Thetownend.com

THE SAM MORSHEAD COLUMN: Reputation doesn't matter in this game
           
           


  WHAT is it with managerial appointments and snap-judgments?

           

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/10632553.THE_SAM_MORSHEAD_COLUMN__Reputation_doesn_t_matter_in_this_game/?ref=rss
           
           
           

Load of old tripe to justify the cheap option.

Cooper may do OK, or not,  but we could surely have attracted a more proven candidate.

I don't think Sam is ever liable to rock the boat again which is a shame really. That BBC Wilts reporter who dived straight in with the 'cheapest option' question at the press conference was superb.

Clive King (RIP) is probably turning in his grave at the state of modern journalism.

Eh? PDC is a league manager and is the polar opposite of all those things, it proves nothing.

Sam's little write ups have less steel than a cucumber. I agree with Batch in that he may be good he may not but these comments are utter gash.

Good piece and it highlights the fact that our most successful, recent(ish) managers have all had little, or no management experience: Macari; Ardiles; Hoddle; Muck Muck; Wise and di Canio.
I can't see why the piece is 'tripe', much rather see a positive spin put on the appointment instead of looking for negatives.
Just because he's the cheap option (I don't know how much he's on, or the going rate for a lower league manager) doesn't mean he's the wrong option.

Quit with your reasoning and sensibility.

Sorry.

Reputation does matter. To those sat in the stands at least. An ex top player or proven capable manager will always get more patience from supporters. That said when the squad and style of play has been decided I'd hope fans will lay off Cooper if things don't go great.

Don't think I've ever wanted a manager to do well as much as I do with Cooper, and for so many reasons.

Of those managers all had International playing experience with the exception of PDC and all had top flight experience either just in the UK or also abroad, that's a good start.

Now, that doesn't mean you're on a banker from the start but all those 'names' were all successful with us and many went on to manage bigger clubs. Also, those managers had either just finished playing or in the majority were still playing which I think had an influence to style and thoughts.

If you want to offer a defence to the appointment and Sam's text then I would use the fact that experienced managers are not always the best ones rather than using some of the most successful 'unexperienced' managers we've had to defend his appointment, use Hart for example  ;D

Saying he's inexperienced mind he's had 9 years on and off being a manger, starting in 2004 with Tamworth. Not experienced in league football though.

Know one knows whether he's the right man or not but he's not got a great background either as a player or manager, he may be the next Wenger though...

Mark Cooper ffs.

I want the bloke to do well but come on, it's about as underwhelming an appointment as we could of made.

Morshead doesn't want to say anything even slightly controversial, don't really blame him, but it makes for boring and garbage articles like this one.

My thoughts exactly, it would be so sweet if we were in the top five at Xmas.

Like Tranmere last season?

Your point being? Tranmere finished comfortably mid table, would you not be happy with that come the end if the season? Most people have us nailed on certainties for relegation.

For every successful player who goes on to have a successful managerial career, there are many more who fail miserably. You can't equate one with the other. How many Premier League Managers were top flight, quality players? Moyes? Mourinho? Wenger? Allardyce?
I agree that experienced managers are not always the best option, just as untried, inexperienced managers are not always the worst. That's why appointing a manager isn't an exact science.
He may turn out shit, he may turn out great, he may turn out mediocre, I'm not in a position to make a judgement after 4 games. His CV is mixed as a manager, but some managers 'click' at particular clubs and not at others.
Like I have with all previous managers, I hope he's successful and will give him time to show what he can do.

Agree

Great post.

I agree, I was just using the examples you gave of successful 'unexperienced' managers, as I said its no banker for success.

His experience is working with small budgets but in the non-league environment and his only league experience was a pretty poor one, although made out to be worse than it actually was.

He's the new manager for my club so I'll support him thoroughly in the initial period. My fear is that because he's not a 'name' the fans will be on his back a lot sooner.

My point being that what has the league position at Christmas got to with anything?

The final league position was a disaster for Tranmere considering their league placing throughout the bulk of the season.

I'd take mid table now but that doesn't mean I have to be happy with it, I may be over the moon if we're 23rd for the majority of the season.

I think that's a nailed on certainty.

I agree with you on that count. I think my point was aimed at all those fans who have their phasers firmly set on 'fail', they want Cooper to fail so they can revel in all this "it hurts me to say it, but I told you so" they want Ranger to fail so they can repeat the same mantra.

It's prob not going to happen as I'm never this lucky but you have to admit it would be hilarious if we were top five at Xmas and Ranger is into double figures (of goals scored, not weeks served), the back tracking from some would be a pleasure to read. Which would make a pleasant change for this site.

I want them all to do well, they are at my club.

Anyone that wants to celebrate the demise of individuals at Swindon is a moron, when individuals fail the club does too.

My point was as a club of our size I wouldn't expect someone of coopers background to be anywhere on the list.

Hence I think the article to be garbage.

It's not really about how well I think he will do. He'll get my support.

Batch view is mine....should be no where near us....but he is...so I hope he does well....

Quite, Cooper has got the job for the wrong reasons...sometimes though a seemingly desperate appointment works out, look at Eddie Howe or Nigel Adkins, so let's see....today is massive, Cooper needs to a decent display of football, and avoiding defeat will be a help.

Of course we all want him to do well but at the end of the day sometimes people arent good enough.

For many reasons I don't think Cooper will be good enough for us, prove me wrong Mark...

Willing Cooper to do well, have a feeling he'll be OK - nothing more, nothing less.

I don't think you can read that much into managerial records across multiple clubs as each club will have had their own unique set of circumstances which directly or indirectly influenced the results. Reputation is of course a factor, as it can provide that little bit of excitement for the fans and players when a big name is appointed. A bigger name that the fans are united behind will always be given greater patience by the fans if things aren't immediately successful. King is a good example of a manager who split the fanbase before almost unanimously turning them against him whilst doing a fairly decent job. Cooper will never be given a fair chance here and it's unlikely we'll see what he's capable of due to the situation we find ourselves in.

People are commenting that ordinarily we wouldn't go near someone like Cooper yet in recent years we've appointed Malpas, Iffy and King. These are not ordinary days at STFC and it's unrealistic to expect us to attract another Macari, Ardiles or Hoddle. How many clubs at our level are currently managed by recently retired high profile ex-players?* Footballers seem disinterested into moving into management at the end of their playing career nowadays, particularly at the highest level where punditry or golf is a far more attractive proposition, so the appointment of Di Canio was a rare instance.



*David Weir, Jame Beattie

Another great post.....

Let's get behind him and the team and get on with it!...

But they don't backtrack do they? They just carry on posting and pretend their previous comments never happened. I seem to remember a few people having a right moan about the players we signed in the closed season. Outraged that we'd signed someone that had spent time playing for Mansfield (having got confused between a tiny lower league Cheshire club and a tiny lower league Nottinghamshire club).

Now people are saying he's one of the finds of the season, and I don't see anyone's hand gong up to admit they were wrong.

Harry Agombar hasnt even played a game for us.

Not sure why there seems to be this idea that we are a 'big' club comes from....
 
We are a team that yo yo's between the third and fourth divisions in recent times on crowds of around 7.5k. We struggle to balance the books and are a selling club.  We cannot afford a pricey manager and are still trying to balance the books.

Don't know where it comes from but sometimes it's all a bit Leeds.

I don't think there's many that see us as a big club, but in the very recent past ie this year and last year Cooper has been competing for jobs at basket case non league clubs like Kettering and Telford...do either still currently exist? Then based on very little he's good enough for us...Barnet for example have Edgar Davids, whilst being a non league club, I'm not saying Davids should be here, but it does show, you can pick up "names" if they want to start off somewhere down the pyramid.

Hadn't Di Canio just been overlooked for the Newport job when we appointed him?

It's quite obvious who he means but you know that.

It was rumoured that he'd had some contact with Newport...which just emphasises my point that even in our current austerity condition, we should be capable of attracting someone better than Cooper.

I'm not sure that he did

Lumps posted was directly aimed at me for a post I made.
If you use the search function you can easily find out that, my post in question was in a thread that mentioned Harris from Wimbledon and Agombar - it's even the thread in which the Agombar video was posted.
So, my original post was in reference to Agombar.

...but...lets not let details get in the way...80% bollocks...

Oh woops! I should've known he was talking about you and only you when he said and I quote: "a few people" and then continued on to clearly make reference to Yaser Kasim being a great find.

The reference to typing Mansfield instead of Macclesfield is clearly directed at me, as I made that mistake in the post Lumps is talking about...

you didn't? fucking brilliant

And a lot of good the big named Edgar Davids did for Barnet!!

I don't want a big name - I want a decent manager and am prepared to give Cooper time to prove it (or not)

How many games do you consider time?

It just seems to me that if you're looking to develop young players to play sexy football, then the chances are someone like Davids, who was developed through the Ajax system and played for Barcelona might know a bit more about it than Cooper, who as far as anybody knows, has next to no experience of player development.

Time for a first post & why not jump right into the middle of a minor bicker.

There's a massive difference between being a player that was developed, and developing players. Where is it written that a top player will make a top coach? There's good reason to think that they have other problems - it must be awkward training players that are going to have much less potential, and ability than you yourself did - are you going to be able to relate as well to them?

People constantly refer to the success that we had with Macari & Ardiles - quite so, but both flopped elsewhere so you'd be hard pressed to say they were successes overall as managers. Yep I've excluded Hoddle as he clearly was a success, but Dave MacKay was both before my time & a disaster too & although McMahon won a title with us he was hardly a resounding success.

Fucking noob

It depends on what expectations are. I have no real expectations re promotion this season, so personally I'd be happy to have a middling season playing decent football.

Others will think we have some divine right to be in or about the play-offs and will be on his back sooner.

If it looks like disaster is looming I'd advocate a change - the same no matter who was in charge.

I just don't get the idea that because he hasn't this or that on his CV he is BOUND TO BE a disaster.

And I'm a sucker for an underdog!

For a second there I thought I'd managed to get called a nob on my first post.  :(

You're lucky.

It's usually a c***!!

Something to aspire to!

Didn't Davids just get Barnet relegated to the conference.....

It's true that some excellent coaches weren't great players, and some great players are/were excellent coaches. It's an inexact science, sometimes you can get lucky...for example when Scunny turned to their physio. I daresay not many thought Adkins would be so good, but his Div 3 success was based on a time honoured formula....find yourself a couple of frontmen, play 4-4-2. Scunny got Sharp and Keogh...then Hayes and Hooper.

I'd imagine Cooper's non league sides and briefly Posh all played 4-4-2....when he arrived in March, he said he wanted to learn from KMac as he had a record of player development and playing one up front.

I'm in a bit of a minority, insofar as I don't mind playing one up front, and I don't mind the style of play being dictated by a DoF, who also recruits the players....my gripe is that taking those things into account...you need to be appointing someone who can demonstrate at least belief, if not excellence...which is why I was happy with KMac.

If you refer to managerial careers post STFC, then for McK*** some might have you concede he did win a tier one  championship with Derby County. 

The antithesis of our Don Rogers whom he sold, McK*** was a scheming man who manoeuvred himself into good positions and he had "forged" his success on the back of Brian Clough's Derby team.

McK*** got found out a year later however, was sacked and never really re-surfaced - so I think your point stands, Jev.