Thetownend.com

Kevin MacDonald positive on Swindon Town stay
     

Kevin MacDonald is positive he will remain in charge of Swindon despite reports he is only tied to a short-term deal.
     

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22433779
     

If he is only on a short contract then I think we should try and get someone else in. Kenny Jackett would be ideal but I doubt he would drop to League 1.

Would like another continental manager in if possible. Someone that will make the players train proper hours.

Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink..

Surely good news, if there's a chance we can get rid of him we should take it.

League One isn't complicated. Our most successful managers have been those who have kept the players out of the pub and running in circles for hours.

Fair play to him for leaving a fairly secure youth job at Villa to take over our misfiring misfits on a short term deal.

All very well people wanting him out, but who could we attract with our likely poor financial position next season?

Can't say I am looking forward to a full KMac season but, hey, give him a chance to fuck up with his own team

I'm pretty sure he had already left Villa when he took over here.

Did not know that.

He can fuck off, then

When he was hired, weren't we told he was on a 2 1/2 year contract? I remember being very surprised we'd offer such a lengthy contract under the circumstances!!


Also, not really sure it's fair at this stage to start thinking of other managers! I won't repeat the plethora of debate that we've been over on these forums a million times, just feel we can't really judge KMac till after the first 10 games of next season.

Was nice to see him responding to the crowd at Brentford also. A bit more of that wouldn't do him any harm!! Will be interesting to see how he can do on a budget next season.



Key quote from that article: "And that's the thing with Swindon - we don't know about finances at this moment."

I don't really want us to give him the chance to fuck up.

Got it in one.

I probably imagined it… but I swear I read an article in the Adver where Jed said we already had a budget for the Championship and one for League for next season.

Didn't realise he was on a short term contract.

Not sure that I want him to go, as I don't think he's had a fair crack of the whip.

But, he's been a bit Maurice Malpas and Paul Hart thus far.

I suspect this is why we've not had the answers to those questions yet..... they don't know the answers themselves yet.

Cud be because nobody knows who the owner will be.

Jed surely can't spend a whole season getting ratted with the fans at away day pubs

We were pretty much top of the league you clown

I was referring to them as they are now

In which case you weaken your own argument that he should be given time to mould his team, seeing how he's ballsed this one about.

Been a tad unfortunate with injuries and the lack of signings and although I was happy for him to be flogged at half time yesterday, he really does deserve to show what he can, or cannot, do

 This gets more bizarre by the day....when KMac came in we were told it ws on a 2.5 year contract. Lee Power likes Jimmy Quinn.

Agree and I think some of the answers will differ now that we're going to be in League 1 than if we'd been in the Championship.

If KMac was on a short term contract, I wonder why it wasn't made public?  Where did the two and a half years come from?  It will be interesting to see what happens now, has he done enough to warrant a longer contract in the eyes of Jed and co?  Fundamentally if his remit was to get us promoted, then he's not met the objective.

Am interested in seeing the sort of team he'd build next year and think he'll be good for the youth set-up if that's the way we're heading.

Definitely deserves a chance. Didn't think this would even be up for debate.

When a few drunken youths tried to start a chant about Macdonald not having a clue at 3-1 down yesterday it got the frosty reception it deserved.

Anybody suspicious like me on Mr Coppell being at the Brentford games.

Works for Crawley..probably hoping top get a bargain or 3 in our fire sale.

Was he drinking with fans yesterday?  Sorry if mentioned before, but I was at game and haven't trawled through the match day thread.

Apparently so before the game and came in for some stick.

On what basis does he "definitley deserve a chance"? Would that be his 29% win ratio?

It's difficult to judge him solely on the back of what's happened so far. Comparing him to di Canio is unfair,  as they haven't both operated with the same budget or constraints. He made some tactical mistakes, just like any new manager makes.
I'm happy to see what he does in the summer and how his team shapes up next season.

Perfectly put.

Probably so the players wouldn't be in any doubt who the manager was.

If the board came out and said he's on a deal until the end of the season the players could've already had an excuse to not perform.

My opinion ebbs and flows.

After the 1st half yesterday I was thinking we may need to find a new manager quickly but the 2nd half made me think that he deserves a shot with his own squad.

Cheers.  I didn't see him but then Brentford ain't short of pubs.  If I had I might have politely asked if he fancied answering the 2/3 week old questions before he sat down for a pint.

That's where I find myself. He's on a hiding to nothing from some quarters though, and will be again next season if the budget is cut as much as we fear. There have been glimpses of good football as well as tactical naivety - i for one wouldn't be adverse to seeing him stamp his own style and system on the club with players hand-picked to fit it and the whole summer to get used to it.

I think in order to fully judge KMac properly he needs more time.

I thought he was a good appointment, plenty of experience without the stigma of having done the rounds and and failed else where (hi Danny Wilson)

However, whatever you now think of Team Di Canio the methods worked. In my opinion KMac should have come in and kept everything the same and steered the ship home.

Then once the season was over he could change the formation, the players, the training, the hours as much as he wants. It gives him enough time to put his stamp on things without disrupting the current season.

Sadly he didn't do this. He put his stamp on things too soon and this left us disjointed and effected us in my opinion.

I think KMacs team selections have been baffling in some cases but he's not working with his own players. Simon Ferry should never ever be played on the right wing.

However, what KMac has done well for the most part is making the right subs at the right time - Brentford, Yeovil and Coventry and prime examples. Saying that his refusal to change it at Doncaster was horrendous and you could argue in some cases the subs he makes are just correct the mistakes he made in the first place.

I think its obvious KMac won't motivate them like PDC did and the players certainly won't fear KMac like they did PDC.

I think its too early to judge and the only way to get a true indication on KMac his to give him next season.

It would be great if he could come good but personally I can't see it. Currently I'd class him as a step up from Malpas but two steps below Sturrock.

We can only wait and see.

However, IF come the start of next season KMac is still here and Ferry is still here and he plays Ferry on the right wing - I'll be calling for his head as soon as we kick off!

Here's looking at you kid.

[url width=203 height=152]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41109000/jpg/_41109333_aking203.jpg[/url]

On the basis that 14 games is an embarrassingly short time to make a snap judgement over a manager on.

Alex Ferguson's had a win percentage of 34.2% for the 88/89 AND the 89/90 season that followed, and that was with a team he had already had two years to build and mould in the way he wanted (a luxury you're evidently not willing to extend to Kmac). Plenty of fans called for his head back then too:


Took him 225 games over 7 seasons to win his first title at United. But I suppose if you were in charge he wouldn't have even lasted 14 games.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, there are plenty of managers who would have taken a club down the leagues if not sacked and those are in the majority over those managers like Ferguson.

I'm not advocating getting rid of KMac BTW, I think given the concentration on budget cuts he'll be the type of manager we need for spying a good young player.

Seems to do very well with clubs where expectations are low - not so well with a 'bigger' club.

Wouldn't mind him at all

I may be wrong here but where was it ever confirmed that he was a 2.5 year deal? The only thing I remember was seeing a tweet from Morshead saying he believed that to be the case. There was never anything official to say how long KMAC had been given on his contract.

As well as it not being Kmac's team, he also had a very small squad to work with - for a number of games he only had 15 fit first team players and that included two goalkeepers. I'm not convinced PDC would have done any better in the same situation, for starters he'd have been too busy moaning about it and slagging off the board to the press.

Kmac gets a lot of bonus points from me for putting youth players on the bench and playing them on a few occasions. We need to develop younger players and get back to being a selling club to balance the books and Kmac is the man to do that.

Yet another example of the fans being kept in the loop.

Why does the silence seem so deafening at this club these days?

It wouldn't surprise me if we signed Leo Messi and the first we heard about it was Summer of Naughty Nine (SONN) spotting him on our pre-season tour of the vale of white horse.

Ive only seen 8 games well Kmac has been in charge, but the football that we have played hasnt been promotion form. The first half yesterday was proof of that im still shocked we managed to get 3 goals and ofcourse the second half was an improvement and thats solely because you could not get any worse than the first half.

Ferry playing on the right side has had me scratching my head for awhile now. He seems to be the only who thinks he can play in that position.

Agreed.

I'm probably in the minority, but I'd quite like MacDonald to stay and build his own squad. As much as that bloke who's now at Sunderland instilled a real desire and passion back into the club, he didn't give any chance to youth players. If our budget is to be cut (quite understandably, unless we want to end up in the shit again) then a policy of bringing through youth players is exactly what we need and I think Kevin MacDonald is better qualified for that job than some also-ran that's been knocking around the lower leagues for decades and would only get the job because of their willingness to work with a small wage budget over some bigger name managers.

If k mac is staying on I think we need to get some better back room staff, wes for example, hes really struggled lately, especially in penaltys. We need a decent goalkeeping coach, no offence to digby but he ain't no coach.

There are plenty of smaller clubs with smaller budgets and unheard of managers that do well, why shouldn't that extend to us

Well said Samdy.

The problem here Samdy, is that if the use of youth is to be the future, then it needs to be very loudly shouted out to te fan base, as Town fans are notoriously quick to jump onto the backs of local youngsters.  You have fans like JTR who consider their investment in a season ticket a risk, as it appears, we might not have the hoped for expensive promotion chasing squad.

Steve Davis at Crewe has said, that if you use a lot of kids, you're just as likely to go down as up, and have to be prepared to accept this.

Done properly, youth development is expensive, and only a cheap option if not done properly. Unfortunately we're still waiting for clarity from the Board, as to what we might expect from next season.

I think many have already made thier mind up about MacDonald.

I see a stuttering start to next season followed by calls for his head in October before the season peters out into midtable obscurity.

This season was our chance to get out of League 1 - it can't be this weak again for a while.

I fear that the 5 kids being offered deals when we could have been in The Championship next season speaks volumes sadly.

Agree with that too. You posted t'other day that Fitton set his stall out early and said that youth would be the way forward and to some extent we did manage to balance the books until we went and got relegated and Jezza Wray decided to borrow from the bank of Andrew Black to get us back into League One.

If the budget really is so low we need to pad with 5 youngsters MacD is hamstrung from the start. He's going to have to be a managerial genius to survive the crowd, though in a strange way maybe a shit budget would buy him more time.

Oh sweet, champions next year then. Thanks Dr. Chang!

Dream on.

Kmac is pressured by the stfc fans, not a good trait in a football manager. Yesterday fans were singing for Storey, and he put him on. At Yeovil, fans sang for 442, he changed the formation. I'm not able to attend many games but I'm sure these are not the only cases where kmac has not been able to think for himself.

I'm in the get rid gang, personally

If his deal is up as reported, then he shouldn't be given a new one.

His aim was to get us up - he didn't. Failure shouldn't be rewarded with a new contract.

I assume he is under contract, in which case I'm all for him having a shot at it and building his own squad.

A man of your calibre should know for a fact whether his contract is up or not

If the club are putting faith in youth then we need academy status. That will take significant increases in funding to achieve it. The current model will not produce what anyone desires often enough.

When pdc departed,kmac was surely not simply intended as a short term appointment ie if you're looking short term you get someone in with experience to continue the promotion push not someone who can develop our youth system.I guess what I'm getting at is I'd be very surprised if his contract was only 3-4 months.

KMac in a youth based squad I suppose has the credentials. But part of me can't help but think of the 4-5-1 bollocks at home, and persisting with Ferry on the right.

Very much undecided on him, however he deserves longer to try and prove himself.

On the contrary I'm pretty sure that the oracle that is Fredi stated in his rant that KMAC was working without a contract. Judging on the majority of that rant yielding the truth so far then this wouldn't surprise me!!

I actually feel a bit sorry for KMac. Some of our retarded fans didnt give him a chance from the start, simply because he isnt Paolo Di Canio. Fighting a losing battle from the start.

Even if he got us up, and we lost the first game of the season in the championship, these cunts would be calling for his head.

I honestly don't really care who is our manager. I'll back whoever is in charge as long as I can because I think short termism is the worst thing in football.

If MacDonald goes then he'll just be replaced with another bloke who will do one of three things:

- fail miserably and not be relieved of his duties soon enough
- plod along in mid table playing dull football and cause endless debate on this forum where nobody really pays any attention to what each other are writing
- be successful and leave before the job is done

I'm sure we can come up with a few more scenarios than 3 as to what happens to STFC managers.

Wouldn't that then just be a potted history of our post-war managers? It all boils down to more or less those 3 outcomes or at least it has done in my time following Town.

What about Colin Todd and Roy Evans?

Before my time.

Both walked out, with the side doing no better than crap to ok, when realising they been told a crock of shit by the owners.

If MacDonald does stay, then at least he should have some idea what he's letting himself in for...this line being very illuminating...
 
"And that's the thing with Swindon - we don't know about finances at this moment."

Aarghhh.  I've obviously not been very clear in my original post, which I'm now going to edit.

Todd was Di Canio without the winning, wasn't he? Lots of dodgy foreign imports and lots of money spent.

I should think the last few months will have told MacDonald more than enough about the conditions he will be operating under but presumably he realises that his chances of finding another managerial role are very slim unless he proves himself here.

I don't know why I should give a monkeys about him, I don't even know that bloke. But I really hope he does do well for that reason (in addition to STFC being successful)

 I think we the fans have a gut instinct of when we have a good manager or not. A prime example of this is Macari, when he was sacked there was mass protests, because we knew that we had a manager who would get us places, and the facts speak for them selves, and to the same degree PDC, even after the start he made in the promotion year. Now we come to Kmac, im afraid i dont get the same confidence and aural from him and the way the team has performed since he took over has been at times absolute dross, Doncaster as a example, it seems like he cannot get the players to play for him or instill the passion that PDC had them playing with. As someone else has said he is 2 steps up the ladder from Malpas, i think just maybe 1 step, i think next season we will be fighting off relegation as ive no faith in him.
 Another thought, im sure that when Jed came in, he said that there would be a similar budget as there was for this season, or am i hearing and seeing things :badmood:

Yes, just like that time when we were 3-1 down to Brentford in the play off semi and just laid down and died...oh, wait ???

Sort of, I think there was an agent tie up and he brought in a load of crap. He jumped ship as soon as he possibly could - as early as October. I'd rate him as the worst manager we've had in my time, worse than Malpas and Heart.

I think you can count Macari, Hoddle and PDC in that "gut instinct" - every other manager that left we've been a bit "meh".

Wasn't even that upset when Ossie left as he didn't have a clue once the Macari team spirit and fitness had been filtered out (demonstrated at every other club he has been at)

 The problem with the gut instinct approach, is that it often fails to take account of time and circumstances. Two managers spring to mind, neither of whom were much liked spring to mind....Fred Ford and Dave Mackay. Ford got us 5th in Div 2, at the time our highest ever finish and won the Anglo Italian Cup, but he was seen a Bristol man having managed both clubs....a bit old and a bit grey.

Mackay was loathed by many as he attempted to break up the 69 squad....nevertheless a couple of years after leaving us he did win the League in 75 with Derby, thus being the only STFC manager to have that gong on his CV. So presumably he must have some quality.

Quiz question: Mackay also won the League with Spurs as a player, who are the only other 2 STFC managers to have done so?

Colin Todd and Andy king?

I am very much in the 'Give Mac a chance' clan.  The behind-the-scenes chaos of the last four months must have made working in the club virtually impossible, despite what various players etc have said.  Uncertainty about the future, rumours of dodgy activity, never completely clear of the threat of administration to derail any success achieved (and it would have almost certainly have involved enforced relegation or even ejection from the FL), the nasty tastes left from the di Canio departure (regardless of where blame lies for that)......  

It is remarkable that the football team, including KMac, managed to keep focussed enough to be in the play-offs and only to fail by the meagrest of margins to get the promotion we all longed for (but which could have been a disaster, given that we still know nothing about finances and plans from the board).  KMac himself, as has been pointed out, has had to work with a squad sometimes of no more than 14 or 15 fit players, and the loss of our iconic right winger (whose football may not have been match-winning all the time, but who had the 'X factor' in terms of morale etc).  Mistakes? He's made a few... who wouldn't, not knowing the players and having so little choice?  (People keep criticising him for keeping Collins on the subs bench, but di Canio did exactly the same for much of the 1st half of the season, especially when Martin arrived.)  A number of players have talked positively about his training methods, and we all (more or less) approve of the youth policy.  So let's give him a close season to build what he can and see what comes out at the end and then make a more informed judgement

I haven't bought a season ticket, not because my support is any less for the team or the club generally, and I will be there to support whatever players appear next season; but my reservations about the board expressed elsewhere remain strong and I am not going to put money into their pockets until those reservations are alleviated.

Todd...yes King ...no

Do you remember his assistant Des Anderson?

He is my mates Great Uncle and i met him the other day.  Was hoping to chat to him about his time with us but he is a bit shot pieces these days unfortunately

THere's another one...how could I have forgotten? So should be 3.

Mucmahon is one

Hoddle?

Yep.

No.

Oooh, I know.

It's Micky Hazard

MacDonald?

Confused by the question, are we naming Town managers who won the first division as a player whilst at Spurs or any former Town manager who has won the first division as a player?

If its town managers who have won the league (be it 1st or PL) then there is more than 3.

Kmac did indeed win the title with Liverpool in 86.

And Les Allen of course the great double winning team of 61.

Yep and Les Allen...I've confused myself here. You'd have thought I'd know by now to do a bit of research before setting a question.

So we've 5 so far....Mackay, Allen, Todd, McMahon, MacDonald. Any other offers?

Ince ?

Never managed us.

Fuck me! I almost hope that MacDonald just says fuck it and walks, and finds himself a cushy number running the youth set up at Wolves or somewhere. Why the fuck he should put up with the sort of shit support some of you lot provide I don't know.

I'm not sure what planet some of our fans live on. MacDonald should have "left the side alone and steered the ship home" apparently.

That's a fucking great idea genius! I'm sure he would have loved to. Shame that by the time he got here Ritchie, Martin, Hollands and Bostock had left the club, and Devera, Miller, Troy AH,  and a shit load more are out injured.

There's about five players that were making matchday squad during PDC's last month in charge, and at least three that were making the starting line-up each game that just weren't available.

Difficult to just keep things how they were.

I think the point people were making was not changing the formation of a team that had been playing a certain way successfully for 18 months. Yes we lost key squad members, but insistence on playing 4-5-1 ( particularly at home) when it clearly wasn't working isn't going to win you mass support. I don't think people were suggesting we play players who were injured/back at their parent clubs ;)

That said, he got us to the playoffs which was about all we could achieve without quality re-enforcements. And we were unlucky to get knocked out.

This is probably the end of the PDC assembled squad. Now he deserves more time to prove himself with his own players. Expectations need to be set by Jed now to give him a chance.

Kmac averaged 1.8 pts per home league game, compared to 1.67 pts pre Kmac.

Out of the 7 away games Kmac was in charge for, 5 were against teams in the top 8.

Really don't understand what basis there is for criticising him other than him not being an egotistical Italian twat.

well said jonny72

I'll :clap: for MacDonald until there's good enough reason not to.

Same as I do for all Town managers.

Do your stats show goals per 4-5-1 v goals per 4-4-2 :)

I was just pointing out what people I've spoken to largely thought. I still think KMac is worth ago over the Sanchez and Newell types.

Devera has been included in every single one of KMacs squads. TAH has been injured since November, Bostock went back in December. So lets not pretend all those options were there for Di Canio but suddenly disappeared when KMac arrived.

Regardless of players - was there any need to change the training? the pre-match preparation? was there any need to change from a 442 to a 451? and was there any need to play Simon Ferry as a right winger?

The last squad, Di Canio put out/prepared/left to his assistant, whatever you want to call it up at Tranmere, which won 3-1 to put is top of the league was as follows.

Foderingham, McCormack, Flint, Ward, McEveley, Roberts, Miller, Ferry, De Vita, Collins, Storey

Subs: Navarro, Thompson, Williams, Rooney, Smith, Bedwell,

Now how many of those were completely and utterly unavailable to KMac?

McEvelely played the first 4 games under KMac before getting injured - however, Devera has been back from injury.

Navarro has missed 4 games under KMac but been in the squad for 10.

Miller has featured in 8 of KMacs squads and missed out 6 times due to injury.

Storey has been the only one injured pretty much all the time, going off injured in that Tranmere game and only returning to squad for the play offs - now do you miss someone who didnt play a full game or season 2(+7)

...as for supporting the manager, not even going to go there.

Arse handed.

Lets do it properly though shall we

KMac average points per home game - 1.8

Ward/Miller average points per hame game - 0.5

PDC average points per home game - 1.75

Of course, PDC had to play all the top 8 at home and KMac have to play none of them - Walsall 9th, Notts County 12th, Crewe 13th, Stevenage 18th, Oldham 19th...

This debate is going to rumble on forever isn't it?

Maybe, maybe not.

I think it will go away now for a bit - KMac has to do the business in the summer and he has to do it well.

Think most of us (apart from DMR) will give him a chance with his own team on whatever the hell our budget for next season will look like and ultimately KMac will get judged on his own results.

It also depends on how KMac and Jed set our expectations pre-season. How realistic they are or whether they talk our chances up (Like King did after Brighton, like Wilson and all our players did after Millwall) and we failed miserably.

Whilst the budget will be key, finishing outside the top 6 will ultimately be a regression regardless.

I do fear...however...in 5, 10 and even 15 years time we will all look back on this season and continually think 'what if'

Lets be honest, turn the year, we were on form, the league was weak and were looking a bloody good bet for promotion. Dont think there will be a weaker L1 for many years. I hope this wasnt our one shot.

Are you really claiming that the squad Kmac had available was just as strong as that available to PDC?

If so, that must mean you think Ritchie was shit and should have been sold sooner and that PDC was pissing away money when he signed Hollands, Martin and Bostock on loans. Plus it would mean PDC was talking shit when he said he needed to strengthen the squad shortly before he left?

The only thing I have claimed is that all those players werent all available up to the day Di Canio left and then all of a sudden not available the second KMac got here.

We were still getting results as/after those players were leaving/left.

Again, the Tranmere game had none of those players in it.

It will go away when we next achieve some success.

Picking one game out of a season to prove a point is crazy.

How about we take the three home games over New Year that we won. There was 3-4 players (Hollands, Ritchie, Martin, Bostock) that played who weren't available to Kmac. Without them who is to say we would have won those games, if we hadn't it makes the Tranmere game irrelevant as we wouldn't have been top.

Kmac didn't have as strong a squad available as PDC had. Fact.

We can never prove anything either way so it's a pointless argument.

Pointless argument yes. Perception from some is K-Mac didn't initially play to the remaining squads strengths, which I kind of agree with.

But no stat in the world is going to prove it to be true or false, unless we find infinite parallel universe. Then we can compare PDC staying v KMac going 4-4-2, v KMac going 4-5-1. I think we'd be hard pushed to fins another universe in which Ferry was played on the right though :)

Are people forgetting that Chris Martin was terrible? Still don't know how he got a move on loan to Derby after he left us!?

And Bostock was a bench warmer.

All I have said is, those players didnt all leave exactly the same time Di Canio did. Its not like Di Canio had a 33 man squad up until the day he left and then when KMac got here he had a 14 man squad.

Yes, Di Canio has a stronger squad, yes it got progressively worse but it was still getting results, good results. At Tranmere there was no Martin or Bostock or Hollands or Ritchie or Devera or TAH! and we still got a result.


....and do we really miss Bostock or Martin?

They appear to be signing him on a permanent contract now.

Still trying to figure out how he even managed to score a couple for them too!

I think he was largely half fit. We would have tried to keep him (cash permitting) had Derby not turned his head. So PDC saw something in him.

He also saw something in Ibrahim Atiku and Ronan murray!

Damn, fair point..

I think its safe to say that Paolo was (is) a good manager, however his judgement of players is not great, although saying that its not actually clear whether it was actually him or Spencer who was picking the players.

He would benefit from a good scout (King - now that would be a marriage in heaven), which is all the more ironic as the scouting network seems to be what he seeks to remove at every club he goes to - possibly the way of hiding a short coming he knows he has.

Its simple - before KMac we had money, a decent sized squad, after we had no cash, injuries and general chaos behind the scenes, I think most of the criticism of him is that we are no longer Paolo Di Canio's Swindon Town which seems to have been a key driver for some, the fact that it was slowly bleeding the club dry seems to have been less of an issue.

Something the new manager my well have to overcome at man united