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Well the imminent departure of Paynter has got me thinking...is it all worth it.
Most people who know me..and some who dont will know i am a diehard but todays news has me feeling really pissed off and wondering what the fuck it is all about.
The new regime has worked wonders and i applaud the off field brilliance but untill you start holding onto your good players you have no chance in my opinion.
Since i was a kid we have always sold and believe me when i say thats a big contribution to why the crowds remain low...people dont like supporting a club who seemed destined to sell or lose there better players.
So when will Charlie go....will Lucas Juka at Everton blossom this year...will Coxy get many in the Premiership...will young Henshall go onto shine................IT FUCKS ME OFF.
I am not stupid enough to realise that good offers have to be accepted but Parkin and Fjortoft went for peanuts in the past and supporters remember this.
I for one is very disapointed in the departure of Paynter,in him himself who has shat on us and the continuous messege it send us the fans and more importantly all the young fans who idolised him and now will feel just as i do disapointed and wondering.........whats the point.
I really really thaught we had turned that corner in allowing our better players to go for nought...as usual i was wrong.

I'm disappointed we left it till January to offer him a new contract.

If we'd sat down with him this time last year, he probably would have signed an extension. Again, I've said this on a few different threads but if we want to keep our decent players we've got to stop them running their contracts out.

I hope, this time next year we arent having the same issues but with Cuthbert or Douglas.

I was going to say we should have tied up a new contract for Paynter last summer, The board has got to take some blame for this like it or not.

Fitton's obviously pissed off about this Paynter thing but if he doesn't want it to happen again next summer with Cuthbert, Douglas etc then get them to sign extended contracts.....NOW!

I know where you are coming from, but in the case of Paynter, he was out of contract and was after a big pay day like so many of em

Austin won't go. I fucking hope not anyway.

I'm sure we'll get someone in. Tbh it's out of our control with Billy. I'd be more annoyed if he was under contract and being sold. If he wants to go we can't stop him. We've already offered him the best deal we can.

I don't think we can blame the club Dave on this one. Paynter was always going to see where he stood once he was out of contract.Wilson when he came in always seemed to be trying to replace him with someone,he has dropped him a few times and maybe Paynter gets the impression he is/was not rated by wilson.

I look at it from both sides though,i understand its a job to them now and it is their right like everyone to earn as much as they can but on the flip side it would be nice wouldn't it to hear a player say i tell you what thanks for taking a risk on me when no other fucker would when i was rotting away at southend i will repay your faith.

If Paynter is just looking for more money, then i don't get why you're all so bothered? Do you want a player here who doesn't want to wear the shirt and would rather be sitting on the bench at Leeds earning more, or do you want someone like Austin who just wants to play the game and do his best for Swindon, i'd much rather the latter, and if he doesn't care about Swindon then I don't care about him!

He was rotting in OUR reserves a few months back...its not just the Paynter scenario Dean,its the continuous off loading of our talent.....young and old.

No, he was scoring goals in our reserves whilst we were drawing 1-1.

They come, they go.

Shit happens.

We didn't complain when we got Douglas for free last summer..

I'll complain if we let him run his contract out!

This is the one bastard about loving a team outside the top 5 in England. As soon as you get anyone half good you are in danger of them being sold to bigger clubs. All the players the Town have had to let go fuck there have been some good players. Some of them don't make it at bigger clubs and that makes it worse. Billy done great for the Town but I think he forgot he was nothing before he came here. Clubs like ours are just stepping stones and we have to enjoy them while they are with us. I wonder if he would have stayed if we won on sat at Wembley.

True Leefer i do agree Fwiw but what can we do? Paynter is rumoured to be getting 8.5k a week at leeds. We can't compete with that at the moment and don't want us to even try offering that.Even if we did match the weekly wage he will no doubt be getting a decent lump as a signing on fee.

Henshall,well what can you do?his parents are fucking idiots and are more wrapped up in the glitzy showbiz bollocks than he is.

I believe we saw in Paynters recent performances what type of player you end up with if you start stopping players leaving when they want to.

Fucking hell, I think people need to get a grip.

If Paynter is as replaceable as people are saying then why are people moaning about it (not you leefer because I can't recall you saying that, but it's strange, no?).

Seriously guys, have faith. Danny took over a dog shit team. He made us one of the best in the division. I'm sure Wilson isn't a one hit wonder like Andy King.

Appreciate peoples thaughts,but i for one really started to believe we could start hanging on to the Paynters of this world.....29 goals say he isnt shit and its going to be hard to replace him.
Probably the reason Fitton has been miffed lately...blaming agents etc.

Totally agree with you Leefer.  I think we all knew it was going to happen, but I feel pissed off about it as well.  Fundamently we could end up starting next season with 4 or 5 of the players that played on Saturday, so the stability has gone and has got to be built up again.  We've always seemed to sell our better players off too cheaply, loads of other smaller clubs are in the same situation as us, but for some reason they seem to hold out and get far more money.  Also, hardly any of the players who've moved on to bigger things have really got anywhere.  They either seem to go backwards or end up injury prone?

On the flip side look at the players we have who are staying

Lucas
Cuthbert
Greer
Jpm
Douglas
Austin

Not a bad spine of a team to work around is it.We look set to lose just one of our contracted players

Good points Sie but it isn,t just Paynter is it...thats my main gripe,its youngsters as well.
The loan players like Ward and Ferry who we have helped to blossom will be off also.
You say have faith in Wilson but if he continues to lose players he wont have faitheither and will be off.

I really thaught Paynter and Austin was our future..so i am cheezed off.

That was the old board...When has Fitton and co. sold a player for less than expected?

Today?

I was talking about the old boards not Fitton and co.  However, even though we're now generally in a better position with a good board, as Leefer pointed out, we still can't hold on to our better players!

The fact is if a player wants to run his contract down because he's been tapped up via his agent, there is nothing you can do. Yes, we could've offered him a new contract last summer, but what happens if he picked up an injury this season or he plays crap and you're left with him on a 3/4 year deal stuck in the reserves and you cannot get him off the wage bill. Don't forget it was only March last year that Wilson threatened to bring someone in as Paynter wasn't doing the business, but then was outstanding against Southend, which totally changed Wilsons opinion.

It's great looking on in hindsight, but we'll move on and hopefully get someone else in.

Woooah, no one mentioned offering him 3/4 years.

Last season should have been enough to tell us this time last year we was a decent player. Without Cox taking the penalties he was always going to get a higher talley this season.

If we'd offered him just a year extension this time last year he'd still have another year left to run, meaning he'd either be here next season or we'd get a fee.

I take your points Summer.

This time last year most people wouldn't have given a fuck if Paynter left, myself included. He's had a great season, and if that is his true level of performance he will be missed. No doubt.

But the realities of supporting a smaller club is we lose players. OK there is no transfer fee, but a higher division club has turned his head. Happens to every club. Even Man U lost Ronaldo. And Arsenal possibly Fabrigas, etc,etc.

The only pisser apart from the goals loss is the fact he is on a free. But Even the massive whippet fuckers of Leeds lost a goalscorer for nothing to a higher league club.

OR he could of waited til the end of his contract still and done this either way?

But we would still have the same problem in a years time and people would still be saying why didn't we extend his contract this summer as well.

WE. ARE. A. SMALL. CLUB.

It's about time that got through to some people. Every club outside of the top 4 is a selling club essentially. No one could have predicted Paynter would have the season he's had, even at the start of the season people were slagging him off!

Shit happens, move on.

No, we sit down again - offer an extension, if he doesnt sign it we have a year to try and get some cash in for him rather than sod all.

It seems like the business model has been settled on, where we're not going to be offering long term contracts.(more than 2 years) - Austin as an exception.

Therefore, we're mixing up a blend of experienced pros on two year contracts, younger players on shorter terms, with the hint of extensions, and making full use of the loan system. By definition we're going to have high player turnover, more so after a good campaign.

To be honest, if we have a good season, our better players will be in the shop window and likely to move on - hopefully for a sensible fee. As has been said, we can't expect long term loyalty from people like Paynter, who have to cash in in a short term career.

I can't even imagine what these boards will be like if Charlie has a half decent start to the season, because he'll be gone this time next year at the latest.

The only way we break this mould is to get promoted, and be the club offering the next step up the ladder to promising players.

Fucking hell Leefer, with the greatest of respect, I think you've gone over board there. Here is who you should be blaming for Paynter going for nothing:

[url width=200 height=261]http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9009/bosmangu2.jpg[/url]

It's no one else's fault. If Paynter is going to get 8k+ a week from Leeds then there is no way we should try to compete with that, for reasons which are obvious. Yes, we fucked ourselves over with the sale of Fjortfoft and Shearer (I personally think the money we got for Parkin wasn't too bad) but those deals were a life time ago and done by people long gone (thank God!)

Losing Paynter makes us no different to most other clubs and in fact, we're much better run than most. If the mighty, all conquering Leeds could not hold on to Jermaine Beckford, what chance did we have of holding on to Paynter?

You're obviously pissed off right now but I'll tell you what, go on to STFC Player and listen to AF's speach. It will make you feel better. Guaranteed 8)

You have a right to your opinions..i have mine.
The point i think you are missing is untill we stop losing(Bosman) or selling our players on a regular basis you wont attract the stayaway fans and many of my era who have given up wont be back.
Its all right saying the past sales were a lifetime ago..but they were in my lifetime and nothing changes.
Fitton and co have been brilliant granted but they messed up on this one...and believe me Wilson wont take to much more of todays happenings.
As a sidenote many young fans had Paynter shirts on at Wembley...probably hard earned cash spent for the occasion...how are they feeling right now.
How do you know Paynters on 8K a week,no one knows the facts but the facts for me are strikingly similar to many seasons past..if i am over reacting i apologise but i am utterly pissed off.

Correct. If the rest of Europe had the old UK rules for freedom of contract, the Bosman ruling would never have happened.

Sorry but I disagree Leefer. If Paynter wants to leave there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop him.You can't break the bank to keep him.  I'd imagine Wilson realises this!

The football world has sadly changed. The days of keeping hold of your players are over thanks to Bosman.

When a club loses £3M in a season in needs to either find someone mega rich, sell to balance the books or go bust. We don't have someone prepared to bankroll the club to that extent. So there is no choice.

I seriously don't see why this is such a big deal Leefer. We all knew he was off didn't we? Now i'm sure we're all dissapointed but we now have some spare cash on the wage bill to get someone decent in to replace him. Forget it. We need to look forward not back. We're still being run within our means and until our crowds increase and we get a new CG we cannot simply break the bank to keep hold of our star players.

nice idealism from rodney and others but this isn't championship manager unfortunately, this is the real world!

If we sell austin for <£2m on the other hand... then I'll be moaning

Arsenal are going to lose Fabregas to Barca. Man U lost Ronaldo to Real Madrid. Almost every single football club is in the same position to a greater or lesser degree. In fact, the only ones who are not in this position are the afore mentioned Barcelona and Real Madrid as they are at the top of the food chain.

If those clubs mentioned cannot hold on to their best players, why should we be able to hold on to Paynter?

You say, 'until we stop selling our best players', but look at the players we have kept who would definitely have gone under previous regimes. JPM for example could easily have gone in the window. Possibly Cuthbert as well. Paynter himself could have gone during the window I'm sure if the Board had wanted to cash in.

I don't know what Paynter will be getting paid at Leeds (if that is where he ends up - I bet it is) but I bet you it is two or three times what he would be getting at Swindon. If we assume that is correct, surely you would acknowledge that there is no way we can hold on to him?

Yeah, if we accepted Millwall's rumoured 500k bid (I know it won't happen - previous regimes, who knows?) I would kick off big time.

As a sidenote many young fans had Paynter shirts on at Wembley...probably hard earned cash spent for the occasion...how are they feeling right now.

What about the fans who got Jean-Francois on their shirts -- that must cost a whole load more.

Remember BP away at Walsall? On the strength of that performance we probably offered him what he deserved.  I'm sure DW has a 30 goal  season striker up his sleeve.

Let's just hope DW signs him before he goes on holiday this time :hmmm:

(Not that I'm bothered about 'missing out' on Robinson)

There's a great deal of hindsight genius in this thread. This was Paynter's best ever season, if he'd had a 10-15 goal season would we have been able to keep him? Probably. If he'd have had a 10-15 goal season and he left would we be whinging quite so loudly? Unlikely.

Yes not offering him a contract before the season kicked off looks like stupidity now, but at the time were we concerned? Were we screaming for him to have a new contract asap in pre-season or even in October maybe? No. We were once he started scoring; once it was too late. The board don't have better crystal balls than us. Although i think some think they do. :)

EDIT:


Many were at the time though! ;)

Correct-a-mundo Barry. It's funny, I'm red hot at 'Deal or No Deal' when I watch it on Channel 4 +1 ???

And yes, I'm sure I was one of the many who was pissed off at missing out on Robinson at the time. Hindsight eh? :hmmm:

Not quite screaming, but yes....

Oh crap.

I wanted to bring the walsall away game into this thread.

He missed a sitter, then missed a penalty before scoreing a penalty.  Up till joining up with Austin he wasn't setting the goals for column alight.

How on earth can we compete with salarys of £8.500 and suvive as a club?

Have faith in AF and DW they'll bust a gut to get an entertaing team for next season.  Could be another gudun.

Good points from you all on both sides but this post (DRS's not mine!) is the only one we can move forward with. We will always be a club that has to sell players ( I wish it was different) and then start again. This is Swindon. Having a good board is not going to change things in the near future, or dare I say it, ever.

Get frustrated and anrgy but see things for what they are. No offence leefer.