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Title: Blu Ray Post by: suttonred on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 14:14:18 Any advice on if its worth upgrading from those in the know? Basically i'm trying to work out whether to go Blu Ray or just get a dvd upscaler player, as my current player keeps jerking. I dont have an HD tv, and i have a 5.1 surround system, so main questions are is it worth it with a normal tv, and will a Blu Ray connect to it? And will i be able to use the 5.1 system or will i need to replace that also? Cheers.
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: jonny72 on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 14:32:42 As long as the TV is HD Ready, you'll notice a difference with HD if it isn't then I doubt its worth it.
Shouldn't be any problems connecting everything, but obviously it depends on the connections on your existing kit. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Simon Pieman on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 14:42:05 Get a normal dvd player because you don't have an HD tv.
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Batch on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 14:48:25 Exactly, neither BluRay nor an upscaling DVD player are any use to a normal TV.
Upscaling means the player will produce a HD image from a standard definition (e.g. normal DVD) source. Blueray will produce a HD image from a HD source. You have no way of displaying a High Def image as you have a standard def screen! Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Colin Todd on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 14:50:56 buy a HD TV
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Batch on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 15:01:19 Missed the second bit of the question. Is the 5.1 system built in to the DVD player, i.e. the speakers plug into the DVD player. Or do you have a separate AV receiver that the DVD player plugs into via optical/coax connector (i.e. the speakers are plugged into a seaparate box from the DVD player)?
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Rossi on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 15:01:21 Peronally I wouldn't fork out for a DVD-upscaler. Give it a few years and everything will be on blu-ray anyway, so it only means you'll have to get one later rather than sooner.
Like SiPi said, your best best is just to replace it with a DVD-player if you don't have a HDTV. I'm sure you can pick them up farily cheap nowadays Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 15:14:58 a cheapy supermarket dvd player will do the job. most of the cheap ones are multi region too.
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: axs on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 15:46:28 Any advice on if its worth upgrading from those in the know? Basically i'm trying to work out whether to go Blu Ray or just get a dvd upscaler player, as my current player keeps jerking. I dont have an HD tv, and i have a 5.1 surround system, so main questions are is it worth it with a normal tv, and will a Blu Ray connect to it? And will i be able to use the 5.1 system or will i need to replace that also? Cheers. Entirely pointless without an HDTV. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: suttonred on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 18:13:38 Missed the second bit of the question. Is the 5.1 system built in to the DVD player, i.e. the speakers plug into the DVD player. Or do you have a separate AV receiver that the DVD player plugs into via optical/coax connector (i.e. the speakers are plugged into a seaparate box from the DVD player)? It's a seperate system, think i'll just plod along then til my perfectly good tv goes, as i wont be allowed to replace until then ( i think it might get a cup of tea down the back accidentally tonight)Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Batch on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 18:40:35 Fair do's, even most cheap DVD players have optical out or coaxial out for 5.1. So if you do change the DVD player just make sure you get one that matches what you AV receiver can take.
Oh and you'll probably need to enable DD 5.1 from the DVD players setup menus. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: michael on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 18:44:24 FYI, I am told that a lot of people have problems getting Blu Ray disks from remote movie rental companies such as LoveFilm.
Despatches are often delayed, or you may be sent something that you have not even listed among your choices. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: axs on Thursday, April 2, 2009, 22:39:59 FYI, I am told that a lot of people have problems getting Blu Ray disks from remote movie rental companies such as LoveFilm. Despatches are often delayed, or you may be sent something that you have not even listed among your choices. Really? I pretty much exclusively order Blu-Rays and have never had a delayed disc or the wrong one sent to me. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Ralphy on Friday, April 3, 2009, 06:49:59 Blu Ray is all that's on my list from Lovefilm and I have experienced no problems whatsoever.
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Samdy Gray on Friday, April 3, 2009, 06:58:34 Same here, I only ever order Blu-Ray from them now and I've had no problems at all.
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: sheepshagger on Friday, April 3, 2009, 07:00:20 Buy an HD TV and a PS3 - High Def gaming for free with your blu ray !
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: magicroundabout on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:09:30 deffinitely get a HD tv and then a blue ray player aswell.
I've got a Sony 40v4000 and a Sony BDPS-550 Blue Ray player and the image is just amazing compared to my old Denon DVD Player. it's a great investment Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Ralphy on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:12:25 But make sure you connect with a HDMI cable NOT component.
Alot of Blu Ray players don't come with a HDMI cable in the box. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: magicroundabout on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:20:24 ebay is good for cables. Don't pay full price for one.
i got a £70 cable for £20 off the bay and it was brand new Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: sheepshagger on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:20:32 And don't get caught by the salesman's bullshit about how "buying a better - more expensive - quality HDMI cable will give you a better picture" - it's complete bollocks...
Buy the cheapest one you can possiby find - makes no difference at all... It's a digital signal - therefore either works or doesn't - it's not like an analogue cable which does make a difference..... Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: magicroundabout on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:29:05 when i got my blue-ray i checked it out first in the Sony Centre. they wanted £330 for it but a google search pulled up a price comparison site and i bagged it for £220 delivered :D
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: @MacPhlea on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:31:22 And don't get caught by the salesman's bullshit about how "buying a better - more expensive - quality HDMI cable will give you a better picture" - it's complete bollocks... Can anyone verify this? I'm in the process of self-installing a multi-room AV system that feeds to all rooms from a central location... I've held off buying the expensive HDMI cable as it will set me back the best part of 3 grand will the cheaper stuff really do the same job without flickering? I'm going to be sending 1080P signal over thisBuy the cheapest one you can possiby find - makes no difference at all... It's a digital signal - therefore either works or doesn't - it's not like an analogue cable which does make a difference..... Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: magicroundabout on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:35:03 what length do you need for the HDMI cable? £3k is definitely too much
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: sheepshagger on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:44:08 Triseros - think of the signal that is going down the cable....
It is 0's and 1's - binary code (digital) It either travels down the cable or it doesn't - there is none of this "some get there and some dont" business - it either works and sends the signal in it's entirity - or it doesn't. Analogue cable is completely different - this will offer better signals if the quality is better etc.... Digital HDMI cable makes bugger all difference - either works or doesn't.... Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: @MacPhlea on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:46:30 what length do you need for the HDMI cable? £3k is definitely too much 5 x 10 metres 3 x 5 metres I was 'advised' that I would need boosters and all sorts of shit... Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: magicroundabout on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:52:13 5 x 10 metres 3 x 5 metres I was 'advised' that I would need boosters and all sorts of shit... no no no no no no boosters just a cable. Search on the bay for those lengths and they will do the job fine. http://crave.cnet.co.uk/homecinema/0,39029447,49298553,00.htm http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Profigold-1080p-HDMI-1-3-interconnect-5m-lead-PROV1005_W0QQitemZ320334576493QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item320334576493&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1761%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Talk Talk on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:54:30 Quote Cable length The HDMI specification does not define a maximum cable length, but because of signal attenuation there is an upper limit to how long HDMI cables can be made.[56] The length of an HDMI cable depends on the construction quality and the materials used in the cable.[56] Adaptive equalization can be used to compensate for the signal attenuation and intersymbol interference caused by long cables. To reduce the confusion about which cables support which video formats, HDMI 1.3 defines two categories of cables: Category 1 certified cables, which have been tested at 74.5 MHz (1080i/720p), and Category 2 certified cables, which have been tested at 340 MHz (1600p).[57] Category 1 HDMI cables are to be marketed as "Standard" HDMI cables, and Category 2 HDMI cables are to be marketed as "High-Speed" HDMI cables.[1] This labeling guideline for HDMI cables went into effect on October 17, 2008.[58][59] Category 1 and 2 cables can either meet the required parameter specifications for inter-pair skew, far-end crosstalk, attenuation, and differential impedance or they can meet the required non-equalized/equalized eye diagram requirements.[57] A cable of about 5 meters (16 ft) can be manufactured to Category 1 specifications easily and inexpensively by using 28 AWG (0.081 mm²) conductors.[56] With better quality construction and materials, including 24 AWG (0.205 mm²) conductors, an HDMI cable can reach lengths of up to 15 meters (49 ft).[56] The HDMI website has stated that many HDMI cables under 5 meters of length that were made before the HDMI 1.3 specification can work as a Category 2 cable but cautions that only Category 2 tested cables are guaranteed to work.[60] Long cable lengths can cause instability of HDCP and blinking on the screen due to the weakened DDC signal which HDCP requires. HDCP DDC signals must be multiplexed with TMDS video signals to be compliant with HDCP requirements for HDMI extenders based on a single Category 5/Category 6 cable.[61][62] Several companies offer amplifiers, equalizers, and repeaters that can string several standard HDMI cables together. Active HDMI cables use electronics within the cable to boost the signal and allow for HDMI cables of up to 30 meters (98 ft).[63] HDMI extenders that are based on dual Category 5/Category 6 cable can extend HDMI to 50 meters (164 ft) while HDMI extenders based on optical fiber can extend HDMI to 100+ meters (328 ft).[56][63] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi) Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: @MacPhlea on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:58:47 Cable length The HDMI specification does not define a maximum cable length, but because of signal attenuation there is an upper limit to how long HDMI cables can be made.[56] The length of an HDMI cable depends on the construction quality and the materials used in the cable.[56] Adaptive equalization can be used to compensate for the signal attenuation and intersymbol interference caused by long cables. To reduce the confusion about which cables support which video formats, HDMI 1.3 defines two categories of cables: Category 1 certified cables, which have been tested at 74.5 MHz (1080i/720p), and Category 2 certified cables, which have been tested at 340 MHz (1600p).[57] Category 1 HDMI cables are to be marketed as "Standard" HDMI cables, and Category 2 HDMI cables are to be marketed as "High-Speed" HDMI cables.[1] This labeling guideline for HDMI cables went into effect on October 17, 2008.[58][59] Category 1 and 2 cables can either meet the required parameter specifications for inter-pair skew, far-end crosstalk, attenuation, and differential impedance or they can meet the required non-equalized/equalized eye diagram requirements.[57] A cable of about 5 meters (16 ft) can be manufactured to Category 1 specifications easily and inexpensively by using 28 AWG (0.081 mm²) conductors.[56] With better quality construction and materials, including 24 AWG (0.205 mm²) conductors, an HDMI cable can reach lengths of up to 15 meters (49 ft).[56] The HDMI website has stated that many HDMI cables under 5 meters of length that were made before the HDMI 1.3 specification can work as a Category 2 cable but cautions that only Category 2 tested cables are guaranteed to work.[60] Long cable lengths can cause instability of HDCP and blinking on the screen due to the weakened DDC signal which HDCP requires. HDCP DDC signals must be multiplexed with TMDS video signals to be compliant with HDCP requirements for HDMI extenders based on a single Category 5/Category 6 cable.[61][62] Several companies offer amplifiers, equalizers, and repeaters that can string several standard HDMI cables together. Active HDMI cables use electronics within the cable to boost the signal and allow for HDMI cables of up to 30 meters (98 ft).[63] HDMI extenders that are based on dual Category 5/Category 6 cable can extend HDMI to 50 meters (164 ft) while HDMI extenders based on optical fiber can extend HDMI to 100+ meters (328 ft).[56][63] Can someone summarise this in a paragraph? It's Friday Morning and I was watching all 4 episodes of The Wire until 2 this morning and I'm having a JFW moment Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: magicroundabout on Friday, April 3, 2009, 08:59:40 basically if the cable is a good one length doesn't matter
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Talk Talk on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:00:37 Triseros - think of the signal that is going down the cable.... It is 0's and 1's - binary code (digital) It either travels down the cable or it doesn't - there is none of this "some get there and some dont" business - it either works and sends the signal in it's entirity - or it doesn't. Analogue cable is completely different - this will offer better signals if the quality is better etc.... Digital HDMI cable makes bugger all difference - either works or doesn't.... Erm, that's not true SS. It doesn't matter what format the signal is (analogue or digital), all copper cables have physical resistance and will attenuate a signal over a length of cable. At some point on a long cable the digital square waves will be reduced in amplitude to a level that won't drive the receiving end. That depends upon a lot of factors such as wire thickness, shielding etc. Fizzics, innit? Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: @MacPhlea on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:03:36 so this will do
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10m-Gold-HDMI-Cable-Lead-100hz-Blu-Ray-HD-LCD-Cat-2_W0QQitemZ350172539831QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item350172539831&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10m-Gold-HDMI-Cable-Lead-100hz-Blu-Ray-HD-LCD-Cat-2_W0QQitemZ350172539831QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item350172539831&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318) Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Talk Talk on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:05:37 Can someone summarise this in a paragraph? It's Friday Morning and I was watching all 4 episodes of The Wire until 2 this morning and I'm having a JFW moment Category 1 = 'standard' spec. Cheapo cables good for 5m. Pricey cables good for 15m. Check the spec of the cable, if the wires inside are 28 AWG (0.081 mm²) diameter then it's a cheapy, if they are 24 AWG (0.205 mm²) then it should go to 15m Category 2 = 'high speed' spec. Pay lots of money but they will definitely work up to 15m. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Talk Talk on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:06:12 so this will do http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10m-Gold-HDMI-Cable-Lead-100hz-Blu-Ray-HD-LCD-Cat-2_W0QQitemZ350172539831QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item350172539831&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10m-Gold-HDMI-Cable-Lead-100hz-Blu-Ray-HD-LCD-Cat-2_W0QQitemZ350172539831QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item350172539831&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318) Yup - it's Category 2. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: @MacPhlea on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:07:17 Thank you - the missus will be happy - it's already cost me 5 grand...
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: magicroundabout on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:08:07 the link i posted to the PROV1010 is a quality make too
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: @MacPhlea on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:10:05 Thanks Magic
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: magicroundabout on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:22:14 i've got the 2m cable which i got from the bay and it's ace. Build quality is very high.
take a look at the site here http://www.profigold.com/products/?page_id=159 Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Batch on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:42:46 Seriously, unless you are running a long run of HDMI a (well built) cable conforming to the HDMI 1.3spec will be more than adequate for full 1080p.
I wouldn't pay more than £10-£15 for one. 3k for a 10M cable, fuck off. These people need to be branded in some way so we can all mock them for believing the Monster hype and for presumably shopping in Currys. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: sheepshagger on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:49:12 Erm, that's not true SS. It doesn't matter what format the signal is (analogue or digital), all copper cables have physical resistance and will attenuate a signal over a length of cable. At some point on a long cable the digital square waves will be reduced in amplitude to a level that won't drive the receiving end. That depends upon a lot of factors such as wire thickness, shielding etc. Fizzics, innit? I think TT we are both right to a degree here.... If the wave form (in the case of digital it is either high or low) degrades beyond a certain level you won’t get a picture …… but it’s true to say that all cables have a physical resistance and will attenuate. If the wave form can still be ‘read’ at the receiving end, the picture will be no different regardless what digital cable you use. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Batch on Friday, April 3, 2009, 09:56:42 If the wave form can still be ‘read’ at the receiving end, the picture will be no different regardless what digital cable you use. Yes, a cheap cable exhibiting no loss/errors will be as good as an expensive cable exhibiting no errors. The issue is the edge cases, where degradation isn't total loss. The picture will degrade and you will probably see artifacting/sparkle effects. As long as the cable meets the spec 10m shouldn't be a problem. Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: sheepshagger on Friday, April 3, 2009, 10:15:19 blimey - look at us getting all technical and sounding like we actually know what we are talking about :)
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: suttonred on Friday, April 3, 2009, 10:28:35 This is very handy now, as my tv was doing some odd things last night, just need it to replicate over the next few days and i might have a domestic business case to go HD, and i can confirm there was no spilled tea involved!
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: @MacPhlea on Friday, April 3, 2009, 13:17:30 This is very handy now, as my tv was doing some odd things last night, just need it to replicate over the next few days and i might have a domestic business case to go HD, and i can confirm there was no spilled tea involved! soapy tit wank! My missus can't believe that she's got away with us keeping the same telly for 15 years - what she doesn't realise is that when it does go wrong (or when I drop it ;-) ) I'll use it's lifespan as part of the ROI calculation i.e. perceived value having a TV per day = 50p (£181 per year) x Life expectancy (15 Years) = £2715 = Panasonic Kuro 50" :) Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: suttonred on Friday, April 3, 2009, 13:18:29 I like your business model, i'll be plagiarising that thanks!
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: Simon Pieman on Friday, April 3, 2009, 13:27:31 Don't forget to factor in the time value of money. I think your model is flawed ;)
Title: Re: Blu Ray Post by: suttonred on Friday, April 3, 2009, 13:29:29 It's only flawed if his mrs reads this forum otherwise its the old bs baffles brains model, that always works.
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