Thetownend.com

I am the Councillor who has been leading on the County Ground redevelopment, so if you have any questions I am happy to answer them.

Is this some sort of wind up?  If not, are you slightly in love with yourself?

Also if anyone has any questions for a tight arsed half scotsman feel free to ask away!

Well, as you may have read on the Trust site, I don't live in Swindon, so have no real links to what is going on with the club other than the 'net.

What are the realistic time-scales of something actually being done?  Are we talking redevelopment in a seasons/couple of seasons time, or is it a lot further off than that?

No people had been asking me what was happening, so if youy are interested I was going to let you know.

Well when we first sat down with the club, speed was of the essence.

In theory should they be able to agree with their developer partner(s), then it could start to happen very quickly because a lot would be simply modernising the stadium (rather than a whole new ground).

The key at the moment is that the club can broker a deal with a developer to make it worth while.

As you're also lead Councillor for Swindon Services....do you think the fiasco over recycling and refuse ( the streets around me are curently festooned with bright orange boxes in various states of disarray) is a resigning offence?

 Are you prepared to resign from the council if the CG redevelopment goes tits up and leads to the death of the football club?

yeah im also a bit puzzled by the fact that in west swindon we are receiving wheely bins that only hold 3 bags. this will be collected every two weeks but our household puts out 3 bags a week so how is that going to work?

Are any of those bloody indangered green annoying newt things going to show up and stop us re-developing!!!

How did that go from county ground to rubbish bins.... how ironic.

talk about 25% football, 80% bollox :wink:

Overall the recycling scheme has been a success, so I won't resigning for that!

I am not the key player in this, my role was purely to get the club to explore the County Ground site, which I have done.  It is for the club to decide whether a scheme can stack up.

If we put a rubbish bin in the middle of the County Ground, would it make more tackles than Hewlett did last season, discuss?

I thought they held more than that?

You have also been given a weekly, full kerbside recycling option.

The idea is to get people recycling more, and less stuff sent to landfill which is costing a fortune and is bad for the environment.

    OK very funny......

    JT though apart from trying to get the Councuil to build us a new football ground....is in charge of Swindon Services which are presently in a farcical mess.

   This is not the sort of thing to fill you with confidence.

yes it will!

 If you're not a key player why do start the thread with this......

 

  Which begs the question if you're not then what's the point of people asking questions as if you are?

Err...  To be fair Reg, I don't think you are giving me a chance here.

My job was to get STFC to explore the potential of the County Ground site.  (Supported by a cross-party motion at Full Council last Autumn).

I have made sure that has happened, and I have also made sure both Swindon Council and the New Swindon Company have been on hand to help the club.

The club is now in talks with their developer (St. Modwin) about how they can finance the deal.

Therefore I have lead the discussions.

As I have also been able to see the progress, I am able to shed light onto general questions like, 'are they going to turn the pitch 90 degrees etc)

Reg, that is not true.

1 - Swindon Services is not in a mess.
2 - The Council is not the ones building the new ground, that would be STFC and their developer partner.

I can feel tension  :?

You know and I know that nothing can happen on this site without political will.....bringing the horses to water, is one thing but you've got to make them drink.

  If by SBC you mean its officers.....they will happily do what they are asked by their political masters....the Tories currnently run the Council so are you fully commited to driving this through....or is it now a case of backsliding and looking for someone to blame?

Reg the council has always been shit whether it be Labout or Torie!

Reg...

Partly right, partly not right...

There does have to be some political will.  For example:

1 - there had to be the will to get everyone say round the table.  (This was supported by all the parties)

2 - if the club wishes to move facilities to other sites, for example the cricket pitch, then again there would have to be a political will to support this.  (Again this would need to be cross-party support, for example local Councillors might object to any potential new site in their patch)

This could be an real test.

On a personal level I think moving the facilities could help improve them, for example, the cricket pitch is a couple of metres short of being County level, and short of bull dozing the Arkells stand, this simply can't happen at the current site.

Where you are wrong for example is:

1 - The Council are not the ones who would be building the ground.

2 - Should plans be brought to planning, then the issues are determined only on planning issues and not emotion.  (If they were, then any challenge could be over turned in court, and huge amounts of damages claimed).

3 - We can not force the club to proceed if they don't think the plans can stack up.

So back to the question....does the political will exist in the Tory group to make this happen?

  As for the wrong points I don't recall stating any of them anyway.....but if you want to raise them for proper debate then do so

Reg there are no proper debates on this site (as you just discovered with me and boeta)

  If Swindon services is not a mess then how come Bawden apologized for the recycling fiasco about a month ago and to my eyes going around town little has improved since?

 http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/wiltshire/archive/2005/04/15/swindon_news4ZM.html

As it stands it exists in all the groups as that was the whole point of the cross party motion.

The Council would like to see a redeveloped County Ground site.

The two tests are:

1 - Can the club make it financially work.
2 - Will Councillors object when the actual scheme comes.  (Ie local Councillors may object if the club wants to make certain changes)

When the new scheme was launched there were some teething problems, and at least (unlike national politics), we had the guts to admit it.  However, they do seem to have been dealt with.  The response to the scheme has been fantastic, with the majority of households now taking joining in the recycling.

yeah i am altough it doesnt include plastic. whys that JT?

Currently not possible, though it is something we are working towards.

We have though added loads of plastic recycling sites all over town, which have proved extremely popular.

I am keen to see us extend this as you could argue this is the most important thing to actually recycle.

   The club cannot make it work financially without something from the Council, who are the land owner.....whilst aware that SBC is limited by central government legislation, there has to be some room for creativity, as Swansea and Hull have shown......have any discussions of this type taken place?

   I think we already know that Central and Walcot councillors will object to this scheme,  are the Tory group prepared to stand up to them, or will that be too risky to your majority?

Dear Mr Tomlinson

Don't mind Reg he hates everyone

Lots of love DMR x

If you could be anybody in the world, past or present, who would you be and why?

Bill Gates Why? coz he has 31 billion simple as that

 Not everyone......just mongs, tards, Tories and scummers.

Thanks Reg!

Can I borrow a fiver?

1 - The one difference that the Council has been able to make so far is that it would consider allowing certain facilities to be moved away from the site (cricket pitch etc), which as the 'land owner', is helpful.  (This is relying on STFC being able to provide alternative, suitable facilities elsewhere)  In the past this would not have even been considered, hence why this potential redevelopment was able to be given a fresh run.

This actually is a serious issue.  Not only does the Council have to say it is okay (and as the Lead Member for Recreation, I am supportive of it), but Sport England have to authorise any move.  (God knows why they have the final say?!), and they have some very strict rules regarding potential relocation.  This is one major hoop the club must deal with, but we (Council), have been working hard to help them do this.

2 - I am not sure that is the case, the 4 Labour Cllrs in question have raised concerns, but those concerns may be addressed, or they may be made to support the scheme if their group overall supported.  (As was the case with the original Council motion, when one of them condemned it in the paper, then voted for it the following night!)  The Trust is busily trying to meet the new Labour Group Leader to see what their latest thoughts / concerns on the scheme.

 
Think nothing of it.....if you prove yourself to be a latter day Joseph Chamberlain, I could always change my mind.

   So you're saying that the extent of the Council's help is as a facilitator that it will allow the movement of the cricket and athletics, but only if STFC pays for the new facilities......SBC will have no financial input into what are currently their facilities?

Our main role is as a facilitator, yes, in the sense we are not looking to build a Council owned facility.

In a basic sense, the club/developer would be expected to replace the facilities with a like for like elsewhere, and the Council would then look to further enhance them with Council money.

   So this would have to be on Council owned land....are the Council expecting to sell this land or can it be swopped ie the developer buys the existing cricket and athletics for housing and then upgrades the facilities to present standard elsewhere?

JT what's your favourite cheese? Do you enjoy Port and Stilton nights?

That I don't know - sorry.  We are waiting for the options to be brought forward, will have to get back to you on that one.

Somerset Brie - and no, yuck.

It amazes me that there would be oposition from council members.

The athletics track is pretty much just that: a track with a few sand pits. its a pretty poor facility for a town of Swindon's size.

The Crictet gound could be more problematic as at least the cricket club has the pavillion.

It seems that other members of the council (not JT) are being very short sighted in their views.  Swindon does not have enough leisure facilities as it is, so the creation and/or updating of facilities ON COUNCIL OWNED LAND should be welcomed.

It seems sadly like many have a small town attitude, and refuse to see the potential benefits that sucessful football club can offer the town.

   The motives for seeking election to the Council are varied.....ranging from those who in effect it is their job, because of the expenses that can be claimed, through to those who are in effect the political wing of the Masons, to those who see it as a step up the greasy pole to a higher calling.

   There are even  a few who do it because they genuinely wish to improve the lot of their constituents.

I agree with you 100% Piemonte. But you shouldn't forget that some of the councilers are there to represent the people that voted them in. A cynic may say that to do otherwise would draw critisism and lose votes next time round. This isn't aimed at anyone in particular.

IMHO it is important to try and politely argue why blocking the development would negatively impact the whole town and beyond, not just the local community.

It is very frustrating as a fan that we take a step forward, e.g. the front garden, get blocked but convince the council to find a new site, get one recommended, then councilers change and we have to repeat the whole thing again. It seems like a never ending circle, except I fear it may end in the extinction of the club if we fail this time.

To be fair it is a little more complicated than that, however on a personal level I would agree.

I support the principle of this scheme not just because it would benefit the club / fans, but also it would help enhance facilities.  Local residents though have started to argue that they don't want to lose their open space.  (Whilst they don't use the cricket pitch and athletics track, they still consider it open space, hence why the Local Labour Cllr has highlighted them as the 'green lungs'  of the area)

The open space arguement falls flat on its face in my view. Theres not much benifit to the local community of having an open space if they can only use the one tiny area (next to the athletics track) which has poor drainage and is covered in the said residents dog shit anyway!

Lets face it, we live in a lrage town which is surrounded by some lovley countryside. If you want fresh air in the Swindon area you dont live in the town centre do you? you'd live in Highworth, Bassett, Wroughton etc.

Fresh air??  Highworth???   :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick

A non inbred family? in Calne?  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick  :wink:

I come from Quemerford mate, not Calne!!  But agree with your sentiments though.

There must be grants available - national and local - if the club build facilities for the community ie. all weather pitches - 50m swimming pool (oh yeah) - then surely everyone locally benefits (better than having green lungs in my view). Or maybe St Modwen can lend us the Longbridge site and we'll relocate!
Somebody do something ffs or we wont have a team soon!
What will SBC give the club for developing a top class sporting environment that is central for everyone in the borough (holding breath now)

  Bormuff got half a mill off their Council in loans and grants, a couple of mill off a Government body and had to find 2 mill themselves...in order to do their 3 sided job.

  That they still had a wooden stand in the old ground up until a couple of years ago....wasa classic example of how local authorities view their football clubs differently.

  Speaking of which just over on the Bormuff Rivals site to see what they think of Lard Boy and found this......

  http://www.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=913&p=2&stid=8381235

  make of it what you will.

Didnt I read the other week that Bristol CIty had an 800k grant to help refurbish one stand?

Hows about a Casino / Strip dancing club (cleverly marketed in the Manchester road area  :wink:  :-- ) could be a winner.

On a more serious note, what will the council do with the land when the club goes bust? Weve got about 2 seasons left now, so you might as well start licking the lips. Will it take 3 months or 4 to approve planning permission for 400 flats and houses on the area? Every time I see a councillor campaigning about a stadium its for the 'forest' or the 'newts', 'the noise', 'the soccer louts', or 'the traffic  :x  :x ', or someone connected to STFC farting in the wind. Yet the houses and the warehouses and the offices, the supermarkets and the bowling alleys, they get built.

To be honest I dont think weve got a hope in hell. Fuck me, we couldnt even put a roof on the bank.

Thanks for your efforts Mr Tomlinson, and I do appriciate you comming on here and its nothing personal. But some of us have no hope left, hell even the newts kick our arse. But I tell every councillor THIS. Swindon already has an image problem, its grown too fast and is getting labelled as a new town nowadays too often (I cant remmember it ever being called that 10 years ago). Weve got a long established football team here dating back to 1882, pre dating most other southern teams. It puts the town on the map. Look at the efforts Milton Keynes council went to get a football team (I dont like what they did but I DO know why they did it). I feel without us the reputation of this town as a cultural waste land will grow, and none of us want to see that.

HELP US, WE ARE DOOMED!

Swindon just seems to be a huge mass of houses with no facilities. Sure, it's great to get people to move into the area for the economy etc., however it lacks cultural appeal and facilities. The council is so poorly run in my opinion. It seems they want to build more houses just to raise revenue (from council tax) but surely you need to reinvest this in new schools and the like. For a change, why don't the council support something that benefits the whole community. The Elton John concert highlights the need for a better stadium and I haven't heard any Councillers moaning about that. Hey, it needn't be a stadium and sports facilities for the whole community to enjoy (although obviously I want this), why not a new library or theatre?

Swindon is a farce for facilities, everything is overdue an upgrade. Little wonder Swindon is seen as an 'average' town.

That's putting it nicely. Most people I know what call it a shithole.

Exactly

i don't know why i put 'what' in the above post. please forgive me

Even Bristol with it's shite council has been dramatically redeveloped in the past 30 years. Ashton gate is even getting redveloped as well as them getting a 10,000+ Arena.

Even Southampton which is full of pikeys and students (they're the same thing according to Gerald) has a great new stadium and the Guildhall often gets some decent live acts in there

Cardiff council is improving our city

or so the subliminal signs everywhere tell us.

To be fair though Cardiff has an 80,000 or so seater stadium which has hosted internationals and the fa cup, I can't see why there shouldn't be one in swindon, also a cia equivalent 5,000 seater venue would be nice, and a university to attract women and live music would be good.

Come on council if you build it they will come.

 :D

I think Spencer White makes a very arguement.

Let me reiterate, not only am I supporting this because I think it will benefit the club / fans, but I also think it will help the town.

Councillor Tomlinson

You seem to think that you are leading the County Ground development, and you state you want to let us know what is happening however you have failed to provide us with any information that we don't already know.

Do you actually know anything about it?

What information is it you want to share with us?

If you have something you want to say - do tell :)

Why should any of us put any faith in a councillor who is involved in the recycling scheme but is blissfully ignorant of how many bags a wheelie bin holds?  In what way has the recycling scheme been an "overall success" - and not a "success" -please provide an answer based on FACT and quantify your answer.



And please answer the questions, I know what you bloody politician types are like  :-))(

what is a "very arguement"?

Have you been drinking?

Damn right!  Get in as many people as you can without actually bothering to provide anything for them.

Being from out of town, the only thing that Swindon has to offer me is the football club.  Without a football club it has no soul.  How any councillor can be against something that the club NEEDS so desperately is beyond me.

 Swindon is a wonderful place...consider this last fortnight  we've had Jon Lewis called up to the England test squad, David Howell nearly winning the British Masters and Billie Piper starring in Dr Who.....plus the return of two Labour MP's

Well if I am not, who is leading?!  :shock: Seriously, I have tried my best to answer questions, I am sorry if you think I am not doing a good job.



Yes, I know as much as the Council has been told.  So for example I know the direction, principles, etc, but I don't know the financial details of STFC and the developers.



I am not really sure what you mean.  You say I am just telling you things you already know, so that is why I offered to answer your questions.



4 large black bags.

An overall success based on the participation rate, and the volume of refuse now being diverted from landfill sites.   Not only does this help the environment, but with landfill tax increasing year on year (£3 per tonne), financially it will help prevent a hike in Council tax.  We (the Council) must hit 30% recycling rates, and this scheme looks set to take us from 18% to at least the 30%.

Now, if you think things can be improved, please say.  Schemes can be changed, tweaked, altered etc at anytime.

I think you are a fake, its probably someone on here pretending to be you.  Also, shouldnt you be doing some work instead of sitting on a FOOTBALL website?

Cllr JT,

Can you answer me this then.  Whilst watching the Liverpool v Chelsea champions league match a couple of weeks ago I noticed that the majority of the Liverpool fans were standing throughout the whole match.  Now can you confirm that at the next Anfield match all home supporters will be issued letters stating that if they continue to stand Liverpool City council will have no alternative but to shut the stadium?  Or can STFC stop threatening Swindon supporters with the same letters?  As I believe it is the council that make STFC make the threats to the fans in the Town End.

Many thanks

Even here in Basingstoke they spent a shed load on redeveloping the town centre. And by redeveloping I mean leavling it and rebuilding, not just tarting up the Brunel and opening a circus tent to house the market!

Actually to be fair Swindon centre is a lot better than it used to be.

Swindon is in general very poor in many areas but equally is improving in some.

Swindon town centre is quite frankly appaling, yes it has improved but has just so far to go.  There are so many things that could be done to make it cracking but everything that happens appears half-hearted as Batch just said.  The council seriously need to look at creating different districts within it.  Have you tried eating in town? It is shocking, there is just nowhere decent to get a good lunch.  They are all either fast-food type places or pubs.  When you go to decent towns there is a huge selection.  This is one of the main reasons i hardly ever go into Swindon centre.  Also the town centre library is a joke.  

With regards the recycling i must say it has improved no end and hopefully it will continue to.  It is just soo important that we get this working.  But again i do not think we go far enough.  Personally i would make recycling compulsory.  In the Austrian village where my ex owned a hotel they had to recycle and if they did not they would get fined.  I think this should be introduced throughout the whole country.

In general Swindon has a very poor atmosphere.  Me and the Mrs are looking at leaving Swindon for good as it is just so uninspiring.

I must say it is good to see JT come on here and discuss this stuff.  I must say it has improved my view on local councillors.  I have met quite a few and some are awful.  I wanted to look at becoming a councillor last year but when i met one of the key members of the party it turned me right off.  I really wanted to try and help this Town.

Anyway rant over got work to do!

I agree with Titch about the town centre.  Much work is being done on the potential redevelopment (led by the New Swindon Company).

I personally would like to see lots of provision for smaller unit, so independent, unique shops could also be catered for.  This would give the town character, and help attract shoppers.  Otherwise, we will just be like all other town centres.

Err, I have no idea what Chelsea and Liverpool will do?  (Though still can't understand how Liverpool managed to beat Chelsea)

My understanding of the STFC letters, is that it was the football authorities had threatened the club with closing the Town End, therefore they took action.

As a fan, I am one of the people who tends to spend most of the match standing.  Normally as it is easier to make it clear to various players my 'displeasure' at having spent £x (large sums of cash), that they are not giving 110% blood, limbs and guts.  Also, being 6ft, it is a paid to sit for 90 minutes in the cramped space that makes Easy Jet seats look like the top end of the market.

I just think the way the Swindon fans are treated is disgusting.  Live on TV 40,000 scousers stand all the way through their match, and nothing gets said.  About 200 Swindon fans stand up and get threatened with ejection from the ground or closing the stand down.  From the letters I have read it is the council making these threats.  One rule for one, one for another.

www.newswindon.co.uk makes for some interesting reading.  Obviously these are overview plans and look as though they could be interesting.

Are there any detailed plans available and is this alll really going to happen or is just more hot-air?  Also what are the realistic timescales for all this?

 SBC have always taken an excessively draconian position with all things STFC.......as the landlord they feel compelled to bully the club.

 Take as a recent example the drive up to the CG past the CGH.....the tarmac was breaking up so the Council insisted this constituted a hazard. potential missiles.....rather than traffic related,

 You might have thought as landlord, and being in possession of the necessary kit SBC would have fixed this....but not unless STFC pay....which of course we cannot afford.....so the solution was for various STFC employees to do it themselves.....a passing convoy of Gills fans offered, but even they were too expensive.

thats exactly what pisses me off about this whole thing aswell! people moan about taking up the green space & whatever, yet when the club does go bust houses will be built on the site with no objection at all! then what will the locals say?

same with the front garden thing. not allowed a stadium there because of the fucking newts! yet its ok to build a university & more houses there? i'm sure that would cause more noise & polution on a daily basis than a stadium

one rule for STFC & a different one for everyone else

Exactly, well le God.  The council will end up with a nice big pay cheque at the end of all this, when the land finally gets the 100's of houses it's destined for.  

Funny that when the Town got promoted every thing was premier this, premier that in town, but when it needs some real support at a crucial time no one other than 4,000 or so of us are there.  This club is in dire straits, the council should be doing everthing in it's power to make sure of it's survival.

I will refuse to pay council tax as it is the only thing I use exept rubbish collection.  I use teh roads but pay road tax as well.

SBC - Bunch of clowns!

to be fair though JT one minute we are getting a new library and the next we are not! same with the shopping centre! whats going on?

I went to School with both John Lewis and David Howell, they were both in my year and some of my classes at Churchfields school, nice lads and I wish them every success.

And a small claim to fame, I once threw up on David Howell's parent's carpet once when he held a party.

But that is silly. Do you know where road tax/petrol tax goes. Into a big pot for the chancellor to div up come budget it doesn't go on the roads directly (some does).

Lewie's a dead set fucking legend

He's always up for a pint after the game

Shame we'll see little of him as he'll be ripping out the Aussies

Valid arguement.  When the scheme comes to planning, if local residents you have a chance to put the counter arguement in.

With Shaw Forest, the local residents were far, far, far more vocal than the supporters.

With anything related to the Council, if you feel strongly, let them know!

It was a crap place for a football ground to be honest. Front Garden would have been ace, but Shaw was miles away. No pubs, busses to games, hostile locals.

Not ONE of my mates wanted to move to Shaw. Theres your answer as to why Town fans didnt get involved.

 The Shaw site was infinitely better than the Front Garden site,  I'm not sure many people took the trouble to go and look at it, but it was a scrap of land wedged between the M4 railway and Blagrove industrial estate....the only acces being through the industrial estate.

Batch it was tongue in cheek!

Sorry! http://www.zen49395.zen.co.uk/exiles/pics/brickwall.gif

I'm off to do lines (not that type)

"I will work out this board isn't serious"
"I will work out this board isn't serious"
..

I wouldnt know what you mean when you say lines, im a good lad!  :shock:

If they had built on the front garden they could have built a slip road off the motorway or something. Shaw wasn't really a good site, the infrastructure cannot support such a development.

  If the Front Garden site had been used the access would have been through Blagrove Industrial Estate......Wycombe stylee.....building slip roads off of motorways is incredibly expensive...and normally only done for things like the nuclear missile silos at Whelford.

Fair does. Guess both the sites weren't viable then  :wink:

Shaw Tip was completely viable in the sense that it was a long way from houses, aimed to use ground not earmarked for anything else....and a new road is planned to run through between Purton Road and Bruce Street , which would have been ideal for access not to mention the Gloucester Branch railway which maybe could have had a halt constructed.

 The only problem was the failure to notice the Council passed a motion 10 years earlier stating no development should happen there.

Also thousands of local residents organised a very public, high profile campaign against the plans.

Well it was more like 10 very noisey people and their thousands of kids.Ive still never seen anything but deer up there.I think the deer might take over that part of Swindon soon as they have no natural predators up there (apart from my dog 8) )

 Thousands of local residents organised a very public, high profile campaign against housing on the Front Garden on going for some 15 or more years...didn't stop the Tory Group on the Council voting for it though, including your esteemed leader who placed opposition to it in his election manifesto for Lawn.....

Thats not actually true.

The entire Labour group voted for it.
The entire Liberal group voted against it.
Most of the Tory group voted against it (including Mike Bawden)
Some of the Tory group voted for it.

Labour were running the Council at the time, and they argued that:

1 - We (the Council) would get loads of money for building schools in the Northern Sector.
2 - The Government would have made us do it anyway.

Being economical with the actualite is your trade not mine.

what did that american general say Reg?
terminological inexactitude - or am I going Alzheimery

Don't think so.....Al Haig apparently.

  Shall be stored for further reference. :fishing:

Surely the best way to do this would be for the council to say the club can DEFINITELY build on a site, providing they do A, B and C.

Then everybody knows where they stand. The club doesn't lose ridiculous amounts of money on planning, and we get the new ground which will save the club and over time improve the image of the town.

Just look at Hull...

Why do the big clubs never get these sort of problems!!!! :roll:

How many people would the CG hold after the development?

That is what is happening...  We are helping advise them on what could and could not work.

JT - I hope you lot sort this out, the club means a hell of a lot to many people in this town, as the council representatives you should be helping.  After all teh bad publicity your council gets from top to bottom you should at least get one thing right - this ground.