Thetownend.com

King must go. Generally I've always been supportive of King and have defended him against his detractors but I simply cannot think of a single plausible reason for him to stay. We've played 9 games and have only won 2 so far, against two sides who are equally as bad as us, we've failed to score away from home despite having five strikers available to us, our attendances are already falling and took another dive today. Simply put, on our current run of form it'd take a miracle for us to stay up.

After Walsall and Tranmere I could find consolement in the fact that it's plainly obvious that 4-5-1 doesn't work and once we switch back to 4-4-2, our form will pick up and we'll be alright. Today's performance was worse than Tranmere and Walsall, there was simply no quality, no creativity, no marking, poor defending, lack of commitment and we didn't even deserve to score.

King's team today was simply bizarre, deciding to switch back to a 4-4-2 system he decided to drop one of our two natural wingers who was also our best player against Walsall just to keep trio of Stef, Whalley and Pook in the team. Not only that but he selected Cureton - who has done NOTHING in the past few weeks - over Thorpe, who scored a hat-trick for the reserves. Any other manager would have kept Shakes in the team and put Thorpe in ahead of Cureton and if anyone can explain why King chose that team today I'd love to know.

I get the distinct impression that King is losing the plot, constant changing of formations, arguments with fans, bringing back ex-players on loan when we don't really need them and simply confusing team selections all leads me to question whether he even knows what he's doing anymore, or if he's just making it up as he goes along. How are we going to improve when everything our manager does is totally illogical?

The scoreline today does not reflect the game whatsoever, after conceding yet another goal in the first minute we could have gone on to concede two more in the first ten minutes, thankfully Heaton came to our rescue once again. A scoreline of 3-0 or 4-0 would not have been harsh on us whatsoever.

However, we're fucked. King won't step down because he knows he won't find another job and our board won't sack him because we simply don't really have one, there's simply not enough staff to run the football club on a day-to-day basis, let alone run it as a football club that should be moving forward. Currently, they seem more concerned with making people sit down than trying to move the club forward. Basically we're stuck with King, he should walk but he knows that he won't be sacked and if he does leave he won't get another managerial position, he's got us by the bollocks.

As it stands we look like relegation fodder, if we get relegated then this club will cease to exist.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

sonic youth wrote

 

   just last week......you've changed your tune.

Totally agree Sonic

We cant afford to keep in him in footballing terms

We cant afford to get rid of him in money terms

Sadly, its Money over Football these days

Andy King is not judged on results

very well put agree with all your points. its a desperate situation our club is crumbling and i think a total overhaul is necessary to save it. the board and king must all go. sandy gray doesnt have a clue about football shes an accountant and a crap one at that. even my mate at uni knows how to calculate vat and hes only been training for 2 weeks!

That was before seeing the shambles of today though. I was being blindly optimistic thinking that we'd actually win if we played 4-4-2 at home.

I was totally wrong. We're in a relegation struggle now.

totally agree with everything you just wrote sonic. today was complete crap. king should be on his way out, but like you said, he wont quit & the board wont sack him. he's here until we're bankrupt  :cry:

well im going to say that i don't king think king should go. don't just have a groan and moan at me, had enough of that in the town end today.

 Right, which has been obvious from the pre season.

 The question is though,  is it for the best to keep King at the helm, who at least has some experience of this sort of thing.....or should it be entrusted to a rookie like Reeeeeeves, who is the only viable option.

If King goes, Reeves will be in - and looks whats happened to City since Tinnion.

(But obviously there is little chance of him going)

yep, ive always said reeves is the next swindon manager. cheap, easy option.

He can't do any worse can he?

gray doesnt run the club though, she is just dimandis' spokes person  :x



give woan & onuora the job. they both seem to know what they're doing. probably take training most days anyway. king just does the tactics (or lack of them). they won the league & cup with the youths last year too.

Agree with all of that Sonic. All of my pre-season optimism has now evaporated :(

Reeves would do a much better job than Kingy EASY.

Honestly, I'm at the point where I dont care who the fuck we get in.

Even Reeves seems a huge improvement at the moment

Woan has a court appearance pending....and Iffy has even less experience than Reeeeves on the management side.

  Some years back around the time of Machin etc, I said that Reeeeeves was management material......unfortunately he still got the time off because of his leg, and so probably isn't ready  just yet.

You go to the county ground to see football, not crap. They need to be trying and be having this thought in their head that they must get into the championship.

With Reeves we are far more liekly to get relegated, pretty much certain, same with iffy or woan or any other likely replacements.

Why? Do you have the ability to see into the future?

That argument simply doesn't work.

I'd like to see Reeves in charge, I honestly feel he'd do a decent job.

Straight to the point....

Where the fuck are we going to end up with King in charge? top half!!?!!?!?

Fuck that, with Andy King as manager we will get relegated

 I don't think that's neceassarily the case,  with King staying  it will be a season long uphill battle...which it will be for any new boy.

I don't think he's do an at all decent job, he has no real experience few contacts has shown no reason why he would make a good manager and he's got a broken leg.

I think he'd be completely out of his depth and a move like that would fuck us up competely, probably spelling the end of the club.

I would put money on us finishing bottom.

Reeves is a nice bloke, for his own sake I really hope he doesn't get the job 'cos I expect he'll do as well as Brian Tinnon.

Again, how much further up from bottom are we going to finish with King in charge?

That's even more speculative than me saying he'd make a decent manager, you're stating opinion as fact :/

Why do you want King to stay? What has he done so far this season to prove that he's not totally lost the plot? When has he made good decisions which have proved beneficial to our performances? Would you be satisified if we escaped relegation by one point? Would you still insist that King is a good manager if we narrowly avoided relegation?

It's no use living on past glories, the playoffs were two years ago now and there's very few players left at the club who were here at the time, we need to look forward and that starts with a new manager to replace King.

BBW i thought i was the only one. Good posting.

DV85, seems like every year theres a big King Out moment, this one being the largest since the one where he was actually kicked out.  In the end, it usually works out alright, can you remember a season under King where we haven't had a bad patch? Did this season turn out better than the seasons before King was in charge? Has King spent any money to do this?

the photo caption on the report on the rivals site just about sums up kings attitute & arrogance at the moment

http://swindontown.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=1019&p=2&stid=8391275

i have put up with him til now, but the sooner he goes, the better. even you must be starting to turn against him a little bit BWB?

The time is long over due. He has had FIVE years, other FL managers would kill for that amount of time. Tony Thorpe has spoke out against his crazy tactics and training regime, yet it gets swept under the carpet.

We have a very decent team with alot of expierence and some good quality and these sort of preformances are terrible and will result in relegation.

King would only take a minimal fee to get rid, but as already mentioned Gray and the rest of the idiots are more intrested in getting people sat down (although not too much as they would put the prices down and we wouldnt' have these pathetic crowds)

This club is fast becoming a joke and we had only 500 more than oxford who played Rushden.

I love this club to death but i dont think i can stomach games anymore.

It'll be a steep hill then, as straight as that line --->>> l

and I bet those 500 extra were made up by the Southend fans

Proabably a lot further dv85, have we finished bottom with king in charge yet? No but we may well of if say King had been sacked back in 2002/2003. Thank fuck he wasn't, at least we got to see some success.

And I'm not stating opinion as fact. He has no real experience - that's a fact, broken leg - fact, few contacts, fact etc.

If you think changing the manager will save us, I'll believe it when I see it and I'm not expecting too. Kill us more likely.

Spot on. Rushden hardly take thousands

To be honest, Oxford are proberley a bigger club than us thats how pathetic we are now. They have their own stadium for a start

We'll find out who is the better team next season in the local derby

will be great next year, swindon, city, rovers, oxford, wycombe, yeovil, cheltenham & northampton all in the same league

I personally don't see reeves as a manager.If we did get a new manager we would need  an alot more experienced one as all the moaners would have high expectations as usual.We can't even afford to lose andy king.I still believe he is really not to blame for the bad performances.I mean look at a few seasons ago,We had mooney and parkin who made a great partnership and we had two class midfielders Igoe and Howard who were in their prime.We won games because they had fight and go in them.Andy king HAS NOT changed but the squad has.We don't have many WOW players do we?we have players who are capable of it though.I think people are expecting way too much.We are quite a poor club and our squad has changed alot,we no longer have sam parkin a player that was an incredible peice of what we had and we no longer have him.We have alot of new players and we lost alot of players last season.They are probably still getting used to playing together and king is trying out different things like a manager should do.I think we need to start getting behind the team more and stop having high expectations.
Now please don't hate me aswell :(

I can't remember a season where we've been so bad, except for that really bad patch in 02/03 - a time when I was staunchly pro-King.

We simply can't paper over the cracks when the future of the football club is at stake, I'm not being a fickle twat about any of this but I feel that it would be in the best interest of the club if King went.

Replacing a manager is ALWAYS a gamble but right now it seems worth it.

The argument about money is irrelevent, King's had the budget for transfer fees and wages but he's bringing players to the club then not using them correctly. Anyone see the size of our squad compared to Southend's?

been saying it for ages now we need to get rid of king before we end up being relegated cant you king lovers see that!!??? :(  :|

he should have done that in pre-season. and he should know that michael pook isn't a right winger.

i think you made a good point though about the players not having any 'fight' in them. is this down to the fact we have so many loan players in the squad at the moment who dont really give a crap about the club? or is it just because king isn't motivating them enough? discuss...

Yes I did'nt think about that,could be a possibility actually.

I get the impression that attitude filters down from the manager, whenever I see King before games (which is pretty much every week) he really doesn't seem to give a toss about anything, he just sits around or practices his chipping on the pitch.

You can't read much into that but it's the impression I've been left with, he's a very arrogant man.

Sonic the only reason we have a decent size squad is because so many of them we are paying next to nothing.

McDermott, Heath, Heaton, Gurney, Collins, Pook, none of those are on much at all, most of them are having their wages paid by other clubs.

King has been operating with two arms tied behind his back and any new manager will have to do the same. In my opinion we would need an exceptional manager to finish top half. I can't see this board finding one.

Someone convince me. I also can't see Reeves being one, someone convince me.

we dont have any fight, because none of the players give a flying fuck

Win, Lose or Draw they still get paid

I'm not talking about the wages, but how often has King used depth and a small squad as an excuse? We've got five strikers yet he plays with one up front. We've got cover in pretty much every position, quite comfortably in fact. None of the players who have stepped in to replace Evans, Jenkins, Mglioranzi etc have disappointed, all have looked capable - especially Pook and Heaton.

Are you saying King is an exceptional manager? I don't think Reeves will be anywhere near exceptional, I just believe he can do a job for us in the short term. I also feel it'd unite the fans again, something that hasn't existed for fucking years now.

 But that's like crying wolf.....if you've been saying it for ages, because its not happened.

 What has happened is that King has been forced to largely dismantle a mid table team, because of budget cuts, and attempt to replace them with players  on less money.....it didn't take a rocket scientist to work out that this was always  going to lead to a difficult season, which is what we've got.

 I tend towards the leave King to attempt to keep us up....even though I would very much prefer a decent new boss.....but a sthings stand we ent going to get one.

The key bit there is "this board" finding one, which you are probably right about as they are all such gimps.

But there are plenty of other managers that have done well on a similar budget over the last few years. I'm sure mike newell didnt have a lot to spend last year, but luton still went up. and the season before that neale cooper did well at hartlepool with no money. even southend today are doing well with a small squad.

but then the opposite can also happen & we could get relegated. i think its a chance most fans are willing to take at the moment though because we're so fed up with king. 5 years is more than enough, you've had your chance now bugger off!

Ben you have nothing postive to say about King and i dont think even you now have confidence in him. All you can say is "Keep King we wont be sacked". With the players here, and yes he brought them here blah blah, their expierence and quality should make us a better team than we currently are. Bar 5 or 6 every manager has to work a incredibly tight budget and yes King has made one or two good signings but theres not point having them if he will do nothing with them.

We were saved from relegation THAT season but Rovers results, that is a fact. Towards the end of our play off season with King we had a very, very poor run and it was the 3-3 draw we tagged back against Vale that got us in there in the end.

i feel at least reeves or woan as manager would play wingers on the wings and thats a start.  There would also be more desire, reeves loves this club and king seems like he couldnt give toss at the moment, playing players all over the place and getting loans of players we dont even need. kings a clown.

My main moans about King are his team selection policies, and apparently his arrogance, which I have not experienced personally.

However, arrogance is not unknown among managers, and team selection is a matter of opinion, not fact. The forum postings tell us that all our players, except perhaps Heaton and Fallon this season, have both critics and supporters who feel that their choice would make the difference, perhaps. Therefore, why should we expect our particular choice to coincide with King's?
For example, I prefer 4-4-2 at all times, home and away, and I would  play  for several games unchanged as follows:

Heaton, Gurney, Collins, O'Hanlon when fit or Ifil, Smith, Shakes, Pook, Migs, Nicolau, Fallon, Roberts.

But there are several more good choices in my view whichI I could accept:

eg  Heaton, Jenkins, Comyn Platt, O'Hanlon, Nicho, Heath, Whalley, Pook/Migs, Roberts, Fallon, Thorpe.

And so on. Some of us comment that we have a good set of players, others say most of them are cr*p, but don't agree on which ones.

Why am I saying all this? Perhaps because I  have cooled down after watching the awful first half today, trying to keep a sense of perspective. Perhaps our expectations are too high. Remember the enjoyment of Forest and Yeovil, it is practically a new team and still bedding down.

We are stuck with King, we would do better to try to influence him to improve his obviously bad decisions, like Pook on the wing today ( that's only my view again!), and refrain from King Out. And I criticise him as much as most.
However, the time to sack managers is close season, not after a few games. Most of us approved of most of his transfer  dealings I believe, I did not call for his sacking then, and I know his record here, so having bought a season ticket, what is the point of a manager change even if it is possible? Very fickle.  I think that sackings in mid-season is bad for the game. I thought that King would do well to keep us up, and I haven't given up that hope.

While I agree with sonic youth's sentiments, I can take it, because I've got to........                



 :old:

gray doesnt run the club though, she is just dimandis' spokes person  :x


nonsense! shes the club's chief executive !!!!

A very sensible and well-reasoned post normy, then again I'd expect no less from you.

There's no good time to sack a manager, but the best time is around Easter - if you're safe by then you'll know it and it gives a new manager chance to judge the current squad of players in competitive football to suss out the weaknesses and strengths, then how to address those weaknesses accordingly.

However, when you're looking down the barrel of a loaded gun you don't have the luxury of waiting and picking the best time to do something. Admittedly, King should perhaps be given a little while longer to get it right but he's had five years.

I reckon we need to get in someone who's never been a manager before, otherwise we'll be left to choose from the same sort of dross we already have.  Experienced managers at our level who are unemployed are generally crap, and would make the same mistakes as King, an untried rookie would have a completely new approach.

Just a point about Northampton too, they are calling for CC's head apparently according to my mates.  He's spent loads there and has done bugger all - I know none have you have mentioned him, but I bet some are thinking of him.

Just a point about the pitch too, when we got into the play-offs we were voted to have the second best pitch in the division.

Basically though all my above thoughts have sod all to do with it, King must go, but he won't. :evil:

Normy, I understand what your saying about formation. There is no correct choice, just because I think of a formation doesnt mean its right.

However when the forum does indeed pick their formations before the match, we dont have players needlessly playing out of position.

I've picked Heath at left wing once or twice, because after Nicolau who has been injured we have no left winger. However, none of have been stupid enough to suggest dropping a right in winger in Shakes and then playing Pook who is a central midfielder on the right.

I dont think its right to play players out of position, some times you dont have a choice but today was clearly a example of King playing players out of position, for no real reason what so ever.

The club doesn't have a chief exec anymore, the role is split between Sandy Gray, Linda Birrell, Andy King, Bob Holt and possibly James Wills.

How long before your Chief Exec as well Sonic :roll:

Being detained at her majesty's pleasure means I don't get to see the games, there appear to be major problems (apologies on stating the obvious):

 :( The manager has stated that he sees the game as players having to win battles against their oponents, hence Pook is put on the right wing.  In the book of Clough (his autobiography), you play your own game, you don't worry about the opposition much.  Without a settled team, and without a settled system, you are at a disadvantage (didn't we win the League cup with a settled team, and settled system).  The book of Clough also states you put a spine in your team (goalie, center half, central midfield, and center forward, you don't change it unless you have to, our spine is short of Seano, and Pook was out on the freakin' right wing).  If you check out the Rothmans (Sky) handbook, you will notice, the more successful sides play basically the same side week in week out, barring injuries of course.

 :( The players are not doing the basics, marking, passing, shooting.  This could arise from not being settled, not being comfortable (too stressed before and during the game), lack of confidence, lack of fitness, or combinations thereof.  The book of Clough states that players must be relaxed and have no worries before games.  In short, the Swindon players are not properly prepared to play.  Conceding early goals, at home, should not happen.  The first fithteen minutes should be played conservatively, especially against decent opposition, just to suss 'em out.  At half time, haveing figured out weaknesses, instruct how to exploit them.

 :( The manager alienates fans.  The fans are the customers.  The manager should be the one with a good rapport with the fans, the players less so.  The players job is to play to the best of their ability, and not pontificate.  "It's my way or the highway," is not the basis for a successful customer relationship.


 :( The manager singles out players for criticism.  I cannot remember Cloughie ever doing that.  This is an absolute no-no.  How are players going to be comfortable, and relaxed, for the next game if they are slagged off immediately after the finish of the previous game (see above).  Surely, players know themselves if they have made mistakes, they are not children.  Not only does it make the players uncomfortable, it makes the fans uncomfortable.

 :( Shot shy, and over elaborating, smacks of lack of confidence, or a bollocking for a miss.  The team are too afraid to make mistakes, so they make them.  The team has to take collective responsibility, and support eachother.  Lou Macari was very clear on that, the team won, lost or drew, entirely as a team.  No surprise given his Celtic and Manchester Utd. pedigree.


Overall, we are back in the death spiral again, the fans are getting apathetic, angry, the players aren't playing well, and the manager is chopping and changing the team too much.  This is not helped by having Seano out.  If the team amange to win again confidence will rise, the players may take charge.  Does Tony Thorpe, or Jamie Cureton, or Gareth Whalley need a coaching course, heck no, they've all recently (not in the Seventies) played hundreds of games, most at a higher level and know the game inside out.

Conclusion, it is time for a change.  Given that Thorpe has apparently protested the most, and probably cares the most, include him in the interviews for manager/player manager.  Quite frankly, I am tired of hearing the same old story, especially as totally different sets of players have ended up playing in the same way, with the same discussion from the fans, season after season.  Reeves, and Iffy, sound articulate and intelligent, Woany's under a cloud, unfortunately.  It is time for a cahnge, there is no need to go outside, because the one's inside have the most at stake to turn it around.

 Originally it was to be split between King, Mike Sullivan and Sandy Gray.

 Then Gray started to seem to be the sole occupant of the role....hence why she appeared in the team photo.....even though an announcement had never been made to my knowledge.

 Getting back Devlin....would be a good move.

So, in conclusion to Crozzers acurate rant...

Lets all chip in and buy Andy King that Clough book for xmas, if he is still here!!

I don't know for sure, but based on previous comments from King, he thinks that the game is about winning the personal battles against their opponents.  Possibly, he wanted to snuff out the threat of a particular Southend player, with a ball winning Swindon midfielder.  Unfortunately, this approach upsets your own team playmost of the time.

Dead right DV85, and illogical decisions like this frustrates the hell out of me, and those I sit with in Nationwide.

Why don't we all buy one (is it hard-back?) and chuck them at his feet? :twisted:  :wink:

 :shock:

You're allowed to use the net though? Or am I being daft?

Good points about Clough though.



Apologies, I got mixed up. That's pretty much all of the people who work at the club mind.

I was under the impression that Bob Holt was bought in as acting chief executive but stepped down due to the fact he has his own business (or another of Diamandis') to run on the I.O.W. Instead of giving the role to one person, the responsibility was split between a number of people to cut cost and presumably blame.

As a result, Gray's ended up being the media spokesperson due to the fact Bob Holt is never around, King makes a fool of himself often enough and Sullivan is only commercial manager.

But Gray is an absolute disaster as a media spokesperson having not one shred of credibility......

......even Ed Hadwin says that the runnning of the club is shambolic, and for the local hack to be so critical it must be bad.

I hate the fact that we have King as a manager purely for all the arguments it causes!

I really don't know what the best solution is. I can't see how we could do better with anyone else, but I am fed up of this whole thing! :evil:

Actually, I am currently overseas.  I have seen bits of games on Sky sports.  I recorded the entire Notts County F.A. cup replay game, but couldn't bear to watch it until a few weeks ago.   I am not surprised that a bad performance happened today, after 4:5:1 twice, and not playing Shakes (4:4:2 screams out for wingers, and supporting full back play).  Seano being out is also heck of a blow.   The game against Wycombe was ludicrous.  The old Div IV used to be full of knackers, but that just isn't the case anymore, there isn't much to choose between DiV I and Div II, especially with all the foreign players, and smaller squads with less money.  I think that Swansea made that clear today.

Gray's been forced into a role she's not got the personality/skills for, to criticise her for that is harsh but it's true, she really shouldn't be the head spokesperson for a football club.

Hadwin's right about something for once.

Devlin would sort it out!

Bring back Devlin!  :D

 I always thought and posted it, that Devlin was doing the job on the basis that he'd get a good cut of the potential profits from Shaw Tip, rather than a fat salary....and once it failed he'd be off which was how it proved.

 I just don't think we have the money to employ someone like him....unless he has no better options.

Totally agree. Even I was a kingy fan but I think he should do the honourable thing and walk before it gets heated.

He wont get a job anywhere else so he's not going to leave which is a fucking shame. :evil:

This is why i think Reeves becoming manager would be a positive step. The fans love him, so he would have our backing from the off. The players know, and respect him, so he would have their backing. This would surely eradicate the current bad feeling thats been wafting around the County Ground for the last year or so and give the team and the fans a lift.

I'm not saying that Reeves would be a long-term success, but he could do a job in the short term imo. Whatever, its got to be better than whats happening at the moment......

i've tried to keep away from the kingy out chants. i've tried to remain positive about this season, i've been telling myself that it'll be ok. but i just cant see that anymore. we are going to struggle this season, and i really dont think king is the best man to lead us through this struggle. when was the last time he named an unchanged squad? even if injury has forced his hand, the choices he has made have been very very poor. you play to your strengths, ane of which is not playing players out of their best positions. king just doesnt seem to notice, or care, that certain players play better in their nromal positions.


i think king needs to leave, and tge board need to look for people who are willing to sink funds into this club, not a dwarf fish-arse-tight "chairman" we've got now, who doesnt seem to give a flying shit.

i love this club, always have done, always will do. but the way things are going, there wont be a club in 2 or 3 years. and that makes me livid.

And the longer Kings in charge the lower the crowds are going to get cos i cant see us getting anything from Donny or Bournemouth!?. :|

That's not entirely true dv85. For example you suggested Ifil would make a good winger. http://thetownend.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5190

Now this may be true, but there is no doubt at all if King actually played him there he would get hugely slated for it. He has no experience of playing there. Most of the players King has played out of position have had experience in that position, even Van der Linden started off as a striker.

The people who're saying a new manager would unite the fans, you might think that but it wouldn't at all unless they were very successful which is extremely unlikely.

I thought when we sacked McMahon and brought in Jimmy Quinn, great that's the end of that miserable cloud that had been hanging over the club, the fans will be united now, Quinn's the man to take us forward but it was a disaster. Things got worse, far worse . The fans were far less united and the atmosphere got worse and the football we played got far worse, unbearable to watch, far worse than anything we're playing now. This wasn't all Quinn's fault, although in my opinion he was a pretty poor manager, as he had almost as little to work with as King but what had seemed to be a real positive step turned out to be fucking awful.

Another thing why the fuck would we really want Calderwood as manager, he's spent the money at Northampton they're pissed off with him. As a player he was awesome but given his lack of success when he's had a fair bit of money how shit is he likely to be with fuck all.

Excellent post from Normy btw, spot on.

Even having missed all the fun and games but as much as it pains me to say it I don't think it's the right time for King to get the bullet.

Invariably we reach this point every season, typically it usually gets worse than it looks at present.  It’s almost become a King trademark that he needs a kick up the arse before things improve and to be fair on past form they usually improve quite dramatically.

I do have to agree with a lot of posts that we do tend to suffer when the manager chops and changes his side every other week. With such a small deck King shuffles his cards around like Daniels and without the steady calming influence of an experienced assistant Magee by his side he seems to be coming out the joker rather than Top Trumps (like what I did there?).

There does appear to be a serious lack of organisation from the top down and I don’t think things can really improve until there is a settled infrastructure back in place at the club.  Onura’s piece in the Adver this week hinted just how thin things are on the ground.  Temporary acting manager, assistant manager, reserve team manager, youth development officer and first and youth team coaches rolled into one.  

If you take a look at say Tranmere Rovers and compare their backroom and club staff it makes us look as organised as a Sunday league pub side.

http://www.tranmererovers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/WhosWhoDetail/0,,10365~122856,00.html

We have one ‘active’ director and unofficial Chief Exec in Sandy Gray who has no football experience and background and to be fair is clearly not suited to a public facing role.  Her only qualification to sit on the board appears to be a close relationship with Mike Diamandis whom she is a director of several of his ‘companies’.

There are plenty of managers out there who on the face of the playing squad alone would grasp the manager’s job at Swindon Town with both hands.  I’d go as far as to say there are managers of a far better calibre than King who would take the job on the basis of the squad and limited resources available.  But I really think at present it’s a waste of time until things improve behind the scenes.  Short term improvement would be wasted and simply end in frustration and there just doesn’t seem to be the scope for anyone to build on anything the way things are at present.

King in the short term does give a stability of sorts even if it is a little unstable at times at least he ensures we shouldn't dip into relegation this season.  I even think he'll have it turned round by Christmas and we'll be sitting pretty in 13th and wondering what all the fuss was about.

As they say better the joker you know.

Very much so Dazzza! 8)

"better the joker you know" - very appropriate dazza!
 Sinatra played a comedian in the 1957 movie " The joker is wild ". No further comment!

King has lost the plot. When I heard he was reverting to 442 having played the bizarre 541 I felt a bit of potimism. However he spent all Friday night thinking how can I piss off the fans by fucking up a simple formation - I'll play three central midfielders.

Was this some kind of sick joke? My Granny knows nothing about football but I'd bet she would find out where the players play and play them in thier right positions.

I'd be happy for an internal appointment - at the moment our coaching staff have to go along with King. No one else in the stadium yesterday would have put Pook on the wing and very few would have started Cureton - King realised he had fucked up by making the changes at half time - how couldn't he see this at the beginning?

I know Woan, Reeves and Iffy don't have the contacts but they do have brains, common sense and the ability not to divide a dwindling support. I've never said it before but KING OUT.

Im afraid Kings lost my support now.

Leave now.

well we are not even playing our strongest team at the moment, so sort that out and it will be a fucking start. It's crying out to me that king doesnt even know his best team under the cicumstances.

I would drop Gurney, collins whalley and cureton  they just havent done it (although who has)  no one seems to be motivated. We have the squad to do well in this league but no one seems to really believe it out there.

i wouldnt mind seeing some youngsters come in to see what they can offer
(platt, wells, holgate) give em a go maybe, they should be hungry.

Difference is I wouldnt all of a sudden start Ifil at right wing and drop Shakes and play Pook left back, Jack Smith in goal and Tom Heaton up front.

Apart from crossing he has the ability to play on the wing I think, try it out in training or in the reserves. Not staright into the first team ala Pook on the wings

Gary Megson has offered up his resignation. he knows he's fucked up, and has said if the board want a change, he's happy to go.


why the fuck cant king do the same? fair enough if the fans are behind the manager to pull through and start getting results, but almost every fan i've spoken to, and nearly every post on here, wants him out. a divided football club is not a happy one.

King won't walk because he's such an arrogant cunt.

i reckon because of his gout/arthritis/broken ankle, he's unfit for the managerial position. cya later kingy  :mrgreen:


i fucking wish

Like king said at the end of his interview he is not going anywhere :P with or without gout too.

Reeeeeeeves might have a broken leg-but King's got gout and that never heals!

Because he wont get a fucking job anywhere else!.

Fuck off Gurney-I dont want you,we dont need you.Get Jenks back in for fucks sake

im still a king in man btw, even tohugh i do think he does cock it up sometimes.

main problem is and always will be is that swindon will have to pay him off to get rid of him and in the eyes of swindon town as a business it will be a waste of money at this point.

the cost of getting rid of King would be neglible, one of Devlin's final acts as chief exec was negotiating a rolling contract with King, so that if neccesary we wouldn't have to give King a large pay-off if he was sacked.

well, if that is true, then fair enough.

but now moving on a tad...who would people think we could get in realistically that would def do better?

Alan reeves in my opinion def would not, might do a job for this season, maybe... but problem is for him would be having contacts to get new players in, which is something we all know king is good at. be nice if we could have a change of management and keep king to do some transfers for us!

Burying your head in the sand is not a reason to keep that half witted bowl head.

Does the fact he is on a rolling contract not mean, he always has 12 months. So no matter when we get rid of him, he will still have 12 months to run, therefore we will always have to pay him a years worth of wages if we sack him, which we wont.....not even if we get relegated

no, I think a rolling contract means we can sack him at any point without paying up the remainder of his contract. Presumably there will be some cost because King wouldn't have agreed to it otherwise.

It wasn't one of Devlin's last acts, he's been on a rolling contract since  October 2003.

...and he left the following summer, did he not?

What so he did nothing for 9 months.  :jaw1:

Clearly.

he won't go because he needs money to provide for his family, just like a normal bloke. he doesn't earn, and never has earned, enough to allow him to leave. he's not an idiot.


Adje, i agree re: Gurney. That bloke pisses me off something chronic.

I recall an interview with Mark Devlin around the time King's contract was expiring, which I believe was around Nov/Dec 2003.

Devlin spoke initially about King getting a full time scout and possibly a 2nd on a part time basis and his contract.

He mentioned the rolling contract but he also stated that there would be a clause inserted into any contract that allowed the board a cheap release option.

I doubt that it was ever put into place much like the scout it was more than likely hot air.

my new king song,

andy king ooooh laaa laaa. andy king is fuckin ming, like takin it up the ass. where for art thou andy? up someone's ass. up he fukin ass! up the fukin ass! shove that fukin crutch up ur ass dooo da dooo da shove the fukin crutch up ur ass dooo da doo da day

I cant see it catching on.

:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

are you drummer boy in disguise?

The announcement was made, albeit somewhat quietly at the AGM, it's just it was overshadowed by Diamandis' astonishing rant at the Trust, in the guise of a letter supposedly from SSW. I think it was also confirmed in the first programme of the season as well, but she is definitely "official" Chief Exec - as others have pointed out though, it really matters very little who formally holds the title as it is still Mike Diamandis running the club, insofar as anyone is actually running the club at the moment.

What is Diamandis' interest?

Clearly there is an undeniable link, aside from the fact he turns up at every point both Mark Devlin and now Sandy Gray have or still do occupy seats on the board of several of his other companies.

Clearly he can see green at the end of the tunnel but with the Stadium development but what eludes me is how he personally would actually legitimately cash in on any profits.

Diamandis is the Wills' family's adviser - what financial arrangement they may have made with him in regards to the stadium redevelopment (or indeed any other means he manages to recoup some of the cash they've invested over the years) is something that I would guess only he and they would know. And FWIW, personally I'd say the Wills family are more than entitled to recoup some of the money they've invested which is all that has kept the club afloat for years. Whether they're going the right way about it with the current regime is, of course, another matter.

I cant make my mind up if he should go or stay, its a gamble that I'm not sure will come off if he goes, but then we are pretty shite right now with him . :?

If we dont win in the next couple of games i'll be joining the K.O.B. and in all honesty i think he'll get sacked.

He cant be paid any more than £100k a year (guess) and if hes got a 12 month rolling contract, my understanding is that we just have to compensate him with 12 months pay, regardless of when he goes.

Faced with 3,000 crowds or keeping king, the board will get some money off SSW and sack him. As for a replacement, fuck knows. I really hope its not Reeves/Iffy/ Woan as I'm far from convinced that any of those 3 will do a better job. Personally I'd want someone with experience, even if their track record is far from perfect.

I beleive a fresh face will do the club, fans and players a world of good. It'll give the fans a lift, and players will have to start fighting for a place to impress a new manager. I really don't think a new face can do any worse IMO.

Could an Andy King apologist please outline the disadvantages of having a new man in charge.If there are more than one(and I cant think what that one would be) I would be very surprised

I must admit I'm pretty shocked reading the Adver interview with King today, which I presume has been lifted as usual from the post match interview on Saturday.

I can’t be arsed to listen to the full audio on the BBC site, but did he really come across quite so defeated and broken as he did in the article?

I didn’t think he’d go but a few comments there run a lot deeper than he’s ever mentioned before in circumstances I’d say where a lot worse than the one we are all in at the moment.

I feel a bit sorry for him reading that.  He’s an alright chap having met him but can play the tosser a little to easily at times and that usually comes across post match all to often.  Easy to see why he gets up peoples noses as a manager and person.

Personally FWIW I didn’t really think he’d go for a while yet even if results have been ropey however I have herd a few rumours, some more reliable than others, but nothing close to concrete that the board are getting increasingly fidgety and have held ‘informal discussions’ regarding his future.  

I’m begining to think it’s coming down to Bournemouth this weekend.   A loss and he’s gone or will be very close to getting the boot from a twitchy board

Think he’s going to pull a draw out of the hat mind.  He usually pulls something out when he’s under pressure (ask his wife) and eventually turns it around and I can see this being another one of those games.  The law of averages means that if he carries on shuffling formations and players around this week or very soon he should come up with something that resembles some sort of common sense.

For the record I’m anti-King but King-In at this point.  Should never have been re-appointed in the first place but I can’t see the logic in getting shot at present.   As mentioned previously, better the joker you know.

For now.

Or should that be Fnarrrr

I do think that if results don't improve King won't be given much longer. The idea that the board would never sack him is not true,  he has just always managed to turn it around at crucial points, something we should be thankful for as he has then gone on to prove why sacking him would have been a mistake.

I am grateful that he wasn't sacked back in 2002/2003 or after the run of defeats in 2003/2004 because otherwise that season would never have been as enjoyable it was.

I do believe that we are more than capable of turning around the form of the last 3 games but I feel we are reaching a crucial point and don't expect King to still be manager in a months time.

I only hope that the predictions that attendances and results will improve don't turn out to be wildly optimistic but I fear they will.


I've always said that the only way we will go down this year is if King leaves during the year and for the first time I think we may well get relegated now. I just can't see whoever's appointed keeping us up. :cry:

I can't stand the thought but it feels like we're going the way of 1999/2000 again, it could have been so different,we were so close. My feelings would basically summed up as we are fucked and it fucking hurts me to say it.

I asked for someone to convince me we'd get someone decent in but no-one has.:(

My opinion of what would happen  is a lot of people would odviously initially be very happy that King was sacked and in the short term attendances may increase. My fear is that the board will appoint someone useless, due to finances, not having enough fooballing knowledge to appoint someone decent and their past track record.

I expect most fans would then say well anyone's better than King right....but if results didn't improve and I doubt they really would attendances would soon drop off again.

My only hope is that the players we currently have would be enough to stave off relegation as we do have some decent players.


The worry is when the next manager is given the task of bringing in some new players. I just hope they are capable of making some decent signings on this kind of budget. If we get someone as clueless as Gorman that's it. Fuck I hope we get lucky. If it's Reeves  or Iffy then good luck to them but any more than relegation would be a surprise.

The thing we really need is some good news from the council to give us some hope.

Adje asked for the disadvantages of a new manager. Well really there are too many to list but I'll give a few and try not to depress myself too much.

Sandy Gray would be in charge of appointing the new manager. Enough said.

It is entirely possible and in fact highly likely that the new manager would make us do a lot worse than we are doing now.

It's odds on the board are likely to go for the cheap option, appointing Reeves or similar who really isn't suitable.

Attendances will only decrease unless results pick up.

We will be taking a gamble, not a small gamble one that could cost the future of the club.

Stay away fans will just find another excuse, probably the next manager. Fools like lifetime red will simply switch to moaning about the new manager after a week. Nothing will change there.

No change to our real problems, we'll still be in the shit financially, our chief executive still won't have a clue, the council won't be any less likely to block any of our plans.

There are loads more but I tried to stick just to a few facts. The last two are things that will not change but some people expect to.

Anyway bring on the new era. :(

Its a bit sad to see you giving up the fight BWB.....your analysis of the likely outcome of a King sacking is just about right.....in fact its unlikely there would be an immediate increase in gates, more likely the opposite as what happened when McMahon was sacked.

  That event was also followed by a relegation soon after....and its likely similar will happen here,  you can't just fire out 12 or so players and replace them with cheap alternatives and expect to get anywhere.

Yes it is very sad.I think im going to cry. :cry:

That pretty much sums up why I'd rather we carry on camping with King at least until the end of the season.  

As much as I'd love to get shot I have less confidence in Diamandis to select an able replacement.

As mentioned numerous times he has a record for turning it around in worse conditions than this and I'd wager by Christmas we'll be sat pretty in 13th wondering what all the fuss was about.

Certainly there are managers and realistic candidates out there who could quite easily have a fighting chance of getting something out of this side worth watching.

Well I wouldn't say giving up the fight, I still hold out some hope like Dazzza that we can turn this around, we've had some tough games to start the year and it is possible but it is tough.

Any immediate increase in attendance I would expect to be barely noticable and not the laughable 2000 above the average that I've seen talked about elsewhere.

Personally I will be absolutely gutted when King leaves 'cos he's halted our slide, very nearly reversed it and you never know whats going to happen next.

Sadly with most managers I can guess what will happen next and it's not good.

http://www.thedugout.tv/community/images/smilies_final/wtf.gif

Agree with this, there is a lot of potential in this set of players and we just need to get the best out of them.

King stated some time ago that he would take a better job if offered one, equally he must expect dismissal if we could get someone better. However, as I said before, this should be done only in the close season in my view, so that every Club would start and finish on a level playing field irrespective of finances as far as possible. The playing staff would be the manager's and he would have to deal with them through the season, good or bad.

This would need rule changes and is probably full of holes, but I hate managerial changes mid-season and would like to see it stopped. Probably an unpopular view, but I  am a bit eccentric.  :evil:

Why are you so convinced a new manager wouldn't get more out of the squad than King is?

Look at how much Ian Dowie turned Palace around after Trevor Francis (a so called experienced manager) and he had no experience whatsoever.

Who's to say a new guy won't do better than King is at the moment?

Tough games?

Nottm Forest who are simple awful
Two promoted clubs
Three clubs who narrowly avoided relegation
A team the division below is in the cup
Last season 3rd place who we beat last season

Hardly difficult is it thus far, we still havent played the likes of Bradford, Brentford, Scunthorpe, Huddersfield, Swansea...it isnt going to get any easier..

Southend are currently 6th in the table, Walsall are just outside the playoffs, as our Tranmere, Barnsley and Oldham are also decent sides and Nottingham Forest are also very likely to recover.

And Kinky there's no reason to believe they would do any better and nobody has given any reasons too believe we'd get someone decent but as I said I hope we get lucky.

you can't just fire out 12 or so players and replace them with cheap alternatives and expect to get anywhere.[/quote]




Reg what makes you think 12 players will leave as soon as King goes?Or have I read it wrong?

Ben you are a guy who is passionate about the Town and someone whose opinion I respect.You consruct a decent argument but I would just like to add a few comments about your"disadvantages".I really cant believe that the Board would give Ms.Gray 100% jurisdiction on a new appointment.
Yes it is possible that a new man might be worse-but I reckon highly unlikely.He would have to continually pick players out of position;persist with totally unsuitable systems and fail to get the best out of what is agreed is a decent squad of players-oh and he would waste time and money by signing players like Gurney(admittedly thats just my opinion)
If the new man WAS reeves-would that be such a bad thing?A man who has proved himself to be 100%Swindon,a respected man in football with many contacts and a man familiar with the currnt players.Oh how people laughed when we appointed Macari,Ossie and Hoddle as managers!
Ithink it would be a massive gamble to hope that King eventually gets it right.
The other 2 points I totally agree with.

I think Reg is on about the players that left in the summer.

Are you seriously telling me, that all the sides we have played are good? and we have the rubbish ones to come?

None of the sides we've played have been brilliant, and I know this isnt the point at all, but the Swindon Team of two years ago would have beaten them all rather easily....

The only side i rate out of the ones we have played are Tranmere.

If you went to the match, youd probably say differently

Both games against the Trannies last season I thought they were punching above their weight - wasn't impressed.

The only thing they had going for them was that they were organised (something we could desperately do with, granted) and were big guys, I didn't go this term but I've heard they are more lightweight, and are of course without Hume now.

total bollocks. we still went on losing streaks even with a good team

Yes, but it wasnt like we were ever playing really awful. It wasnt like he we didnt have players capable of a bit of magic.....

Yes, we went on a bad run, but we didnt lose to shite week in and week out....

King is not up to the task tactically, that is currently,  and has been clearly evident since he has been at the club.
Woan should be given the job, he has done well with the youths, and I;d like to see him in.
I never rated Reeves as a player, and I think he is too close to King, and would not like him to be appointed manager, as I feel that this would be a sideways movement instead of a forwards one.
Woan is young, has done well, albeit with limited experience, and would unite the fans,  and is ambitious enough to make people stand up and take note.
Kings time is now and slipping fast, and I feel hes taken us as far as he can.

Stuff that, Woan should still be playing central midfield!!!

Not really dv85, we played awful regularly just like most teams do, remember we were 15th at Christmas.

We lost to Wycombe who were bottom in the cup, we lost to stockport who were in the relegation zone. We lost to peterborough who were near the bottom but in the end we did very well.

We certainly did play really awful at times and you certainly thought so.

Here's one of your posts from April 2005

....and did we not sort out the defence, by bringing Ifil back on loan? or even Sean O'Hanlon on a permenant deal?

That was after we'd signed Sean O'Hanlon and when Ifil had finished his last loan spell. Point is we didn't play well all the time but we pulled through and finished the season in a very good position.

Well if needs be Woan can get out on the pitch until he can devise/purchase a captain for us (and NOT Gurney)
Those 3 are the 3 muskateers, King, Reeves and Gurney! The sooner we are shot of them the better!

Again, that quote only says we had a poor defence, it didnt say we played poorly, it didnt say we were out played. It didnt say we went down without a fight. It didnt say we didnt look dangerous going forward, it didnt say we couldnt cross for shit, it didnt say we werent capable of scoring. It didnt say players were out of position etc

Ok then here's another



That one does say we were playing poorly

http://www.thisisstfc.co.uk/forum_new/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10432