Thetownend.com

Let's have a debate especially after the tragic shootings of two police officers recently.

I think they should. There is a lack of respect in this country for the police. Something needs to be done about it. Gun crime is rising all the time. Our officers need the 'tools' to do a job and I'm sorry but pepper spray just isn't good enough!

100% yes.

You've been reading too much of the Daily Mail again Sippo. Gun crime in this country is amongst the lowest in the world and that's precisely because the police don't carry guns.

Arm the police and the criminals will arm themselves too. Gun crime will spiral.

Arming the police hasn't exactly curbed violent crime in the US, has it?

Have to say I agree with Samdy.

the 'Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop' in England and Wales is 0.07 according to this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

make of that what you will.

It's a psychological thing, if someone has a gun you're less likely to try something.

Ha ha no. I can't read you know that. I feel that the time has come for the police to get more protection. Why does the US argument come up all the time? I don't care about them, I care about us. There are other countries where their police are armed.

No chance - for every copper armed, 10 twats will find themselves a gun

After a few years we will be like he USA

Then everyone will become fat - fuck that !

I don't trust them without guns, the thought of them being armed is horrific. At what point does a copper decide it is the right time to shoot a suspect? How many Gung Ho bonnet rolling old bill will say "Well Chief Superintendent, he pulled a shooter on me so I had to let him have it", knowing it aint nowhere near the truth.

As Samdy said, gun crime in The UK is relatively low, and when incidents such as the shooting of the 2 ladies yesterday happen, it is highlighted more, as it is something that does not happen very often, despite what the scaremongering Daily Mail will have us believe.

It is a big no for me

I think you mean fatter

Arrange these three words into a well known phrase.....

jerk reaction knee

Is that right Freud?

Is it?

i have nothing further to add but i didn't want Flashheart to feel lonely

Horrible thing the policewomen getting killed.

But this is thankfully a very very rare event in this country. And there is no evidence I've seen saying that being armed would have prevented their murder.

So no, the cons far outway the pros. Lets not arm our police by default.

Ha ha

Thanks my dear

Up to 2010, gun crime has fallen going by this - http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF05.htm

Terrible as the recent shooting of the 2 cops is, arming the whole force off the back of a rare incident would be pretty stupid.

Most of the larger police forces where the heavy crime is centred already have mobile armed units anyway, so the force has arms available very quickly when needed.

From what I've seen, I honestly don't think the lives of the two unfortunate cops who got shot would have been saved if they'd had guns on them.

We have two systems for reacting to risk a primitive intuitive system and a more advanced analytic system -- and they're operating in parallel. It's hard for one to contradict the other.

If you're an animal living in the jungle and you're attacked by a lion, it makes sense that you develop a fear of lions, or at least fear lions more than another animal you haven't personally been attacked by. From a risk/reward perspective, it's a good trade-off for the brain to make, and if you think about it -- it's really no different than humans fearing guns.

 :dance:

That could so easily be a PDC press conference

excellent copypasta work there CoFo

If the lion come in your territory and speak with you in a bad moment, how do you react? We need to make an angry mentality, the lion is not blurry but my plaaayers, yes.

Made a few amendments..

These criminals had a grenade. Therefore the Police should have them too.

And what if those animals could go out and buy guns to protect themselves from the lions?

Typical lilly-livered liberal half-measures which leave our brave bobbies badly exposed to the scum that stalk our streets. The police should be able to bring overwhelming force to bear. Until each and every officer has at his or her disposal a shoulder-mounted rocket launcher and/or personal bazooka (according to officer's personal choice), not one of us will be able to sleep safe in our beds. And what is more, the country will continue to go to the dogs. It's the health and safety culture gone mad I tell you!

when i was the states me and my mates started chatting to a marine, he was asking about how we protect ourselves in england without guns - he couldn't get his head round the fact no-one carried guns.....

later that evening he showed me pictures of his modded ak-47 he had at his house and invited me and my friends to go shooting in the desert....we politely declined and we got the fuck out of the bar... I missed "No Concealed Guns" sign on the entry to the bar

i they should have an armed division (i.e quick response etc) but for every copper on the street - no chance

My ex brother in law was in the first response unit in Devizes and he is totally against every officer carrying a gun because with a gun comes massive responsibility not to discharge it inappropriately.....so no thanks, fine as it is.

The two policewomen were just incredibly unlucky and my thoughts go to their families but there will always be idiots in our society that will do things like this and every police officer knows their job is dangerous already, but please don't let us become like the US.

If an officer is attacked with an armed weapon why should they have to wait for an armed response unit. If officers carry a gun it would be more of a deterrent. It's all about respect. Criminals have had it  too easy for to long. If an officer is carrying a gun it doesn't mean that they will use it.

I still don't understand the comparison between us and the US. We are a much smaller nation, and you'll find the police there will only use their weapon if they feel their life is in danger. What happens in this country? They get out their pepper spray...

What does the size of the nation have to do with it?

Put the daily mail down. The issue isn't about arming officers, it would be backwards and further drive an 'us against them' mentality. The real issue with the manchester shootings is why the most wanted man in Britain was out on bail in the first place.

Look into gun crime per capital and compare us to other, industrialised countries in Europe.
Those with a fully armed police force have a percentage than we do.
The police in this country were asked to vote if they would like to be armed and the overwhelming majority said no.
Sippo, get back in your box.

And look what happened to the country the last time an armed officer shot an (allegedly) armed criminal.

In response to the original question, a definate no. The shooting was an isolated incident. And not the norm

We'll move toward Sharia law before we arm all our Police and, to be honest, it would be interesting to know how crime would change if we were under Sharia law

You can put the daily mail down as well.

 :hmmm: a bit of a tangental jump !, but I suppose it would make firing a gun a bit dificult if you lostyour hands  shoplifting?

Indeed, apart from what it would do to the number of guns in circulation among criminals is the question of whether the police can be trusted with firearms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom#Fatal_incidents

Looking at wikipedia, every fatal shooting by police since 1980 has at the very least a question mark over it if not being downright wrong such as in the case of the brazilian guy de Menezes a few years ago.

Don't think you can blame that for all the trouble. Some of it maybe but not all of it.

Now where's my box...

I don't think the Brazilian case is a good example. They had to make a decision and they made it. For all they knew to not shoot could have resulted in a far worse tragedy.

I think he's referring to the Mark Duggan incident last year that caused the riots.

Was replying to London red Mr. Ging.

I'll let you off then.

I am a serving cop and used to be armed. I know officers who have been involved in shootings (both sides of the weapon) so speak with a bit of experience.

In relation to the stats about police shootings etc. Suspects are arrested at gunpoint pretty much every day and very rarely do these incidents result in a suspect being shot.

Re De Menezes, the environment in which this incident occured was extreme. The fact that someone screwed up is well documented but I think this incident would not have developed in the way that it did if it were not occuring in the aftermath of the London bombings.

More information around the Mark Duggan incident is coming to light every day so I will reserve judgement on that.

Armed response vehicles are a very useful asset but, sometimes can be some minutes away. Those minutes can be a hell of a long time when somone with a gun is nearby!

Would I want to be permanantly armed? No thanks.

Should we as a nation have the debate? I think we should and, if the consensus is yes, then it would become a condition of joining. For those already serving who don't want to be armed, we can leave or be found jobs that don't require arming. After a while, the unarmed officer pool will dissapear through natural wasteage.

That is my 10 pence worth, for what it is worth

Oh shit.

We've got a plod on the TEF, hide everything.

Leads me to ask, why the username, fuzzy?  :)

Don't tell them your real name BR. If that is your real name.

Why are the Old Bill called ` The Fuzz`? Great name......as he says there quite a lots of guns available to them anyway. So no point in my view of having all police carrying guns. The nutters who carry guns need no encouragement...

What the hell was the bloke who committed this crime was doing out on bail is the big question here? It all seems so unnecessary lose of life. I am not in favour of the death penalty but this nutter needs to be treated in some sort of way that would discourage others from thinking he is a hero - what the fuck`s that all about?

Back in the early days of police radio, there was a lot of static and background noise on police radios. People called the sound "The Fuzz" and knew police were nearby if they heard it.

I'm in the camp that says that if the police carry them, then the crims will too and things will spiral out of control - after all, if they have no fear/respect of the law as things stand, then why would they if the police were carrying guns.  That said, I am in favour of what the yanks call a "castle law" where if some lowlife scum breaks into your home (castle) then you can rightly blow their heads off without fear of recrimination!

It is shocking how those policewomen were lured to thier deaths, but fortunately gun crime is extremely rare.

On a lighter note, this debate does remind me of the Chis Rock sketch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8&feature=share&list=PL88540D1673C87A74

why would anyone consider him a hero?

Too late, I've been here long enough to know where everything is :sherlock:

Fear not however, your secrets are safe with me :toocool:

BR, you're nicked! :)

I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of negative responses on here. Anyone who believes all police should be armed is a fucking moron of the highest order.

Merely repeating the general consensus but seeing as it does more harm than good elsewhere what's the point in having it here?

We seldom have these terrible situations in the UK but how anyone thinks a way to better resolve them when it does kick off is to throw more guns in the mix is probably not the sharpest.

Quick Jayoaitchenn, hide the drugs!

I'll cleverly hide them up my nose.

You mean I don't get to give you the rubber glove treatment?

I find it hard to believe I'm the only who thinks the police should be armed...

Hey ho. Now where's that paper of mine.

Nah I agree with you too.

This.

 I read an interesting stat recently....more people are shot and killed in Chicago in a year, than American troops are kille din Afghanistan.

 

Armed police=more gun crime.QED

What's Stephen Fry got to do with it?

I shot a machine gun, handgun and shotgun in Vegas the other week, it was fucking nuts. They were all much more powerful than I had realised, especially the pistol. The fewer people that have guns, the better, police included.

Hell no.