Thetownend.com

MacDonald's budget blow
           
           


  KEVIN MacDonald has hinted that budget cuts may influence how contracts are awarded at Swindon Town over the summer months.

           

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/10368756.MacDonald_s_budget_blow/?ref=rss
           
           
           

So the future of the players is not in their own hands,  :hmmm: :hmmm: Didn't someone suggest that yesterday? I wonder who that was  ;)


Even if we get promoted I can see a lot going as either not being good enough or still to costly for the income we have, unless you want £100-200 lumped on a ST to compensate for the reletively small crowds we would get in relation to most of the other championship clubs.

Here we go.

So just how does cutting a League 1 budget sit with getting promotion to the Championship.

Either way - next season we are fucked

Was this ever really a big surprise?

Perhaps one of the reasons why the board didn't say anything.

Look KR, i'm the negative fall guy here, piss off.   ;)

I think that some people might be over reacting here. It doesn't say 'how much' less does it.

I see they waited for 5000 saps to buy their STs before releasing this little nugget.

How motivating it must be for the players to try and kick on for the play-offs and beyond - you've just got to ask why come out with this now.

And what happened to that statement that the new board's budget would remain the same.

Perhaps they actually said budgie

Well, if it wasn't much less, it wouldn't warrant a mention.

Instead of moaning all the fucking time why don't you put your own money in or round up another 5,000 paying customers

Because like our current board, I don't have a pot to piss in.

I also do not know any dodgy fuckers who do

Well said.

No not a surprise, something that had to happen without a benafactor. Disappointing it came out on such an important match day though. Not blaming Sam mind (its clearly al Chris Wise's fault :) ).

One issue though, the budget shows no sign of being anywhere near what Jed said it would be:

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10250965.Robins__new_chairman_says_kitty_will_be_handled_with_caution/?action=complain&cid=11327442

Anyway, I think it shows this could be our last hope of "spending" our way to the Championship. Mac will have his work cut out next season.

Even with a cut budget, it should still be higher than half the teams in League One. Look at Walsall and Yeovil and even Brentford. (crap attendances)

Tranmere.

Agreed! It should be no real surprise that our massive budget was going to have to be slashed. League 1 is generally pretty pants so even with a cut we should be able to maintain a top 10 finish should we not make it to the championship.

KR and fatbasher - the cheerleaders of doom.

To be fair it IS all rather gloomy, don't you think.

Of course, it doesn't help with the constant comparisons with what we had with PdC and the vision, and what we have now.

Fans' expectations had been raised so fucking high and now they at look what has replaced the dream - nightmare scenario of owners who appear distinctly dodgy and the fall back iinto nothingness.

Worse case scenario.

Fuck me I've stumbled onto thisis

The old budget wasnt sustainable, a reduced budget makes absolute sound business sense

I can't say I'm filled with optimism and my concerns far outweigh the positives at the moment but I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of running the club in a more sustainable manner and if that means budget cuts then so be it. I don't want to be in the position we've been in before.

The vision, the expectations, the fallout/expenditure of Di Canio was well beyond this club and was entirely down to one benefactor. I personally don't want us to be reliant on a benefactor as it invariably turns to shit when they get bored/lose interest.

It's just that yourself and fatbasher seem to revel in some kind of gleeful misery every time there's a new stick to beat the board with.

Everyone has missed the real crime in that article - Aden Flint on the radar of Championship clubs! :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Well maybe the fans that fell for the high expectations need to realise that the "dream" under PDC was always going to be unsustainable.

At the risk of being labelled a doom monger, I have to agree with this.

If by some chance we're in the Championship, cutting the budget is obviously not going to help our chances of staying there. Vice versa, if still in League 1, based on the fact we've failed to get automatic promotion this time around, I imagine it will be harder with a lesser budget?

It's no great surprise, as it's been fairly clear for a while the Board have no money.  I'm not sure of the value of releasing an article like this before the end of the season though with important games still to play.  It just causes more unsettlement and runs the risk of players thinking 'fuck it, I've had enough of this crap'.

Seems like the next couple of seasons are going to be settling for mid table medicrocy or struggling to stay up. 

What would you rather? The club borrow money they have no means of paying back on a gamble? They find a wealthy individual and persuade him into throwing money into a bottomless pit until he or she realises that it's more hassle than it's worth and decides to pull out?

The fact is that the previous system was not sustainable and Black had been looking for a way out for a long time.

There's plenty of clubs who have done quite well under tight financial constraints.

If we go up, the budget should be increased otherwise it could get embarrassing. To cut the budget after promotion really would be 'mickey mouse' and a lack of ambition.

Doom mongerer, welcome to the club. You are officially number three on the membership register.

Are you going to put the money in?

I think that's what they are holding fire on. Until we know what league we're going to be in they won't be able to assess costs/budgets. Crowds and TV money will be higher in the championship so the budget probably won't need to be reduced but I doubt it'll be increased. L1 on the other hand is a different story and the budget will have to be cut.

I'm not the man in charge of the football club who promised 'significant funds'.

Just seen the post above from Bhaji - my thoughts exactly. I can understand a budget cut in League 1 but not if we go up.

Just because the budget is reduced doesn't mean the new budget wont require "significant" funding, it ain't cheap runnig a club

I am absolutely pi**ed off with this slow drip, drip, drip of negativity coming out of the boardroom regarding the playing side of things.

It is painfully obvious to me that Jed and his merry crew jumped into this without any real idea of what was involved in running a football league team, and whatever "due diligence" was carried out it still seems to have caught them out and cold reality now seems to be hitting home.

Timing, like so many things in life, is of the essence and the timing of this latest little release stinks. I have renewed my season ticket on the basis of moving forward, albeit at perhaps a slower pace than of late and may now be lumped together with the other 4500 as being very naive.

 :hmmm:

Oh dear, some of you can't seem to grasp irony, piss taking (self deprecation) and a few home truths. I also suspect that some of you have gotten out the rose tinted glasses a little to early.

So let me explain, please.

1) The Wembley thing is my stand/protest at the extortionate prices charged for wembley appearances based on the greed of the FA/FL and the well supported mantra that the fans always will pay, cause we do. Nothing to do with the club i love.

2) I have three ST's and I go to away games, again I think I spend enough following the town.

3) I loved Di Canio, like pretty much everyone else. It got the club noticed and back on the map and we had some cracking times did we not? I knew, like you that it would all end either in tears or in some other spectacular way and so it came to pass but not quiete how i expected.

4) You will not find a more loyal and positive suppporter of this my/our club.

5) Friday. "Adver News. MacDonald tells the players their future is in their hands", and I responded with a yes flippant comment but with a massive ring of truth, low and behold....

6) Saturday. "Adver News. MacDonalds budget blow" Well fcuk me, what a surprise. You couldn't make it up and I couldn't miss the opportunity.

7) I warned everyone back in the autumn that there would be a price to pay if, if, we got promoted and the crux of the matter (forget black and his money or lack of) was that we did not have the fan base, capacity or self financing income to compete with the championship. If you went to Sheffield last Saturday like I did you'll see what I mean.

8) Premiership? No thanks, I don't watch it at home on Sky so why would I bother coming to SN1 to watch a bunch of overpaid mercanries pretending to love the club they play for (yeah it goes on in the lower leagues I know) and we've had a nasty taste of how shit it can be and the cost that comes with it with Di Canio & Spencer fleecing lowly Swindon. Did you know Spencer was taking 10K a month out of the club? or was it a week? And Di Canio and his backroom team milking us for £1m per annum?

9) I said at the beggining of LAST season before a ball was kicked in anger we would get promoted. I said it again at the beggining of this season. Until you know who fcuked off we were nailed on champions again. There, that's positivity for you. I hope we win today. Good old negative doom gloom and downright Victor Meldrew Fatbasher will be cheering all the way.

10) Lastly, I think the play off's will be two games to far sadly. If I'm wrong Jed & Co. can lord it up at Wembley with the knobs from the FA & FL at everyone's expense. We win great, we lose, always next season. But I refer you to point's 5 & 6. Enjoy today I will, honestly even if we loose funnily enough, cause that's the best bit about being a town fan, you never know. In the PL you know every week and season don't you?

 COYR COYR COYR

Why do you have 3 season tickets? Are you really as fat as your username suggests?

No, I have three brains, you only have one, try using it.

The budget was always going to be smaller next season. We've gone shit or bust this season, and it's looking like we'll end up bust (so to speak).

To be honest PDC needs to have a long look at himself. A budget of £4.5 million should have had this league wrapped up by christmas

Yes and no. We're not the only ones who have a big budget this season. Donny, Bournemouth and Sheff U have wage bills that are fairly large.  I dread to think what Bournemouth's finances are like at the moment. If you thought ours were unsustainable then theirs must be worse.

Granted the quality in the league is poor and there are teams like Walsall, Yeovil and Tranmere who have had a good crack at it on a small budget this season.

Oooh, burrrn.

I'm currently recuperating in the burns unit.

It doesn't matter whether you are a doom-gloomer or happy clapper, I think everyone realises the wasted opportunity the club had for real progress.

Yes, I agree most people knew the PdC rollercoaster wouldn't last but I don't think we thought that Black et al would also high-tail it quite so quickly.

It is this sticks in my throat and the fact we've been lumbered with a motley crew for the foreseeable future

 Nothing here, which wasn't already obvious.

So we're out of the playoffs then?

Shit, didn't know that

Progress doesn't just mean getting promoted this season - I meant long term progress.

With the news of budget cuts whatever league we are in doesn't inspire confidence for next year if we are in the Championship

Progress will come in the form of new income streams, which would mean we could sustain larger budgets.

Running up massive debt IS NOT progress

Indeedy.

Just a quick thought.

If they slash the £4.5m budget in half (whether that figure is feasible I don't know), surely £1m of that would be the saving of PdC and his entourage's salaries/fees (agents)

Add to that the reported £1m income from the proposed concerts and it almost covers that reduction

So why does the playing budget need to be cut

So now we're going by figures that you've just plucked from the air?

It was mentioned by a journalist who gets paid to print stuff that people will find interesting!

They said the concerts would be worth £1m annually

The Black budget for this season was £4.5m

Bit of a guesstimate for the salaries/fees but seems probable to me

Anything else I've plucked??

Do you really think that we will show a profit of £1m from six concerts?  I don't and I believe a lot of people were and still are sceptical about those figures.  We actually didn't sell out the Elton John concert and it was my understanding at the time that the profit made was actually on catering and bar receipts - and that came to about £40,000!

I'm sure when the subject has been discussed before most have agreed that sustainability is the only way to guarantee long term stability at a club like Swindon.

Although it would be great to have someone spend tens of millions propelling us up the league's that bill has to be met by someone and we can't expect it.

If this is a step towards the club spending what it earns it at least decreases the likelihood of us going bust again which surely no one wants to see.

As it is with our attendances compared to the rest of league 1 if they can generate some extra revenue streams from other avenues there's no reason we shouldn't be able to compete for a promotion place without the need for £4.5m warchests.

That the budget will be halved is something you just made up, as was the salary for PDC et al.

I did quote the £1m figure as income, not profit

So where are these other 'income streams' coming from?

Wow, this is difficult.

I meant if the budget was cut in half it would be covered by the concerts/wages and fees paid.

Did we not spend £500,000 on fees alone to Spencer last year

Sorry if already mentioned but perhaps the 1.2 million that needed to be ringfenced will have to be deducted from the budget for a start?

try doubling it.

I have no idea how much went to Spencer but it's not a reasonable assumption to cut that amount out of the budget altogether- we will use other agents instead of him who may be cheaper, but we're not suddenly going to cut every penny of that expenditure (particularly as I believe Spencer now represents a fair few of our players).

I'm not sure that bandying figures, that we haven't a clue about helps much.  What we do know is that spending has been out of control, and needs to be curtailed. We also know that means getting the wage bill in line with the 60% cap, which is normally achieved by moving on higher earners where possible, and preferably prudent player sales...avoiding if at all possible a fire sale.

True, but also we aren't going to have spend a whole shedload of money paying off useless players.

What I'm trying to get at is that with the PdC era gone a good proportion of this year's £4.5m would be saved just by him and the others not being here operating in the way they did.

Natural reduction I'd call it.

I'd pay Roberts off.

well said. We don't know what reduction means.

Anybody know what our break even point is roughly?

I did try to work it out myself but unlike fabasher I have only one brain and the one I do have is currently suffering from a rather acute hangover.

Back in the Sir Seton Wills days I seem to remember the break even crowd figure being touted as approx 7500. With ticket prices that are around the same as then, but increased player wages (I'm assuming), the break even must be loads higher now.

I think Jezza Wray once said that breakeven was around 10,000 attendance.

And therein lies the crux of the matter, with the cost of modern football (player wages etc even at our level) it just doesn't work sustainably and until something quite huge happens (I don't know what) it never will.

We lived way beyond our means for around 18-24 months and we got a taste of being in many's eyes a 'big team' (some of the comments during that period on forums were embarrsingly Leedsesque), and now the shock of returnig to our level is happening.

Say we play an average of 28 games at home a season (inc cups) and our average crowd is say 7,500, averaging ticket prices to £20 (I know some are higher some lower, season tickets etc) that comes in at around £4.2m a year ticket revenue - it just doesn't ass up does it. As noted above if break even if 10k crowds we are operating around 20-25% below that.

The new board worry me on a number of levels, but until they actually answer some questions I don't know what to think or speculate. Many fans seem to be angry that they a) won't throw £5m a year at the club just to sustain it and b) want some form of return on investment or a salary?

The whole thing does look ever more shambolic but what else do we have sadly, Black was going and no one else was there were they....

Well said Reg and well done for outing things in context. Who do we have to pay off as being useless then KR? (I'll ignore the Roberts comment as Chalkies Shorts is paying for him).

I was referring to the players brought in by PdC in his early days, Easyjet, Magera,  Kerrouche and others I can't even remember now, who all had to be paid off

That sort of expenditure wont be needed again

NO IT DOESN'T WE'RE GOING TO BE STARTING WITH BEDWELL IN GOAL IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP NEXT SEASON AND NO RECOGNISED FIRST TEAMERS. WE ARE FUCKED. THE END IS NIGH.

Ahhh, ok my bad. I misread amongst the seemingly endless posts of speculation and conjecture.

I'm not sure why everyone goes mental when this sort of stuff comes out.  The club accounts tell us all we need to know.

Under the SSW regime, we slashed costs as much as possible but had no income outside of match day sales (with season ticket sales around the 2k mark).  By the time Fitton and Wray came in we were losing around £2m a season which extended to £3m when they started putting in place new budgets.  This was done on the basis that new income streams were found, and in fact they managed it for the first time in 20 odd years.

A lick of paint, some new tables and chairs and imaginative season ticket deal meant we pushed out income levels up to around £5m-£6m in a year.  Unfortunately, the costs of running the club were still too high and for the past 3 or 4 years we have been losing £1m-£1.5m a year still (the only year of profit was on player sales) on normal trading.  Once the player sales dried up, and small increase in wage budget was given for PDC, you can imagine that stretching back out towards £2m and the next accounts will probably reflect that.  This is all in the public domain.

So, we sold Ritchie and the new board confirmed they'd keep the budget in place for this season.  It was pretty inevitable that next season we'd have to reduce wage spending if we were in this league again - for a start, we won't be allowed to spend what we did this year as we can't add equity into the equation like we did this year.

Basically, in L1 we will lose upwards of £1.5m if we spend like we have this year.  That needs addressing.  Kerry, we might make some money from concerts and we won't spend on PDC, but that all still adds up to a £1m loss.  We cannot afford it.

Finally, if we are in L1, just having a £1m reduction in the wage bill does not equal a backwards step or a lack of ambition.  At least two of the clubs above us would had lower wage bills this season and plenty sniffy at the edge of the play offs are well below what we could spend even allowing for a bit of an adjustment.

If we go up, I'd assume a lot of number crunching would be needed.  We will not be able to get anywhere near the other clubs wage bills, so we shouldn't try.  The best chance of staying up would be to try something completely different as it seems the out of ordinary works for a while as other clubs can't get their heads around it.  Ossies team for example played a formation and style not seen in the league before and it worked, but then everyone worked out his style as his time at Spurs went on and he and it were dropped.  Hoddle went for the 5-3-2, same thing happened and he took it to Chelsea and had some success with a few clubs copying for a while, again it got found out and adapted to.  So, we could keep wages down, do something out of the ordinary and build from that, just got to keep on changing, which is the tough bit.  If we hang on in there for a couple of seasons, we have a club that could adapt and grow like Swansea, if we spend too much doing the same old things, everyone else will be better at it with bigger budgets and we'll be back in L1 pretty sharpish.

£3m loss in the 2011/2012 season Rob.

I think you're spot on about everything. Can't believe some people want the new board to throw money at us, especially after the last ownership almost ended in administration.

I don't think people want them to chuck money at the club - just have enough to run it properly whilst giving us, the fans, a glimmer of a hopeful future

The board shouldn't have to 'have enough money to run it'. Expenditure should ideally be based on revenue, making the board's wealth irrelevant.

It's their ability to generate revenue and maximise the available budget that should really be the focus.

Agreed.

When we hit the unexpected with the transfer tribunal fees being payable in one season rather than two, we were able to cope because there was a pot to piss in.  

Robert Ts post was great but whilst we all go on about what will happen when the Muff Chairman takes his money back, it seems to me that owners without dosh want to take money out of the club by awarding contracts to themselves and their mates.  

So my fear is that something like a summer concert will see board members earn money for themselves and that STFC may underwrite the risk of a loss etc.  Only a fear but I don't trust a board that won't talk

The reduction of the budget is no surprise and reflects the realities of lower league football, my concern is that I remain far from convinced that the current owners have the competence or nous to run a relatively successful club on a tight budget.

The issue I have is not a reduced budget but the Board saying budgets would remain the same, waiting for the vast majority of ST sales to be sold and then talking about reduced budgets. I'm not actually giving them credit for being devious, more likely completely clueless. 

Or, like most wide boys tend to, Jed simply told everyone what he thought they wanted to hear.

Or they were only talking about this season....