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So assuming we get the LWB today who can play tomorrow what are we ssaying our strongest 11 is. I had been sucked in to thinking we didn't have many options but that midfield does look strong

Mahoney

FBT
UGM
AN Other or Brewitt (assuming Clayton injury)

Hutton
LWB signing

McEachran
Kinsella
Kemp

RHM
Austin

I think. Leaves Khan, Shade, Cain, Wakeling, Young, Minturn on the bench, which isn't terrible.

Main worry about that for me is it's a very short team unless the new CB is a monster. Actual combativeness is much better than last year I think, but set pieces would be my worry.

Well... assuming he joins, and ignoring injuries.

GK. Mahoney
RWB. Hutton
LWB. Uwakwe
RCB. UGM
CB. Clayton
LCB. FBT
CM. Khan/Kinsella
CM. McEachran
ACM. Kemp
SC. Austin
SC. RHM

I think Clayton is better and has more prospects that Brewitt. Though i expect another CB signing to come in and take that spot anyway.

I agree although Clayton showed me last year when with experience he is a better player so hope that is the case now

I look at that bench and think those players can all come in and do an ok job as subs or for the odd game. Wouldn't want to be relying on them though, and the recruitment in August will determine whether we're a mid-table side or a top 7 team.

We're groping towards where we wanted to be after last season. I don't think any of us looked at Wakeling, Kahn, Cain and Clayton and thought "they are shit, get rid" but it was clear they weren't ready to be the spine of the team. They're now the squad players to develop that we needed them to be.

Khan is 28 in December.  So doubt he will develop much more.   Hopefully will be used better this season though, further up the pitch ideally.

Khan just needs to keep his head this year. That would count as development.

HA yes exactly this.

100% this, he has ability but gets wound up way too easily and opposition managers and players know this.

Good thing is we have a replacement or alternative now

With two positions likely still unfilled, it's tough to tell, especially as I haven't really seen the new ones play so can't judge.

As things stand, my main worry for our best first XI is a lack of physical presence still, which includes height.  

There are a few players who we will need to rely on that I am not 100% sold on yet either - like everyone in our midfield from last season.  Glimpses were shown by most (even Cain) but enough to be relied upon to influence games every week, I am not yet sure.

The best signing we made appears to be Flynn, on paper.

I seriously doubt we can be as bad as we were since November, and we at least haven't got a squad of 40 odd.  That should at least provide some consistency.

I'll get back to you in a few weeks on how much better than the 22/23 vintage though.

We have at least been making the right moves - the right players leaving, the right positions being hunted to play the way the Manager wants to play and backfilling where we had most of our weaknesses.

At risk of derailing a post about starting 11 to a general squad discussion, again.

However its fair to say first 11 to last seasons is there much more experience or physicality in there? Not really, not right now at least. But with UGM, possibly this Tariq lad, and then a still expected physical experienced CB, then i think the physicality of the team is better than it was.

Experience may have edged forward slightly, counting as well the extra season all our current players have had, but yeah thats not moved on as much i would have hoped. We still have a very young squad.

It'd be interesting to see how it compares age wise and appearances compared to others. I think we can get caught up in just us at times when it looks like other clubs are going and doing similar

Let's worry about what we've got rather than what we haven't got.....we may be pleasantly surprised😀

Here's how tomorrow may look vs the final game of last season

Murphy (21) for Brynn (22)

Uwakwe (23) for Lavinier (22)

UGM (23) for Clayton (22)

Kinsella (27) for Khan (27)

Kemp (24) for Cain (21)

FBT (27) for Wakeling (21) - odd comparison but due to FBT's injury and a change of formation

In all but two of those swaps the age has increased, and I'd argue there's more experience position bar the GK.

Cheers Reeves, interesting list as it doesn't say much in age like you say but in experience i reckon theres about 3-400 league games more experience. That's the signings we should have made last season

Edged forward? We've added three players with over 350 games in League 2 between them  in the last week or so, probably more senior league appearances than the rest of the squad put together.I

It's massively better than the tail end of last season when Austin and Williams provided all our experience. We've now got a time served pro in each area of the pitch and hopefully another to come at CB.

It always surprises me how any one can be so sure, either way, on many players at this level.

Austin aside, everyone else is still going to be a bit of a mystery, even the ones we had last season to a degree given their relative newness to the mens game at L2 level.

Hutton could be the player who sets up 10+ goals a season, or the shambles he was was for a month or two after Morris joined.

RHM could be a break out season for him, or it could be a season of injury, poor discipline and promising far more than he can deliver as he missed too much of his youth development time.

And so on.

We have a few new players, on paper they look to be an upgrade on what we had before.

We have some missing positions (we assume) - those who would otherwise fill those slots, if we started right now, this very second, are risky based on what we saw before.

We still have, pure data alone, one of the lowest average age squads, which likely translates to lowest average age first XI.  That doesn't mean it will be shit, it doesn't mean it won't be great, just that it is one indicator that can mean something.  Last year was similar (we did have the likes of Gladwin, Reed, Williams & MaCdonald to balance) and it did not look very good at all, we looked like an Academy team.  Lower average age can be indicator of that.  Conversely, having a bunch of 30 somethings can just as easily mean you got all the shit ones leftover.

I do agree to a certain extent but i don't think it is too much to expect that for example Kinsella with 200 league games more than Khan will be more experienced and a better option than Cain who at times last season was our most experienced midfielder or that the lad from FGR with over 100 league games is likely a better option than Brewit who was out of contract with 3 months of the season left.

For me these are the youngsters now that i would have expected the 'data' to be pulling through last summer but it lookeds like we tried to be clever getting in there a year early.

For example-Tom Clayton, great preospect but never had a loan and comes here and put on a weight gaining program so he is up to the level needed for football at this level and has been playing catch up injury wise ever since,the lad Malife will not need that and will walk straight in.

That's the type of signings this club should make   

fair Rob.

I was quite happy to sign Shade last year for example, bit of experience and looked handy against us..

Me too and Hutton actually so i wonder if they started and then just tried to be clever

That’s why teams like Stevenage and Carlisle shows in L2 it really doesn’t matter as much.

Kinsella vs Reed, who you would argue is the better of our midfielders and closest to Kinsella from last season.  Not sure if I know if Kinsella is better and we need this team to be better than the 21/22 vintage as well.  I did say the new ones look like upgrades from what we had at the end, but fuck me, that's got to be given or we'd be relegated.

We still look, again on paper, to be absent the physical presence and Austin type (not to his level, that's asking a bit much) experience.  The know how to win games and battle through periods of poor form, to know how to handle those 10-15 mins when your backs are up against the wall etc.

I'd b e interested to see a games played comparison of the first Xi right  now vs the one that started last season (our best XI possible that is).

The standard is not that we need to be better than May 2023, it has to be better than May 2022.

who knows.

At least I can see what they were trying to do there!

Not only that….

We’ve swapped Lindsey for Flynn, which is huge with regards to experience, as well as all our youngsters having another season under their belts.

Sure its more experience, but most of the differences there are 1 or 2 years. Not here are 2 or 28/29/30 year olds added to the squad. Not yet anyway.

That's why I said it would be interesting to compare the August 2022 best First XI with where we are now.  Lindsey did not have Austin and started with 4 players with decent enough experience in the squad/team.  We have to be better than that - Manager is a good start, that does look an upgrade immediately.

Oh, and I forgot Baudry

So, I think this would have been the best XI we could put together matched to the Flynn shape:

Brynn
Hutton
Brennan
MacDonald
Baudry
FBT
Reed
Gladwin
Williams
McKirdy (replaced by Jephcott)
Wakeling

Thats is frightening when you look at the experience lost. Good old Spreadsheet Sandro!

Yep, and that's what I mean when I say it's tough to make a call on paper.  Brynn turned out OK, the new Keeper could be as good, could be better, could be worse, who knows.

That midfield three has some experienced legs in it - but it was not good enough when under the Kosh.  Does Kinsella, McEachran & Kemp offer more?  Certainly has potential if what we are told is true and what we have seen in glimpses is possible, but would you swap them wholesale if you had to make that decision?  Not sure I would, and it wasn't good enough for promotion (and was missing Payne from the year before, which was also not good enough).

Austin is the potential game changer upfront, but McKirdy did pretty well!

The defence looks quite passable on paper from 2022, but it wasn't that great either.  Does our current back five beat it?  Not sure, it may do when all recruitment is completed.

Balance sheet too

The reed we had last year? No contest i would rather Kinsella every day of the week. You can't compare like for like when he played 18 games and 9 of those he was sub or subbed

Which is fine, that's an opinion.  It's not one I can form because, despite watching Kinsella a few times I imagine, I couldn't tell you I remember his abilities to be honest.  Usually we won against Walsall!  I'm not knocking him, he looks like a decent signing.

Based on appearances and goals you can argue it was the right choice as well in some cases. I am not arguing against the case for experience and that doesn't excuse this weird strategy this summer but based on last seasons form on what i seen is a swindon shirt i would only be taking Williams back

The others were great the season before but they were awful last season for us

And for 21/22:

Wollacott
KKH
Conroy
Baudry
Crichlow
Hunt
Reed
Williams
Payne
Simpson
McKirdy

Wollacott/Ward rather then Benda ;)

Oops!  Fucking seasons in League Two, too many of them now.  I fucking hope we do not become a new version of what Rochdale used to be.

I don't disagree players like Reed were badly misfiring.

it is all about the replacements as is always said.

Not sure I can make the fans Q&A, but I'd love to know if there has been a squad adjustment that now means all things being equal we are running at breakeven.

Is there a way to submit questions?  I may have a few I fancy chucking in, especially after reading the report Carlisle produced.

Really interesting thread actually looking at it

The likely 3 starting 11s if this is tomorrows, do we think theres a huge difference in wages. I think the first one definetly will be the highest but ten the loans fill alot of that

Brynn
Hutton
Brennan
MacDonald
Baudry
FBT
Reed
Gladwin
Williams
McKirdy (replaced by Jephcott)
Wakeling

Benda
KKH
Conroy
Baudry
Crichlow
Hunt
Reed
Williams
Payne
Simpson
McKirdy


Mahoney

FBT
UGM
Clayton
Hutton
Tarik
McEachran
Kinsella
Kemp
RHM
Austin

As you say, hard to compare due to the loanees in 21/22 - only call out would be Payne who was probably the highest earner.

The club said we had an increased budget last season which I believe looking at the permanent additions and less reliance on loans.

I think it’s almost certain that will have reduced for this season - Clem’s response when asked by Hawes recently was telling.

Yeah think you are spot on. I think paying those nominal fees last summer for the likes of Khan Clayton and then Cain in January may have been silly mistakes on players with no league experience in hindsight

We're undoubtedly paying for last seasons mistakes this season. Probably still paying something towards Adeloye's wages FFS

Our starting lineups for our last 4 opening games

Saturday, August 3, 2019 at Scunthorpe
(4-2-3-1)
Luke MCCORMICK

Zeki FRYERS
Dion CONROY
Mathieu BAUDRY
Rob HUNT

Jordan LYDEN
Michael DOUGHTY

Lloyd ISGROVE
Keshi ANDERSON
Kaiyne WOOLERY

Jerry YATES

Saturday, September 12, 2020 v Rochdale
(4-2-3-1)
Matej KOVÁR

Rob HUNT
Zeki FRYERS
Akin ODIMAYO
Paul CADDIS   

Anthony GRANT   
Matt SMITH

Diallang JAIYESIMI
Jack PAYNE
Jonny SMITH

Tyler SMITH

Saturday, August 7, 2021 at Scunthorpe   
(4-2-3-1-)
Jojo WOLLACOTT                     

Rob HUNT
Dion CONROY
Mathieu BAUDRY
Kaine KESLER-HAYDEN

Ellis IANDOLO
Anthony GRANT

Harry MCKIRDY
Ben GLADWIN
Jack PAYNE

Tyreece SIMPSON

Saturday, July 30, 2022 at Harrogate

(3-5-2)
Sol BRYNN

Angus MACDONALD
Mathieu BAUDRY
Ciarán BRENNAN

Remeao HUTTON
Louis REED
Tyrese SHADE
Jonny WILLIAMS
Ben GLADWIN

Tomi ADELOYE
Harry MCKIRDY


I'd suggest looking at that we are not currently in too bad shape.

McGirty wanted out. Reed wanted out. Adeloye, wtf. That back 3. Yikes!

I imagine paying off Morris & Brand didn’t come cheap either…

That depends, we only got promoted in one of them, and I'd take that team in a heartbeat over the current one.

Yeah, but largely thanks to a player who wasn't there on the opening game of the season, in fact he joined for the 5th game.

Lyden and Doughty would run rings around our current midfield if playing against us.

That front four would have last seasons defence on toast - and we haven't filled two slots yet for this one.

Then you have Grant and Doyle to add to it, so yes please.  If we manage to sign two players of that quality between now and end of the month, we may well look in very good shape this season (on top of the three or so we already need just to get a full matchday squad up and running.

Teams change considerably over the course of a season, as ours will this season I'm sure. Flynn has said he's not done with the transfer market yet so lets see what happens over the next few weeks.

We may have signed them already, like you say we don’t know what they’re like yet. This is all hindsight and we are talking about players who at their absolute best were these very very good players. Not denying it whatsoever but to say they’d run rings round our current lot we just don’t know they’ve not played a league game yet.

It’s easy to select parts of teams and say they’re better, Our strikers now would likely have that defence on toast but we don’t play the same team every week

I'm basing the Lyden/Doughty + Anderson comment on the fact I believe they'd be the best three of any midfield I saw last season.

Yates/Doyle/Isgrove - which is what it would have been at peak for that season, would equally have bagged a number of goals last season if they somehow time travelled.

The defence wasn't amazing, but Wellens was one of the best Managers I have seen in a while for setting up a system that worked - for us, for that season.

My hope for this season is we recruit the missing bits and Flynn can also pull off that Manager influence.  We also need the following players to have break out seasons - the sort that attracts transfer interest from above:

Hutton
McEachran
+ one of Hepburn-Murphy or Wakeling

Not a season of promise, but one of delivering and real impact.  None of them are team of the season players for their position, based on last season.  Not quite or not close, depending on each of them.

Hutton needs to maintain the assists but shore up the rest of his game.

McEachran needs real output - goals and assists

The forwards need to be able to show they can lead that line even if Austin isn't around and one of them be in with a sniff of 20 goals.

That all happens, then the additions really do push us into contention if they are as good as described.

Definitely improved how I feel about what we've got. Some poor players littered amongst those teams.

I do feel we under appreciate our own players at times, myself included by the way as I recently been slating Hutton. Hutton stood out last year but defensively 100 percent needs to improve but if he has the exact same season he’s playing in a higher league next year .

Wakeling was shortlisted for young player of the year despite playing left back and right back under 3 different managers. He’s another I’ve had a pop at but realistically what a fucking season he had, more goal involvement than Jonny Williams 😳

Genuinely a bit perplexed why everyone seems to have gone a bit cold on Wakeling over the summer.

He was poor second half the season but he will be when half the time we're fucking about with him at LWB. Plus everyone was shit at some point around that time.

Shown promise first half of the season.

What Chalky said. I was the same but if Parsons or whoever had their first season like he had we would be over the moon.

I rate Wakeling highly. Last season was his first and a great return. Can only get better imo.

Player in playing shit under Jody Morris shock.

Form dipped certainly but think shite is a bit harsh.

Everyone’s form was shit last season. Looking forward to seeing this lot under a decent manager, assuming that’s what Flynn is.

yeah well said, I think we have to give the players a bit of a clean slate given last season's gaggle of inept coaches/managers.

Assuming no more in now.....

                                      O'Mahoney

                     Godwin-Malife    Ward      FBT
Hutton                                                                Uwakwe
                                Kinsella   McEachran
                                        Kemp
                                 Austin    Hepburn-Murphy

I think we may see Brewitt instead of Ward but that isn't a bad 11. Not sure on Ward know nothing about him.

That back 3 is 5 foot 10, 5 foot 10 and 6 foot. Would like some more height in there ideally

No way should Ward start

I'm reasonably happy with what we have for Saturday. Fully expect Garners team to be the same brand of tippy tappy youth football, so for Saturday we'll be alright.

I'd like a couple of big experienced lumps at either end of the pitch to be added before the end of the transfer window though. The big experienced horrible CB we've been wanting and a very different option up front, possibly even plan C or D.

Maybe it'll be Brewitt, but he may have already been training with us and kept under wraps? Notice they suddenly started posting training pics again.

Raw height isn't quite the measure though, FBT is exceptional in the air, and we've had a few 6 footers who couldn't head anything.

Tim Cahill was only 5’ 11

The great Italian defender Fabio Cannavaro was only 5'9

Charlie Drake was only 5’1

Those players were all a slight skill level above League 2

Although to make myself feel better I took a look at FGR title winning teams back 3 and they had 2 5 foot 10 defenders in UGM and JMT either side of 6 foot 3 Dan Sweeney who I wish we’d signed when he left FGR for Stevenage last season.

Admin replied to a tweet saying that Ward is 6’2.

Someone has got his height wildly wrong on the sites I was looking at then 😄

I have a feeling Khan will start today maybe over Kinsella

Possibly, be down to fitness I would think, I also wouldnt be surprised to see Minturn and Brewitt start at CB with FBT and Ward and Dokes on the bench.

That would shock me tbh they have been training since monday with us.

Soon see though

Even Ward?

I did think that when training pics were suddenly getting posted again.

Sorry the other 3 lads, not sure on Ward tbh

This,  can’t understand all the negativity. I for one (and it seems virtually the only one) am more than happy with what Flynn has done. We are streets ahead of where we were this time last season.  Give the lads a chance, pretty sure this is going to be an interesting season.  In Flynn I trust.

What even Charlie Drake ??, this division may be poor, but not that poor.

Well Brewitt over Ward is absolutely correct for me. Don't think we could put out a better starting 11 and looking at Colchester's line up I'm quietly confident. Obviously could turn out looking like a part!