Thetownend.com

I'll try and keep this succinct. Basically, I've just discovered that the central heating boiler installation in my house is completely illegal. Whoever installed the boiler (several years ago) used the previously installed hot air system flue through the loft, which has been blocked off. So essentially the boiler is not vented at all = very dangerous.

Now, when I purchased the house (in July), the owner on his HIPS report stated that the boiler was in good working order and had been serviced (by British Gas under one of their care agreements) within the past 12 months. When I asked for documentation, he claimed to have lost it.

Now I appreciate I should have got the boiler checked out before signing contracts, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. That said, a HIPS document forms part of the legally binding contract for house sales, and the previous owner has essentially misrepresented the condition of the boiler (this assumes that British Gas have done their job properly of course and made him aware that the installation was illegal).

I've spoken with my solicitor who handled the conveyancing, Consumer Direct, Citizens Advice Bureau and Community Legal Advice, none of whom can or will answer a fairly simple question; that is, do I have any legal recourse given that the sale has gone through?

I have another call in with my solicitor at the moment, but they seem to be doing everything possible to avoid helping me. Any advice as to what other avenues are open to me? Thanks.

Kneecap the estate agent?

Would you be willing to volunteer? I don't do violence. Yet.

Don't know the answer, but I would:

1. Double check that you are not being screwed by whoever checked your boiler.
2. Get it fixed if necessary
3. Contact British Gas and see if they have record of the house being covered on the contract. That way you can tell whether the previous owner is telling porkies or not:

If he is telling the truth:
- I would get him to insist that British Gas send a supervisor out to check the boiler and the flue. Then have him threaten British Gas with legal action for allowing him to live in a dangerous property while taking money each year to service the boiler.

If he's lying:
- Threaten to take him to the small claims court for the full amount of the repairs plus damages up to the total of 4999 pounds. Tell him that the court action will be for breach of contract. (Or whatever your solicitor or Citizens Advice suggest.

But, the first thing I would do is get it fixed

In a word Pumbaa, yes. From what you have said, the seller of the property has made a misrepresentation to you (that the bolier was serviced within the last 12 months and approved by British Gas). Whereas generally a buyer is responsible for inspecting the property and making sure everything is in satisfactory condition (known as the "caveat emptor" rule), this was a representation made to you by the seller of the property you should have been entitled to rely on it. The seller has committed a tort against you. It is essential that you contract solicitors immediately, preserve the HIP (guard that with your life) and if possible get an independent report carried out on the boiler, along with some photographs should your claim ever get to trial.

Also since January 2007 it is a requirement for all homeowners to be able to provide evidence of any gas/building work undertaken in order to sell their property. It obviously sounds as if the seller breached this requirement also.

Hope this helps.

1. I am getting a second (and third) opinion. Plus full estimates on costs to replace and relocate the boiler (there are a couple of other problems that need to be fixed as well).
2. I'm using the boiler at risk until such time as I understand my legal rights.
3. Done that. Data Protection Act. Cunts. I'm pretty convinced the previous owner was aware of the problem and failed to disclose it knowing we would pull out or significantly reduce our offer.

I know I need to get it fixed. I just don't have a spare 3 grand lying about right now. Catch 22.

Yes it does. Thanks. As I said, I'm waiting for my solicitor who handled the sale to get back to me. Hoepfully tomorrow. I'll mention what you said.

If the owner claimed in his HIPS report that the boiler had been serviced by British Gas in the last twelve months, could you not check with British Gas that they did service it? They must keep records of dates of visits.

If it's that bad you need to turn it off, you might be cold but you wont be dead from carbon monoxide.

I did. They won't tell me. Data Protection Act. I wasted 10 minutes of my life finding that little nugget out. Wankers.

Well we haven't died in 4 months, so I'm prepared to continue to use it at risk for the immediate future. There is a CO monitor on the wall just outside the cupboard where the boiler is located. I don't intend to let this situation drag on, trust me.

Surely the surveyor should have picked this up before agreeing to give you the mortgage?

If the problem is the venting then in the short term its cheaper and safer to redirect the vent than replace the whole system. I'd have thuoght reventing would not be too expensive. This would also buy you a bit of timee to sort out the issue legally. 

I had a similar problem. However, quote back at them 'Freedom Of Information Act' and say you don't want to know any detail about the person or the contract, you just want to know whether British Gas covered the property up until whatever date.

The problem I had when I sold my house was that it had been covered by British Gas since I built the property 10 years ago. The people who bought the house from me told me that a British Gas engineer came out and told them that the system should be condemned as it was dangerous due to it being fitted incorrectly in the first place. He told them that it was a death trap and didn't conform to standards. It would therefore cost them 5k to replace.

I knew this was wrong and contacted British Gas threatening them with legal action. They eventually sent someone else out to check and said it was fine other than there had been a Corgi standards change and that they would 'upgrade the system' (basically put in an extra trip switch) for the new owners free (because of the aggravation caused).

So, this is why I questioned whether your boiler really needed 'fixing'. Was it the same over zealous British Gas employee that was trying to drum up extra business or is there indeed a propblem with the boiler?

could you not get him done for negligent misrepresentation?

I don't know how to help but I can say one thing BG are wrong with regard the data protection act. In accordance with section 35 of the data protection act information holders are allowed to reasle information where the same is required for the issue of legal proceddings or the investigation of the same.

Several points as a mortgage broker (I am not a legal expert but I deal with them).
What type of valuation did you have done when you bought the house. There are three types ranging from the mortgage valuation done for the lender to ensure that the property exists & is worth the money. The other two (Home buyers & full structural) go into things more fully & give you some recourse in situations such as this.
Second point is that I would be having a go at the Estate Agents &/or who ever provided the home information pack. I don't know the full legal ins & outs but I do know that estate agents can't mis represent.
Third, I don't think it matters whether the guy is lying or not. If BG did service it, & pass it when faulty its between them & the guy who sold the house to you. The fact is that he sold you the house, & he and his agent misrepresented the state of the boiler. He may have recourse to BG but I doubt you have.
On the point of solicitors, my experience is that they are generally pretty useless & need to be pushed to do anything other than send their bill. I do know that they tend to specialise & that you will need one that deals with this sort of thing regularly.
Fourth.  On the above, your solicitor should have asked questions about the property as part of the pre contract stuff. Whilst he is entitled to rely on the HIP, as being true, he may be worried about opening himself up to litigation.
Finally I would have thought that the HIP is damning evidence, that along with an independent report on the Boiler would I believe seal it in your favour.

Thanks to all who have replied with advice (especially Phil, GFM and NMH, all very helpful).

So, progress. I called British Gas again. Once again they refused to give my any information. Data Protection Act. Despite me throwing the Freedom of Information Act, Duty of Care and Health & Safety, they still wouldn't budge. So I gave up. And called CORGI. And had a very interesting conversation that informed me that the boiler had not been serviced since they started keeping formal records in April 2005. And they are prepared to provide that information (or lack of) in writing should I need it.

So, that leads me to conclude that the previous owner did lie on the HIPS data provided to me through his solicitor. Not only that, I have evidence (in the lack of data registered with CORGI) that he did lie. Ergo I'm going to screw the cunt into the ground.

Still waiting to hear from my solicitor, but if I don't hear from the one who handled my move today, I'm booking an appointment at a local office who do a free initial consultation first thing in the morning.

Coxy, my brief who handled the purchase of my house has just set up his own (partnered) firm in Bristol. He's shit hot on conveyancing and property law, I can give you his details if you want? His rates are pretty reasonable and he's a very genuine bloke.

Please Sam, much appreciated.

Coolio, I'll find his card when I get home and PM you with his details.

Don't ask me for advice again.

Ungrateful cunt.

Well frankly it wasn't very fucking helpful. You bald cunt.

How come you're allowed to post NMH and I'm not?

NMH

Oh don't start doing it again.

Can I?

Cheers

Donkey ;)

Missed this but hang on a second, the need to replace the flue on a new boiler changed about 18 months ago.  I am only thinking this as around that time we installed around 8 new boilers, 4 pre april 2007 and 4 after (again this is a sunday morning memory) and the 4 before used existing and 4 after didnt

If you wnat to send me your detaisl I will get my corgi guy to call you and explain teh laws etc and can offer advise.  Also if you need a hand with legals my solicitor deals in proeprty and doesnt charge me if I can help shout

Thanks Ash. I'm going to make some phone calls tomorrow. The solicitors acting for my move are setting up a litigator to talk to me (hopefully tomorrow) and I have other irons in the fire.

With regards to the boiler itself, just to note it was installed more than 10 years ago. When exactly I don't know, but the engineer who serviced it said boilers of that type ceased being manufactured > 10 years ago. An assumption I know, but nonetheless. The reference to 2002 was something to do with when the law changed regarding venting flues of boilers. The point here is that my flue uses the old forced air heating system flue, and is physically blocked on exit from the roof. Regardless of when laws were introduced, that's illegal.

The bottom line here is that after speaking direct with Corgi last week, I know that the previous owner LIED on the HIPS documentation regarding the Boiler being serviced within the last 12 months. He verbally claims it was serviced by a British Gas Engineer under a service agreement. In that case, why have Corgi got no records of any work by a registered engineer since April 2005? (All British Gas engineers are Corgi registered btw). That, IMO, is a clear case of misrepresentation, and I need to what what redress, if any, I have now.

I'll PM you my contact details.

Ive forwarded detaisl to corgi man to call you, if its 2002 I am getting old

We've spoken. That man knows his shizzle. Thanks for the contact BB, much appreciated and he gave me some useful advice.

Cool, not many plumbers make a call on Sunday - I will send you the bill :)