Thetownend.com

...“It’s a leasehold situation currently, but we would love to make it a freehold situation" (http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/4021528.Town_still_keen_to_stay_put/) mean, and why would it change the whole complexion of our balance sheet?

Leasehold means we don't own the actual land that the stadium is built on, only the bricks and mortar. We lease (rent) the land from the council.

Freehold would mean we'd own the ground 'beneath' the bricks and mortar as well, which becomes an tangible asset which can be shown on the balance sheet. And quite a sizeable asset at that.

So how would we go about doing that?

I imagine the price of land is relatively cheap these days?

Buy the freehold from the council.

And I imagine it won't be cheap at all, a piece of land the size of the CG footprint in the centre of Swindon would easily fetch a couple of million.

Oh I know it won't be cheap-cheap, but cheaper than it was, say, 12 months ago?

Probably, yes.

So, go on, give me a ball park figure here...

£10m?

But isn't it a little more complicated than just stumping up the cash and signing the paperwork?

I forget the full details bus doesn't the covenant include the CG Extension?

Is the rent £800k a year? That figure was in my mind.

Can't say central Swindon real estate prices is my forte.


Yeah, something like that. But I'm talking layman's terms.


Closer to £250k I think.

Just checked the 2006/2007 accounts and the figure given there is £239,761.

Whilst I am here, I found this interesting website a little while back:

http://www.footballeconomy.com/index.htm

If you go to 'Football Clubs' then you can have a nosey at everyone else's business; something that I rather enjoy doing.

I believe that the whole complex, extension, cricket ground and bowls club is subject to a covenant as it was given to the people of Swindon by the Goddard family.  This means that the council controls the whole site.  To enable the directors to buy the freehold would need a fairly complicated legal process and would the council be prepared to sell the car park as well as I would have thought that key to any future redevelopment!

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a deal to be done wherby the club could say own this in conjunction with the council.

There would need to be assurances somewhere along the line though so that Fitton & co don't sell up in say 10 years and then the new board decide to sell the CG to a supermarket in 20 years time as they club is in dire need of money.

I think we'd have been closer to not having a club, if the previous lot had been able to sell the CG.  Sell it, get a crap deal on rent from a private individual/company...slowly die.  That the club don't own the CG is, to me, a good thing as it can't be sold from under us.  Maybe the ground should be managed by a trust including Council Member, Board Members and Supporters.  This may be the first time I've disagreed with the new board.  Whilst I trust them, I don't know who they'll sell to...

Didn't Wrexham have a problem with ground ownership at one stage? And of course there's Mr Kassam down the road.

 I would imagine that our Board would see Mr Kassam as a model owner.

 When he came in the scum were up shit creek without a paddle...he reduced debt to a negligible amount, got them a new ground built which wasn't happening before him, and was keeping them in the FL.it's teh new owners who've fucked up, got them relegated, loaded them with a sack of debt, and failed to meet teh agreed asking price on the stadium purchase.

 Right now it's difficult to see where our Board are taking us, other than L2. I'll carry on regarding new ground/redevelopment talk with the same scepticism that I've applied to all the previous schemes.

Kassam sold Oxford the year they got relegated to non-league. Yes, he did reduce the debts, but he's recouped a lot of his losses through the sale of the Manor Ground, the club to its new owners and the fact he is still taking about £400k a year in rent for the stadium, plus all of the advertising and stadium income.

So yeah, it's their new owners fault. I can't help to think you simply wanted to get a reaction. The fact you mention such a shady businessman in the same sentence as our current owners suggests so.

Fair enough be sceptical, but don't stretch your scepticism to the point where you're just trying to shit up an internet forum. In fact, do it on thisis, I hear they go crazy for that sort of shit over there.

 I don't think anything I've posted above is anything other than a reasonable interpretation of fact....Mr Kassam prized financial prudence above throwing money at the project, although on occasions he pushed the boat out.  His main failing seemed to be an inability to pick the right manager....

 When he sold the club, they were fairly well clear of the relegation zone, it was the decisions of teh new owners that took them through the trap door.

 I don't think Mr K is shady....a mere 3 or so years back he received an honorary fellowship from one of the O*frod Uni's for his services to the community, with regard to the stadium....I'd like to think Mr Fitton will be similarly honoured in the future when Swindon finally gets its own uni.

Would the £8m or so that the board have ploughed into the club so far exceed the value of the land that the County Ground is sitting on?

Agreed.


Think they were 21st or 22nd. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I'm sure they struggled for the most part in League 2 anyway.


Made his money from shithole hostels didn't he? Rather exploitative, maybe I have read it wrong.


As for modelling our club on Kassam's model? Well for one, Kassam did not get Oxford a new ground, he got himself a new one and he also sold their old one. Secondly, good old Firoz jumped as soon as things were getting up shit creek. He practically admitted he sold the club because it was going to lose money in the future.

Maybe I've got it wrong, but if Fitton is anything like Kassam then we're just as fucked as we were when Diamond Mike was here.

 The scum were 18th 7 points clear of the drop with 8 games remaining, when the new owners came in...a bit too do but they assumed it would be easy, therefore had no Plan B for the drop.

 Kassam made his money from asylum seeker hostels...maybe exploitative, bit hey that's capitalism for you, scrape the surface and lots of mega-rich have shit on their  fingers.

I checked. They were 22nd when Talbot was sacked and Smith was appointed 8 days later.

 Nah check again...Smith's first game was v Posh, he took over from Patterson, they were 18th.

Yeah I can't seem to find out where they were, although Patterson got them 5 points in that 8 day period so you are more than likely right.

The point is, I think they were already fucked when he took over.

I know I'm right  :)

 They weren't in a great position, but Patterson had got them on a bit of a run of undefeated games, when Smith took over, had the new owners have left Patterson in charge, he'd have most likely kept them up.

Had Firoz sacked Talbot sooner they'd have been fine.

Regardless Reg, the comment about Kassam being the model owner had to be a wind up and clearly I have bitten.

 No I said our Board would regard him as a model owner...although Firoz never suggested scraping the AGM's.

Bring back the orange hats.

I'll wear mine at the next annual meeting.

 Think it will be worth keeping them at the ready..