Thetownend.com

Last night whilst drinking and chatting a mate and I got on to the Legends 3 star rating that the club had in the back of the programme.  After agreeing that certain players had no place at all in it, we also decided that a five star rating would be better.  So, we set about putting some players in to 5 Star Legend categories.

We had very few rules, but any player in the 5 Star category must be beyond discussion.  If one of us wasn't sure then the best they could do was 4.  Also, even 1 Star is still a Town legend, so the current squad don't get in just by being here!

I'm 37, my mate 45, so I guess this reflects our ages to a degree, I'm interested to know what other TEFfers think, who you'd move, who's missing, who should be removed completely.  Finally, although neither of us saw Harold Fleming or Rod Thomas play, we knew they should be up there somewhere.

Below is the result of a semi drunken discussion, and now the views of some on here.

5 Star Legend

Don Rogers
John Trollope
Harold Fleming
Peter Downsborough
Bob Menham

4 Star Legend

Andy Rowland
Colin Calderwood
Fraser Digby
Rod Thomas
Shaun Taylor
Paul Bodin
Jan Aage Fjortoft
Peter Noble

3 Star

Duncan Shearer
Alan Mayes
Charlie Henry
Sam Parkin
Jimmy Allen
Kenny Stroud
David Moss
Steve White
Dave Bamber
Peter Eastoe

2 Star

Chris Kamara
John Moncur
Martin Ling
Alan Maclaughlin
Brian Williams
Stan Harland
Ray McHale

1 Star

Kenny Allen
Jimmy Quinn
Simon Cox
Tom Jones
Mark Walters
Micky Hazard
Glenn Hoddle
Ernie Hunt
Mike Summerbee
Phil King
Jon Gittens
Brian Williams
(Any member of the 69 team that don't feature elsewhere).

I await the abuse.  :)

Edit: Amended as we go, trying to take peoples' views into account...

Wheres Bobby Howe?

Dave Bamber is much too low.
No Jimmy Quinn, Phil King nor John Gittens?

Quinns in the 1 Stars!

If we missed King and Gittens, then it's becuase we were drinking.  What's your excuse for missing Quinn? ;)

Where would you place Bamber, King and Gittens?

Also, it was never intended to be an exhaustive list, hence posting it up here.

Bodin deserves to be 5 star and I'd probably say Maskell deserves to be around somewhere.

No Beauchamp?!

The Quinn excuse...Ummmm? Not paying enough attention sir? Sorry sir! Won't happen again sir!

Gittens & King prob 1 star.

Bamber for me is a 4/5 star.

As an oldie, I would have Mike Summerbee and Ernie Hunt in there somewhere, and I would have thought Nicky Summerbee might just creep into the one stars?  Also Stan Harland of the 69 team should be more than one star i think

If I ever start taking notes to post later on the internet when I'm out on the sauce, I hereby give permission for someone to punch me in the face.

I don't agree - what they have done seems more than reasonable for a quiet Wednesday night out.

I'd give Digby and Calderwood 5 stars.

Edit: and at least one star for Hoddle, surely?

Where is Hoddle

Beat me to it!

Fitzroy Simpson anyone?

Surely there is 1 star in there for Alan Reeeeeeeeves   :D

Bob Menham (Goal Keeper) - 5 stars... without him the club would have folded financially in 1900 and there would have been none of the other players in the 5 star category or indeed a TEF...

Ok so he was the cause of our biggest defeat as a result of missing a train but even so he is without doubt the clubs biggest unsung hero (and my great grandfather)




By the turn of the 20th century, the goalkeeping spot was held by BOB MENHAM, a former Grenadier Guardsman, who had been brought to Swindon in 1898 from Wigan County . But his credentials were of the highest quality, for only fifteen months previously he had helped Everton to the F.A.Cup Final at the Crystal Palace . There, the Toffeemen had lost by the odd goal in five to Aston Villa - who were also good enough to win the League Championship that year. Menham went into the Town record books as the only goalkeeper to get his name on the score sheet - at the right end that is - and he achieved that feat twice !  His first moment of glory came in the F.A.Cup on November 21 1900 in a Fourth Qualifying Round replay, when the Bristol side Staple Hill came to the County Ground . Swindon were already 5-0 ahead when Bob exercised his authority as team captain to nominate himself as penalty-taker - and he did not waste the opportunity. Later that season, on March 13, Bob again stepped forward to strike the winning goal from the spot in a 3-2 Western League victory over Queens Park Rangers - Town’s first of a dismal season.

And it was in the capacity of club skipper that he made an appeal to the public of Swindon through the local press on behalf of his colleagues, who had agreed to accept a reduced wage so that the club - on the verge of folding up - could continue in business. The paybill had been cut by almost half. The ‘Swindon Advertiser’ set up a subscription list with all donations going to make up the shortfall in the players’ wage packets. Names and amounts totalling £33 14s 6d (£33.72p) were eventually appended to that list !

But, a few weeks earlier, on December 28 1900, Bob Menham made a name for himself for all the wrong reasons. Possibly as a result of too much Xmas cheer, he contrived to miss the train taking his colleagues to Swindon’s away Southern League game at Kettering !  Consequently, one of the full-backs, ‘PADDY’ FAGAN, took up the keeper’s duties and had to retrieve the ball from the back of the net on no less than ten occasions. This indiscretion cost big Bob a one-match suspension, when an 18 year old Irishman from Kildare, PAT KEOGH stepped in. Although TOM BOULTON made a handful of appearances at this time, no serious challengers to Bob’s position came along until late in 1902, when Swindon were drawn away to Chippenham Town in the F.A.Cup.

http://www.swindon-town-fc.co.uk/footprint/TownThroughTime.asp

I'm pleased, but I guess a little surprised that Bodin is now held in such high esteem. My memory of when he actually played here was that the majority of the crowd hated him. Maybe his list of esteemed successors in the left back shirt (Drysdale, Elkins, Heiselberg, Rose etc) has tinted those glasses a tad on the rosier side

And surely David Moss deserves to be stripped of a star or two for his connections to our freinds down the road ?

Brian Williams (Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanimal) deserves a couple though

I'll try to amend based on what we have so far...but I need some other views on Dave Bamber, as I have him as a 2, but he's been suggested as high as 5.

Bob Menham is in!

Shearer 4, Digby 5, Calderwood 5, Moncur 4, - thats my view. I think you have to look at length of service as well as impact and ability

First game for us he was 'tripped' in the penalty area. Penalty was given and he got up and winked at the crowd! - Legend! When we went from shite to being good good in the 4th and 3rd Division he was immense for us. He just had that little bit of quality. Started to fade or rather others came along like Shearer who we relied upon more as we got to the 2nd Div.

Peter Noble  4 Star

Peter Eastoe  3 Star

Ray McHale  2 Star

TEF Legends  :hmmm:

Mex...fB.....PaulD....SY......BR.....JJ......oh

Thanks Reg!

For me Hoddle is 4 star.  I'd also give a star to Danny Invincibile for that goal alone.

Oh - and only one star for Hazard is borderline criminal. 3 at least.

I disagree with DMR - this seems like an excellent way to spend an evening over a few beers.  We don't all want to get shit faced, shag 25 fit birds, get blood all over our faces cos they was on their period, get on the beers again, and fuck the 25 birds mums up the shitter while their daughters were passed on on our mates knob - or whatever the hell it is he does with his Saturday nights.

And Steve Robinson for much the same.

Bring your arguements to Leeds...

I'd give Fallon a star then..

We're going away from legend and heading towards cult hero now. Surely Robinson, Fallon and Invincibile are cults.

what happened to JJ? i noticed earlier his account was off.

Got dissed by the Special One....decided enough was enough.

oh, ok

They all post on thisis now, mostly moaning about the mongs on the TEF.

I've heard it's really cliquey over there.

Good lists Donkey....but Cox is deffo more than 1 star in my eyes,at least 3 :nod:

I'd put Chalkie in the 4 star category on the basis of length of service, goals scored, and appearances. Looking at his stats he made 56 first team starts in '89/'90 alone.

Legendary trialists:

1* - John Chiedozie

1/2* - Alan Bylie

I think us older ones would place Maurice Owen in the middle, probably 3 stars.  Oh, and this Bob Menham - is John Menham distantly related to him (anybody not knowing John, he is the guy in the wheelchair who likes a pint or three!).

Fucking hell donkey you drunken bastard no Bobby Barnes? I loved Bamber, but still would only rate him a 2 mainly for the Simod cup in 88 i think, was Charlie Henry in there?

Alan Mayes has to be above Andy Rowland.

Legends are guys with big hearts who fight for the team - Billy Tucker (for Highbury) & Steve Aizelwood. To a lesser extent and more of a cult status, Russell Lewis or am I letting old age and time cloud my judgement?

meant to go on and say a great list - but wouldn't quite put Downsborough in the 5 star category and didn't really know much about Menham - interesting post therefore from the grandson

Could we have a TEF Cunts forum too?

How about:

5 Star Beauchamp
4 star Mackay
3 star Diamandis
2 Star Mooney
1 star Ruddock

He's a 6 star.

Rowland was legendary for his drinking and hung around a bit longer than he's here, he's there , he's every fucking where, Alan Mayes, Alan Mayes so not quite agreed there.

Steve Aizelwood is a great shout

My cult hero has to be Chris Kamara who (in)famously became the first player to be done for abh (?) for breaking Shrews' Jim Melrose's honk coming off the pitch at Gay Meadow.

You're right of course, what was I thinking

If Tom jones is on the list think Fitzroy should be.

I would have thought that Frank Burrows would rate 2 to 3 stars.
Trevor Anderson 2 star.
Possible inclusion at 1 star for Arthur Horsfield, Wayne Allison, Ross MacLaren & Colin Prophett

Yes, John Menham is related to both him and me. His father was my Grans brother.  

When Bob retired he ran The Castle Inn in Prospect Place which was where my gran was born and where we held her wake when she died a few years back...

Bobs photo hangs on the wall in the County Ground Hotel to this day next to Harold Fleming

What a nice sense of history in your family.
Seen that photo many times....and will see it again next v Crewe.

What Leefer said

Stan Harland should be a 4, not a 2.

Captain of the team that beat Arsenal.
237 games for Town , and would have had 200 more if it had not been for Dave Mackay.

Different class to the likes of Dave Bamber

Off to Leeds for the Cyber Robins tournement soon, but I like reading the commnets.  Especially from the older and younger readers.  I'll have a look when I get back and try to reflect the veiws of the TEF.

Btw, Batch is right about the cult status vs. legend, I think.

What about Ian Culverhouse and Ross McClaren?

What about Kevin Horlock

Chalky only a 3 star and in the same catergory as Parkin? Fuck off.

Loving this! Downsborough and Kenny Allen should feature.

Hoddle should be in the 5 star category irrespective of his short tenure and then nature of his departure. James Milner in as a one star. I've never seen a loan player get such an amazing ovation after his last game with us vs. Sheffield U. Ross McLaren was always underrated.

Digby deserves 5 stars.

Kerslake should at least be a 2 star.

Trevor Anderson-the "new George Best"

* Old git alert *

From my childhood Maurice Owen - craggy, classic bald-headed No 5 - deserves a 5* for playing over 500 matches for us if nothing else.

From Bert's babes Ernie Hunt and Buzzer both 5*. Played plenty of games, so loyal, and had skills we can only dream of. They proved it in the top division.

Not mentioned I think, but close to the top in my eyes: good old Roger Smart. There's never been any other player who ran so many miles for the cause. Spoke to Mad Frankie Burrows one time about 'the best player in the '69 team'. He had no doubts, it was Smartie. He did all the fetching and carrying so the skillful ones could perform. 341 matches, 43 goals over a decade, fit as a fiddle even when playing non-league for Trowbridge.

As for cult status: my first hero was Bronco Layne, for getting 4 goals at Bath in a cup replay. Hardly saw him play but the name and goals did it for this spotty youth.

Too bad he went off the rails with the Swan/Gould match fixing scandal later on. Collapse of hero status.

Jimmy Davis!?!?

Pretty sure Milners farewell topped the late Jimmy's. Still one he'll of a cheerio mind. Cracking player.

Nestor Lorenzo, who I believe is the only Town player to have played in a World Cup final, must surely get one star for that feat alone? If you add in the fact that he was one of the most aggressive players to have ever graced the County Ground then he should be pushing two stars at the very least.

Kenny Stroud should be 5 star. He was the classiest defender I ever saw play for the Town and served them loyally for over 10 years - something you'd never see these days. And, of course, that goal against Everton...........

Apart from Ossie

4 star - John McGinley.