Thetownend.com

I know I shouldn't of listened to the after match texts but so many against Fitton and Wilson, what are these clowns on? when does it actually become the players fault? firstly its Malpas...then Byrne and Williams...now Wilson and Fitton. 

I am sorry but am I the only one who has had enough of these fucking bottlers playing for our club? and think that the large part of responsibility for our failure lies at the feet of the players. 

I have faith in Fitton and Wilson to get us up the leagues just will need a big overhaul of the players in the summer. 

What do these people actually think would happen if Fitton walked? were in a recession theres not lots of potential investors saying I would love to invest in a failing football club that may never make money. 

Some of the people that texted in after that game should never show up again, you need to get a grip shit players = shit results it does not matter who the board or manager are.

It's because we're a mess. Making the County Ground look presentable can only go so far. People pay to watch football and this season....?

Fittons fucked up and I dont have much faith in the board to be honest.The fact that the last board were even worse doesnt make this lot better,neither does the fact that theres probably no other option.

i agree with you on most parts but i do feel a little investment into the playing squad would not go a miss!

It's a shame that the new boards fixing of the backroom stuff hasn't coincided with on pitch success. As I said in the matchday thread, I think that talk of Championship in three years has been more damaging than Malpas or fucking about appointing his replacement. I guess I'm presuming fans would have understood if Fitton had come out and said that it might take some time to sort things out and get it right. Although maybe not.

I'm also right behind Fitton and Wilson.  But I'm not surprised that some of our fans are having a pop.  On current form, we're going down....and some of our fans will inevitably start looking for someone to blame.  The Manager and the Chairman are going to be near the top of the list.

I think people associate takeovers (by people without dodgy links) with success. Fitton and his consortium are clearly in this for the right reasons - but they appear to be quite naive on the football side.

I couldn't run a football club.

Nothing to do with making things look presentable for me just having a club to support is enough, dread to think what we would be like in the current climate with the old board, would have to assume it would be very similar to Cheltenham though with us having to sell a lot and cling on to even existing.  

To vent anger away from players who have under performed for a 2nd season I feel is wrong and I find it hard to see what voicing anger at a board who without there funds we would not exist now and wont exist in the future.  Mistakes have been made but this summer we have a real chance to finally clear out some of the shit and build a good squad.

I'd rather be in League Two than be AFC Swindon of the Western League - we all would.

I am pro-Fitton and pro-Wilson - However, promises were made and League Two was not one of them.

If we were all feeling perfectly rational, the fans would cut Mr Fitton and other board members about 10 years of slack...simply because they rid us of Diamandis and put the club on a more sustainable financial footing.

But no one supports a football club to be rational.  I'm sure the board know and appreciate that.  They will be expecting the criticism.

Right, I've calmed down after the game and FlammableBen will pleased to know I've had some cake, so I think I've got my rational and sensible head on...

There are a few reasons why Fitton and Wilson get stick. I'll talk about Fitton first.

The first reason why Fitton gets stick is because, just like every other football club we have a selection of fans who are thick, stupid, idiots and far too critical of anyone and everything and always want something to moan about. No matter what brilliant things Fitton does some of our fans will always find the smallest thing to complain about.

The second and in my opinion main reason is because we're a football club. To the casual arm chair fans we need to get through the turnstyles to make some money football is all that matters. Of course I'm happy that we have a stable club for the first time in ages but Johnny Unitedarmchair fan doesnt give a toss does he? Us being stable isnt going to motivate him to gte out of his armchair and come to the County Ground at all.

Doing up the CG and sorting out finances will only get you so far. To most people rightly or wrongly the on pitch situation is what matters. We've gone horribly backwards this season on the pitch. We've gone from a mid table L1 side to a L2 side in less than a year, no fan is going to be happy about that. No fan is going to enjoy the gash we've been servered this season.

Since Fitton has been in charge the footballing side of things has gone backwards at quite an alarming rate. I think Pullen said it best and in such a simple way.


When people even some fans who have been going for years think Swindon Town Football Club they think the team, the players, the league, the results....not how much money did we lose last season, are we under our wage budget? fact is alot of people dont care about those things and just hope they take care of themselves.

The other point is, since old Roman the Russian took over Chelsea and bought instant success alot of people think 'takeover=success' and thats not the case. Fitton has alot of money which he is earnt, so fair play to him and the others but they arent going to pump loads of it isnt STFC. We are going to be signing players for 250k, 500k, 1m etc. Not for years, if ever again.

What with the cheap season ticket prices I expect alot of our 'fans' are in their first year recently. Their mind set will be 'takeover = money = buying players = success = winning = good football' and thats not the case.

I've mentioned time and time again this season that there is a crew of people I havent seen before who sit near me (...and also Tails and Dave) they are moany bastards and they didnt even turn up to Franchise, none of 7 or 8 of them. They wont be back next season, they expected better....why? expectation levels. Talking of the Championship were much too optimistic and stupidly for what ever reason people believed in them.

Again, if I'm being brutally honest the management situation hiring Malpas, the sacking of Malpas, the hiring of Wilson has all been piss poor. Say what you like but it took too long.


I dont feel finishing 13th last season in our first season after promotion was under performing. I remember us playing well and getting some decent results last season?

I say this time and time again, thats what has annoyed me the most this season this squad was good enough last season for a mid table finish. Miguel Comminges only isnt the difference between 13th and 21st.


We had the same chance this summer but we barely got rid of anyone.

I feel a bit harsh critising Wilson because it still doesnt seem like he has been that long but the bottom line is, apart from Big Kev nothing has improved under Wilson. I think Reg pointed out, points wise he is doing worse than Malpas was.

Wilson has good pedigree as a manager but on the face of things he's had very little impact. On the flip Crewes new manager has got them alot of wins.

At the end of the day people pay to watch the football, alot will block out/not care about all the off field things and the fact is this season has been shit on the field and people want someone to blame, and its a chain

blame the players but Danny Wilson manages the players but the board picked Danny Wilson but they arent Danny Wilsons players but the board havent given him money to spend on his players.

Fitton & Co raised our hopes for STFC. Perhaps we need to accept we wont go anything above mid table L1 for a very long time.

I said a similar thing on the matchday thread but feel the need to reiterate here.  This club needs stability.  The short memories of some surprise me greatly.  I remember just a few years back being at a game at Brentford (the season we just survived later that season, invincibile, rovers and all that...) and not being sure that next week we would even have a football club.  Relegation or not, we need stability.  It's been lacking at this club for years.  Let the current board get on and run the club fiscally and let Wilson build his own team on the pitch, again within the fiscal management of the board.

I'm still enjoying the fact that the stories in the newspapers of administration, liqidisation, lock outs etc have not mentioned us for a couple of years now.  Lets remember that and view this period as a long term rebuilding project.  If that involves relegation, then so be it.

Harping on about the past and admistration,etc annoys the fuck out of me.Do do we have to be gratefull all the way to the conference?

I don't think paper talk of a "consortium worth x hundered million" helped much. Expectations were raised that we had become the Chelsea (or is that Man City) of league 1. But the truth of the matter is we don't have X hundred million available to the football club. We are at our or over playing budget limit now.

I don't think dicking around while changing manager was helpful either.

But strangely I feel more at ease with Wilson in charge but sitting in the relegation zone than I did with Malpas in charge when we were out the drop zone. Long term anyway. I think we are probably fucked this season.

I think people are going over the top with criticism.

The board have made mistakes, and Wilson hasn't come in and made everything perfect, BUT I'd say a lot of it is down to the players. They lost all confidence under Malpas, and when Wilson came in he got them playing better football. We've seen much better performances recently. The problems are the crap performances scattered in between and the failure to stick the ball in the back of the net and finish a game off. I still think we have a great chance of staying up. Looking at this set of fixtures we could easily do the same as last season and make a nice break away from the drop zone:
Hereford (H)
Northampton (A)
Yeovil (A)
Crewe (H)
Brighton (A)
Leyton Orient (H)
Carlisle (A)
Bristol Rovers (H)

Nothing is guaranteed, but every single one of those games is winnable and I think THAT spell will be the one that decides our fate.

trouble is there's loads of people hoping you're wrong just so they can say they were right and ensure the adulation of the man they see in the mirror every morning.

there are far too many different agendas - who gives a fucking shit who is right? if we stay up then we all win don't we?  far too many people seeing our failure as a personal success because that's what they predicted.

time for us all to give a shit about the cumulative rather than whatever else anyone thinks might be important - i couldn't care less if someone correctly predicts a loss, we're either all in this together or we're not.

If our fan base showed more loyalty and didnt spend time skiing we'd deffintly stay up..

cunt, i'm a snowboarder...

Oh ,thats ok then.

Well said that man.

damn right. :)

I don't think the Board should be immune to any criticism but I do wonder how things could be different.

A lot of mismanagment has occurred with player contracts and in my opinion this has ensured the Board are stuck with a load of staff which aren't doing much. You shouldn't offer lengthy deals to fringe players at this level, yet we let Pook put a silly clause in his contract, daddy did Blair a favour and we also had to pay off the players who formed part of the previous 'takeover'.

Half our problems on the pitch stem from the fact that a large proportion of our squad are Sturrock old boys, who don't want to play for anyone but Sturrock.

We also failed to offer a contract to our best player (in that season) and Commingues took his chance at a higher level because we didn't act soon enough.

We're stuck with the shit we've got and short of the Board buying out every player's contract, there was little scope for them to bring wholesale changes. That said, who has been brought in since the Board took over:

Cox
Timlin
McNamee
Kanyuka
Amankwaah
Nalis
Marshall
Casal
Razak
Lescinel

Loans:

Greer
Kanu
Tudur Jones

(probably others I can't remember).

It's not like the Board have said we can't get anyone in. The ones which we got after trials probably aren't on much, but I reckon the others earn decent wages. We're stuck with a shit team because of poor decisions by the managers.

http://forum.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5436

The board certainly should not be immune to criticism. Yes they saved the club- which for we are eternally grateful but since they took charge there is no disguising the fact that grave mistakes have been made on the pitch.
 
1) The appointment of Malpas
2) The continuation of Byrne/Williams/Granville being coaches- under 2 new managers and still obvious that this is not working
3) Took too long to Sack Malpas
4) Took too long to appoint a successor

I am sure relegation was not part of the 3 year plan. I think the fans want to see some indication of the action to arrest our decline- which has not been evident. Lets face it if teams like Colchester who get gates of under 4000 can compete in league one then we are entitled to be pissed off when we cant .

Personally i think the coaches are a big part of the problem- Wilson must be allowed his own backroom staff. There is a bad egg in the camp and i would not be suprised if it is Byrne.

That saying- Wilsons record since he took over- by points per game is worse than Malpas.

Cannot sign of without mentioning the players- too many do not give a shit about STFC- whatever happens get rid of as many as possible in the summer. Many have played under 3 managers now and are still shit- says it all.

I am extremely grateful to Mr.Fitton for saving this club and making us very well run off the pitch for the first time in years.

The board wiped out the debts and things off the pitch could not be better, they communicate properly with the fans and are open and honest, something which could not be said about the old board.

The season ticket deal was good, the pitch looks great, the seats in the arkells look so much better and the paint job makes it look a lot better too so off the pitch there is no problem and the board can take the credit for that.

However a lot of mistakes have been made and they can be criticised, i believe that not dealing with agents is an important factor and one of the main reasons why we struggled to sign players in the summer, this will be the case this summer too and it will prove even more difficult if we are relegated, i think Fitton should start dealing with agents otherwise we are only going to sign piss poor players like casal, marshall etc.

Appointing Malpas was obviously a terrible mistake and Malpas is partly responsible for how things have turned out this season, he should have been sacked way before he was actually sacked, i personally expected him to be sacked when we lost at home to Huddersfield, that was after losing at home to Millwall, Leeds and Colchester, Danny Wilson is a much better manager with a better track record and i don't blame him for our results because he has to work with a shower of shite.

The board dithered and messed around far too much with Malpas, they should have seen the warning signs earlier, we all saw them early in the season when teams kept beating us at home, they should have dismissed him much earlier and they should have lined someone else up before sacking him as we took weeks to appoint a new manager, it was a mess and a shambles and that could really cost us although i'm not sure because the players we have got are terrible and have not perfomed all season apart from one or two.

The board have said things which will come back to bite them on the arse such as the 3 year plan to get into the championship which has totally gone down the shitter and we are going totally the opposite way to where we should be going, we have gone backwards dramatically on the pitch under this board.

Also Watkins saying we are good enough to stay up or we shouldn't be in this position, that's deluded, this team is so poor if we went down no-one could honestly say that we didn't deserve to be relegated this season has been a total shambles, after all the expectation in the summer and people's hopes were built up and it has turned into a nightmare.

Also i feel that the coaching at the club is something that really does need to be sorted out, why has Fitton kept on the three clowns Byrne, Williams & Granville? They are poor coaches and should have been shown the door when Malpas was sacked, I believe that Wilson should have been able to bring in his own coaches, it has obvious that those 3 are just not good enough, for a start the goalkeepers have been truly awful this season and Granville has to be responsible for that.
I believe we would be much better off getting rid of them and also i think Fitton made a bad mistake by keeping them on when Malpas went, his judgement on them has been poor.

The players have no passion, no fight and no bottle whatsoever and don't seem interested but they are not bothered if we get relegated, they are only bothered about their pay packets but Malpas's signings have been awfully crap, until Wilson gets rid of all the dead wood and makes this team his own only then will things change for the better.

We need a massive cull in the summer regardless of whether we stay up or not otherwise things will not improve.

Players like Marshall, P.Smith, Aljofree, Mcgovern, Pook, Easton, Paynter, Sturrock, Corr, Lescinel, Casal, Nalis, Peacock etc need to go, Cox is really the only decent player we have and he will be gone in the summer, being in League Two will lower his value as well.

There's a lot of things that need sorting, the board have done a lot of good things but i can't help but feel they have let us down on the pitch with poor decision and maybe a lack of investment in the team.

I feel that this is a fair and honest opinion.

Look at Peterborough United. Their chairman (albeit he sounds dodgy as hell) has thrown money left, right and centre at their team and look at where they are now. Darren Ferguson has done a great job there and he has had the backing of the chairman to bring in whichever players he wants.

And what do Posh get for this backing on the pitch? Almost guaranteed promotion to the Championship and a young talented squad capable of pushing on.
 

Conversely, look at Cheltenham, a model many of the fiercest critics (yes, I'm looking at you Bart) wanted us to follow. Got in Martin Allen, gave him money to spend on the squad, which he did with some abandon, albeit on loan players' wages and all they've got to show for it is well adrift at the bottom of the league, the entire first team squad up for sale, staff being sacked left right and centre and struggling to stave off administration, never mind relegation. Just throwing money at it doesn't work.

bart thats the best post you have ever made on the tef. good arguements with well reasoned points to back them, keep it up.

Has to be judged at the end of the season ....

I predicted defeat last night and on Saturday but I feel we will win the majority of the home games and get enough points to survive ... just!

If we dont then Fitton will find out just how few people will go to the County Ground in League 2!

Trouble is the players arnt shit. We played Franchise of the pitch. We've drawn with Leicester home and away. When they are in the mood they can give anyone in this division a game as our record against the better teams shows - its almost play off form.

The issue is clearly psycological. I'm not sure it comes from the management, as its been the same since Sturrock really.  its an issue with the group of players being weak willed and "nice" in my opinion.  I know most lower league players are incosistant by nature, but other sides mangae to put runs together. Our team cant as they get out-battled by poor physical sides.

I'd agree with 90% of this, but I don't know about "the players aren't shit" - no they're not, but being able to produce a decent performance one game in six or so doesn't make them great either. And with a few honourable exceptions, that's what we've got. It's like non-league sides that go on a Cup run, yeah, sure for a few one-off games they can really turn it on, especially against higher League sides that are complacent or think they're better than they are (like us), but would anyone seriously argue that Curzon's players were anything other than where they deserved to be or Histon's for that matter. Take nothing away from the spirit required to go on those runs, or to pull out all the stops away at Leicester, but it's what you do week in, week out that makes you good or makes you shit. And on that basis, the League table is delivering the verdict loud and clear - and our players are not good. Whether that's down to lack of ability, lack of effort, or a problem with mental strength or simple complacency makes no odds - they're not good enough and the majority should go.

Or, you could subscribe to Bart's view that we actually have an excellent squad of real world-beaters, were it not for evil Dave Byrne and his evil sidekicks who are secretly poisoning the team's half-time cuppas with a secret will-sapping potion. Dagnabbit, we'd be in the UEFA Cup next season were it not for that blackguard Byrne!

Spot on R4E!

I would rather have a club in Div 2 than no club at all.

Fitton made two key mistakes.

1. Malpas

2. Too long to replace Malpas

AND so we pay the price for it...............

Im already looking at next season wherever we end up......a massive overhaul is required.

Managers and directors / owners will always get some abuse. Only exception to that this season is Man Utd, though if they don't win all 5 trophies I'm sure someone will say something. That's just the way football is.

Everyone knows Fitton has made mistakes and I've got some questions myself about Danny Wilson but you need to put that in context. The club has a sound financial footing for the first time in a long time and that alone is enough for me. I think we'll stay up and will be challenging for the playoffs next season. If the worst happens and we do go down, we'll be challenging for the title in League 2. I can cope with either.

My biggest complaint at present is the match day catering. The shit football would be less painful if you had something decent to eat at half time, without having to queue up for 20 minutes.

I quite enjoyed our time in league 2. Most of the grounds are pretty bad but it has that touch of the old skool which I enjoyed. Obviously it helped we were doing well. I seem to remember the football played by both us and our opposition as not being terribly great, but we could produce an exciting match.

If we went down and that remained the same I think I'd actually look forward to it. My main fear is we end up doing an Oxford. Obviously I want us to stay up and do all those things in League One though!

But the players are shit. As well as they played against Franchise, they were fucking terrible in other home games against Colchester, Huddersfield, Millwall, Yeovil, Hartlepool, 'Nam, Brighton etc. Our players are not inconsistent if they play a good 1 in 6 - they are consistently shit in the other 5. If we put our whole squad up for sale, who would attract bids - Cox and Morrison. A couple of others would go on frees - the others would have to retire or play no league.
We're where we are for a reason and that is that we have shown consistecy - consistent shit.

But thats the point I'm making chalkies shorts. 

The good performances show that they are not shit because they have reasonable ability in the main.

Shit players have little ability. they cant raise themselves to outplay the better teams in the league because it is above their potential level of performance. Some of the very same players were decent last season. Easton was in the running for POTS!

What they dont have is mental strength or the will to battle against limited but hardworking sides.

Dont get me wrong I want a clear out in the summer as well. Having ability means fuck all if you aint got the balls to impose yourself on the opposition.  I dont agree with other clubs not wanting any of our players either. They are not going to go for big fees or probablly any fee at all but very few in the lower leagues do.  Other league clubs would take Ifil, Aljofree, J smith, Vincent, Macnamee, Easton, McGovern, Paynter to name a few. As individuals they are all fairly decent in my view.  as a group they've massively underperformed. They've all had decent pro careers, and to suggest they'd all be playing in the conference as a result of one dire season in league 1 is laughable.

The bottom line is we are where we are for a reason, and it dosnt really matter what that reason is.  But I stand by my opinion that most of our players are not shit. they lack character as a group.

I think our players are shit because they lack character when playing in a group.

 :D Very good.

I think you're shit

I think the board put their foot in it with the "Championship within 3 years" comment. A lot of people thought this would mean immediate progress on the pitch, but in reality it's been the opposite.

I know it's very far-fetched and very unlikey, but my worry is the board could realise the club isn't fit for their ambitions and just up-sticks and leave us in the shit again.

If we do end up getting relegated, then Fitton needs to reassess his "won't pay agents" and "not going to throw money at the club" stance. I'm not saying he's got to spend millions, but if you look at the teams who've been promoted from L2 in recent years, those who've spent a bit to get themselves out have done alright and are now benefiting - Hull, Swansea, Stockport, Milton Keynes. If we don't spend any money then we'll end up similar to the likes of Wycombe, Bradford and Shrewsbury who've just yo-yo'd up and down L2.

I'm fine with spending money on players, but there is no correlation between paying agents fees and success.  Someone posted on here recently that of the clubs who didnt pay agents in the last reported year, most seemed to be doing ok. I dont see why league 1 clubs need to be paying agents. the deals are not complex.

Unless he thinks he can go down and go straight up 2 divisions a bit like the Dongs or P'boro may do and what we did under Macari.

Macari is a legend. You cannot compare this rabble (players & management) with the glory days.

I think the Board are going to be forced to spend more money out of their own pockets. They've invested a lot of money and to walk away now would mean losing a lot. Not to mention - they'd need to find a buyer.  In the current financial mess the world is in that's really not likely.

Maybe there are degrees of what they'll be willing to do. I think luckily for us we're not deemed to be a get rich quick scheme with a ground development, or if we are then Fitton has done a lot of amazing and unnecessary work to disguise that. The key is sustainability but it doesn't mean we have to be sustainably shit. I'm sure Fitton has ambitions beyond bottom half of league one, let alone bottom half of league 2. Could this season have been forseen? I'm unsure. On the one hand we were mediocre the term before but most of us expected better than that this year, not worse. Why should the Board be any different?

In summary: The Board have only stuffed up if they let the team continue on its downward trend. A recovery would mean the five year plan is a bit fucked, but that often happens with strategic plans. What's key is adapting to changes in the situation in order to get the ultimate goal you're looking for.

Whose money are the board supposed to be spending?  They've shelled at fair wedge of their own money already, by clearing the debts. The club runs at a loss and the majority of Swindon residents wouldn't give a toss if the club folded.
We need to be realistic. We haven't got a Swindon Town fan running the club, we've got level headed businessmen in charge who have already invested in a product that fails to generate profit. When do they stop pumping in cash?
I would rather be in League 2, starting on nil points net season, as opposed to spending money the club doesn't have and ending up there in a couple of years on -15.
The club is finally being run properly, if it takes a couple of seasons before we've got a team that can match what's happened off-field, so what?
Everyone seems to demand and expect instant success.

Totally agree Hertha, and with some of what Si pie said.   

Was it unreasonable of the board to expect an improvment this season given that we finished 13th had coxy to look forward to all season and macca was looking like the best player in the division at the end of last season / pre season? 

Most people on here seemed to think that.

I dont expect instant sucess and I'm willing to wait. Some money pumped into the team would be nice, but I dont expect the owners to do that just because they have money. i dont give every penny i have to STFC so why should they?

We already have a massive squad, its not the boards fault that malpas signed shit players (Casal, Nalis in the main) and several players who we could do without had contracts already (sturrock, pook) 

Well said Herthab.

Though I'd hope we will at least maintain our league status running this tight ship, don't think I could take relegation to the conference.

Great post by the divine bald one.

On another note, Ive kind of convinced myself were going down now so am coming to accept it.  I was away for the league two season before so theres loads of grounds I haven't done which I'd quite like to do :D

Look all of this is bollocks and those that have a pop at the boarrd over this are out of order.

It's legitimate to get the hump with the chairman when the clubs on it's arse, bills aren't being paid, season tickets prices for next season are announced and they've doubled, and the bastards still flying to away games in a rented helicopter at the clubs expense.

It's legitimate to have a pop if the manager is doing his best to get you out of trouble but is constantly hampered by the playing budget, and then they sell his best player on transfer deadline day. (I grew up watching Swindon in our best times under Macari, Ardiles and Hoddle and that happened just about every bloody season - but not this year or last. We have a decent sized squad, Wilson's been allowed to add to it. Since the new board have been in place the playing staff budget has been bigger than a lot of clubs in this division and right on the border line of the leagues wages to turnover ratio).

You can also have a go if the chairman has clearly appointed a mate as manager and stuck with him despite him being shit. (But most of you were happy with the Wilson appointment, despite my dire warnings, and most of you aren't looking for him to be sacked now).


So what exactly is it that you moaning bastards want Fitton to do that he isn't doing now? Or are you all just throwing the toys out of the pram because things aren't going the way you want them to and someone has to be to blame?

I don't think throwing money around to get new players in is the answer, as I don't think we'd improve the team that much without spending big money which would be pointless and stupid. We shouldn't be in the drop zone with the players we've got, its mainly due to Malpas but partly due to Wilson not turning things around as quickly as we needed him to.

If Wilson can get things to click (and he needs to do it quickly) then we'll end up mid table and will be laughing about the time we talked about getting relegated. Even if he doesn't and we do go down its not the end of the world, there will still be a clear out and re-grouping over the summer and things will be better next season. If we're in League 1 we'll challenge for the play offs and if we're in League 2 we'll challenge for the title.

Things could be a lot worse, look at Luton for a good example of that.

People moaned at the Board in charge when we were promoted to the highest league we've ever played in.  Nothing will ever be good enough, so there is no point worrying about them.

Well the league table doesn't lie. The players aren't good enough. Simple as.

As I've been saying all day its not that simple at all.  The players have the potential to be good enough when they are up for it.  There is plenty of evidence of that. 

Why have we lost 10/12/15 points or whatever it actually is with last minute goals conceded?  Is it beacuse they are not good enough or is it a mental thing?  If they are good enough to be winning after 88 mins surely that is a sign that they are not as hapless as you make out?

Yes the league table does not lie. but for every abject performance this season there is another when we have played quite well and not won.  Again I dont see this as an issue of quality, more one of mental strength and character.

I'm going to stop going on about this now.  maybe.

Thing is CT, you say they're good enough on the basis that they can occasionally play well. They don't consistently or even usually. On that basis they may well have the potential to be good enough, but as it stands they just aren't. Equally, they're not shit either, the fact they can occasionally pull a performance out of the bag shows as you say the potential's there. But that's all it is. Until they can do it consistently (or in fact I'd settle for "often"), the majority aren't not good enough.

i suppose thats true.

It just does my head in knowing they can do so much better.  If we had played half as well against Hartlepool or Cheltenham as we did the Dongs then we'd be 6 points better off for a start, let alone the rest of the season.

I'd find it a lot easier to take if we were outright shit, with some very limited players,  took some proper beatings off the good teams and scraped some points against the shit.

whatever it is Toddy, it isn't – and hasn't been – working. And whatever it is, it needs to be sorted out when we play the nine games against teams in the bottom half, otherwise we're fucked. We can;t afford to have potential anymore, it's time to start winning games. Sod playing well, we need points by any means.

It's no good having potential if you don't fulfil it or show it on a consistent basis. It's not like we're talking about young players here either, there's enough experience and ability in our squad to be able to finish mid-table. None of us would be so bothered if that were the case, but this bunch of underachieving clowns has got us into a right mess that, personally, I don't think we're going to get out of.

And whether that's down to Malpas, the players, Wilson or a combination of them all - it doesn't matter, If Wilson sorts it out now no-one will remember how shit this season's been. It'll be consigned to the history books and we'll move on, with Wilson's populairty assured. It f*cks me off everyone saying it's Malpas' fault. Yeah he was awful, but we weren't in the bottom four when he left and he's been gone three months. This is everyone's fault, and the players and manager need to work together to sort it out. It's their responsibility now.

It's a fine line isn't it. We were great against Leicester/ Franchise and organised at Millwall, yet here we are struggling to win a game.

It's still in our own hands and I still believe Wilson is a good thing for this club, regardless of whether we stay up or not. We're not the only team struggling for form at the moment so there'll be ups and downs in the next 11 games. The key one for me is the first one or two against the shitter teams. Lose them and all confidence will be gone.

If we do go down I can't help but feel slightly cheated. There's no way this side should have been in this position in the first place IMO, but if we do slip up it will be because the players either weren't that bothered, complacent or simply didn't have the bottle at various stges of the season, and that will hurt so much more than being shit.

Regardless of all that, I'll be there to the end of this season and back for next, whatever the division. I just hope that all the players who don't share our passion find somewhere new to play. I'd much rather see a team battle it out and win some/lose some than have to put up with what we've had to watch this year, the few positive performances aside.

 

totally agree juddie

Just been saying exactly that to a work colleague who was puzzled at our predicament

even if we had a mass clear out of players,we will only end up with more of the same calibre anyway.what is key, is a manager being able to get the best out of what mr fitton will fund,whether that be new, or remaining players at stfc.
not convinced wilson is capable of this personally.if he isn't, and fitton doesn't dig a bit deeper to fund transfers of higher calibre players, we will not really progress imo.
hopefully wilson is good enough to get players doing well on a limited budget, but he hasn't exactly had a start that would suggest he is.

Looking at last years table is interesting, it has been assumed that the players were good enough therefore they should have been able to move up the league this season. However this appears to have been more in hope than judgement. We effectively haven't improved the team and thus have stood still. The 6 places we've lost can be explained from the table by the two demoted teams, two promoted teams and two other teams, Milwall and Rovers improving.

Well said Juddie. If we go down, I will feel very cheated by the players.

 Wilson did manage to get the Monkey Hangers out of L2, so at least he knows the requirement...a decent keeper...a couple of rugged centre halves and goals from all round the park.

They get stick because our fans are fucking idiots!

If this was a comment from Bart, I'd be asking for a little bit more detail.... So - could you elaborate please Tails :)

has there been any today?

Not likely but serious questions need to be asked.