Thetownend.com

The football media are so ignorant of their own subject it astounds me. Heard/read loads about this this weekend, and they're all either citing the Tevez thing as precedent or (more correctly) calling it unprecedented because the Tevez thing caused the 3rd party ownership rule to be introduced - this would be it's first real test. But actually that's only one of several charges QPR are facing in relation to this - one of the others, for example, relates to the use of unlicensed agents, which is one of the things Luton were deducted points by the FA (as opposed to the League) when they were hit by a massive 30pt deduction that pretty much sealed their fate in losing their Football League status.

Yet the journos seem completely unaware either of the other charges or this very real precedent. Time and again this weekend I've heard journos claim that to deny QPR promotion for this would be way too harsh and without precedent. You can argue the toss over whether it's too harsh but it's far from without precedent. Luton's punishment was far harsher - and at Luton the cuplrits had all left. At QPR Paladini's still on the board. Fucking hammer them and let Paladini explain to their fans how he's fucked them over again.

End of day QPR bigger club than us or Luton so I can't see anything worse than a fine.

I can't believe the FA and FL have fucked it up by leaving it so late, why couldn't they have rushed this through?

I can't believe that it's 15 years since QPR were last in the top flight.

Also, I predict a small points deduction (something like 5 points) which will still see them promoted.

I can't believe the FA and FL have fucked it up by leaving it so late, why couldn't they have rushed this through?

Reports this morning are saying that there will be a 10 points deduction.

The concern for QPR is that if reports are correct then people at the FA have been openly discussing this and have seemingly made up their minds of QPR's guilt and have an idea of what sort of punishment to dish out, which in anyone's book is wrong and unprofessional

At QPR Paladini's still on the board. Fucking hammer them and let Paladini explain to their fans how he's fucked them over again.

Paladini has been charged himself with allegedly submitting false information in documents submitted to the FA. Hopefully the FA will see fit to ban him.

You're joking aren't you?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Neil Warnock's office if that happens.

There will be a Downfall Parody already made and ready to go I'm sure.

I think that was a wider satire about the governance of football.

To offer up your own signature, Bazinga.

Indeed, didn't Warnock take SheffUtd down from the Premier when West Ham did NOT get a points deduction over the Tevez affair - and now risks not taking QPR up over something pretty similar

He'd be right to go f***ing mental

My concern is that whatever happens on Friday, the FA, the League, QPR and Cardiff (or whoever comes third) are going to spend most of the summer in the high court.

Erm, no, by your own comparison, he'd be a hypocrite

To get back to the original point about the comparisions to 1990. We were in a similar position going for promotion and the Football League saw it fit to let us participate in the play offs and take the gate receipts from 72,000 at Wembley in the first Wembley play off.

If only what happened to us was in the Sky Sports era could you imagine the media attention and focus if the team winning the £70M Wembley final for promotion to the Premier League was to be denied promotion. Unfortunately, we were just before that era and our misfortune got lost in the fog of Italia 90.

I don't think I can ever forgive the FL for what they did to us in 1990, it nearly destroyed the club and was a huge factor in our 1990's financial problems as we sought justice. The Football League committee then had made their minds up and took no consideration of the interest of the supporters. I can't see the FA being any differerent if it comes to the crunch.

Just to prove wrong those who said "The FA really couldn't have fucked this up anymore if they'd tried", the FA have apparently now decided they won't be making a decision until AFTER the final games of the season. What a bunch of spineless tossers

Just to prove wrong those who said "The FA really couldn't have fucked this up anymore if they'd tried", the FA have apparently now decided they won't be making a decision until AFTER the final games of the season. What a bunch of spineless tossers

They had to. Otherwise how would they know how many points they need to deduct QPR so they will still go up.

Just to prove wrong those who said "The FA really couldn't have fucked this up anymore if they'd tried", the FA have apparently now decided they won't be making a decision until AFTER the final games of the season. What a bunch of spineless tossers

Why the hell has it taken them so long to decide. It's embarrassing.

Have you not met the FA before?

If they were to deduct enough points from QPR to take them out of the top 2, the resulting legal battle would be so messy that I doubt the FA have the bottle to pursue this.  Tackling us in 1990 was one thing; taking on Ecclestone and Mittal in 2011 is quite another.

I would very surprised if QPR were not lining up in the Prem next season.  From Cardiff's perspective, it's a stinker as well...a nasty distraction as they try to prepare for the play offs.

If they were to deduct enough points from QPR to take them out of the top 2, the resulting legal battle would be so messy that I doubt the FA have the bottle to pursue this.  Tackling us in 1990 was one thing; taking on Ecclestone and Mittal in 2011 is quite another.

Don't lose too much sleep over Cardiff, Ossie...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/05/cardiff-city-qpr-third-party-ownership

I had a thought last night, once the FL said that the PO's will go on as normal,that instead of taking points off QPR is that they will 'demote' them like they did to us in 1990, and instead of promoting one of the other Championship sides, they'll keep up the side that finishes 18th in the Prem.

Probably the less messy scenario in regards to appeals, etc.

QPR Points Deduction Research

It seems* to me that the whole QPR points deduction scenario is* one coloured by uncertainty about what the implications* would if a points deduction were imposed and to that* end, depending on which camp you're in, whether* you're an optimist or pessimist, or whether you are* prone to clutching at straws will determine how you* view the scenario.

Most people, I think sensibly, have* adopted the bury the head in the sand philosophy and* will wait and see with everyone committing to* "getting as many points as we can".

Before* our game with QPR on Saturday the BBC were reporting* that they "understood" that QPR will* ultimately be fined and not face a points deduction,* and indeed the QPR spin machine has been engaging in a* full on assault since the charges were brought to push* the message that they would not be getting a points* deduction.

I must confess to have only taking a* passing interest in the QPR story when it broke in* March, but as we reach the climax of the season my* interest was piqued and I have spent several hours* researching the allegations, reading the FA website,* reading news reports and reading blog reports of* several fan websites including our own, QPR's and* Crystal Palace's who's fans have taken great* interest in the plight of their local rivals,* particularly after their own points deduction last* season.

My conclusions should give QPR fans real* concern and should only lead to one possible outcome,* and are as follows:

1. The charges faced by QPR are extremely serious and* are fundamentally two-fold. That they broke third party* player ownership rules that were clearly established* and made clear to all clubs after the Tevez affair, and* that (in my view more seriously) they then attempted to* cover up this breach in October 2010 by submitting* falsified documents to the FA.

2. Alot of people* compare the QPR situation to West Ham's with Tevez,* however when charged West Ham held their hands up* immediately and many feel this helped them avoid a* points deduction, plus there was never any real* suggestion of attempted fraud, ultimately it was found* that they had broken the rules but, lets say, they had* perhaps been naive of the rules. QPR on the other hand* have refuted the claims the FA have brought (which as* we have seen with Rooney recently doesn't go down* well with the FA), and we have the added issue of an* attempted fraud.

3. This fraud element moves this (in* my view) into a very different scenario and one which* people haven't suggested as a comparison, but here* goes 1990 Swindon Town. If you're not old enough to* remember Swindon won promotion from what became the* Championship to what would become the Premier League* via the play-offs but were found guilty of making* illegal payments to players and a few weeks later were* relegated two divisions by the FA this was later* reduced to a one division relegation and they found* themselves back in the Championship.

4. It is this* precedent that I feel will mean that QPR will face a* points deduction at least. Many people have said that the FA have screwed up by* delaying the decision until the last week of the* season, I think this is entirely deliberate and is* ultimately the right way to have handled this -* consider the Swindon example from 1990. The charges* against Swindon were identified well before the end of* season playoffs but the FA sensibly allowed the season* to run its course with all teams trying their best.* Some might say it was cruel to Swindon fans to let them* experience promotion however had they lost the playoffs* presumably they would have been relegated to what* became League One, instead of back to the Championship* i.e the faced a one division relegation as their* penalty regardless of how they finished up. I think the* FA are using this as a precedent, to give no indication* of a points deduction so that all teams play to their* potential without bringing the integrity of this* Championship season into question. QPR may need to gain* promotion to the Premier League in order that they are* relegated back to the Championship and not League One* as with the Swindon case.

5. Consider if QPR had been* given a 10 point, 30 point or even a relegation as a* punishment announced in March. How would this have* affected their own players approach to remaining* matches and what impact would that have had on the* points earned by the teams they later played who could* have had an unfair advantage playing against a team* that had psychologically imploded. Far more sensible to* delay any announcement so that everyone assumes no* points will be deducted, so the chasing pack give it* their all and assume that 3rd place misses* auto-promotion, and 7th place misses the play-offs.* This would ensure that no one can have any complaints* of unfair advantage when a decision is made.

6. Also if a relegation is the penalty imposed then if* this had been announced in March it would have meant* QPR would have had to gain promotion to the Premier* League to ensure they stayed in the Championship. This* would clearly be an intolerable position to put them in* at that time or indeed for the other clubs so the FA,* by delaying the decision, have ensured the integrity of* the season, and also giving a massive hidden clue that* a points deduction at least is guaranteed. Consider the* alternative, if it was just a fine then impose it now,* why wait?

7. Points deductions are imposed for far less* serious offences. A club going into administration,* which mostly happens due to mismanagement and not fraud* guarantees a 10 point deduction. Luton Town were* deducted 10 points for illegal agent payments and a* further 20 points for issues around their* administration status. This effectively relegated them* out of the Football League! QPR should be looking at a* minimum 10 point penalty plus an additional penalty for* attempting to deceive the FA. The treatment of Luton* Town demonstrates that the FA will impose the rules* ruthlessly regardless of the implications to the* punished club. Hereford and Torquay were deducted 3* points and 1 point respectively for each fielding an* illegible player in their match on 1st February. This* was the day after the transfer window closed and* basically resulted from clerical errors in the form* filling process of players signed in the last few hours* of the transfer window. So a @#$% up, not fraud, but* resulted in points being docked. If QPR don't get a* points deduction for what they have done then it will* fly in the face of the precedent set down to all other* clubs.

8. In summary then I believe QPR will face something* like a 30 point penalty deduction, as that is the scale* of the seriousness of the offences, which assuming they* fill one of the top two slots will equate to a* relegation. All this talk of legal cases are a smoke* screen. The FA have QPR bang to rights and determining* the penalty is all that needs to be agreed. They are* going to take a very dim view of the attempt to deceive* them, as they did with Luton Town.

A 30 point* deduction would place QPR out of even the play off mix,* allowing for the playoffs to proceed unhindered.

I had a thought last night, once the FL said that the PO's will go on as normal,that instead of taking points off QPR is that they will 'demote' them like they did to us in 1990, and instead of promoting one of the other Championship sides, they'll keep up the side that finishes 18th in the Prem.

Probably the less messy scenario in regards to appeals, etc.

Good read that.

It would be interesting to see if they were deducted 30 points how the whole play-off thing would work, with what teams etc. Would all the clubs under QPR just jump up a place meaning Leeds Utd would get into the play-offs and Cardiff getting the 2nd automatic place? Or like Summerof69 said and just have the 2 teams promoted from the Championship. Intriguing...

Nah, 30 points means just that. Take off 30 points and re-adjust the league accordingly. In that case Milwall and Burnley would still have outside chances of pipping Leeds.

The interesting one is if they were to be relegated as direct punishment, not through points deduction. Like we were in 90. Won't happen though.

If they were to deduct enough points from QPR to take them out of the top 2, the resulting legal battle would be so messy that I doubt the FA have the bottle to pursue this.  Tackling us in 1990 was one thing; taking on Ecclestone and Mittal in 2011 is quite another.

If they get relegated instead of a points deduction can we still call you Susan?

From BBC Sports news correspondent Dan Roan: "The Regulatory Commission hearing charges brought by the FA against Queens Park Rangers FC wish to announce that although two of the charges have been found to be proved there will be no points deduction made from Queens Park Rangers FC in this season or the next. A further announcement will follow."

Have to say I am pleased about this - QPR have been far and away the best team in the Championship this season

More to the point they've got billionaire owners who'll take the FA to the cleaners if they don't go up. They'll bottle it - irrelevant but hefty sounding fine and a minor points deduction which might stop them being champions but won't stop them going up.

Cheating bastards. The FA is no longer fit for anything, much less fit for purpose

In other unfathomable news, UEFA has put its unanimous support behind Blatters re-election as FIFA president..

I wonder what Ken Bates makes of it all.

I'm surprised a man of your experience has taken so long to reach that conclusion.

But we haven't seen what they were found guilty of yet have we?

[url width=900 height=321]http://i.imgur.com/HZL2c.jpg[/url]

Dunno but it bears repeating.

Dunno but it bears repeating.

This is a genuine question, not a stir job.

They signed a player who had slightly iffy ownership issues?

Who ACTUALLY gives a fuck? Does it detract from the fact that they deservedly pissed the league? Did this one player make 20 points difference? Not me, no and no.

Some of you lot need to stop being so fucking bitter. Fair fucks to QPR.

This is a genuine question, not a stir job.

They signed a player who had slightly iffy ownership issues?

Who ACTUALLY gives a fuck? Does it detract from the fact that they deservedly pissed the league? Did this one player make 20 points difference? Not me, no and no.

Some of you lot need to stop being so fucking bitter. Fair fucks to QPR.

This is a genuine question, not a stir job.

They signed a player who had slightly iffy ownership issues?

Who ACTUALLY gives a fuck? Does it detract from the fact that they deservedly pissed the league? Did this one player make 20 points difference? Not me, no and no.

Some of you lot need to stop being so fucking bitter. Fair fucks to QPR.

A. GENERAL
1 A Player or Club must not at any time use the services of, or seek to use the
services of, pay, or seek to pay, either directly or indirectly, an Unauthorised Agent
in relation to any Agency Activity.

A. GENERAL
1 A Player or Club must not at any time use the services of, or seek to use the
services of, pay, or seek to pay, either directly or indirectly, an Unauthorised Agent
in relation to any Agency Activity.

I'm actually hoping Swansea (or Luton) appeals as it's a fucking joke and the longer this gets strung out the better as it will make the FA look even more incompetent than we already know they are.

they bottled docking points as they left it too late.if they'd sorted this weeks ago they'd have stung qpr, i'm sure.

Is QPR's guilty verdict more aligned to this than Luton's?