Thetownend.com

i know it's a question being asked in various threads but thought it's best put in one.

Personally i think we do as Morrison and LJF are a bit hit and miss if we are wanting to be contenders this season.
I hope they prove me wrong.

also with Caddis looking like he will be our No1 for the RB slot could big Kev play at CB?

Yes but not because I don't have faith in LJF and Cuthbert as I'd be very happy with those two starting but I'd just like someone with a bit more experience to add to our options. 

I don't believe Manky can play CB and as we only have 3 CBs I do think we might need one. I think it's not pressing though and would be something we can get once the season starts. Get a young player in on loan or something as cover. Darby can play CB and we were still seemingly after him, maybe that's why?

I think LJF will comw good this season. A lot of people told me he was immense saturday.  I think Seasn Morrison is also a good centreback but i'm still not convinced that he's ready to do a whole League One campaign.

The biggest problem we have at the back is not exprerience but someone like Greer that organised the defence & talked to the back 4.

I think Cuthbert and either LJF or Morrison would be good enough for this league, especially if Cuthbert can step up to being the 'senior' defender and stamp his authority on the back four a bit.

Would still like a bit of experience in as cover though, if Cuthbert were to get injured/suspended, I would be less confident with Morrison and LJF going up against some of the better sides in this division - not from a talent standpoint, just because they are both still relatively inexperienced.

Pretty much as far back as I can remember, virtually every time we've had a successful season we also had quality centre backs. It's happened too often to be a coincidence. Merely 'hoping' that Morrison will do a good job is dubious at best.

I'm not worried if we don't. As others I think given a run JFL is going to be very good. Might make a few ricketts here and there, but a good run will iron them out.

Do you recall 62/63....we started off with Maurice Owen at centre half, who was getting on a bit, it was clear he was struggling, so Maurice went and played right back, and Bert brought in Ken McPherson, who was a 36 year old reserve centre forward, who'd never played centre half.

Maurice was about 38 at the time....the rest of the side youthful...

Wilson has said he's got a few loans in mind already and it wouldn't surprise me if a CB is on the list. Cuthbert and LJF/Morrison is fine. A pairing of the latter two would leave me less optimistic.

IMO yes we need one.

This is based on a few games where both Morrison and LJF were positionally all over the place. BUT, what the hell do I know. I'm pretty sure Wilson is a better judge of things than me, despite my Cirencester and District league experience :) :)

And as I said before, I have seen both players have flawless games. I am not consigning them to the scrapheap. Where I am coming from is I'd like to see us take as little risk as possible if we are going for promotion this season - and that means a tried and tested CB.

In a nutshell, Yes we do.

Regardless of your opinions of LJF or Morrison, if we suffer an injury or suspension to one of the three CB's we currently have we would be very exposed.

The additional CB doesn't necessarily need to come in ahead of those two, but I think we need at least one more to give us adequate cover.

However, it's quite possible that DW could wait & see IF that situation arrises before getting someone in on loan.

I think Danny's going to see if we can manage and if we have problems he'll get another CB in on loan.

yeah we do - would be the cherry on top of our squad

Taylor of Exeter permanently or Josh Thompson on loan from Celtic would be good

Is that the Josh Thompson who has played less league games than Morrison?

yep thats the one - was superb for Celtic when he did play I thought - would cope admirably in League 1

Yes, we do.

Priority.

Agree.

An experienced CB is a must.
In a what will probably be another very tight league I don't think we can afford to be on the back foot if LJF and SM cannot provide consistently good performances. A few dropped points will make all the difference.

By virtue of the fact that Wilson has said he wants a centre back, I'm going with the concept that we might be looking at getting a new centre back.

Maurice hung his boots up just about the time I started standing on the Bank. I take your point Reg, but the game has evolved a bit since leather footballs, farmers field pitches, crunching tackles from behind and players having a fag at half time. Centre back is such a specialised position that you can no longer just stick anybody there and expect weaknesses not to be exposed.

Greer should have stayed - at least until we got someone as good or better.

Greer and Paynter's departure has probably allowed us to bring in Prutton, Caddis, Ferry and possibly Dossevi.

I was as gutted as anyone else that they left but our squad looks a lot stronger to me as a result. We've only got one loan player in so far too, we would only require more if they were genuine quality or we were hit with injuries and suspensions. If Wilson did bring in any more permanent signings I would have to pinch myself.

As things stand we'll be playing a "You score 3, we'll score 4" brand of football. Except we might not score 4.

Or concede 3.

Yes we do- this should be a priority.

We need an experienced head back there, the better teams will def exploit this area and we cannot afford to have any weak links if we are serious of finishing in the top 6.

We're going to finish in the top one.

Well I think we do because we only have 2. Ideally you want 2 players for each position so we're 1 short. I'm not too fussed about the experience factor. As long as they have the quality to play at this level.

2? Which one of Cuthbert, Morrison and Lecs are you dismissing?

Edit: ah, a typo. Yeah think we need one more. Bit of experience would do nicely.

Has Will Evans died or something?

Or can nobody on this thread count above three?

Or have you all decided that first year pro's don't count as squad members (despite Morrison's performances last year)?

Or have people just forgotten about him?

None of the above.  Morrison was not a first year pro last year.  Nobody is banking on Evans making many appearances, so to count him when nobody knows how he will perform is presumptious.

But he is in the squad, he's played in pre-season, and he's clearly the 4th choice CB. People have talked about Bodin making some appearances this season, and being cover up front but seem to ignore Evans, and I can't see why.

He's not much younger than Tozer was the season he made 6-7 appearances and then got sold is he?

Is Lumps Will Evan's dad or something?

Or his agent - or possibly the man himself.

I don't know if I would trust LJF to be consistent enough over a season, I think Morrison will get games this season but I just think we need an imposing defender with a bit of experience

I think Cuthbert and Lecs is a good enough pairing. But we could do with an older player, perhaps on a free, to come in and be there on the bench if either loses form or gets injured.

Dont think Morrison's up to playing in a team chasing promotion yet to be honest.

I was just about to post what Spencer has posted.

I think we can get by with what we have for the first few games. However, the addition two players such as Taylor from Exeter and Ward on loan (okay, it's unlikely) would make us strong enough to stay in contention for the whole season.

I'd rather we spent 200k on Taylor than Ritchie.

Most of us thought we needed a centre forward last season myself included.

We have three good young centre backs I'd like to see if they can cope with the pressures before we panic buy and get in an old fossile.

Spot on.

Also agree. I'd let LFJ and / or Morrison have a chance to prove themselves 1st.

If it dosnt work out, get someone in.  Last season showed you can shoot up the table as long as you are at least mid table at christmas, and apart from the CB issue we have a batter team and squad than westarted last season with, so it wouldnt be unreasonable to expect us to collect more points.

Urm, this time last year we did need a CF.

And we found out we had a young one waiting in the wings.

Who?

Or are you comparing Morrison to Austin, who we bought in October?

This is being twisted around a bit from original post isn't it ....

We have three young players who can fill in the centre back position, my point is give them a chance and come October/November we may have a star on our ranks.

I think it is unlikely we will get Ward now as if he is brought in to play wide left then it means that Ball and O Brien will have to fight to be backup, I don't think we got Ball to sit on the bench all season - although I'd love to see Ward back here though

Austin, although young still came in and played up top with an experienced pro. If we want promotion can we afford to give them a chance and wait till November?

Ball (and Ward) are actually strikers!

Think we need one badly- is the missing piece of the jigsaw.

Think Lecs/Morrison will be found out and if we are serious about promotion we cannot afford any weak links

Think LJF and Cuthbert are up to it - unsure about Morrison hence we need to get one in .. Kyle Bartley might be available on loan from Arsenal ...

Dont think Jay DeMerit's found a club yet?

Nope he hasnt and yes we still need one.

Feeling slightly more confident in Morrison though after a couple of seemingly decent displays. He certainly appears to be some what mature beyond his years and has put the awful mistakes he made last season behind him.

http://www.soccer365.com/americans_abroad/story_1910160433.php

Looks like DeMerit thinks he's better than league 1. Which is fair enough, having played well at the world cup. In my view, he's a little bit above Greer's level - a natural championship player who would look blinding most of the time in L1. He'd be a good signing, but I can't see it.

I'm happy with Morrison/Cuthbert, but we're one or two injuries/suspensions away from being fucked. I'd like to see an experienced Championship CB arrive on loan.

Pie in the sky probably but Bolton have released Danny Shittu. Guess he could still cut it at Championship level though so this is presumably a ridiculous suggestion.

Don't think Shittu played at all for Bolton last season, who were hardly the most consistent team in the PL, so my guess is that lower Champ or top League 1 might actually be realistic...and we do have history with Bolton.....

Haven't Celtic got anyone we can borrow?

Demerrit and Shittu are way out of our reach. Definately Championship players with good wages.

Probably ridiculous but who knows, hes a top class defender for the Championship let alone out division, nice but probably not going to happen.

As its a month into the season and both of them are unemployed, I'm not so sure that makes them Championship players.

Very true, but I'm sure a championship team would be interested somewhere. Of course I'd love them here, but just very unrealistic.

demeritt was interviewed on talksport last night.
he sees himself as a top flight footballer,and has turned down plenty of offers.

Morrison is going to be player of the season, trust

errr yeah alright

Still need one and hopefully will get one

Didn't he just get released by Watford?

from what he said, he wanted to move on.mutual parting apparantly.
currently waiting for the right offer.deffo a player we can forget about

I'm happy with our defence, creativity is our main problem at the moment...

Not really. We've been poor on both fronts except for Tuesday night.

True. Not creating half as many chances as last year though..Our link up between midfield and attack has been poorer than our defence in my opinion..

the amount of goals conceded says otherwise.

When kennedy came on against brentford we seemed more solid and when he started we kept a clean sheet Rose has been the problem me thinks and the signing of sheehan will hopefully see him become third choice. Unless he picks up his game he shouldnt be in the starting XI IMO

That's incorrect Dave, last season, after 6 games we had conceded exactly the same amount - 8.

Interestingly, we've actually scored 2 more than at the same point last season, 9 compared to 7.

Yeah but the Gillingham game was an anomaly which completely distorts those figures.

A goal conceded is a goal conceded. It'll be interesting to see how many we let in throughout this season compared to last. Whatever the merits of our team last season we weren't exactly clean sheet specialists.

Haha Just because it was anomaly we can't disregard it, they were still scored against us.

Will be a top player for us...i am hoping he gets a long run in the team.

Anomaly - anything which invalidates one of your points.

I think Ferry helps our defence. I remember many times last season, when a full back went forward, he went and filled their position so the defence wasn't short. Watching that Saints video of highlights, I think he did much the same there.

Jay DeMerit is still available I think, being released from Watford in late may.

He sure fits the bill experience wise, but might be a bit too expensive contract wise?

He's been discussed on here many times over the last few weeks, NR. The feeling is he's holding out for a Championship club.

How do the majority of you think now about signing a centre back, Morrison is too young was the call, what do you think now?

Four clean sheets in the last five games tells it's own story, however the problem arises again should Morrison get injured

i still think one more wouldnt go amis as back up

As said in the matchday thread, and in the 42 reasons Morrison is better than Greer thread, so far we are wrong.

As above, injuries or loss of form means not a lot of cover. LJF I guess, but we'd need another body in.

In a nutshell

I just don't get people having a problem with LJF still. The few times he's played this season he has hardly put a foot wrong and was the best player on the pitch in one of them - he is more than capable as cover and is unfortunate to not be playing. Added to which is Will Evans, he did ok playing out of position against Southampton so should do fine at CB.

We don't need more cover as we've already got enough.

I agree with jonny72 (at the moment)

It might be bad form to quote yourself, but maybe this thread needs rereading and revisiting. Some interesting opinions.

And when we do score 4 the opposition get  5....

Guess not


:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:


how about now?

You were still wrong at the time you made your original comment

Dave all teams have periods of conceding lots of goals.
I understand your points regarding our defence but the facts are that the players we have now will be the team for the season.

We have beaten Hudds,Colchester,Gas and Southampton at home this season..we have the players its just a matter of consistency and the stlye we play.
Morrison,Sheehan,Cuthbert,Rose would be welcomed in most lge 1 teams in my opinion?

I dont think many teams would take Sheehan or Rose. They wouldnt touch Cuthbert on this seasons form and a few would take Morrison mainly on potential.

Not all teams go through periods of conceding lots of goals, the majority of the teams near the top end of the table will have good defences who dont let in alot of goals. Sheffield Wednesday, Brighton and Southampton have the best defences in L1 and they are 5th, 1st and 6th. All less than one goal a game.

On the flip side we've actually out scored both Sheffield Wednesday and Southampton. We are only two behind Brighton.

We are still over a month of Xmas.....that table will change,and so will the stats i am sure.
We will be in the top 6 by new years day :D

I'm still not convinced we need a CB. Cuthbert, Lescinel and Morrison are all good enough and have put in plenty of decent performances this season that everyone was more than happy with. The problem is their loss of form and resolving that should be the priority rather than getting someone else in.

If anything it's a RB we need at the moment as Amankwaah was off form (maybe just due to injury), Thompson maybe isn't ready yet (or might just need to be thrown in and given some games) and Cuthbert ain't good enough.

The defensive problem can and should be sorted out in training as our current players (except RB) are more than capable.

Maybe a bit of luck is in order as well, all three goals yesterday can be put down to bad luck.

It really is astonishing how good our attack is despite Pericard and Dossevi being less that convincing so far. If we could improve going forward even more then we could win every game 6-3 / 6-4 and be the most exciting team in the history of league one.

I think we should do that. Fuck defence.

No! Dave actually made a slightly positive post!

It really is.

Austin, Dossevi & Pericard or Austin, Paynter & Ward.

You'd take Austin, Paynter and Ward every single time wouldnt you? Still our attack is being helped out alot more. Rose and Morrison must each have more than most of our players got last season. Prutton must be close to out scoring the majority of our midfield from last season to.

Yeah, only Norwich wanted Rose last season and they were rubbish...oh, wait.... :hmmm:

No we won't. We can't defend and haven't been able to all season. It's not going to magically change

Err yes they would

The only reason rose has played so much at this level is for his set piece abilities. He's league two standard

Each to their own. He's been one of our best players in recent weeks.

Norwich wanted him to cover an injury to thier left back. They binned him off pretty quick for a player they 'wanted' then he was released by Stockport.

I think Rose is a decent enough player and has done a steady job for us but lets not pretend we beat a host of other teams to his signature in the summer or that there are other clubs watching him and thinking about buying him.

You could probably say that about most of the players we sign though.

has sheehan actually scored a free kick for us ?

I'd take a look at the goals against column if I was you.

Laughable comment.

No, closest I remember him coming was hitting the post against Rovers (I think) last season.

i'd fancy having rose and sheehan in the same starting line up

having seen yesterdays goals conceeded the two centre backs need fucking shooting.
morrison looks nowhere near good enough to step up a level.

The fact is that despite some good individual performances the defence have conceded 31  (thirty-one) league goal this season, an average of over 1.8 a game. Last seasons "dodgy" defence conceded 57 total (1.24/game).

Our goals scored this season is pretty much bang on the goals per same average of last season (1.56 this, 1.59 last) We have spread Paynters goals around the team.

That proves we don't have what it takes in defence at the moment. Its not just down to the centre backs, its as a unit. But sometimes we are at 6's and 7's back there. We NEED cover - an older head and possibly a proper RB.

Wilson is no fool, he spotted this, hence Frampton. Unfortunately his leg fell off.

Everyone is going on as though our defence has been shit all season and it hasn't. We conceded exactly the same number of goals in the first 11 games of this season as we did last season. It has turned to shit over the last 6 games.

But if the problem is due to inexperience and needing a leader, why didn't it make a difference in the first 11 games?

I'd say the explanation is our defence playing like shit, rather than being shit. Putting another player in there isn't going to change that, they'll probably just end up playing shit as well. Wilson needs to figure out what is going wrong and fix it.

Last season we conceded more than 1 goal in 3 of our 11 opening fixtures. This includes a 5-0 hammering. This expands to 4 in 17.

This season we conceded 2 or more in 5 of 11. This expands to 9 in 17. Even if we are out of form,getting back "in form" isn't good enough. We'd still need to score 3 in nearly half our games to win them.

We can all argue about the reasons why, but the fact is the defensive side of the team hasn't been good enough* all season and its getting worse!

*to form a promotion challenge.

I'm not arguing about whether our defence is shit or not, as it blatantly is.

Just about what the solution is - I don't think an experienced CB will make much if any difference.

Gordon Greer, Jamie Vincent and Adie Williams have all come in over the last 5 or so years and instantly improved our defence.

Not just themselves they've also got much more out of the players alongside them (Cuthbert, Morrison, Ifil)

All players who have looked worse off without an experienced pro alongside them.

Reeeeeeeeeeves is the classic example of a player, who although slightly (haha slightly) past it, made our defence look much better when he was playing.

Although on reflection that might have just been when you compared the other three to him.

I often find myself finding reasons to not agree with you, because a/ I'm a fucking child, b/ You have incredible hindsight. However, on this occasion I agree with you Rodders. Completely and utterly. Enough is enough. We're leakier than 60 year old whore with bladder problems. I like all our centre backs, but I'll always like winning and our team more. Some egos will be bruised but either Cuthbert or Morrison, along with LJF should get benched soon.

It's all rather exciting really.

I think it will so we'll disagree. But not just any player. My worry about Framton is that it'll take games to get his fitness and sharpness up.



I never really liked or rated Reeves until late in his STFC stay. I think your last statement might be closer to the truth.

At the moment we are still 6 points off the play-offs. I think if we can keep the distance the same or close it by some then come January we can bring some personnel in to suit us and gear us up for a real charge in the 2nd half of the season. I think a CB is really all we need providing we don't sell Austin or let any other key players go. We don't need another striker IMO unless someone like Ward becomes available to us then obviously it would be silly to not sign a player of that calibre.

Agree with that, Iffy.

Not even worried at the moment. Frustrated - yes. But there is perrrrlenty of time to step it up.

Anyone who thinks the back four don't need changing need to get a grip

I think we are all agreed. This season is far from dead. But we need to improve.

So are we all agreed that we see if we can resign Alan Reeves?

I'd rather we went for Adam Willis.

Only if we can get David thrown in on a Reeves BOGOF.

I always feel a bit sorry for Reeves, if he hadn't broken his leg then he'd have got Iffy's job, he could have appointed his brother as assistant, and we'd surely be in the Champions League by now.

Ifs an Iffy word Ben ;)
If Reeves hadn't missed that header when Virgo scored for Brighton...then we may still have King as manager :no:

If...great word.

It's a shame King was such a divisive personality, I think that history will be kinder about his management skills.

You are being polite FB. King was a complete and utter fucking knob every time he opened his mouth.

But he was a good scout, and did OK for us up until he gambled the budget on Thorpe and Cureton.

He came close..........but no cigar :D

another bloke who isn't that nice.

Hard to see any viable CB options out there at the moment.  I'd perhaps have a loan punt at Leigh Bromby who hasn't featured much for Leeds this season.

Good experienced defender, few injury problems of late a little like Greer when we signed him but worth a punt on loan.   Plus we can continue the tradition of being the home of rest for old Leeds cast offs.

I seem to recall last year that Lucas made quite a few spectacular saves (or what now seems to be called 'Worldies') when we had defensive lapses. Is that the difference this year than last rather than Greer being a colossus?

Lucas is 32, he was more than solid last season, but had a few injuries this season along with being a bit less consistent.

The thing is though is that I love the idea of having a consistant keeper over 5+ years. Lucas can still do that for us. we know he has the ability.

Not that I'm writing off phil smith. I think if he learnt to be a bit more shouty then he could be a top class keeper for us. I think if he keeps this run in the team then that might come. He has more potential to play 10+ seasons for us and be the next fraser digby.

It's a shame that the age of the long term keepers has come to an end. Are there any clubs who're on a keeper they've stuck with for 5+ years anymore? how about 10+?. It used to be fairly common (in my head)

Bit more shouty, bit less flappy.

Jussi Jääskeläinen has been at Bolton for 13 years now.

Who cares?

you asked dickhead.

:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:  :smack:

Time of the month?

Nope, just my usual crusade against twats.

Oh, the irony.

not really, no.

I fear that irony is lost on you.

It doesn't have to be a centre back, that's just the prime position, a decent right back who manages to exert some confidence in the others and organises them all would work just as well.  Ultimately we have a young team, so they won't be consistent, and they seem to miss the old head.  Rose should do it, but he spent several months just trying to get some form of his own.  It's harsh on the players, because individually they all have ability (Cuthbert more so) but they are liable to have moments in any game where they make rash/poor decisions.  Too many in the same defence seems to be the problem.

^ To add some weight to your argument, I felt that when Sheehan came back and started playing, the defence, as a unit seemed to improve. Maybe he covers well, maybe he communicates well, but I recall a noticeable difference in the unit as a whole. It could of course be down to the fact that Rose's start to the season contrasted significantly with this.

I learned DeMerit is playing for Vancouver. Shame he wouldn't have come here.

So says the man with the wrestling avatar.

Isn't it a wrestler called Charlie Austin or something? I remember dv wouldn't stop posting pictures when we signed him.

Stone Cold Steve Austin?

Something like that.

It's Mr. Perfect.

What connotations that's meant to have is beyond me...

Whilst it's tempting to laugh at anybody over the age of 14 who likes wrestling, I myself:

• Can name dozens of the original pokemon off the top of my head.
• Have a fairly large Doctor Who obsession
• Am a huge fan of the works of Justin Fletcher

so it might be a bit hypocritical. Although I suppose none of them involve men prancing around in leotards pretending to hit each over the head with chairs (well apart from Mr. Tumble on occasions), so maybe not that hypocritical.

I can understand the Dr Who obsession - can't understand anyone over 6 who could name Pokemon characters but who the fuck is Justin Fletcher

He does Something Special and Gigglebiz on CBeebies. It's about my level of entertainment.

Apologies fb I should have known, pardon my ignorance.

No worreis :)

gigglebiz is great i watch it everyday with my daughter :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Mr Tumble can fuck right off.

You Sign ----- Justin [url width=23 height=25]http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww315/no_onehere/Wanking.gif[/url]

How very dare you......although I could sign that for you!

Mr Tumble has special powers.  If he touches his nose and blinks three times he changes character.  I wonder if that woudl work for some of the Swindon players - touch your nose, blink three times and score a goal!  :)