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Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Whits on Monday, September 12, 2005, 11:37:00 Quote ‘GOBSMACKED’ Tom Heaton cannot believe the manager is bearing the brunt of supporters’ current frustration and feels it is the players who need to take responsibility for a disappointing sequence of results. The Manchester United youngster was shocked by the ‘stick’ being dished out to Andy King and feels it is unfair. There were calls from the crowd for the manager’s head on Saturday. It’s not the first time King has had to endure that but it was a ‘first’ for the young keeper. He said: “It was the first time really that I’d noticed it. “I was actually quite gobsmacked. “Everything we’ve been doing, for my money, the tactics and the coaching staff has been first class. “They’re getting us ready for the game but when we cross the white line as players we need to take the responsibility. It’s not the management. “It’s individual little mistakes, like myself in the Walsall match last week. “There’s little things where players need to take responsibility. “Andy King’s been absolutely first-class, his man-management, the whole shooting match has been top drawer. “I haven’t got a negative word to say. “It’s almost upsetting to hear. But I’m sure the way the manager is, he’ll take it on the chin and it’ll egg him on to get some results.” sounds like some of the players love him :o Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: yeo on Monday, September 12, 2005, 11:49:52 They should feel guilty as fuck because they are all useless journey men plodders intent only on picking up their wages .They have no pride,loyalty to the club or supporters and they smell. :x
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Spud on Monday, September 12, 2005, 12:15:53 And what are we going to do when all our loan players go back?, we will be seriously fucked then if we aint already!. :-))(
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: adje on Monday, September 12, 2005, 12:32:51 It always makes me chuckle when players claim"We're right behind the boss"-course they fucking are because a new manager probably wouldn't pick the useless twats!Thats what all the english players who are in the side say about Eriksson
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Spud on Monday, September 12, 2005, 12:41:26 Quote from: "adje" It always makes me chuckle when players claim"We're right behind the boss"-course they fucking are because a new manager probably wouldn't pick the useless twats!Thats what all the english players who are in the side say about Eriksson I agree with that! On another note i thought it was hilarious what Ifil said in the adver "If you can say you were totally outplayed by a good team, you hold your hands up. That hasn't been the case here and i don't think we've really played badly!" what game were you at Saturday then Jerel?. :? Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 14:13:31 Quote from: "Spuddy_STFC" And what are we going to do when all our loan players go back?, we will be seriously fucked then if we aint already!. :-))( This is the main thing I'm worried about. If King goes before the transfer window we'll be fucked. All our free loanees will go back and we will desperately need someone with contacts to get quality loanees like Heaton but he is only here because King knows Alex Ferguson. Then if Evans gets another injury or hasn't recovered we'll be left with Bulman in goal and no manager who can find suitable cover with no money. :? Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: DV on Monday, September 12, 2005, 15:36:55 Quote from: "Ben Wah Balls" Quote from: "Spuddy_STFC" And what are we going to do when all our loan players go back?, we will be seriously fucked then if we aint already!. :-))( This is the main thing I'm worried about. If King goes before the transfer window we'll be fucked. All our free loanees will go back and we will desperately need someone with contacts to get quality loanees like Heaton but he is only here because King knows Alex Ferguson. Then if Evans gets another injury or hasn't recovered we'll be left with Bulman in goal and no manager who can find suitable cover with no money. :? but surely having loan player after loan player is just, trying to polish a turd....I mean half our team arent even ours...to me that isnt right sadly we dont have much choice Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 15:44:04 So you'd rather we had Bulman in goal instead of Heaton then?
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Sippo on Monday, September 12, 2005, 16:03:59 But if a new manager came in he'd have different contacts...
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 16:05:29 Yeah none probably. :(
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Sippo on Monday, September 12, 2005, 16:06:55 I'd disagree. We can't keep a manager just the sake for a few contacts he knows...
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Piemonte on Monday, September 12, 2005, 16:09:29 Quote from: "DV85" Quote from: "Ben Wah Balls" Quote from: "Spuddy_STFC" And what are we going to do when all our loan players go back?, we will be seriously fucked then if we aint already!. :-))( This is the main thing I'm worried about. If King goes before the transfer window we'll be fucked. All our free loanees will go back and we will desperately need someone with contacts to get quality loanees like Heaton but he is only here because King knows Alex Ferguson. Then if Evans gets another injury or hasn't recovered we'll be left with Bulman in goal and no manager who can find suitable cover with no money. :? but surely having loan player after loan player is just, trying to polish a turd....I mean half our team arent even ours...to me that isnt right sadly we dont have much choice A fair point DV in some ways DV, but of our loan players the only one who's really looked any good is Heaton. Heath has looked ok in patches (not on the left wing) Collins is a defender who cant mark, McDermott hasnt and probably wont play, Gurney is well, just Gurney. We are also not the only club in the division to have loan players padding out the squad. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 17:30:09 You can't underestimate how important these loan players are though and especially when we have such a shoestring budget. We are sure to really miss things like this. You won't realise how much difference it makes until afterwards.
I just hope we get a manager who does have some contacts. I'm not expecting too though. :| Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: sonicyouth on Monday, September 12, 2005, 18:02:24 Why do you think King is the only manager with contacts?
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Mexicano Rojo on Monday, September 12, 2005, 18:05:53 ben i feel you are clutching at straws
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Kinky Tom on Monday, September 12, 2005, 18:06:00 But the loanees are already here, who's to say if we get rid of King they won't stay?
If we get rid, and get in a manager who turns it around and gets us playing the football this team should be capable of, then the loanees might be more inclined to stay, whereas they'd be less likely to stay at a sinking ship - which is what we are at the moment. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 18:24:00 If you read what I said I said I hope we get a manager with contacts.
King has loads because he played at the top level for years and knows so many ex players and managers. Very few managers have so many and none we are likely to get. Why would the loanees stay, they are only here 'cos King drove half way around the country to sign them and people like Ferguson and Terry McDermott did us a favour. I really doubt they'll just let us keep them. You're assuming a new manager would stop us from being a sinking ship, when they may well make things worse. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Dazzza on Monday, September 12, 2005, 18:48:07 Quote from: "Ben Wah Balls" This is the main thing I'm worried about. If King goes before the transfer window we'll be fucked. All our free loanees will go back and we will desperately need someone with contacts to get quality loanees like Heaton but he is only here because King knows Alex Ferguson. Then if Evans gets another injury or hasn't recovered we'll be left with Bulman in goal and no manager who can find suitable cover with no money. :? Come on chief that’s as likely as me playing waltzing Matilda on my Banjo string. What club is going to either loan or loan out a player on the basis that the manager remains in charge then demand the player be recalled when he’s eventually sacked? Just worth a mention, both Heaton and Heath where both rumoured and then officially announced as going out on loan long before we signed them. They would have just as likely signed for Colchester had they made an enquiry. Certainly not down to any special relationship between King and the Scotch Testicle more down to Carry on Carson and his links with Testicle through the nags. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Kinky Tom on Monday, September 12, 2005, 18:49:27 .... but they may make things better - I don't think we're on the brink of a Furguson like turn-around that will eventually see us crowned champions of Europe with King at the helm.
If a new manager does come in and things get better then the loanees we have will, let's face it, probably want to stay - none of them will be playing first team for their own clubs will they. I just think in terms of the long-term future of the club he must go - I've stood up fpr him in the past - you know that - but now really has to be time for a change. Bobby Williamson is available. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Dazzza on Monday, September 12, 2005, 18:56:17 On the subject of loan players it's a bit of a grey area in the league this season.
Quote In short, no player can transfer from one club to another during the 'closed periods': from September 1 to December 31; and from February 1 to the end of the season. This prohibition is intended to apply both to loans and to permanent transfers - although it doesn't apply to players who are genuinely free agents and not contracted to any club. The Premiership has chosen to implement this system very much within the spirit of the FIFA rules. Outside of transfer windows, the Premier League has forbidden any permanent transfers at all; and allows loans only of goalkeepers. And these only in situations that the Premier League board of directors considers to be genuinely 'exceptional'. The Football League though, has decided this season to allow 'emergency loans' of any player outside of transfer windows. Goalkeepers can be loaned at any time, with clubs also being allowed to loan outfield players from yesterday to November 24 this year and from February 8 to March 23, 2006. These emergency loans can be from any domestic club, including Premier League clubs, and can be of any length from 28 days up to 93 days in any season. Which if King does go should allow a new man to shuffle the pack so to speak. In addition what I hadn't realised is that during the transfer window it's still possible to sign players without a contract. Again if we are faced with a new manager that’s pretty much all he will be able to afford if at all. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 18:56:53 No that wasn't what I'm saying Dazzza, Heaton is on loan until Christmas. Man United won't recall him before then but they won't just extend the loan no matter what and he wouldn't be here in the first place anyway without King.
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Kinky Tom on Monday, September 12, 2005, 19:06:09 ....but they are already here, also who's to say they'll stay even if King does?
The fact of the matter is that the managers of all the clubs from which we have loanees will assess each player's immediate loan future given their progress, the team's progess, whether any other club comes in offering to pay more of their wages and most of all whether we even try to keep them - managers will be more likely though to allow players to stay where they are if that's where they are happy. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Spud on Monday, September 12, 2005, 19:09:07 Quote from: "Ben Wah Balls" No that wasn't what I'm saying Dazzza, Heaton is on loan until Christmas. Man United won't recall him before then but they won't just extend the loan no matter what and he wouldn't be here in the first place anyway without King. Yes he jumped at the chance to join us after hearing about Mr Kings great managerial capabilities. :roll: Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Dazzza on Monday, September 12, 2005, 19:10:11 Quote from: "Ben Wah Balls" No that wasn't what I'm saying Dazzza, Heaton is on loan until Christmas. Man United won't recall him before then but they won't just extend the loan no matter what and he wouldn't be here in the first place anyway without King. I fail to see how Andy King is a make or break factor as to the extension of Heaton’s loan contract or anybody else’s for that matter. Certainly it’s a factor I appreciate that but if the player is still benefiting from being out on loan in so much that he’s playing regular league football and gaining from the experience then it’s not going to make an iota’s difference who is in charge of the side. Both of the Utd loan players along with a couple of others King mentioned early pre-season but subsequently lost out on were marked out for loan long before we actually signed them. King is the reason they’re here but it goes no further than picking up the phone and making the call not because of ‘contacts’ or any special relationship with Ferguson. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Spud on Monday, September 12, 2005, 19:14:21 If we got rid of King i seriously cant see Ferguson answering the phone to a new manager and saying we want our 2 players back because you sacked my best mate Andy. :)
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 19:17:49 Fact is King travelled several hundred miles to watch them in a reserve game, most managers just don't bother to do this so they would have no idea who they were or whether they would be capable of doing a job for their team and that is why King signed them when loads of other managers would have loved to sign them if they'd any idea how good Heaton was but they don't know 'cos they've never watched him.
Compare this to a manager like John Gorman had no clue how to spot the players we needed, so he spent shitloads on players worse than what we already had. Be realistic, not all managers are capable of finding the right players, it is a rare skill and one of the most important parts of management. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Spud on Monday, September 12, 2005, 19:22:06 Yes King is a good scout but he obviously didnt bother scouting Cureton or Thorpe.
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: sonicyouth on Monday, September 12, 2005, 19:39:01 Quote from: "Ben Wah Balls" Fact is King travelled several hundred miles to watch them in a reserve game, most managers just don't bother to do this so they would have no idea who they were or whether they would be capable of doing a job for their team and that is why King signed them when loads of other managers would have loved to sign them if they'd any idea how good Heaton was but they don't know 'cos they've never watched him. Compare this to a manager like John Gorman had no clue how to spot the players we needed, so he spent shitloads on players worse than what we already had. Be realistic, not all managers are capable of finding the right players, it is a rare skill and one of the most important parts of management. Whits drives all over the country to watch Swindon, doesn't mean he should be manager. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Spud on Monday, September 12, 2005, 19:41:25 Quote from: "sonicyouth" Quote from: "Ben Wah Balls" Fact is King travelled several hundred miles to watch them in a reserve game, most managers just don't bother to do this so they would have no idea who they were or whether they would be capable of doing a job for their team and that is why King signed them when loads of other managers would have loved to sign them if they'd any idea how good Heaton was but they don't know 'cos they've never watched him. Compare this to a manager like John Gorman had no clue how to spot the players we needed, so he spent shitloads on players worse than what we already had. Be realistic, not all managers are capable of finding the right players, it is a rare skill and one of the most important parts of management. Whits drives all over the country to watch Swindon, doesn't mean he should be manager. :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Dazzza on Monday, September 12, 2005, 19:52:03 A hell of a lot of managers do actually make the pilgrimage to watch targets during reserve games the other side of the country during the week.
Caught a fair bit of Premiership and non-league games a few years back and I was surprised just quite how so many managers from across the league do put in an appearance. That’s not to take anything away from King’s ability to identify a decent player when he sees one but he’s far from unique when it comes to travelling and putting in the hours on the road. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 20:10:27 But does whits watch Man United reserves.
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: sonicyouth on Monday, September 12, 2005, 20:11:10 You only have to order the Man Utd channel to see the reserve games, not difficult Ben.
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: DV on Monday, September 12, 2005, 20:21:38 In a way id rather have Bulham than Heaton, because Bulman is actually our player....but Heaton is so much better, I dont mind one or two loan players filling some gaps, but we could field over half a team
So Andy King can travel and get players to come here, thats great let him continue to do so....that doesnt make him a manager just a good scout and salesman. Let King get the players, let someone else pick the formation simple really. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 20:21:39 Yeah I'm sure that's all you need to do, just pick out the ideal new signing just by watching a game on tv. :wall:
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: sonicyouth on Monday, September 12, 2005, 20:23:57 How's it different to watching the game live? You still get to see the players.
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, September 12, 2005, 20:40:59 Totally different, I was hoping you were joking. If you could watch a particular player on tv and assess them as well as you could by going to the game, most managers and scouts wouldn't go to half as many games.
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: sonicyouth on Monday, September 12, 2005, 20:45:06 Not every game is on telly though.
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Whits on Monday, September 12, 2005, 21:40:38 i don't like the way i'm getting dragged into this. :?
i can't manage my bank account never mind a football team :| Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Whits on Monday, September 12, 2005, 21:49:42 oh and i'd rather kiss my own ass than drive 400 miles for a reserve game :D
Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, September 12, 2005, 21:57:52 Quote from: "Whits" oh and i'd rather kiss my own ass than drive 400 miles for a reserve game :D At least you wouldn't rather fuck your own sister. Title: Heaton shocked by King criticism Post by: Whits on Monday, September 12, 2005, 22:06:50 thats a very wrong thought reg :shock:
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