Thetownend.com

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/millwall/9402804.stm

Fucking scum.

Millwall boss Kenny Jackett said: "I'm not condoning it, but I do like the passion and enthusiasm."

Jesus, that is not what the manager should be saying is it!

Read what Mowbray says. Similar remarks.

Nothing wrong with what Kenny Jacket has said there.

You can talk about what 'message' it sends to the fans, etc. But thats not Kenny Jackets key concern. His job is to win football matches.

I thought Danny Wilson was over the top in his criticism of the flare at Orient last season.

You're fucking joking right? Throwing stuff at the officials and the opposing players is not "passion and enthusiasm", it's outright hooliganism and when the manager soft-pedals on it like this he is, no matter what else he says, condoning it with a nod and a wink. Hope the club get stuck with a massive fine and Jackett personally too.

its pretty obvious spencer likes football hooliganism.
has been since the year dot.

I think Fergie is very simmilar in terms of what he turns a blind eye to.

Thats not very fair.

In fact I think that the legacy of football hooliganism has left current football with the worst of both worlds in the lower leagues. The fans are over stewarded to the point where it can be quite difficult to create much support or excitement in the terraces. There arent any real hooligans for the authorities to deal with 95% of games so they target fans instead.

The over the top reactions we have in this country doesnt help football. It just results in more restrictions on fans, a crack down on the fans being expressive in the ground. Which means the less matchday excitment in the lower leagues.

Yes, a bottle got thrown at Millwall. But on friday, Albanian gangs from south east London had a knife battle in the centre of Trafalgar square that the Police were unable to stop for 90 minutes.

please dont take offence.
is an observation on my part,not critism.

footballs changed, and all clubs are trying to go down the family route.
the ott stewarding is because of that.

Which is a mistake. People in football have forgotten that what matters is the excitement of the product.

Take the proper fans out of the lower leagues and replace them with spectators and the product is shit.

The top league can afford to do away with the fans because their product is world class players playing world class football. One formula does not suit all.

i agree.the product is shit(at stfc it is anyway)
but whether we like it or not,the whole football mathday experience is not what it was.
take our visit to wembley,it was a total let down on every level.the ground imo is horrible.the fans(i say so loosely)were shit.deffo changed for the worse on a personal level.
families with kids probably love it as it is now.

Here's one that doesn't. I'd rather stand than sit. I'd rather take the extra atmosphere even if it did boil over into hostility a few times - at least it gave you a good shot of adrenaline and made you "streetwise". 

completely agree chalkies.

100% agree with all of this except for the last sentence - I take both my kids and would far rather we had the raucous partisan atmosphere we see only occasionally these days. It's the excitement that keeps them going as well - they both enjoy an exciting game with lots of atmosphere more than a dull ground-out win played out in total silence.

But none of that involves bottles and coins being chucked at match officials and players and none of it stops Jackett being a twat. And nor does "Fergie does it too" either. Two twats don't make a right.

Maybe. But they will soon get bored of it. You dont go week in, week out for years and years (which is what you need to keep professional lower league football going) if the product is boring and doesnt excite you, and as you say they didnt look very excited at Wembley.

I think they have the balance right in the Bundesliga. They seem to be able to deal with problems in a much more rational way, even though they had problems in the 1980's (Euro 88 was a bit of a disaster). Maybe in this country we are incapable of not being extreme on both sides, on the one hand the outrage of the media, and on the other hand, the way fans took things to an extreme and unnaceptable level of violence in the 1980s. Honestly think the Bundesliga will be by far the best league in Europe in 10 years time.

I think the country has changed. I think that a lot of the anger we saw back in the 1980's was a result of Thatcher creating an underclass who were marginalised in society. She governed in a way that ignored the problems of a great many people. I think its time to stop the fammily club crusade and start focusing on 1)excitement and 2) what fans want.

Every German game I have seen on telly always seems to have a magical atmosphere. Hopefully going to see St Pauli v Werder Bremen in April, bit of a local rivalry. Looking forward to being able to have a beer in the ground as well. (Not that I am overly bothered about not being able to drink at football)

It is bad. But I would say that Kenny Jackett has come to terms with the fact that Millwall fans are not perfect and never will be?

When we went 1-0 up at The Den at the end of the season the way their fans reacted I thought turned the game on its head. You can almost see Danny Ward's face drop on the replay when he hears the reaction of the crowd.

Its difficult to quantify the value of that sort of support. Jackett is in a results based business and I think he can see the value of vociferous support. Thats probably why he is not prepared to 'throw the baby out with the bath water' in terms of his mild criticism of the bottle throwing.

Maybe Millwall fans shouldnt be allowed alcohol at half time in that stand? Is that something for Kenny Jackett to decide?

In this country I think we put too much pressure on people to come out and express a fake indignation in the hope it will send out a 'message'. Id rather hear his honest view.

I watched Dortmund vs Schalke on ESPN the other week and it had all the elements that made the Premier League more and more popular through the 1990's.

And Dortmund have a terraced stand which holds 27,000 people!!! Apparently for International games they just unfold the seats. Ingenious ze Germans.

Two totally different things though. The hostile and intimidating support at Millwall is a definite advantage for them. But you can have that without pelting the opposition players and officials. I totally understand why Jackett doesn't want to try and tackle that "edgy" section of their fans and as you say it's not necessarily his place to do so, but he could have just ducked the question, instead he seems to have taken a kind of "Ah well lads will be lads" attitude which pretty much does amount to condoning it

[url width=900 height=675]http://www.footballx.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Signal-Iduna-Park-Stadium.jpg[/url]

A proper spectacle.

Notice at the bottom, they do have nets. Which points to the fact that they don't expect things to be perfect. But obviously a price worth paying to have what the fans want, the biggest terrace in Europe and the best home atmosphere in Europe?

Incredible, I've wanted to go there for years. Gotta be done.

It looks to be an absolutely fantastic ground, I love it must be so intimidating to the oppos.

Two different things, but ultimately still the same people?

I dont like it either. I want good atmosphere without crowd problems. But I dont want to see Jackett crucified because he didnt give an indentikit response.

When I first read that I assumed you meant their whole stadium held 27k...whoops!

Looks incredible, definitely adding that to european grounds I plan to visit.

A very passionate footballing city. I was staying at The Westfalen Stadium in 2006 for the World Cup. Massive respect.

Football was and should be a working mans game. All this family happy clappy shit is just boring! I can't wait to take my boy in a few years time to Oxford v Swindon and expose him to real life, bit of a hostile astomsphere, some tension, all adds to the fun. But I suspect lefty happy clapper spastics like pauld will have made the county ground a sterile horrible bowl like staduim, where you can by a bagel and glass of wine as part of a fucking meal deal.

Just let the lads get on with it, Millwall fans and the New Den is a brillaint palce to go. I've been as a home fan and away fan and seen it from both sides and it is fucking brilliant. To be in the middle of the MMMMMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLL roar thing they do is awsome! I went to Millwall West Ham game and the atomsphere was so tense, so hostile so much fun. I was buzzing for weeks!!!!!! Compare that to some of the shit you get in the prem league and it is no wonder that the lefty looney media blow it out of proportion!!!

Football is run by the likes pauld who wants us all to clap when the other side score, just boreing lib dem voting scum. Football should be run by people like spence white who talk sense and know what the normal fan wants!

Cliffhanger!

no I pushed the wrong button! doh :)

It would be quality if your boy suffered the same fate as the young herbert in Green Street, that'd learn ya.

You really hate pauld, don't you?

We just have polar views, thats all I don't hate him. His posts get on my moobs but hate, no if I saw him in a pub I'd buy him a pint and have a natter about how shit the mods are on the townend :)

yes because films are just like real life.

 :D

I'm just saying.

One less knobhead 20 years down the line ;)

You're not wrong.

You know, it might help if you actually fucking read what I post. I'm as fed up with sterile horrible bowls and driving out real fans in pursuit of a "family" (ie sterile) atmosphere as you. As you'd know if you actually bothered to read pretty much anything I've posted on the topic of ground redevelopments, the shit day out at Wembley or even this thread. Rather than just making shit up based on a completely false assumption in the first place.

Although you don't actually seem to know what my views are  ::)

 :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
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That aside sure the point is that Millwall shouldn't get away with things like this just because they already have a bit of a reputation so its bound to happen'. Doesn't really matter what we think, it IS unacceptable to pelt the lino. So they should get punished in the same way other clubs do - moreso in fact is its hardly an isolated  incident.

Anyone to went the game at their place at the end of last season will know what it's like. They seem to get away with so much more than other clubs. How often have fans ran on the pitch during matches at the Den now?? It happened when we played them in May.


The atmosphere is great. Hostile and intimidating and how I wish the County Ground was like this but pelting the linesman is just not acceptable.

About time the FA came down hard on them.

Yep relegate the cunts 2 divisions and have only 3 down in our div. With hopefully Plymouth and rovers getting at least 10 point deductions that leaves only one relegation place ...................oh, we're still fucked.

Spot on Ralph. I must say, I do have a grudging respect for them. Exceptionally unique following, however rough and spiteful they are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHywRb9megA

Brilliant.  There was a great documentary on ESPN the other week about the South Stand at Dortmund.  My eight year old couldn't get his head round the fact that the one stand held almost twice as many as our entire ground.  It would be awesome to watch a game from up there.  I'm sure I remember that the cost of the season ticket in that stand was only about £150.

No matter how much of a knob GFM might be at times, that's fucking well over the line

Didn't Sturrock give a similar response after the Rovers seat throwing incident. Something along the lines of "it's just a few hotheads" ie "I don't give a fuck"