Thetownend.com

Paolo Di Canio's former coaching staff waiting on Swindon wages
     

Swindon's former coaching staff say they have not been paid money owed to them since ex-manager Paolo Di Canio left the club.
     

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21704976
     

So they did quit after the Tranmere game, which blows apart PDC's claim they were still employed when they broke in to the club.

 :zzz:

Of course the only thing to do was go to the BBC with this.

I forget who's doing a smear campaign, Swindon or the Italians?

A messy divorce.

All seems a bit petty doesn't it. Probably a very simple explanation for it all.

Cannot believe they have gone public with this, seven days late with final salary. Must need the money desperately, I'm sure they weren't paod much..........

They they tendered their resignation the morning after. The club have not said when they accepted them, nor if the delay is due to legal wrangling.

""We have our family and we need to be paid for what we did."

Which is true, and if someone says you will be paid by X then you should be. But if the money is that tight then don't strop off in the first place. And maybe give it more than a week before going to the press.

yawn.

They can all fuck off

I was expecting something far more scathing.

They are entitled to money that they have earned and if it takes going to the press to get it, then I don't blame them.

They should have just got Graham Turner to mention it within his programme notes.

I agree. But I think going to the press after a few days when it could all be sorted behind closed doors is a bit unnecessary. It doesn't take going to the press. If they're legally entitled to money, they should go to lawyers who will get it for them.

It's completely unnecessary. Just because it's the football industry doesn't mean you have to conduct yourself via the press. If they're entitled then obviously, get it sorted. Running off to the BBC and implying that people are trying to tarnish Di Canio's legacy is not going to resolve anything.

I suppose that there will be something different every other week for the time being.

It's all about keeping PDC's name in the media tho, isn't it?...after all, he hasn't been mentioned in the press for at LEAST 2 days.... :cry: :zzz:

Class  :D

Pay off , wish em luck and fuck off....take a yawn...move on....

1 week overdue is nothing. There will have been a lot of fiddling around behind the scenes changing signatories on accounts etc. Non story.

Nobody is saying they're not entitled to it (except Tans perhaps) just that it's entirely unnecessary to go about it via the press after a week. The remarks about "cancelling" Paolo's work speaks volumes here, there's more to it than the wages.

Indeed. It's not as if there was anything more pressing to do, such as submit the accounts, hire a new manager, etc.

this soap opera is gonig to run and run.............unfortunately. I'm sad Paolo went. I'm grateful for what he did. Its over and the majority of fans have clearly moved on, the club has moved on ,the players look as though they've moved on. The only ones who haven;t are PdC and co. I wish they would and my well of good wishes is running dry very quickly. PdC and co - keep the memories cool not nitpicking pettiness.

This was what i was trying to say... :clap:

While i agree that whinging about it after a week is poor(if in fact they did) the fact is they should be paid up straight away.

I for one thought the back up staff did a good job while the shit hit the fan....Tranmere away was a case in point.

Seems to be a lot of people on here ready to knock the previous regime.....all to there own of course but if you buy a club then the first thing you do is pay all staff who are owed money....whether they are still at the club or not.

Many of them were on good money and could still be here picking up easy money....which would have meant an even heftier pay of by the new regime.

What the new regime had to do more pressing is nothing to do with them.....they dont give a fuck anymore and want there money..........just like you would if you were owed money from a previous job.

People make me laugh.......now if it was them who was owed money they would see it in an entirely different light and would be shouting it from the rooftops also.
You may feel it unnecessary Sonic.....but as i say its not you owed it is it.

The new regime have made a great couple of appointments in my opinion in the new number one and two......but still have a long way to go to convince me especially with the news about Nick Watkins also today.

If someone/a previous employer owed me money, I'd either discuss it with them directly or consult someone better versed in legal matters than myself. But that's just my opinion.

What news about Watkins? He was always going to remain on a short-term basis.

Perhaps they could ask Di Canio for some of that £30,000 he contributed to keep loan players...oh wait...

Could they not have just called Jed and ask where their money is?

If they did ask then surely Jed would have said it will be sorted. So why go to the press?

They should be paid up to the end of their contracts. It's not their fault that the boss quit.

I saw Paolo in Waitrose in Marlborough at lunchtime today.  He bought some pretzel pieces that were on offer, wisely watching the pennies...

No but they chose to resign...

then they should be paid up to whatever their notice was.

Which might be to the end of their contracts.

Why should they be paid up to the end of their contracts? If you resign you're entitled to wages up until you leave employment, not up to the end of a contract you didn't honour. It was thier choice to follow di Canio out the door, not the club's.

Oh dear Ben. What Herthab said I think is how it works. If you resign you're entitled to diddly swat. Why should they be paid their notice period? They didn't work it.

If where I was working had a change in management, and there'd been a complete change in the workings of the business which made me clearly unnecessary, then I wouldn't turn up either, but would still expect my pay off. Even through whatever I was allowed from my own resignation

Fair enough. You could expect what you like. Whether you'd get it is another matter. In this instance, one bloke left and the players still needed coaching (I.e. their jobs) which meant they weren't "unnecessary" so don't think your example really stacks up.

I presume that that they had contracts for a certain period of time, and part of the acceptance of that contract was working under certain conditions. If those conditions completely change then it can be fair to resign and claim the remember of their contracts.

I'm not saying they are right, just that resigning doesn't mean they lose the rest of their wages. If I'm honest, I'm not the biggest fan of the former management regime.

I know you're not Ben. I don't think one bloke leaving means the conditions have completely changed but we'll beg to differ. Not really sure what we're disagreeing about anyway. They're only seeking wages to the date of resignation so obviously don't feel the same as you. They're entitled as most of us would agree. Why go to the bbc is anyone's guess though.

Obviously it depends on the ts & cs of the contract but it would not be unreasonable to assume that given the fickle nature of football management the likelihood of a managerial position changing at short notice would be taken into account when they signed.

It's unlikely that we'll ever see the contract, and I guess this has been made more complicated by PDC's departure. I am slightly guessing here though, but I'm sure it's pretty standard that when a club get's rid of a management team then the coaches get paid off the same as anyone else loosing their jobs.

It does seem a sad symptom of co-ordination of the take-over.

All very true, although we didn't get rid of the management team. They resigned! Makes all the difference surely.

I think we might be going in circles. Even if they all resigned at the same time as PDC, it doesn't mean that they aren't entitled to any or all of their contracts.

Oh dear Ben, you have much annoyance to look forward to in life.

You may well expect that nice pay off, but unless they try to do some pretty extreme things, like give you a good rodgering instead of a 1-2-1, then I'm afraid when you resign all you get is a lovely P45 and a fuck off.  It's a bit like waking up in an alleyway with no clothes on after going on the piss a little too long.

I think what Ben is getting at is that if one party breaches the contract, the other party is entitled to compensation.

I'm not sure there would have been a contract breach, even a change of management clause wouldn't apply as the new directors didn't officially take over until the day after the coaching staff resigned.

Don't be a patronising dick rob. You're better than that. I admit it wasn't the best worded example but it was clearly meant in a similar situation to football management.

If they had given 30 days notice or whatever their contract stated, then they would have a case. As they upped sticks and pissed off with no notice. I would expect the reverse would apply, and they may have to wait. Well it does in the real world anyway.

But that's looking at the contracts and the basics as the contract as the be all and end all, there's some employment law around the edges. 

You can send a letter to your employer saying you wish to resign and want payment for x amount for the rest of your contract. I've done it before for months and holiday pay. They don't have to say yes, that's where it gers legal.

Patronising is my thing.  If you walk, you take the shit that comes with it.  It takes some serious breaches to allow you to just walk out and expect anything, and that usually means a visit to an emplyoyment tribunal, not an interview with a news outlet.  Having your boss leave is not usually one of those serious breaches.

They may be owed to the day they left if we pay in arrears, but not a penny more - and it doesn't even seem like they are claiming anymore than that.

You can serve the notice written into your contract of employment.  The employer can release you and pay off the notice, they owe you nothing else.  You can ask for whatever you like, they owe you what they owe you based on the contract.  If you do not serve notice and just walk, they can withold the notice payment as well, it's up to them to tell you not to turn up.

Not sure how old you are, Ben. That statement comes over as you being stuck in the mind-set of the generation who think that they're entitled to compensation for every fucking thing that goes wrong in life.

PDC's backroom staff made a big thing about their loyalty to their boss (and by implication, didn't give a fuck about the club) when they fucked off after the Tranny game.

Muttering some smart-arsed comment about following PDC to Luton rings a bell....

Whatever, their loyalty clearly wasn't to STFC, to the fans of STFC or to the new STFC consortium, and going to the BBC with the 'story' is a fucking joke which smacks of a lack of class.

If they are still owed money, I'd expect the club to fuck them about and make them wait for it after the way they treated us.

They didn't give a flying fuck when they dropped the club in the shit, so why should the club fall over themselves for a couple of disloyal plebs who are trying to rinse a few more quid?

Fuck em.

There's been a lot of "this sounds like your a generation of...." and shit like that which I don't appreciate.

Anyway.

Start off with I don't give a fuck about them.

I might be a left wing union bastard, I'm not actually sure if there's a coaching union, but it might be covered by the PFA.

If i'd been taken on by a management to do a job, but then the management and job change, as well as my position being actively replaced, then YES I would feel in my rights to fight for fair resignation with a good pay off. The fact that none of you would be is why all our work conditions are so shit.

I don't think the fact they've not received their wages is the issue here at all. The decision to go public with this after only a week and the following:

"We put a lot of work into the club and people must know that those who worked for the club, and left them at the top of the table, have not been paid by the new consortium.
"This is something not only wrong but also unfair. We gave everything for the cause, even if people try to cancel what Paolo Di Canio did.
"We have our family and we need to be paid for what we did."

Another instance of labouring the point that they left us at the top of the league, furthermore if it's just the backroom staff that hadn't been paid, why bring Di Canio into it? I'm going to assume that the "our family" bit refers to the staff as a group, due to the implication that it is the family that need to be paid.

I'm left with the impression that this is just further ammunition to use against the club if Di Canio does decide to do so. I feel uneasy at his silence since the legal action story broke as he was very swift to respond to everything prior to that.

Or you could read it as Di Canio didn't give a fuck about any of his staff when he quit, and now they're using his name in the media because, well, it gets in the media.

No offence intended by my comments about your generation, Ben. Just pointing out that a whole generation are currently growing up within the something-for-nothing / compo / ambulance chasing no-win-no-fee lawyers culture, which is distorting reality a tad.

Moving on...

Their boss was effectively calling out the club, or the potential new owners of the club at the time.

The gamble failed. Spectacularly.

PDC blinked first.

The remaining backroom staff were under contract with the club, presumably.

They either breached their contracts by quitting, or terminated them prematurely by doing so.

I would be amazed if they had a clause in their contracts which entitled them to walk away with a fat cheque in the event that their boss ever lost a game of bluff with his employer.

Work and employment conditions in this country is a whole new discussion mate ;-)

Even if you are made redundant Ben, all you are entitled to is a bag of pork scratchings.

Nothing wrong with being a left wing commie.  It's like being a right wing christian fundamentalist with feelings.

The beginning is obviously a debate for another thread, however tempted I am to call you out on it.

Where I disagree with your post is where you say "They either breached their contracts by quitting, or terminated them prematurely by doing so".

As I said up above, you can say what you want in a contract, but untenable working situations ( which I pointed out with the big 3 of: management change, owner change, actively looking for replacements ). Then you should have a way out, paid.

Maybe if they wanted the workers rights I'm sticking up for, then they shouldn't have chucked their luck in with such a fascist?

Management change: Tough shit. Get used to it. Doesn't entitle either side to quit on employment contract.
Owner Change: Look up TUPE laws.
Actively looking for replacements: AFAIK, the club were not looking to replace the back room staff, were they? It was just the manager.

As far as you know the club weren't looking to replace the backroom team?

Is that a realistic statement to make? Did the new board, the old board, di canio, the team themselves, or the fans, expect anything different? We all new they were gone.

It was also a bit unnecessary when someone at the club went to the press and informed them that PDC had broke into club, so they can hardy be surprised when the favour is returned, you reap what you sow.   

They are owed ,pay them .

This. And only this.

I think you're jumping to all sorts of assumptions in regard to their contracts Ben. Even the staff themselves are only asking to be paid up to the day they worked.

And if there was any sort of case to answer I pretty sure they wouldn't be backward in coming forward either.

Just pay em and that's that!

I'm not sure.

Seriously, I'm rarely on the side of an employer in cases like this, but if you walk out of a job on a days notice because you decide you don't like it anymore, then you can fucking wait until the next payroll run for your money.

classic lumps, sticking up for the capitalist overlords.

I presume that the money for wages would have been budgeted for so they should be paid up until the end of February (or weekly) but in light of the cash flow situation would there be enough money in the kitty to pay up contracts?

 :hmmm:

What cash flow situation?

The need for Ritchie's transfer to get money into the club for wages etc. plus still in an embargo situation strikes me as being a cash flow problem.

 :hmmm: Not sure how to respond without sounding sarcastic

Not like that :)

To my mind if you walk out and stick two fingers up to your employers you shouldn't be too surprised when your former employers give you two fingers back and dispute what's actually owed to you...

 ;D

Could they have been in breach of contract by walking out?
Quitting a job then expecting to be paid is a bit of a cheek really.

So if you quit your job you wouldn't expect to be paid for the time you worked up to quitting?

if I gave notice and followed the correct procedure then yes.
Did they do that?

I would expect to get paid up until the day I worked and I expect this lot to also.

It is a bit one sided really though. If a club sacks a manager/staff they have to be paid up but if a manager/staff walk out then there is no recompense.

I suppose that's just the way it has to be though really.

If I phoned up my work and said 'that's it i'm not coming in anymore' then how could i expect to be paid up until yesterday?
Just because i had worked until then doesn't mean they should pay up if i choose to walk out.
People cannot just demand pay after quitting a job with immediate effect.

Exactly.
This is why a period of notice is written into contracts. 

The Italians really have undone all of their good work. Slam the door and shout fuck off through the letterbox.

Which can be waived if the employer and employee agree to. Or the employee can be put on gardening leave. Either way they are owed the money and should have been paid when it was agreed it would be.

Quite why they are gobbing off to  the press after a week  is anyone's guess. They'll be disappointed if they are looking for sympathy.

 :zzz:

Oh, so we're still talking about team Di Canio? Back to

 :zzz:

If they have breached their contracts then they are owed nothing

Soemthing about this story has been nagging at the back of my mind.

I have left a few jobs in my time, and have always had to wait until the next general wages run for that company to get paid any balance. No company is going to bend over backwards to do a separate run of bank transfers.

So, in classic 2+2=5 style, does the non-payment of the Italians mean that none of the staff or players were paid?

I am not suggesting there are any big problems. I have no idea how the business side of a football club is structured, or what paperwork would have been involved in updating signatories/responsible officers etc.

Or alternatively, they could be owed up to the breach. Or not breached the contract at all. Or the club could be disputing something with them. Who knows!

If we still in um-bungo and this is ongoing issue is also ongoing due to non payment this time next week, then maybe that's the time to wonder!

True. All possible of course.

I'm sticking with my interpretation that this is all just to keep his name in the press.

edit: the decision to go so public with this, not the fact they're owed money that they have every entitlement to

Well another 6 pages of 'team Di Canio' therefore I suspect that the true objective of the story has been met in keeping people talking, the deluge of job offers I suspect were expected seems to have been somewhat quiet.

As people have said its simple, if they resigned on the day after the Tranmere match they should be paid to that date, if they had a notice period in contract but club decided that they should go before that was up then should be paid to end of notice period during which I would assume they would not be allowed to work anywhere else.

However anything above this they can go whistle. I havent seen anywhere it stated that they were asked to resign or forced out, you chose to resign and follow your leader (who others suggested (citing sources) on here previously tried to get rid of Piccareta) the fact that Paolo left is irrelevant, to suggest that just as he left and they felt they didn't want to work here anymore means there contracts should be paid up in full is either naieve in the extreme or just trolling.

We move on, so should they although I suggest that until another appointment is secured this will just continue to trickle along.

Oh and thinking about a little more.... I wonder who their agent is?

Coincidentally does he represent any of the players?