Thetownend.com

Lot of unread items for me this morning.

Can someone please summise so far who are the good guys and who are the bad guys in all of this?

Thanks

jesus is good

This is my take:

- PDC. A mad looney nutter, who 'according to some' was very demanding. In my opinion, one of the greatest managers we've had. Bad guy for leaving us like he did and his actions, but good guy for getting the club where we are.

- Black. Good guy as he sold the club with no debt. Plowed loads of wonger into the club. Bad guy for his timing.

- Patey. Unsure. Don't know what to make of his actions to be honest. Him and Di Canio never got on.

Phil Spencer - cunt of the highest standard

why's that?

have you never watched Location, Location, Location?

Black is a good guy and has lost his friends and a fucktonne of cash and tried to walk away numerous times before this.
Fitton could have seen the club go to the wall.
Paolo is a cunning master thief who breaks into buildings using his own key.
Patey is riding off into the sunset looking like this:

[url width=290 height=189]http://i.imgur.com/HAg2iBO.gif[/url]

You know who I feel sorry for?

Nomoreheroes. His translation of PDC's post match rants were key to the Match Day Thread.

Sadly he is no longer needed :(

We still need someone to decipher Jed's tweets.

Maybe he could do a presentation of what he thinks Paolo would have said post matches?

it's these kind of digs that make me cringe.

you don't dig digs do you?!

he doesn't mock turtles then?

I find it a bit (tom) petty.

Black - Good but weak
Paolo - Good but a fucking loon
Patey - who's Patey?
Phil Spencer - Fucking cunt nugget

Oh and..

Jedidiah Swinfield - Status pending...

I am slightly perplexed by the Paolo good, Spencer bad arguments, are the two not essentially directly linked and one and the same?

I would say its easy to decipher them! Bollox bollox and more bollox

You really don't like him do you? Are you a STFC fan or just an anti-Jedite?

From almost every post so far I would say :fishing:

Or a pox fan?

I think he is a muppet!! and yes I don't like him as a person, if he helps the town to succeed then great but all I would say he likes thing his way and if not then to him your gone!, I've know him a long time and wouldn't let him near anything....and yes I'm a town fan so I'm concerned what's going on behind the closed doors!! I was highly surprised when he brought swindon and was shocked too...mark my words he aint in it for the football there will be another motive believe me!!!!

what is your connection to him?

It's clear he is close to Jed. Very similar grasp of grammar.

an old firend? or a former friend?

so you know him personally? or in a business capacity?

you ask too many questions!!as I have said long lost friend....and he ain't to be trusted!!

rightyo then.

What does 'long lost' friend mean exactly?

knew him long time ago was a pal but we went separate ways!

scorned lover :)

And you are...?

One would suggest not from posts so far, a Poxford fan obviously.

your so clever! Is it rocket science your into?

Sounds like Paolo

You're, it's you're

Better to be into rocket science than into little boys as you would appear to be, nonce. Fuck off back to the Yellows forum please.

that's right clever boy! Your brains are amazing.. Only trouble is I'm true red and white fan and hate the yellows

Course you are, toddle off back to Headington or Blackbird Leys like the a good little boy you fucking shitcunt.

So why register just to come and post about Jed? And why wait until the takeover was completed?

You're not.

Never heard a Town fan call the pox 'the yellows'. Obviously a WUM. A shit one at that.

I did a gig at Oxford academy last week and put poxford academy on the stage times and passes. I got a shitty email from the manager. It amused me.

Ha ha.

It's amused me as well, good work.

I bet you're still choking on that statement and are at this very moment hacking up a furball encased in feathers, "I'm true red and white" my arse you are.

Pox were never The yellows....they were and still are just c#nts.... :D

going back to the good guy/ bad guy , i dont know if this has been mentioned before but itwas said on sunday supplement this morning that paolo was on £450.000 a year and on the back of The People that he asked for a pay rise and thats why he left .

edit: just seen on next manager thread , sorry

I've come to the conclusion Paolo is the bad guy in all of this. No so much for his recent actions but more for the lasting damage I feel he has done to the club and people associated with it.

- We've lost our backers and they've had a massive falling out amongst themselves.
- Criticism of the new backers (from some people at least).
- The criticism of Paul Bodin and our youth policy.
- Dividing the fans worse than any other manager I can recall.
- Bad press for the club related to the potential administration, massive agent fees etc.
- An increasingly negative view of the club from the rest of the football world, especially other fans.
- The damage to the careers of numerous players.

I appreciate not all of that is 100% his fault but I'm sure there is plenty of other stuff bad things (and, to be fair, some plusses).

Personally I don't think it was worth it. Sure it was fun and gave the club a shot of adrenalin but it will be a while before the club as a whole is able to move on from the Paolo era and put it behind us.

Results have been fucking spot on though.

Which is what he was paid to do.

At the end of the days negative press, his opinions on Paul Bodin, the future career paths of players whom couldn't hack his methods and most of of all what other fans think of us have absolutely no significance on where we finish or would have finished under Di Canio...

you could argue that we've only ended up where we started in 09/10.

While I didn't agree with some of the points entirely, I can understand where you are coming from.

I think though that the above point wasn't correct until the recent events. Yes there were a few that openly didn't like his political views, there were also a few that didn't like some of the points you raised to the point of not liking the man. But I'd argue the vast majority were completely united behind the manager until he walked out on us.

In fact I'd go as far as saying up to that point he was one of the most universally liked managers we've had. And I think DV is right, the results are key.

One thing that was never tested was whether this would have held up if he'd truly had a bad spell results wise. There was the beginning of the League 2 season, but other than that its all went as well as it could really, JPT final aside.

From all us Oxfordshire Reds Mate.

Indeed but that hasn't got much to do with Di Canio as it wasn't him that took us two steps back in the first place.

Plenty of teams take that step back and don't come right back up.

& the argument would have no substance as that was pre-Di Canio.

Black disappointed me the way he "could" have put us into meltdown with administration and selling all of our assets.

Paolo was god in my eyes (yes biased and blinkered view). It just still feels a massive void. The last 18 months have just been fantastic and "Swindon experience" just tells me that now we go down hill. Of course I hope not. I guess that the last 18 months have just been one of the all time highs.

Having met PDC a few times (feel very lucky) and talking STFC he is just one amazing character.

One story to share was his view on Stevenage (When they were near the top of the league and we still had to play them). He shared a discussion on them, questioning their players habits, they were trying to organise a players party. He seemed to know a lot about them. He was scathing. They will fall, wait and see, Oliver (Risser) hates it there, I want to play them now, today...........Few weeks later 4-0 and they start to fall.
Coincidence but a few chats I have had just have a bad habit of actually happening.

He wanted STFC to follow Brighton and Southampton.......He was impressed by their Clubs building blocks and ideas for sustainability. He wanted this for Swindon.

He openly admited he made made mistakes and has learnt from them.......
I have never met anyone who can talk like him and get so excited and passionate about football.
It must be a very quiet place now he has left the building.

Onwards and Upwards though, but still missing the era. Of course in time it will pass.

Paolo was a fantastic manager for us and exactly what the club needed to haul it out of league 2 and take it to the top end of league 1. I thought it could be a disaster appointment but I was wrong.

However, leaving us when we're in our position, having always stated that he had a job to finish, preaching about loyalty etc. - he should have stayed until the end of the season and bowed out properly.

His actions are no different to Leon Clarke being a bit of a cunt for throwing a paddy over the amount of running he had to do.

just when i thought i was getting over him , you come out with that . Thanks mate . What have we done ? :cry:

I still think he was trying to call the old/new owners bluff and it backfired on him big time , no way back for him now tho.

Think a lot of people had major concerns but were willing to put them to one side whilst things were going well. Once the wheels started falling off a few months back more and more people have been voicing those concerns. Plus we've had some of the inside details come out and perhaps it wasn't quite as rosy at the club as we thought.

Whilst I agree about results being key, Wilson achieved pretty much the same in his first season with us without all the baggage and without a major shit storm when he left. Sure he got us relegated but we were able to rebuild quickly with a new manager, not so sure we'll do the same this time - I can see things dragging out until the end of the season and beyond. Which is my point, the lasting effect of PDC isn't a good one.

Good post. I agree that Paolo leaves a massive void and I wish we could rewind and have the opportunity for the last week to play out differently.  When I read Black's criticisms about Paolo being intense and demanding, I just thought they were the qualities I want in a manager. Would Black have preferred Paul Hart?

I don't think we really appreciate just how far the discipline, training methods, organisation and planning have taken the team. Without it, I fear going backwards. I'm also surprised just how quickly so many have moved on. If it was down to me, I'd be doing everything to get him and his team back at the helm. We've just had our debt wiped out so surely debate about his salary is less relevant than ever.

I dont really get what you're saying , on the pitch the wheels have never fell off . PDC might not of been everyone's cup of tea but he certainly delivered Wilson never achieved near as much .Maybe im reading it wrong

This is what worries me. The discipline. He brought this club to a professional level again, high standards on and off the pitch and it rubbed off on everyone. Since I've been going I can't remember another manager who was so influential. He was a workaholic, I don't think fans appreciate this, he worked long long hours, he grafted, was meticulous - yes he was very well paid BUT he left no stone unturned and you saw the results on the pitch, he was a winner, he cared.

He wasn't perfect, quite a few things he did I didn't agree with, I was uncomfortable with bashing of individual players in public, the high turnover of players, the way he lambasted Bodin etc. could've all been kept in house as could the constant moaning about funds and the "umbungo". He was fickle and childish at times BUT I come back to it, look at the results, the performances, the commitment, this wasn't a coincidence, the clean sheets this year and last, it was all due to the drilling, the fitness that Paolo oversaw with his staff. The players bought in to it and it worked.

He'll give me some of the best memories during my time as a Swindon fan, just wish it hadn't ended the way it has.

Paolo's built the foundations, get someone in to carry on where he left off or the best thing to happen to Swindon in two decades will be wasted.

I don't for a second think the two are close, but McMahon walked this league, playing some good stuff and ruled with an iron fist.  Unfortunately, he also ruined the entire foundation of the club behind the scenes, which took years to undo (if we have even managed).  It was a warning that as good as it seems in the first team, you do need an effective Board and Senior Management team to keep the success in check when it comes to the rest of the club.  I think this time we had that clash, and that ultimately has caused PDC to go, I'm still not sure if it will be ok or not, but it seems clear it wasn't sustainable for both parties.  I'll put it down as a fantastic 18 months and hope someone else comes in and build success off the back of it.

I do wonder how Paolo will be perceived in the future when more time has passed and some of raw emotion has gone. How will he compare with our 'greatest managers'.

He certainly revitalised the club and generated interest, enthusiam and passion. He had the opportunity to acheive something only Lou Macari managed i.e. a double promotion but has walked out on that.

Lets not forget that Macari took us from nowhere in Div 4 to the Div 2 (Championship play offs in new money) in 5 years without spending huge amounts of cash and built a team that Ardiles and Hoddle benefiited from. In the modern game it would be difficult to replicate and hold onto players such as Calderwood, Digby, Bodin et al.

Paolo won a title but did so with a lot of financial backing, as did a certain Steve McMahon and he took us to top of the next league in October 1997. McMahon's stock with the fans was high after 1995/96 but it did start to go wrong after selling fans favourites and stating he needed to replace players after bad performances.

Hoddle led us to a promotion to the Premier League 20 years ago this season. He effectively made his mind up not to stay and that Swindon lacked ambition when they sold Kerslake for financial reasons on deadline day. However, he held out to the end of the season and took us to the highest we have ever been. Hoddle took a lot of stick, Judas chants when Chelsea came in December 1993, but when compared with Paolo's departure it look dignified and Hoddle was England Manager in 3 years.

I wonder if Paolo had decided to stay what he could have achieved? Would he done a Macari, would it have fallen apart in anger and fractured relationships like McMahon or would be have taken a big job when it came like Hoddle?

we will never know ( apart from he would of left when a bigger job came along like Hoddle )

I like this.

Have to admit that I feel deflated about it all now. When PDC was here I looked forward to both the match and the shenanigans going on around PDC. The man was (is) a diva! Couldn't wait to hear what he'd been up to and have a chuckle at his mad behaviour.

I don't care that other clubs hate us seemingly because of PDC - fuck 'em - I am only interested in all things Town.
I'm sure I'll get over it but I just feel that the spark has left the club - everything is a bit more mundane and 'ordinary' already.

The reason I particularly enjoyed supporting Town under PDC was because it was all a bit surreal - Champions, Wembley final, beating higher division opposition and coming to expect to beat all-comers - and PDC himself the mad genius. I for one will miss his influence and I have him down as one of my favourite managers alongside Macari, Ardiles and Hoddle......

It's not fair on Black for him to be singled out for criticism over this, which a lot of people are doing. Firstly, he was forced in to pulling the plug financially due to Paolo repeatedly spending the budget and then demanding more money to spend. Secondly, the threat of administration was used to force Fitton in to writing off his loan so the club could be sold debt free.

Paolo wouldn't have been at the club in the first place, let alone achieve what he did if Black wasn't bankrolling it.

I would hope the majority of us are very appreciative of what Black did for STFC , but he should of had the bollocks to stand up to Paolo if he wasnt happy with what was being spent , he would of had a much better argument if PDC  had threw a hissy fit and walked because he stopped him spending rather than him threatening us with bankruptcy.

Except Black asserting more control (replacing Wray) and refusing to fund any more spending was the main reason he threw a hissy fit and walked.


He didn't. He put more money in during January and authorised the Ritchie sale to avoid any financial problems. Nothing to suggest the administration threat was anything more than a message to Fitton about what would happen if he didn't back down.

Paolo's positive attributes are many, particularly the discipline, passion, graft and attention to detail.  No doubt he has achieved all that could be expected and more, and for the fan base it has been a great ride.
But he has been working with more resources than can be sustained so when Black wasn't prepared to bankroll the push any longer, the only options were to work with what is available or quit. In choosing to quit he has left himself open to questions of whether he can deliver when not being allowed to have everything he asks for.
His undermining the youth set-up, I put down to him wanting control of that aspect of the club; as he was kept away from them he can't have caused any lasting damage there.
It seems that Black was over-trusting of JW and wasn't as close to the overspending as he should have been; it's understandable that he decided he wanted out rather than to get involved in arguments about controlling budgets.

Im not going to argue about  Andrew Black because he helped us when we needed it most , but im sure there are things that could of been done differently on both sides to have avoided all of this mess .

That is exactly how I feel, but put a lot more eloquently than I could.
Whoever comes in as manager is going to feel like a backwards step to me, and I can't see anyone continuing with the passion or feel good factor that Di Canio brought to the club.

Yes, it may have felt like a circus at times, but it was our circus, and can you honestly think of anyone else who would run 50 yards to celebrate with the players like he did at Northampton last year, or coming on to the pitch at Oxford to take the piss out of them, that made a defeat feel like a win??
No, nor can I, and I honestly believe that we will struggle to replace him...

Well, there's David Pleat for a start. Maybe we should see if he'd be prepared to set aside his media commitments for a while?

I have to say Black could have and should have said no. Worrying that quote from Black  "I only met him a handful of times."
I guess he trusted messr's Wray and to a much lesser degree Watkins.
One other point (I know sounds obvious but this was fact) it became apparent that both above were in a complete trance over PDC and were sucked in by everything he did. I won't go into detail but I saw this first hand.

Again having spent time with PDC I have to say he is very insecure a little nervous and this is hidden by that positive and "hyper" personality. He is a guy that wants to be loved but very irrational and will do things off the cuff. His playing career simply follows these characteristics.

I believe what has been posted on this thread he called the new owners bluff and it backfired.
I was hoping he would come back but agree again I don't think it will happen. (I would love it to).

Another interesting observation I picked up on a few concerns and rumblings that not all was good as far back as late October. It appears then it started to slide and was PDC against the World. You just get the impression that he liked controversy and confrontation.

A statement will definitely follow when the dust has settled from PDC. He won't go quietly for sure and will make a statement (his version) of the events. Bound to want to leave the Supporters no doubt of his reasons why he went and he will want to thank those "amazing" Supporters.

I know you're not PDCs greatest fan but stooping to comparing him to David Pleat, now that is low ;)