Thetownend.com

Was just reading this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/blog/2013/jan/22/colin-murray-motd2-bbc (http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/blog/2013/jan/22/colin-murray-motd2-bbc)) on the guardian website and it got me a little bit annoyed about the unrealised potential of TV punditry. A list of the current crop of football pundits (with my personal biased opinions on them) would look something like this (accounting for a few omissions):

MOTD:
Gary Lineker- annoying habit of making out every show is a scorcher you simply have to stick around for when Sky Super Sunday's means he's mostly talking up fixture lists of Stoke v Wigan snore-a-thons. otherwise does his job but not nearly worth the money
Alan Hansen - spews out strings of Hansen brand cliches: 'and it's in the back of the net' 'woeful defending,' ' he's got pace, power, technical ability, and the finish to match'. could have been replaced by a robot and cassette player 10 years ago.
Alan Shearer - for the first 2 years of his tenure i could at least fascinate myself by watching the tuft of hair slide a little further back on his head every week but now i don't even have that to look at while he drones on in the background with painfully dull analysis describing literally what is happening 'he passes it to silva, silva plays the one two, he shoots, it's a goal.'
Mark Lawrenson - his moustache contained all his personality. when he shaved it off there was nothing of him left. when he grew a goatee he entered into a state of negative personality where his presence makes it feel like there's less life on your TV screen

Sky Sports:
Gary Neville - the only ex-player who shows the benefits of having a player perspective, and one of the few pundits that attempts analysis beyond describing replays of the goals.
Jamie Redknapp - looks like a generic male model from a stock photo catalogue. can't remember being interested in anything he has said ever. incredible he is still being employed.
Graeme Souness - something about his grim, Scottish, angry no-nonsense 70s ex-footballer approach i find refreshing. will generally come out with an opinion that represents majority fans instead of all these 'diving is now acceptable' pundits jumping on the Gary Neville bandwagon.

SSN
Jeff Stelling - only one out of the whole list that actually knows anything about lower league football.
Merson/ Thompson/ Le Tissier/ Nichols - basically all the same: ex-pros who don't know anything outside their own clubs and beyond that what they read in their tabloid newspapers. it is actually embarrassing when they're forced to cover a game at our level due to FA Cup restrictions and have to give an opinion on a player as if they actually had a fucking clue ('i like the look of him from what i've seen of him Jeff').

ITV:
Adrian Chiles - uglier, more dour Lineker with worse accent and jokes
Lee Dixon - at least attempts some analysis on the 5 minutes he gets on ITV between adverts, but something lurking under the surface about him that stops me from liking him
Gareth Southgate - have seen quite a bit of his punditry without really forming an opinion on him. Maybe a form of opinion in itself
Roy Keane - like Souness except Irish and 90s

Final Score:
Mark Bright - sounds like there's always some burden of stress weighing on his voice that makes listening to him an unpleasant experience.
Martin Keown - looks like a dour gorilla seeing out his last days in a rundown foreign zoo
Robbie Savage - unapologetic self-publicist and wind up merchant who's unable to form basic sentences when that should be an entry level requirement for any pundit. one of the least liked men in football but still appears in every dark orifice of BBC's football coverage offering his opinion
Garth Crooks - as if an alien conciousness had been put in a Midlands man's body and asked to analyse a sport it doesn't fully understand but has observed and nonetheless formed strong opinions about

Football League Show:
Steve Claridge - like all of the above (excepting Stelling) in knowing nothing about the lower leagues, EXCEPT HERE IT'S ACTUALLY HIS JOB TO KNOW ABOUT THE LOWER LEAGUES! FL punditry's Robbie Savage
Maniche - can tell he has no real interest beyond it being his job but still better than Claridge

To bring this back to the Colin Murray story, apparently Shearer was heavily involved in getting him fired on the basis he didn't like a non ex-pro offering forthright opinions about players. But as the list above shows, most ex-players seem to make for very poor analysts; unsurprising perhaps since most basically bypass school and therefore don't learn the basics of analytical thinking necessary in offering broader insights into the longer tactical battle of a football match. What i've often thought is, while these ex-players can make a good appraisal of the quality of a pass, finish or individual piece of skill, they're unable to step back and see the bigger picture of the shape of the game as a whole, which i would find far more interesting as a viewer, especially on a highlights shows where we can already see for ourselves a good pass or finish or piece of skill, but what we can't form is a picture of the game as a whole.

Many of the world's best football tacticians weren't particularly good at football or even ex-pros at all: Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger, Bielsa etc. but it's hard to argue with the fact they know more about football than the players they manage. Yet, when it comes to football punditry, media outlets hire almost exclusively from within the pool of prominent ex-players.

I know this is a very long post, but I find the battle of football tactics fascinating and it's frustrating, in a society so saturated with football, that there's no outlet for that in the media. Part of the reason I love having Di Canio as manager (and something that makes him rare amongst ex-players with high profile footballing careers) is you can tell he's someone who really understands tactics and tries to set up his team differently for each game. For all the post-match nonsense he spouts, there's normally a hidden gem in there where you get a real insight into his methods and approach.

What does everyone else think of the current state of football pundits/ analysis? Any favourite/ least favourite pundits from the current crop?

At risk of offering a bland opinion, all i can really say is: spot on

Plus, this made me  :D

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:  :clap:

That post must have taken weeks to do - fine effort.

So basically, apart from Jeff Stelling and Graeme Souness, football pundits are cunts.

I think I would agree with this. The only assessment I wouldn't agree with is Robbie Savage who I like - he's not afraid to tell it like it is and there's not many who are prepared to do that.

Whoever he is, the Secret Footballer would make a good pundit, but then it wouldn't be a secret.

If you havent already, read the book

Reading that...brilliant start to a Friday morning.  Also couldn't agree more about the general standard of punditry.  There's an opportunity there for someone to revolutionise it.  My particular bug bear is the Lineker/Hansen/Lawrenson/Shearer cabal of 80s/90s ex-pros who should have been moved on 10 years ago.  Instead, they seem to have got the gig for life.

Matt Murray on Soccer Saturday is the definition of rabbit in the headlights.

Indeed...he is carrying on nicely where Dean Windass left off although he is slightly less inept than Windass (that's not saying much).

That summation of Mark Bright is bang on the money

Dean Windass at least made you laugh though. :)

Spot on...

I cannot believe the BBC persist with Chappers and Robbie Savage on 606.... truly shocking fucking stuff. It's almost like they've been told to disagree with any caller in a childish contrary way and savages 'you weren't a payer though were you' line is infuriating.

The whole Hanson (Dull) Lawrenson (fucking dull/negative) Shearer (dull) and Lineker (too tanned) needs a serious shake up, tired and uninspiring.

I quite like Colin Murray and like him on fighting talk. I also like Danny Baker and think him doing a post game phone in on saturdays would be epic on 5live, he doesn't take things too seriously but has decent knowledge of all levels of the game.

It needs a massive shake up..... oh and Claridge can fuck off.

Anyone pulling the "You weren't a player so you can't comment" thing needs to be sacked on the spot.

Michael Cox was never a professional footballer and zonalmarking.net contains more insight in one article than MOTD has collected in a decade.

He might be Millwall, but Danny Baker's Saturday morning show on BBC Radio 5 is the highlight of my week on the radio.  Properly sets up the rest of the weekend.

I should add that BBC choices for presenters have always been shocking.  David Mellor ran 606 for years.  David fucking Mellor?!  Anyone who ends up eventually on Classic FM should never have been anywhere near a football show in the first place.

I've always liked the idea of journalists as pundits. Serie A on ESPN have Marcotti and James Horncastle who even though have never played the game have a in depth knowledge of tactics and players, better knowledge than a lot of ex pros. 

I agree on Danny Baker. Feels like someone who's first and foremost a normal fan, isn't up his own arse, and also someone who doesn't think the Premier League is the be all and end all. And didn't he have a regular feature called Fraser Digby's Washbag?

The annoying thing is we’ve had a long tradition of intelligent ‘alternative’ written media coverage of football in this country which only the 2 Dannys (Baker and Kelly) have come near to replicating on TV/radio. Foul magazine; When Saturday Comes, at least the early years, not sure about the present day version; The Absolute Game – Scottish, the best of all in my view. Anyone else remember the classic Bon Accord ‘fanzine’ they did, purportedly written the week after Bon’s 36-0 defeat to Aberdeen in the Scottish Cup?

Then the fanzines themselves, full of great stuff – The Crooked Spireite was a good one, our own Bring The Noise and my favourite The City Gent (Bradfud C.) And many, many more, written with skill, no little intelligence and a true love of the game, good and bad.

As for MOTD etc, do as I do: record the show and start watching 20 mins in. Then you can fast forward the inane punditry.

Michael Robinson, who looks more Spanish than most Spaniards, had what looked like a superb review show on Spanish TV focussing on the quirkier side of that weekend's matches in Spain. We've got nothing like that.

Indeed, can't usually catch it live but podcast his 5 live show every week. A travesty that they binned him off from his BBC London gig.

Danny Baker is a brilliant broadcaster.

Savage is the worst of the lot, but moving sideways from punditry the biggest cunt of all has to be Alan Green.

 :nod:

I have to admit to finding Dean Windass' (and Ian Dowie's, who i equate with him in style) attempts at punditry so bad they're funny. Both like boxers pulled fresh from a ring after their brains have just taken a pummelling then stuck in front of a TV camera and told to express their thoughts.

One pundit who I don't mind and seems to know a bit about lower league football is Don Goodman.

I think Peter Beagrie is spot on when he does the Sky studio talk stuff on Football League games.

Martin O'Neill was very good when he did a few summers on the Beeb. And Clarence Seedorf. It depresses me the standard of ex-pro pundits out there, I'm sure there are some intelligent, insightful footballers but they just can't get on the big shows- Alan Shearer was my childhood hero but I can't stand the man now because he's such a black hole of insight.

Couldn't stand him as a player but at the moment I think Gary Neville is one of the best pundits around on tv if not the best. Some of his analysis on sky are brilliant and I actually tune in earlier to make sure I catch them.

Makes a change from the beeb who's pundits repeat the same drivel week in week out.

This. and he isn't as Man Utd biased as I thought he would be.

Pat Nevin must not have believed his luck when the BBC plucked him from Channel 5.

The worst of the lot though has to be Ray Wilkins. For an ex-player, he doesn't half talk a lot of shit.

Absolutely...it's liking saying David Attenborough isn't an elephant so what's he know...or Brian Cox has never left this planet...clueless twat.

Touché!

When broadcasters realise that the next great pundit is probably not going to be an ex-player, there may be some hope.

Some of those getting slated I quite like and vice versa . Can't stand marcotti and Stan collymore is another fucking idiot. 

Agree with most of whats been said already.Steve Claridge = cunt.
Bring back the old school . . whatever happened to Roger Malone?  :suicide:

Garth Crooks takes himself so seriously it's hilarious. I can't watch him without laughing.

I love listening to Graham Taylor adding new words to the English language.

I always thought Big Ron was a very good co-commentator/pundit when he was with ITV before he got sacked about 10 years ago.

Gary Neville for me is the best pundit at the minute, his in-depth analysis and insight into football is fascinating.

Niall Quinn is the only co-commentator who actually speaks more than the actual commentator during games  :D

And David Pleat trying to pronounce names. Not being able to pronounce 'Henry' correctly was beyond embarrassing.

Also it's hard to explain but he reminds me of a Quentin Blake drawing.

[url width=460 height=288]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01001/david_pleat_1001442c.jpg[/url]

[url width=900 height=1250]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/211/6/5/roald_dahl_and_quentin_blake_by_niki_kehoe-d426gjy.jpg[/url]

 brilliant write up by bruce .Dont know if anyone has posted this yet :
http://youtu.be/8LbR_cYhT6Q

I know I'm in the minority, but I like Lawrenson when he does live match commentary. They always pair him up with a proper commentator and he spends the entire match cracking really bad jokes and stating the obvious, with little to no comment on the football. He's so bad that he's good.

Deano was a godsend. He should present Soccer Saturday when Jeff moves on.

Excellent: Jeff Stelling, Gary Neville, Graeme Souness, Guillem Balague, Roberto Martinez

Good: Ray Wilkins, Graham Hunter, Roy Keane, Graeme Souness

Comedy: Dean Windass, Alan McInally, Garth Crooks, Chris Kamara, Jamie Carragher, Emmanuel Adebayor

Average: Gary Lineker, Mark Lawrenson, Gareth Southgate, Patrick Vieira, Robbie Savage

Bad: Jamie Redknapp, Alan Shearer, Alan Hansen, Adrian Chiles, Lee Dixon, Gordon Strachan, Matt Le Tissier

Car Crash: Mark Bright, Steve Claridge, Andy Townsend, Martin Keown, Paul Merson

 I don't watch much Premier League football, preferring La Liga....they had a presenter on there Mark Robson who was very good, but he got sacked by Sky for being opinionated, they wanted a talking head so shifted Scott Minto, from match summary. Minto is a sort of cross between Lineker and Redknapp, a bird could take him home to meet the parents, and he'll never upset anybody.

Doyen of Sky's Spanish pundits is Ossie Ardlies....Ossie these days has a certain professorial air, like he should be running a Department of Football Studies at some venerable university.

As for Shearer et al....probably see MotD once a year, and it reminds me why I stopped watching.

Guillem Balague is great.

Yep, I like him as well...mainly because he supports Espanyol.

It's all about Rayo Vallecano.

Andy cunting Townsend,forgot about him.Deffo on par with Steve cunting (in my pompey/miwall days)zzz Claridge.

Kenneth Wolstenholme, Wally Barnes, David Coleman. And who can forget the great Hugh Johns - came back from the pub one Sunday lunchtime and he introduced the two teams as Corwich and Noventry!

And he gave the most biased commentary for our '93 Play-off game against Leicester.

As well being a total cock.

I saw Steve McMahon doing analysis for the Asian ESPN Star Sports channel. He's aged well but still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about, was embarrassing at times. They must be desperate, or he's really cheap - probably did it for a few nights in a hotel and a round of gold.

Gary birtles talks shite

Spot on.  Danny Baker doing 606 was great too.  He introduced me to such players as Frank Awanka and Gerry Slagboom.  Oh, and a transsexual football team, playing football with a ball on fire, and on top of a skyscraper.  That is what 606 should be...not Spurs fans moaning as usual.

David Pleat likes short corners.  That's all you need to know.

surprised that our very own "expert" pundit Alan Mac hasn't had a mention

Didn't read the whole thread but....

Steve McMahon is a cunt.

Some of Deano's finest moments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYJCn6EPTQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svHUjuWtb_0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skCEN7Mh7Qc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYmCKiyDqW8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWXAWokm_8w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnhDr4Fdnfs

Whatever happened to Phil (cheque is in the post) King?

he had some legal bother didn't he?

Definitely someone that's headed too many footballs.

The Videprinter on the second video brought back dark memories of the Danny Wilson era, conceding 2 goals in the 85th and 89th minute to draw 2-2 after going 2 up in 10 at Southend. One of the many last minute goals conceded that season. Wobbled like a frightened jelly after the 85th minute that defence.

Never get that feeling with this team.

Thought he got found not guilty of all charges but he hasnt been on the radio since .
Apparantley still does a bit of corporate stuff though :hmmm:

Thats what you heard anyway..

That must have been a session,pubs were only open 12 til 2 in them/those days.
Unless you started in the Loco and finished in the Falcon - Happy days  :pint:

Yeah they dont know they are born now. 12-2 then sit in the graveyard with a 6 pack waiting for 7pm.

At the gf's and she doesn't have sky sports so ive put final score on, garth brooks and robbie cabbage have been on for less than 1 minute and they are already annoying me, what a pair of wallopers!!