc. I do, however, feel sorry for Power and Emmell - I think they've been treated shabilly but not by Fitton. The judgement is fair and I hope they set to Wills to get their money back.
If we look at the history of the club, we should be sorry for Wills who has balied us out but fuck me if ever one bloke was badly advised, its him. In the end he deserves ouir contempt.

Would I be correct in thinking that the only winner here is again Diamond Mike...
He continued to get payments from STFC (Bill Powers money) when the club was totally insolvent by the form of Marketing, Program production and payments such as salaries to his associates / friends, and even his son in law etc etc....
Surely further action could and should be leveled at his door or driveway or even car !!!!!
I could suggest the possible wording
Greek Cunt
Mother fucker and the list goes on and on....

And as for Bill Power....I suggest that you were / are a real good guy who wanted the best for the club and was taken for a ride...Wills was just a spine less prick.  !!!

 >:(

I have read the whole thread now and what stands out is the testicle issue surrounding Pauld's aunty, Paul is she of a good standard? If so im willing to put them to one side ;-)

So what happens with costs?

The way the Adver story reads, the club will be looking at the Wills for a contribution under the indemnity. Is that correct, that there is no award of costs and each side must foot their own bill?

Why is everyone holding a love-in with Bill Power?

He lent money to the holding company of a football club that was broke and bordering on bankruptcy. Then he decides he wants his money back, but rather than joining the queue at the insolvent holding company he tries to jump the queue and goes after the football club and the new owners instead - no doubt on the basis that they have loads of cash and can afford it.

He loses the court case and leaves the football club with a new bill for £100k's in the process.

I don't buy that he was tricked or misled either, he lent the holding company money then wanted it back - simple as that. Though he can't be a very good businessman if he thought he would see any of that money ever again, loans to insolvent football clubs aren't generally a good investment.

One thing I don't get though is where all the debts were when Fitton took over.

Were there debts at the holding company and the football club?

Or was the Power loan the only debt with the holding company?

Did Fitton only take on the debts at the football club?

Erm, because if he hadn't stuck a million quid into our football club when he did it would have gone bust. Read the judge's quotes in the Adver article, makes it clear there was no other funding coming in and we wouldn't have lasted that summer without that money (or what was left of it once certain people had finished skimming off the top).

And then backed us (all of us, not just the Trust) in a protracted battle to get rid of the poison that was ruining our club. Which led in no small part to the old lot even being prepared to think about selling rather than continuing to try and drip feed in while they waited for Diamandis' mythical pot of redevelopment gold.

Without Bill Power, we wouldn't have a club. Simple

Yeah but apart from all that what has Bill Power ever done for us  ::)

Well, there's the aqueducts

that spring water at Bath tastes shit. what the fuck was he thinking

OK, I get it now.

Power taking the club to court (incurring it court costs and potentially scaring the current investors away) is OK and is still a good guy as he once put a million quid in to the club and saved it from going out of business. Whilst the Wills family are cunts for acting like twats as all they did was put 10 million quid in to the club and kept it going for years.

Makes perfect sense.

Great post almost as good as Almunia for England that was genius hahaha.  Yes of course you can compare Power and Wills, lets not forget Bill involved his evil assistant and charged huge admin expenses off the club for years, tried to sell us to some dodgy foreign agents, stole transfer fees and took us to the brink of destruction oh no wait that was Sir Satan Wills.

Fitton & Co will be looking for Wills to pay the costs they have incurred under the indemnity that was signed, hopefully Wills will cough up quickly so it does not have a knock on affect, as the club has obviously paid out quite a bit.

James Wills is a grade A twat

Having re-read my post, I'd just clarify that I wasn't trying to make out that the Wills family hadn't acted like twats and damaged the clubs over the years - as they have in many ways. I was just making the point that given they've lost 10 times the money that Power has, I reckon that allows them to act 10 times the twat that Power has.

People seem to conveniently ignore the fact that Power took the club to court resulting in the club incurring substantial legal fees and even with the indemnity there is no guarantee the club will see that money again. And where did Power think the money was going to come from if he had won the case? It would have come from the club or the new owners, again with no guarantee that the Wills family would pay up.

Where is the evidence they put in the amounts you are suggesting?

and if they did how much interest did they charge on it?

My evidence comes from Judge Gavin Kealey QC, in his ruling on the case he stated the Wills family had supported the club to the tune of £14 million over the years. No matter how much interest and other benefits they got, they have put a shit load of cash in to the club over the years which they aren't going to see again and deserve a bit of respect and leeway as a result.

http://thetownend.com/index.php/topic,34150.0.html

They get no respect from me they took us to the brink of non existance, I would ban them from the ground.

I did have a lot of respect for SSW, but that evaporated when he allowed Diamandis to wreck the club. If he had had the strength of character to stand up to Diamandis & kick him out fine, but he didn't.
As for James with the Silver Spoon, his attitude towards the fans & the club, & support for Uncle Mikey leaves me full of contempt.

i would have thought they got a reasonable part of 14 million back as interest on their own loans

Not only interest, I expect that a fair lump of the capital was repaid also.

And for the record:

I don't hate SSW, I just think that he is an incompetent, clueless wet blanket.
That fat Greek is another matter, he knew exactly what he was doing and so therefore is a cunt.
That James sounds as though he needs a good slap.

Whats all the sympathy with Power...do you think this guy has never done someone over in buisness...course he has,what goes around comes around...lets hope hes learned his lesson,nice fella by all acounts so i hope he forgets about footy and after his near death episode while flying he should concentrate on enjoying  the fruits of life his hard earned money can afford him.

power threw money at stfc.he was also the man who gave us wise and poyet.
he deserves sympathy.i hope he takes wills and those other cunts to the cleaners

Which part of indemnity are you struggling with exactly? For the umpty-ninth time, the Wills signed a legally binding agreement as part of the takeover that they would indemnify the club against any losses arising from the court case. The cost of this case was always going to reside ultimately with the Wills.

jonny72 does appear to have a comprehension problem. Poor boy.

The same kind of legally binding agreement that Power signed when he bought the shares, sorry, loaned the money to the club / holding company which ended up in the High Courts and him still being no closer to getting his money back?

I fully understand what the indemnity is supposed to do, but you seem to think Fitton will just gives the Wills a call and they'll say "no problem, the cheque's in the post". Things don't normally happen like that in the real world (see previous paragraph).

And who threw money at the club for years,when we were in the shit...millions in fact,ime not a fan of the Wills but they baled out the club for years...they didnt ask for there money back did they...Power is a QPR fan...he didnt come here to help STFC...if he did he wouldnt be asking for his money back...get a grip lads...the Town havnt got to pay so who gives a fuck...not me for one.

Leefer, that is top post imo.

Leefer,  thats a bit harsh on Power. As far as I can see he was football fan who thought he could "adopt" a club and have some fun whilst doing so. He's not unique in this and after his intervention we did alright. Withuot the plane crash, who knows- he may have taken over and I would have welcomed it.
I'm not sure anyone has actually worked out the net loss to Wills as money was being syphoned out of the club left, right and centre. If I read it correctly, however, to loan STFC money and then regard yourself no 1 creditor at above market rates is not a bad touch. So whereas the capital may not reduce, then you#re on a good earner is a shitload less ethical than what Power did.
Apologies if this is bollox but I've had a few. 

They never signed an agreement. That was at the centre of the dispute as to whether the money was a loan or shares, that there was no documentary evidence, hence it was all "He said, she said". Thankfully the court have sorted that out. There will be no such dispute over the indemnity because in that case there is a legally binding agreement. Look, I understand the point you're trying to make but it's pretty obvious you're not that well acquainted with the facts, you keep undermining yourself rather badly.

The primary difference between the Wills family and Power is that the Wills family were in charge when they put their money in, when they repeatedly ignored the very many people who told them Diamandis was no good either for them or the club (and there were many, the Trust was by no means a lone voice, although we were one of the few to share our concerns with the fans for which we were excoriated), and when Bill Power put his money in, money which was desperately needed to stop the club going under as by that time they were no longer prepared to put any more in. They were also in charge when having pissed Bill Power's money up against a wall the then board decided to force him out (mutual agreement due to illness my arse) and tell him to go whistle for repayment of his money, a stupid decision that could only ever lead to legal dispute. They oversaw years of Diamandis and the Newbury crew wrecking the club and despite all they could see around them, despite all the money they put in or underwrote (because a good chunk of that supposed £10m or whatever is not money they directly invested but that they underwrote loans from the likes of St Modwen) going to waste, despite the advice of people who pleaded with them to get rid of Diamandis for their own sakes as well as the clubs, they still persisted pig-headedly in keeping the man ru(i)nning the club and their own fortune. In the middle of that, Diamandis (in his own words) "scammed" Bill and Phil out of a million quid, a good chunk of which never made it near the club, and the Wills either stood by while he did so or maybe even actively connived in this.

Under those circumstances, if you're the guys that have been "scammed" by this odious little fuck, and you're pretty sure you've got a good legal case to retrieve it, and you know that in taking that legal case on, the ones that will ultimately have to pay will be the people responsible for your loss, not the club, what would you do? Leave it down to "all part of life's rich tapestry"? Or go after the money which, you seem to have forgotten, was desperately needed to keep the club afloat that summer (although granted that didn't stop some people deciding their needs came before the club's which is why it didn't all reach the club).

My point regarding the indemnity is that a "legally binding agreement" isn't always as simple and binding as you believe it is. The Wills family could refuse to pay and fight it through the courts and there is no guarantee it will stand up. Hopefully it will but again, there is no guarantee it will and that is the problem I have with Power - he took the court action route knowing the club would have to foot the bill and then hopefully reclaim the money.

If he did give a toss about the club he wouldn't have gone down the route he did. Bearing in mind the ruling from the judge (that the debt was with the original holding company rather than the club) I'm surprised that he didn't award costs to the club - though its possible they haven't got to costs yet. If Power is such a wonderful person, how about he pays the clubs legal fees pending the Wills family coughing up? I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem doing this if it is such an open and shut case, so maybe you should ask him to?

You say I'm not acquainted with the facts of this case and you're right, I'm not. But I am acquainted with plenty of cases where so called "legally binding agreements" (credit card / loan agreements) were ruled by courts to be worth less than the recycling value of the paper they were written on.

Bottom line is Diamond Mike screwed the Wills family, Bill Power and most of all players and supporters of STFC end of story....!!! 

 :bye:

i think the argument was there was no paperwork, nothing was signed - i'm enough of a legal expert (I watch judge judy almost every day..) to know that all transfer of monies are considered loans, and can be recalled at any time, unless there is an agreement to state otherwise. 

Well obviously any supposedly legally binding agreement is only as good as the lawyers who draw it up. In this instance I've got a sight more faith in Fitton's lawyers than someone who seems to rather naively assume that anyone would shrug their shoulders when they've been done out of a million quid

Look, we're obviously not going to agree on this. You asked why people had sympathy with Bill Power on this. I and many others answered you - because at a time when the old regime were about to put our club down the plughole, he stepped in and without his intervention the club would have gone down

Someone summed it up perfectly for me yesterday.

Bill Power may be a nice bloke and may well have saved the club with his loan. But he's not involved with the club anymore. I support Swindon Town, not Bill Power and the fact he lost a court action against the club is, as far as I'm concerned, great news. The fact that we don't have to try and get the money back off the previous board is a huge relief.

Soooo, Bill Power can now look elsewhere to try in recoup his money and our new owners can carry on turning our club around. Time to move on.

I'd say that's pretty spot on actually hertha. I hope Bill does get his money back (and damages on top) from the people who "scammed" him. But I'm glad the club are out of the loop now

Precisely. Well put herthab.

I actually think I support Bill Power more than the football club. He looks more like a big teddy bear.

I agree with your sentiments, Herthab. I do think Power was extremely unlucky to come across a cunt like Diamandis though. With hindsight it was incredibly naive of him to write out cheques for over a million without anything being put in writing, but he had people like his friend Mark Devlin around him as CEO of the club at the time, so I guess he was guilty of being sucked in to what seemed like a credible setup and let his guard down in the seductive business that is football.

I'm not suggesting that Devlin was in any way complicit in the soon to be played out Wills/Diamandis scam, only that he probably unwittingly paved the way at the time for Power to ignore basic business principles.

The ruthless, shameful, opportunistic / cuntish treatment of Bill Power, Phil Emmell, Mark Devlin & loyal servants of the club like Linda Birrell after the plane crash speaks volumes about the Wills and Diamandis era.

Time for us all to move on and to let Andrew Fitton move the club forwards? Yep. Spot on. I feel sorry for what happened to Power and co in every respect, but I'm a town fan and I'm glad that the club can now move on.

Time to forgive and forget what Wills and Diamandis did to the club, the supporters and people like Bill Power, Mark Devlin etc? No fucking chance. 

Totally agree, good post.

Again...spot on
Forgive and forget....yeh right
I for one would love to leave a "calling card" at the Greek cunts house....

 :smack:

I'm sure it would be a nice gesture to invite Power & Emmell to a game next season as guests of the club.

they've suffered enough Power to people!

Wanted to add to Deltacline's comment, that I'm sure I was unwittingly involved in this case. I don't think Bill would have become involved if there wasn't someone at the club he already knew, and I regret even taking the 'opportunity' to him, after I was asked to. However, I was aware of the very serious situation facing the club at the time, and I understood there was nowhere else to go. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, Bill was in the driving seat, and probably could have screwed the best possible deal for himself by refusing to release any monies before getting absolutely whatever he wanted, and more, out of any deal. But as CEO at the time, the concern was to keep the club going, so I was very pleased when he acted the way he did. You never imagine that a personal catastrophe of the flying type is ever going to happen to you, even less the way others would use the opportunity. But you live and learn and life moves on.

Good luck to you all next season. Hope it's a good one.       

Mark D......a man with no shelf life.....still tops!

good to hear from you mark, come and join us at the back of the don rogers again soon.

Interesting last line, i guess the likes of us will never know how much BP and PE were stiffed, so glad (hopefully) that the worst for the club and the fans seems to be over.

BP: I'd like a blimp with my name on it displayed at all future home matches, oh and a new flasher mac for MD.
SSW: Done.
[BH leaves room]
BP: Do you smell burning leather?


Jokes aside, this is why we shouldn't be critical of who would have been better for the club. Both Fitton and Power saved our clubs and STFC goes on as a result of this.