Thetownend.com

A follow on from the Redevelopment vote thread.

A simple vote on how you would have voted under different circumstances provided in this poll.

Reality for me is 1 and could be 2, so i had to vote 1

Pretty much this for me too.

Any chance of making it multi-vote? I'm sure lots might want different answers!

I went for 2 - although 1 is also a factor.

Even if we had super duper trusted owners…

Things I’d want clear answers for:
Do these boxes run alongside the current facilities in the Arkells?
If yes - is there current demand for the extra hospitality? Do we sell out & turn people away currently? Or is the plan the assumption people will turn up in droves because it’s new & shiny?
If no - then how do these new facilities bring in significantly more than the current set up.

What benefits does this bring to the football club?
Currently the only thing I can go on roughly is the 6 year ROI - that’s 500k profit a year, basically 10k a week. How do they plan on having the new facilities make 10k profit every week?
Will any of that extra profit go towards the playing budget? I’d currently assume not - seeing as from my understanding the club currently run at a 2m loss a year. An extra 500k per year just reduced that loss (which Clem funds) to 1.5m a year.
So, all these new facilities add is 3m debt to start with - then after 6 years they reduce the money Clem puts in (also technically debt) to 1.5m a year.

Under current trends that means after the 6 years the debt would be 27m (12m + 3m + [2m a year x 6])

So what are the benefits?

For me, on paper this only works if the development is basically funded purely out of pocket with no pay back. The capital needs to be a gift to the football club in order to make his viable. Clem won’t (understandably) do that. You’d need to Man City money for that.

I could of course be talking absolutely rubbish and / or I’ve missed the answers to my above musings but I just don’t see what the actual benefits are.

Even if the master plan was to do this development with a view to selling up - I’m not sure the new facilities outweigh the extra 3m debt with regards to making the club marketable.

I’d definitely be more inclined to just roll with it under different ownership

Be decisive man! :D

Should be both really shouldn't it, if we're voting responsibly. The plans should be solid and we should have trust in the owners. You'd definitely give more leeway to owners with a good track record and not a history of lying though, but the plans should still be solid and there should be provisions against just whacking a block of flats on the car park for example.

You can fund this development through loans, but not over 6 years.  It is the sort of thing you'd finance over 10/15/20+ years.  You would pay that back, but over a long period to reduce the outgoings, then reinvest the profit you think you can make into the running of the club.

I'd prefer that to this opaque approach Clem takes of unclear sources and terms,, loading the club with debt (because he has never switched anything to equity) and essentially keeping it hanging there.

Sounds negative but I can’t see anything happening under the current regime so it’s a big 1 from me.

I can see it getting voted in and then being an absolute disaster personally.

I don't believe we'll ever see another plan under this lot. We'll get talk of one but never see it.  

Hopefully.

Hoping this and the court case in 30 days will mean Morfuni fucks off. 

Just depends if we sell to legit people or Adam Harts drug mules uncle from there. Then the more cretinous of our fan base will probably tell 'the clem out mob' that its what we wanted.

We’re still a shambles off the pitch and going nowhere fast😁

Where did you hear it's in 30 days?

I thought the ROI was 6 years, not the loans? I don't remember seeing anything on the length of the plan, the only thing confirmed was it would have been interest free to the club

6 years reliant on 2 years in the championship!  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Someone said on here he has to give more info in 30 days.

I think you have missed my question though but yes two years in the Championship is looking very ambitious to say the least.

Ah, I said he has to be available for 30 days to answer more questions if they come.

But I don't know what happens, and when,  after that.

Sorry for the confusion.

It's very unclear if/how the investment is paid back and when.

Or if that has been answered I've missed it.

I've not seen anything but Rob stated it was 6 years to repay the loan, which is why I asked.

Rob didn't say that

The first sentence Batch?

The first sentence says you shouldn't finance this over 6 years

The bit about opaque terms gives away the the terms are opaque manc

Implying that it has been financed over 6 years or why mention it. Which is why I asked the question.

The Business plan (albeit making a rather big assumption on performance) indicated that we would make the £3m costs back in six years, so it’s fair to assume that the club would pay back the loans (which Clem admitted he would have to take out to cover the build costs) out of the additional profits.

Unless of course you believe that those profits would go elsewhere?

The ownership stated a 6 year ROI, but indicated no repayment of loans in the costings on the business plan.  I said you wouldn't want a loan for 6 years - my point being there is no need to push for such a quick ROI if there are proper loans in place.  We actually have no idea what type of loans he is planning on taking, only some hint of using assets either personal or through Axis to use as security.  Something he has done in the past.  We also have no idea what the repayment requirements are for the club, because Clem/Axis will be the source - he could be planning on just loading that debt on the club with no repayment, we could be due to pay it all back in 6 years, or every month, or.......

The ROI calculation is based on the profit they are calculating each year vs the outlay.  DV's point is if we are just trying to make enough to pay it all back in 6 years, the club won't benefit.  I'm saying they should be spreading that over a longer term, paying it back, calculating the profit including those repayments and then identify that as funding to push the club forward.

Again, Clem doesn’t understand balance sheets or P & L accounts so, you know it could be anything made up.

Fuck knows why most of this thread is people making points about the ROI period and business plan when over 2/3rds of you are pretty clear the thing that's motivating you is the owner.

I'm guessing you all have  "plan" to win the Euro millions tomorrow and making Clem a big cash offer? I'm not sure anyone but a die hard Town fan with money to burn would touch the club with a very long shitty stick at  the moment.

Or, crazy fucking idea, some of us have, over the years, built some contacts in our careers and keep trying to poke enough people who do have the right levels of money to look our way?

I would vote yes with the right guardrails, even with Clem as owner.  A decent development will benefit future owners.  I have always had an inkling that they were never trying to get to shovels in the ground though, but that isn't based on any sort of insider knowledge.

I can’t speak for anyone other than myself but I’m talking ROI & business plans because I don’t understand how this massively benefits the club & I’m questioning whether the demand & forecasted numbers are realistic…

…now this business plan has presumably been put together by…..wait for it….the owner.

So I’d say not trusting the owner & questioning the business plans are very closely linked together.

…and that doesn’t even bring in to question the delivery of previous ground related ‘improvements’

This.

It's not so much "the owner", Dalumpi, but "the ownership".

There is no true "owner" be it a Company, an individual or a consortium.  There is a collection of individuals with hidden obligations between them that they are unable or unwilling to discharge or even accept.  Getting rid of Power was arguably a first step but has turned out to be the only step.  The Club is effectively ownerless which means it drifts in circles with it's tiller stuck in place

That being the case, it is hardly surprising that all the Club could come up with was some pretty pictures for a precariously financed hospitality facility.  No other vision whatsoever.  Despite having actually signed a Joint Venture Agreement and also a purchase agreement committing itself to ground Development plans TWO YEARS ago.

Clem would no longer be first choice owner for me but the current impasse is a disaster waiting to happen that needs to be addressed.  For any Development to succeed, the Club first needs an owner with control.

What makes me wonder, it was said any finance is interest free, but I think we all know Clem hasn't got that sort of money in his bank account, so where is the money coming from and why is it being loaned interest free from a 3rd party.....

There's some right fucking melons on the fb page. The derogatory posts about people who voted no.

Parallels with the Brexit vote. But that’s what the internet and social media has become.

Are you trying to be a parody of an annoying cunt or are you just actually a bit fucking mental?

Few on here as well.

They’re currently arguing who was the better chairman Power or Clem :D

There's a reason i dipped out of that FB page after being a member for about 2 weeks, that was enough for me..  My life is so much better not being part of it

I don't think I even left the one group I was in but it's no longer coming up on my feed and I'm quite happy with that.

 :clap:

'Trust the Clemente process' seems to be the official party line.

I have a theory that a couple of them are the same person.

They seem to pop at the same time and then disappear for weeks. 

I don't believe that some of these people on the FB Group actually exist.

Oh i think they do

How they get through life is anyones guess mind

I occasionally try to have a reasoned discussion on there. Typically ends up with the usual suspects responding with a laughing emoji when they run out of valid arguments.

What boils my piss with that group is the constant "who do you think is financing the club", "who saved us from extinction" who's admitted mistakes and has rectified that and is our only hope"
Blind, blinkered or plain stupid but by fuck there are some very special ones around.

Or 'I dont see a queue of people lining up to buy us' or 'are you going to buy us then'?

To be fair I dont know how football investors work, but im pretty sure it's generally done fairly covertly.

The second point is clearly ridiculous. I'd say there were a lot of trees fallen out of when these people were younger. Seems they landed on the softest parts of their bodies, their heads!

Would be good if they actually understood what a supporters trust was too. They seem to think its the Freemasons.

Coming up for a week on from the vote confirmation, how long do you think it'll be before the club say anything beyond their holding statement?

That's bonkers as well.

That bloke and his laughing emoji is an absolute moron.

Have a feeling they will stay quiet until the season has started, then if we get off to a good start will try and wheel something out off the back of it

Ambitious that. Far easier things they don't understand.

Don't think they have the luxury of waiting that long if they have any intention of meeting the deadline. If I were running STFC right now, I'd be having serious conversations with the Trust about how to get people on board, what assurances and mechanisms can be put in place, and then looking to make a statement during that process to highlight the progress being made. Would probably take 2-3 weeks minimum to get to that point though.

Read on twitter we have asked the EFL to play first game away from home as pitch wont be ready

Wtf

Holding some concerts obviously held it back if true

FGR did similar last season after having similar stitching done. Want to say they didn't have a home game for most of August

Scrap that, groundsman says its incorrect

And this is a lesson not to believe weird curtain twitchers on Twitter.