Thetownend.com

Luke McCormick, former Plymouth goalkeeper has been jailed for 7 years and 4 months for causing the deaths of two children by dangerous driving.

I hope he has a good time in the showers.

I know it's probably down to sentencing guidelines, but it's not a long time is it. I assume he'll be out in 3 1/2.

Agree batch. Its not a long time given the end result of him being twice teh DD limit and falling asleep at the wheel.

Tragic story.

How much do you get for manslaughter?

Doesn't seem like a long time. Sounds like the police should have got to him sooner and pulled him over as well.

Serves the fucker right

TBH if you wanna kill someone, run 'em over. The sentence is much lower than if you stabbed someone. It's a joke.

Roughly the same as what Lee Hughes got wasn't it?

Yes and for good reason. Most people who run someone over dont do it on purpose, whereas I doubt many stabbings are accidental. Come on, think it though.

Exactly my point, the view that these things are seen as accidents would go in your favour in receiving a lower sentence.

He got 6 years.

Very true my mother inlaw was killed by hit an run driver done a total of 3 years in all,good behaviour shit and the appeal judge said he showed remorse.

he should of got a lot longer in my opinion being a pro he should know better.

And now the murdering bastard is earning good money & having a great time at Oldham

Really cant see what his job has to do with it.

I feel sorry for the family involved and I cant help but feel a bit sorry for the Goalie.One stupid decision and hes lost everything and he will have to live with the guilt for the rest of his life.Sad stuff.

The point being yeovil he was drunk,i expect young plymouth fans looked up to him etc he should be acting as a role model and setting good examples to kids.

He knows drinking and driving cost's live's,I cant feel sorry for him, was he not nearly two times over the limit.   

He's lost his freedom for 3-4 years and that is all.

Everyone who drinks and drives knows they are doing wrong his job makes no difference.I just think everyone makes stupid decisions over their life time ,most of us are lucky enough to have to face consequences for them.Im not defending what hes done in anyway,just think its a waste of 3 lives.

i agree with yeovil.

He was twice the legal limit, meaning he had a pint or pint and a half more in his system than he should have.

I don't know if he was doing 70mph he'd have done less harm as it sounds like he nodded off through tiredness. Such a shame.

Anyone ever see that Fifth Gear where they tested how tiredness/drink effects you on the road and the motorway? Pretty scary stuff.

It's been reported on the BBC news, that McCormick was driving erratically at speeds of up to 97 mph.

The results of alcohol,tiredness and high speed were obviously lethal.It's a tragic story for all involved.

He will be out in 3 or 4 years and probably get to play football again. Like Hughes killed someone and did a runner. God imagine the abuse he would get.

Those kids were obviously footie fans and my heart goes out to their family. McCormick obviously made a mistake, a very stupid one at that. He will be out before he is 30 to carry on his life but imagine how the familes feel seeing him being able to just carry on his life.

Whats the price of a human life?

I reckon the pain of killing someone by accident like that are in some ways harder to live with than the pain of losing a close 1. Sounds stupid i know and the bloke is scum for it but alot of familys get closure and have memorys(good ones) mcgormack will have a different type of pain on his conscience .

As someone with no kids I agree with what you're saying. However, if I was a parent or if, god forbid, this happened to me I'd want the fucker to rot.

Does anyone else find it slighty ridiculous that his driving ban will have elapsed before he is even out of jail?

that always amazed me, surely the ban should kick in when hes released, so the ban is a punishment, the ban is totally pointless

As a dad rich i couldn't agree more. Deserves everything he gets

The Smith/Brez debate got me thinking when I saw this topic.

IF in 3 years time we needed a new goal keeper and IF McCormick was out on good behaviour and IF we did sign him...what would everyones re-action be?

if he was good enough then id have no problem, he would have served his punishment whether we feel its not hard enough isnt relevant

Bit of a worms nest that one. I suppose it depends on if you see imprisonment as being a punishment, a deterrent or for rehabilitation.

Exactly, one thing that is not his fault is the sentence no matter what we think

I wouldn't want him here.

That could easily have been pook or nicho.

Shouldn't even be debating this. The guy has through utter bloody stupidity killed two young boys and ruined the lives of many others. Would you really want him representing your club and singing his name!!!!!!!! He wont play football again unlike that scumbag Hughes who is a disgrace to the human race.

If he gave half his wages to charity or spent a fair amount of his time in charity work eg visiting schools / colleges warning of the dangers of drink driving then I wouldn't have a problem as it would look like he was genuinely sorry. Otherwise then no. As well as the 2 kids the bloke involved was also badly injured and nearly killed. And what about the wife?
It was an absolute tragedy.

As a driver ime afraid alot of what happens on the roads is fate.....i see people on drugs,and people on the mobile...a lorry driver i knew was texting and hit a stationary maintenance lorry at full speed....he died instantly bu my point is it could have been a people carrier he hit and wiped out a family
Ive said for years that if you can put a man on the moon there has to be a way that we can get something built into a vehicles computer that can stop the vehicle if its being driven erraticly.

My reaction would be for him to get fucked. I think it is somewhat disrespectful to the boys family to bring up signing him when he gets out of the nick. 

Oh do fuck off, its a hypothetical question and the family arent likely to read it are they.

Must admit when i see Hughes doing that silly jig after scoring it makes me sick.

the likes of hughes and mccormick should never play professional football again, i think its a disgrace, i'd be dismayed if they ever represented my team.

if mccormick behaves himself and gets out early, he'll be serving just over 18 months per child he killed. that is fucking disgusting.

watched a news report showing CCTV of his car speeding along the motorway, and moments before he hits the toyota. they said his friend had phoned him earlier and begged him to pull over, 2 hours sleep after being on the piss all day is ridiculous, he knew the risks, and 7 1/2 years is hardly justice for utter, utter stupidity.

the fact is they when hes released he has served his time and is free to play football or do what ever he wants to do as he is a free man, what really needs addressing is how can they possibly jail him for only 3 years for killing 2 young boys?

There's probably loads of people that have done all manner of horrible things working in Britain, who you come into contact with day in and day out.

I think people kick up a fuss because it's high profile. Fact is, if you didn't let ex-criminals work, they'd be committing even more crimes.

yes, but i doubt many of those people who have been in prison for killing people will earn as much as mccormick if he plays after his release. the way i see it, playing football is a priviledge. yes its a job, but its a well-paid one. at no point in my life am i gonna be paid large amounts of money for playing a game, these guys are, so they're lucky.

footballers get battered quite a bit, nothing to do with McCormick but these blokes work hard from 7/8 years old to earn what they do today, ive known so many lads who were great players but didnt put the work in and wouldnt make the same sacrifices as the lads who made it did

Its not just footballers though is it...Lesley Grantham killed a man in cold blood,got out made millions.....if you kill or rape you shouldnt ever be let out of prison IMO....most rapists commit other foul crimes when let out.

I think JPC is right, the sentence is the thing that's wrong, not letting him play (assuming he ever plays again).

Surely the privilige is not being in prison. I'm sure anyone who's been inside and done things with their life since they've been out will tell you that.

In that respect JPC is absolutely right - it's the sentencing that's wrong and not the allowing them to play.

Anyway, it's all rather hypothetical. He may never play again.

Spot on.

I actually find myself agreeing with you for once.

I hate the way the press have been all over this story (particularly The Sun this morning) saying it's a great injustice that McCormick will only serve just over 3 and a half years and making out that it's all his fault.

As for McCormick's sentence, I think the full sentence of 7 years 4 months is just and would be more than adequate for his crime. What the press really need to be looking that at and basing their stories on is the whole criminal justice system. It's not McCormick's, or any other convicted criminal's fault, that the criminal justice system is a complete joke and that prisoners very often now only serve half of their given sentence.

Not sure how I sit on this one knowing I have driven whilst over the limit in my life and with considerably more than McCormick had in his system but never at the speed he was driving.
You can still kill at 30mph, but an impact at the speed he was driving was always likely to be a fatal accident.
With all the wrongs that McCormick made/did on that day he can not be responsible for the low sentence he has been given out by the justice system, that is the sentence stipulated by law.
It doesn't matter what you say to the parents of those two boys their lifes will take a lot longer than just a few years of the jail sentence McCormick has to ever be right again.

Community service might be the best soltion for McCormick and give something back to the community (if they will have him) and some self respect, because as sure as eggs are eggs he will not receive any respect from joe public for the rest of his life.

Did anyone see that BBC motorway programme last night, the one with the lorry that killed three people by not seeing the traffic stop in front of him.  He wasn't speeding, he just didn't see the cars stop (they were queuing for the M18).

He got 4 years for death by dangerous driving, I can't believe that McCormack can go out on th episs drive erratically and kill and only get 3 extra years.  The poor lorry driver looked devestated the moment he was told by the copper what had happened. 

One of the family's of the deceased wanted a longer punishment, but the wife of one of the deceased wanted a lesser punishment as the lorry driver had to live with his mistake for the rest of his life.

Fully agree Sam.

And before you know it he'll be in a open prison which is virtually like a holiday camp.

While I sometimes agree with the sentiment that prison sentences should be longer, the practical consequences would not allow it.  A doubling (for example) of prison sentences would lead to a doubling of the prison population - and there are many reasons, practically speaking, why that would not work.

Agreed, and when Judges are being directed to hand out non-custodial sentences on certain crimes due to "prison overcrowding" you know the justice system is pretty fucked.

I don''t subscribe to the rehabilitation is better than punishment argument. Clearly if (for eg) a burglar has been caught for the 27th time, locking up for 10 years means he will not cause further misery for those 10 years. After then, if he re-offends lock him up for 20 years.

We are far to namby pamby.

As someone else has already said it's not just the prison sentence he has to serve.

We all make mistakes and most of us are lucky enough to get away with them.

McCormick made a stupid, unforgivable mistake and will have to live with the realisation that he killed two children for the rest of his life. I for one don't think he's got away easy.....

yes i saw this last night. It actually moved me when seeing the lorry drivers face and then hearing from the relatives of the deceased. Brings it home big time when driving on the roads.
As the mans wife said he never set out to kill anyone and therfore would live with it for the rest of his life.

Where as McCormick was pissed and drove. Therfore he set out to kill someone. Because if he wasn't he wouldn't have fallen asleep and his concentration would have been higher. Thats my view on it and he deserves a much longer sentance.

Lifes a game of roulette,sometimes lifes unfair and the rules we set down are unfair in some cases we may think the sentence is too long or too short
IE a 77 year old granny gets 13 years for importing heroin yet you can kill two kids while driving drunk and get half that.
Ime not making a judgement ime just saying what alot of people think and thats the rules and sentences are not right in this country.
This goalkeeper should be supervised in the community and made to do his pennance by working in an enviroment ware he has caused so much distress.
Obviously some people are nasty and prison is the only answer but is prison the answer in this case?
It just depends on how you look at it ....if i was the kids father i would probably want him hung!

I agree Magic, I found that very hard hitting that moment when the driver closed his eyes and put his head back, you could see exactly what was going through that blokes mind.

I was astonished that he got 4 years for that, (and a 6 year driving ban) especially when you see the high speed chases that some kids get themselves involved in through residential areas where they're given a suspended sentence and a year ban.  It's all wrong, yes that lorry driver made a mistake, maybe he was changing his radio station, cd, maybe he yawned who knows, but 6 years ban, 4 years inside and a lifetime of guilt is far too heavy a punishment imo.

Ime a lorry driver Jan...felt for him but you cant have judges making sentencing decisions on what they think about the individual in serious cases like that ..thats why they have guidlines.
Its different for more minor cases and magistrates can use disgression.
Thats not always a good thing and many a time soft touch magistrates let people out on bail when its obvious they should be locked up.

even sneezing can make you close your eyes for a second which in that time your 200 yards down the road.
I thought he was hit really hard with his punishment and didn't deserve the ban/sentance he got but then again what would have been fair?!

it's a tough one to call on what is a fair sentance. killing through drink driving deserves a higher sentance IMO. I had a friend who killed a bloke through drink driving and she only served just short of 2 years. When she came out i had a chat in the local with her and the guilt on her face for what she'd done was very clear to see and she even agreed she deserved to be in longer for what she'd done.

But Leefer I would argue that that wasn't death by dangerous driving, it was death through driving without due care and attention (if there is such a thing).  I'm not talking about individual cases I think the whole system is wrong to a certain extent.

Someone who gets in a car and speeds, or drives whilst under the influence has taken a decision to do that, that is dangerous driving, not for a second seeing a car in front of you stop, that is by definition an accident.

Agreed Jan

As i said Jan its a very tricky one....and one thats got no easy answers really.
On a different note i heard yesterday that 9,224 people died on our roads last year alone thats a shocking stat really.

DeJa Vu  :eek:

i said to myself you'd quote over 9k people being killed etc before i opend the post!!!!

unless you've quoted this before on another thread about drink driving!!!!?????

I saw that program and yes, I had some sympathy with the driver and it was harrowing to watch.

But I find myself looking more from the victims viewpoint than through the guilty parties eyes. The driver has killed a husband, a mum and kid through his own negligence. 4 years doesn't seem too soft.

Probably have Magic...ime getting old and keep repeating myself!

Probably have magic, ime getting old and keep repeating myself!

I completey agree after watching that programme last night
which was bloody depressing

But when you hear the words of the wife (widow) I think her viewpoint, whilst remarkable at the time, is so true.  That lorry driver went to work to do a job, there was no intention on his behalf.  He had not sped, he had not driven illegal hours, he was just driving to his destination.  Yes he lacked attention for a second or two and the rest is history.

Her words were amazing, poor lady.

The same can not be said of people who make a decision to get in a car when they know they shouldn't and that's why the law is an arse.

Agree Janaage.

I cant think of another scenario where someone is punished by 4 years in jail for a spilt second lack of concentration or moment of madness.

The difference between that and driving whilst over the DD limit and tired is huge, and is not really reflected in the sentances we are talking about.

McCormick was quoted yesterday as saying "I am so sorry, I'm sorry.  I just fell asleep.  I fell asleep, I'm sorry".  That's wrong to me, he should have apologised for drink driving, not blaming it on falling asleep, especially as he fell asleep for a reason.  I'd be savage if that involved my family.

If I ever lost someone in that way - and I hope to god that nevers happens - I hope that I can have dignity and not be full of hate like the lady whos husband was killed by that lorry driver on that programme last night - not like those people with bad earring waving pictures outside the court on the Mccormick case.

I knew a guy, he was a friend of a friend that got killed by a drunk driver over wroughton way must be nearly 3 years now.

The guy who hit him had no insurnace, no license and was well over the limit. He also died in the crash.

Never been sure if thats justic or not. I guess two wrongs dont make a right but having the innocent person die and the guilty partly live is....I dunno doesnt seem right

He fell asleep because he had 2 hours sleep after being out all day. He shouldn't have been in the car for that alone, he shouldn't have been in the car for being over the limit and he shouldn't have been going at 90mph. All of those things are wrong, I don't see how you should pinpoint it on one of those things and not the other.

McCormick obviously felt it was his tiredness which led him to the accident. That's why he said that. That does not mean it was the root cause of the accident and it does not mean that he was trying to cover up for the other things (speeding and drink driving).

I get really uneasy about the mass calls for harsher punishment when stuff like this happens. I don't know why people are so desperate to punish someone they don't really know or have never met for a crime they weren't involved in with victims they didn't know.

If you look the reasons for a prison sentence, then the punishment side has got to be the least important aspect, behind protecting the public and a deterrent. I doubt the bloke is a risk to the public so the first one is out the window, and not many people are going to think "I wouldn't risk drink driving but that dude only got sentenced to....".

The blokes actions killed two children, who will never get their lives back, however much you punish Luke McCormick. I might just be young, but even if he just served half then 3years 8months is still a long time. Not compared to the value of the lives of the two children, but then what's gained by ruining another persons life even more? He'll have a lot of consequences he'll have to personally work through, including his prison sentence.

What would keeping him in prison for a decade, two decades, etc. really achieve? It might go some way to quench the public lust for retribution, but not much more.

That's kind of my point Si (I am aware of what he'd been up to prior to the crash, just didn't see the point of repeating all that).  I just do not think he should have said "I just fell asleep" as he didn't just fall asleep, an array of things led to what happened, as you've pointed out, and for him to say "I'm sorry, I just feel asleep" is wrong.

Your view seems to basically be that there's no point in punishing anyone harshly for anything as long as they do not pose a threat to society?

Although in some ways I sort of agree there isnt much point in putting some offenders away for decades just for the sake of it, it does not actually achieve anything . 

But letting someone out to get on with their life after 3 years 8 months who through his own irresponsible behavior has killed 2 people, serverly diasbled another as well as the wider emotional damage to friends and family of the affected couple is simply not fair. McCormack is a young man himself, he'd only be 28 if he served half his sentance.

Perhaps let him out but give him a randomly timed beating every couple of months?

It's a lot of people as an absolute number Leefer, but taken as a percentage of people using the road, or total number of journeys it's miniscule.

i thought the death toll was around the 3000 mark and went down last year for the first time in ages?

3150 in 2006  apparently - reveal your sources Leefer ! - were you counting badgers as well ?

Don't get your point there though Nev.  100 people isn't a lot when you consider how many people go to football matches each week/month/season/decade, but when 100 people die at Hillsborough it's a national tragedy (and quite rightly so).  9,000 is an awful lot of lives to be wasted needlessly (even if its over 3 years not one).  That's like everyone who attended Leeds match being killed by the time of the London Olympics.

If they keep booing thats not a bad thing.

I was more responding to the point of mentioning it in this thread.

Of course any road death could be described as needless, but it'd be illiuminating to see a more detailed breakdown of these tragedies - mechanical failure - outside agency (not CIA) - coronary failure etc, as well as the DUI/dangerous driving number as well.

I agree with the general tack of the thread - justice system screwed/this act more culpable that a one off genuine accident/should be left to recreate life after sentence served - but it's impossible to tell how I would feel if I were affected on either side of the subject.

"but it's impossible to tell how I would feel if I were affected on either side of the subject."

Agreed.

I think I will retire gracefully from this thread now.

Might not be very P.C. - but as a father if that happened to any of my family I would wait very patiently until he was released, then I would do the same to him that he did to my family.....

You're right - that's not very P.C.

Not very pc or intelligent. 

Getting locked up for x years will make your family really happy of course

I have to eat humble pie and say i was wrong....the 9000 mark included the injured as well,it was actually 3,015 deaths...in fact more people died in falls and more incredibly more people 3,200 took ther own lives...on that grisly note i will apologise for being wrong and will now change the subject!!

Do either of you have kids Rich or Colin ???

I don't no. I made my point on this topic on page 2.

Fair nuff - page 2 seemes like along time ago !!!

This may not be PC, but if I had kids and someone ran them over I'd be fucking grateful. I hate kids.

I haven't got a PC, I use a laptop................

on this subject, Jimmy Davis had been drinking and drove and crashed, but killed himself and hes treated like a hero, he could have quite easily have hit a car rather than the fuck off lorry he hit, Hasney was saying the other day if the whole plymouth squad had to name 1 player who would be most likely to do this sort of stupid thing McCormich would be everyones last choice everytime, he reckons hes a lovely lad and very out of character to do anything that is against the law

t'is a good point about davis

I had no sympathy for mccormack but did think the pain he would live with would be bad, i was disgusted when mccormack said'fuck off twat' to the boys uncle outside court(thats if the reports were true)

Could,would, if only......small words with big meanings....IF ONLY he didnt drink and drive,he COULD and WOULD still be the nice bloke who wouldnt break the law.

im not defending him mate, just what people who know him well say about him, what he did was disgraceful whether hes a nice guy or not, what makes me sick is when Dell was on here saying how lucky he was that the police didnt pull him over after driving home pissed up

I know what you mean...but history is full of fine lines and hard luck storys....and fate.

With the amount of abuse McCormick got from relatives getting all up in his grill outside court, i can completely understand him having a go back... regardless of circumstances, if you get that treatment, you will react.

Really. I'm surprised he has the gall. Did he expect the relatives to be understanding. I'd imagine some of them would want him dead. I think I would.

Maybe reacting was a snap moment, but he should have known what was coming.

I'm not saying it was right, but i understand how it would happen...

A person I work with had the misfortune of cutting Mr Davis out of his car that morning.

Also wasnt McCormick involved with road safety or something?

It doesn't really matter does it? He's been a dick, done something incredibly stupid and it's led to tragedy and his punishment.

It's got nothing to do with Jimmy Davis and the fact McCormick did a road safety campaign just makes it all the more stupid.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/7720615.stm

Dont think he meant it personally

Regardless of the situation, it's a fucking lame gesture. Two kids dead = no worthy public gesture whether he's your buddy or not.

Sky News were making this out to be massive news... There's a bit of a witch hunt thing going on at the moment, no one in the public eye is safe. He did it for a matter of seconds, unlike people like Tim Cahill who made a point of doing the celebration. I doubt Norris thought too much about it and feels a right idiot.

Thing is no one said he did it for mccormack people just assumed.

He showing support to his mate, fair enough.

No where does he condone what McCormick did or claim he shouldnt be in prision or anything.

As usual total over re-action.

It was clearly in reference to McCormick because he's accepted the punishment from Ipswich.

Had I done such a thing and had it wrongly interpreted as a gesture to something unrelated I'd protest my innocence a little bit more than Norris did.

He's a good footballer though.

As DV states it's another over-reation.

He was a pratt - end of. He obviuosly doesn't have the intellect to think thruogh his actions. In view of the delay since McCormack went to prison and this action then he's obviously planned it for a while but has been too thick to see the consequences. We tried to sign him years ago when he was at Bolton.

This is a perfect example though, people are saying its a over reaction but ignoring the fact norris has said he didn't do it for that reason.

Yet also accepting a fine and basically being told he's gone if does it again. C'mon, we all know it was in reference to McCormick.

Kerry Katona is still telling the press she wasn't drunk on live television the other week.

I know what your saying rich suppose i am being naive

perhaps hes just a fan of x factor?

Or D-Generation X!

Well, D-Generation-X are probably the best out of the 3 choices. Maybe he'll be doing crotch chops next week

What a great phrase 'crotch chops' is. The press wouldn't see that coming.

[url width=504 height=364]http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Midfield/2468/balti14.jpg[/url]

BREAK IT DOWN!

Or the US version of Pimp My Ride.

Bump