Thetownend.com

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7816500.stm

Oh good, now you have summoned Ironside.

I thought it was a fair and balanced article and the two unemployed people being interview made some decent points.

I read that earlier.

Whilst the people in question are obviously thick as fuck, there is a valid point there somewhere.

In the last few years, as a nation we have footed the bill for people like them to do nowt whilst we imported millions of eastern europeans to do the work our own unemployed could do either willingly or basically be forced to do.

I've nothing at all against the eastern eurpean workers, they were just taking advantage of a situation to do what was best for themselves and their families like anyone would.

But the basic logic of the government allowing this to happen is madness really.  Paying millions of the idigenous population to sit on their arses (and vote labour) whilst importing foreigners to work who often send large portions of their income home and thus make a negligable economic contribution to this country beggars belief really. 

Still, the credit crunch sorted that problem out.

Its the attitude I don't like. There were plenty of jobs out there, some people are just very picky.

There was a program a while back about a farmer had to employ eastern europeans because the local unemployed wouldn't do the job. It was £12 an hour for picking butternut squash on a farm!

Your middle-class-white-man-gets-shit-on complex is wearing a bit thin these days, CT. Do you really think you've got it that bad?

What the fuck are you on about?   That post has got nothing to do with white middle class people getting shit on, let alone me.

I dont think I've got anything bad, I'm pretty happy with my life thanks.

I just happen to not like the current government, which is the subject of the post above if you actually took the time to read it.

I read that and well it doesnt really tell the whole story.

There isnt as many jobs out there as there were even 6 months ago and from personal experience finding work can be tough.

However, judging from what was said these two arent making much effort. Companies will take on young people but companies probably tend to shy away from taking on people who have been laid off from all their previous jobs, have no qualifications and havent worked for 3 years!!

The thing that some people fail to realise is that there's a huge under-class of thick, scummy, lazy, useless bastards who are unable to function usefully in todays society.

Before DMR accuses me of being a 'middle-class warrior', I was brought up on a council estate and consider myself working-class, but I manage to lead a (relatively) productive life and contribute to society.

All the hand wringing and do gooders in the world won't be able to help some people, because they're lazy bastards.

Before everyone has a pop, I'm not talking about everyone who's out of work and obviously in deprived areas of the Country unemployment will be higher, but there is a large percentage who would rather do fuck all and sponge of the rest of us.

I'd never consider you middle class pal ;)

I agree Herthab - amazing how that point of view never comes across in the immigration debate isn't it ?

Cheers. I take that as a complment :D

Quite. Instead of the cry of 'They're Stealing Our Jobs!' We should recognise the fact that most legal immigrants come here, work their bollocks off and quite often in jobs that our homegrown lazy fuckwits consider beneath them.

Spot on Hertha. The whole employment / benefits system needs scraping and starting again.

Some of the people you refer to should be able to do something vaguely useful with the right training and a state sponsored kick up the arse. ie lose benefit money if you dont take this job.

The system should be structured to provide an incentive to work, ie a minimum wage job should lead to a greater income than sitting on the dole, with the all housing benefit etc that comes with it.

agree with hethab too.sterilising the britsh dregs who breed like rabbits and live on benefits would be a start.they are a much bigger drain and problem, than hard working immigrants,who pay tax.

As CT made the point, surely its a complete and utter failing by this government not provide enough training and support to these people?  

They took the easy option and instead of investing time and money in them, they imported people to the jobs instead.  In doing so they condemmed them to a life in the underclass.

A minimum wage job does pay a lot more than the doll doesn't it? Maybe not if you add in housing benefit as well, but I thought you can still get that if you weren't earning much?

Say 1 in 5 doll claimers are taking the piss with no intention of getting a job. Is it worth punishing the other 4 to get at them? Especially in the current economic climate.

There's always got to be incentives, but there has to be the right balance of the carrot and stick. Beat people who already aren't doing so well further into poverty and you start taking away their chances of turning it around.

I'm sure there are plenty out there who thought they were completely safe 6months ago, who are now pretty pleased the safety net is there.

people on non disabilty benefits should have to do community work to earn their money and council homes.they could clean graffitti,pick up litter,etc,etc.

The thing is they don't want support or training. We've been trying the carrot for years, now's the time to try the stick.

As Arriba said, make it impossible not to work if you're able. There's enough public works that can be done and if people were forced, I'm sure they would start looking at training for other employment.

There's a big difference between a safety net and a lifestyle choice Ben.

I'm not saying punish anyone, I'm advocating a program where, if you can work, you do work.

How the heck do you make impossible not to work these days?

Last I heard there weren't that many jobs kicking about.... Unless being made redundant is a job. You say public works but who's gonna fund that then?

I dont disagree with anything you have said Ben.

My understanding is that if an unemployed person on full benefits took a min wage job then they may well be worse off in total through a large fall in total benefits even though a full time min wage job obviously pays more than the dole.  This is fucking stupid. In their position i'm not sure i'd bother getting out of bed to do a shit job and end up no better off at the  end of the week.

The carrot should be net income (wages + benefit "top ups") being significantly higher than doing nothing.

The stick should be a cut in benefits if they refuse to take a job.

Obviously now isnt the time to be doing any of this because the economy is fucked and unemployment is rising.  But labour did have 10 years of "good times" to do something about this issue and chose to import eastern europeans instead as Ironside stated.

It's already being paid for in the way of benefits and dole. Wouldn't cost much more than we already shell out.

The flippant response would be to ask well what's the point then, just as well leave it then have people half-arsing about in some job they're forced into for the sake of it? Not that I'd ever be flippant.

The point Dave is at least they'd be contributing, instead of dossing around and getting involved in shit. It would also kick start some of them to actually go into training/look for other jobs.

I don't mind paying for education, the elderly, people with disabilities, etc, but I do object to helping able bodied people doss.

(Fucking hell, I'm making Ironside look like a Liberal!)

I wouldn't go that far, you haven't blamed the darkies yet.

Good point.

I saw Question Time about 6-8 weeks ago and they had Hazel Blears on stating there were still approximately 600k vacancies in the UK (Funnily enough that's about the same number that the government used 11 years ago when they opened up the borders to all and sundry, wonder why they haven't filled them bearing in mind we've seen the population shoot up up by 5 million, that we know about?)

Adittionally, Mad McBroon has already stated his desire "spend his way out of recession" by funding a massive "public works" building programme.

I,ts a fine line isnt it...my gripe is that people who work hard should be given a little extra help...i do 40-60 hours per week,thats my choice and i pay out tax,nat insurance and on top of that 25 per week council tax.....in all over 200 pounds per week thats 10,000 per year....probably half a million pounds in my life time,i want to work extra at the weekend...no point because its a second job and my tax goes up to 40%!!!...ware the fuk is the help and incentive there for someone who just wants to work more....

Didn't she also point out this was about 120,000 or so down on last year or did I read that elsewhere? I'm not really sure how far you can read in to that number anyway. Where are these jobs in relation to areas of high unemployment? Skilled work? 1 hour a week positions?

Plenty of jobs available isnt in question....living on the wages they pay is.

People are definately better off working than on benefits, they just can't see it. What they like is their life at home with everything paid for them. They don't want to have to work and actually contribute towards their rent.

Anyone's income which is low (especially couples/families) would be suprised how much benefit they are entitled to.

I've worked in Housing/Council Tax Benefits for 4 1/2 yrs so know all about it, worked in the Jobcentre before that.

The vast majority of people do want to work, just there is the minority who consider it their "right" to have their rent and council tax paid, and won't do anything to earn it.

We had people who would eventually take a job, then be back two days later as it didn't work out! They did it on purpose. People who hadn't worked since school (some of them in their 30's).

Loads of single mums (whose partner lived with them, it's hard proving it and getting it through court). They had kids when Income Support was about to end and they were due to go on Jobseeker's Allowance so that they could stay on income support and not have to look for work etc.

It's a real eye-opener working in these places, i wouldn't have realised a lot of what went on before i worked in it.