|
Title: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:10:27 What is the actual rule on this?
I was under the impression that if it was accidental (ball to hand) then it doesn't count. I think it would have been a harsh decision to give the penalty considering it was clearly unintentional. If the rules state it should have been a penalty however, then rules are rules. And the ref denied it because he said his hands were down by his side, which some refute. By 'hand down by their side' just what is meant? It's unreasonable to expect players to keep their arms parallel with their bodies as they need their arms to balance and what not. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:13:08 I don't know what the actual law is, but I hear a lot of pundits talk about if the hand was in an unnatural position....which his clearly wasn't.
It would have been harsh, as would have the other two that Clough reckons they should have had seeing as I actually don't even know what he could be referring to. Sour grapes. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: reeves4england on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:22:07 It's an old article, not sure anything has changed though.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4524354.stm
Quote "In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)". Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials". It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area. "A caution or dismissal is not normally required." However, the document fails to describe what constitutes deliberate handball, which places the responsibility firmly on the referee and referees' assistants. Former Premier League referee David Elleray said the referee's interpretation depends on whether the hand or arm is in an "unnatural" position at the point of contact. David Elleray consults his assistant during a club Referees often consult their assistants on decisions "Referees look at two specifics - did the hand or arm go towards the ball or in a manner which would block the ball, or is the hand in a position where it would not normally be?" Elleray told BBC Sport. "The challenging decisions are if the defending player spreads their arms to make themselves bigger. "If the ball hits the arm then the referee must decide whether this action was to deliberately block the ball or whether the player has raised their arms to protect themselves - especially if the ball is hit at speed." Based on the above, I'd say no penalty. But you see them given pretty much every week, and I was surprised this one wasn't. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:28:29 There's no way it was deliberate, if anything he tried to move his hand out of the way. That just confirms my initial thought that Clough is being a whingey piss-bag (although they did have other decisions go against them)
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: kerry red on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:30:13 Got to say I thought it was a nailed-on penalty. He lent towards the ball with his left arm away from his body.
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Ginginho on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:30:24 It obviously wasn't deliberate, however wouldn't have been surprised if it was given.
If it was the other way around i'd have been screaming for a penalty to be honest. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: stfc1975 on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:31:52 Got to say I thought it was a nailed-on penalty. He lent towards the ball with his left arm away from his body. No way. He tried getting out of the way Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: suttonred on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:34:53 Nailed on pen the handball was. I also thought the second one was as well, but the Sheffield players launch in to the stratosphere probably convinced the ref otherwise.
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: kerry red on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:35:05 Cheaty Swindle fan!
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Ells on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 18:35:43 It's an old article, not sure anything has changed though.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4524354.stm Based on the above, I'd say no penalty. But you see them given pretty much every week, and I was surprised this one wasn't. Nope, nothing's changed. Laws of the game 2014/2015 says the same thing, deliberate. Amazed anyone's even debating it really, seemed so obviously unintentional to me. But yeah, you do see them given so I guess that's where most of the confusion is. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Arriba on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 20:59:51 If it had been the other way around we'd be moaning about it.
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Batch on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 21:02:58 yes we would arriba, they are so often given I was amazed he didn't give it. to the letter of the law it was the correct decision, but it's not consistent with most other refs
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 21:08:51 If it had been the other way around we'd be moaning about it. Not me. Sheff Utd were given a hard time by the ref, generally speaking his decisions went against them and could have cost them the game. In my opinion, however, the 'handball' was not one of them. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: adje on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 23:01:54 handball HAS to be deliberate to be an offence but in truth rarely is
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 23:07:10 handball HAS to be deliberate to be an offence but in truth rarely is The only time I see a case to make an exception on this, is if the player is on the line and it stops a goal going in. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: THE FLASH on Saturday, May 9, 2015, 23:40:34 Defo pen for me.
Also accidental but caused by lack of skill is a pen too....like the United one today. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Paolo69 on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 07:52:02 I've not seen it again but at the time thought it just hit him. If it wasn't deliberate then it isn't a pen. It didn't stop me shitting myself and looking straight to the ref.
Definitely seen them given but people can't really moan when the ref actually interprets the laws of the game correctly for a change. I agree with a Arriba that we'd be moaning like hell the other way around, still not a pen unless it was deliberate though. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: kerry red on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 09:14:16 The real, and only, reason it wasn't a penalty was that the ref decided it wasn't.
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: DarloSTFC84 on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 10:36:16 The real, and only, reason it wasn't a penalty was that the ref decided it wasn't. How did you get to that conclusion?... Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: kerry red on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 10:45:03 It came to me in a dream!
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Honkytonk on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 10:46:27 Ref was a bit shit for Sheffield - not letting them play on and pulling it back later to book Kasim for example, but it wasn't a handball. There's also the further guidance on page 119 of FIFA's laws of the game.
"Handling the ball Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration: • the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) • the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) • the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement" Like hundreds of penalty decisions a year, the ball is fired from a tiny distance into a defender's arm. There's zero to low chance of that defender being able to get his arm out of the way. It's ball to hand, not hand to ball. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Peter Venkman on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 10:50:26 Definate penalty, we got lucky....thats what football is about at times and can win or lose games because of judgemental errors by referees.
These decisions tend to even themselves out over a season though. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: donkey on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 11:02:08 Ref was a bit shit for Sheffield - not letting them play on and pulling it back later to book Kasim for example, but it wasn't a handball. There's also the further guidance on page 119 of FIFA's laws of the game. "Handling the ball Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration: • the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) • the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) • the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement" Like hundreds of penalty decisions a year, the ball is fired from a tiny distance into a defender's arm. There's zero to low chance of that defender being able to get his arm out of the way. It's ball to hand, not hand to ball. I always think about what we'd do if a keeper got his hand to the ball. In this case if Wes had saved that from that distance, we'd be on our feet applauding. I assume no-one is claiming Gladwin is a better keeper than Wes...so it's not deliberate, and therefore no infringement has been committed. No pen for me. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: THE FLASH on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 12:20:18 Turnbull getting sythed down from behind in the League game was a pen....defo.
Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: donkey on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 12:20:48 Turnbull getting sythed down from behind in the League game was a pen....defo. The league game was a farce. Title: Re: The 'handball' that wasn't. Post by: Paolo69 on Sunday, May 10, 2015, 12:42:44 The league game was a farce. Ahhh yes, pretty sure Sheffield had the rub of the green that day. Ref even went all "preseason" and seemed to let Cloughie sub their winger before he got sent off, predominantly for countless fouls on Thommo. Short memories! |