Thetownend.com

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/7108764.stm

I don't know why but part of me is kinda glad about this.  Might make them realise how much more is required playing for England and stop taking so much for granted.

So am I, bunch of spineless tossers.
Just ordered my liechtenstein shirt btw

Becks needs to be involved. Sorry but he is the only player who gives a toss out there. To me he is STILL the best player for England. BECKS IS STILL GOD!

I can't imagine Becks still playing in 2010 to be honest.

maybe we will do better in a group where we dont expect to win every game easily?

MEANT QUALIFIERS

Ok, no need for caps is there.

He won't still be playing at five past, let alone 10.

Gaz have you gone to Ibiza since Leeds?

Not sure thats a good thing , only the group winners qualify automatically, otherwise its a play off  (and only 8 of the 9 group runners -up are involved)

I assume(but don't know) that it's a two legged play off

Whats the point?  If someone isnt going to play in WC2010 (if we qualify) then they should'nt be playing in the qualifiers, especially as we have quite a few half decent young right wingers that may improve with experience

sorry had caps lock on for work! Becks IMO should be the first name on the teamsheet right now. no questions asked.

I agree with Fatbury.   :shock:

Gutted england and Scotland won't be in the same group as that would have been interesting.

Just hope we get an easier group this time around.

But surely you should play the players that will give you the best chance of qualifying first.  Worry about the WC when/if you get there.

maybe we'll do better with a competant manager?

Probably.

I've previously hated the bloke, but I have to say Beckham is the only player right now I would say deserves a spot.  He so clearly wants to do well for England and is still a good quality player (so no coming back with the "I would want to play for England but that doesn't mean I should" arguments").

For me we should almost assume we will not qualify and assume even if we do we will not bein with a shout.  The that allows us to spend the next 2-3 years sorting out our National structure.  We have to sit down and really figure out if we give a fuck about England or if Chelsea can sign another couple of foreign talents to play in their reserves.

If it's the first option then we gut the team, backroom and youth set-up etc,  Start again from the bottom up.  Give the Manager all power to piss off team managers, get a group of players together who would rather tplay for England than be concerned if they get a bit tired for a league game.  Sort out the youth set-up right from the very bottom.  Quite frankly it's the way I would go but I fear people will continue to be brainwashed into the Sky TV League view that it's all about Bolton vs Wigan on a Sunday at 4.05pm.  The balance has gone to far this way I fear and we'll just have to accept England is like a day off for the players.

Just seems a bit illogical to me. It seems like a perfect opportunity to thank some of the old guard like Campbell and Beckham for theior efforts and give some youngsters a try. Despite the bollocks about us not producing young talent, the likes of Bentley, Young, Agbonlahor, Taylor have real promise to me and should now be given a chance.

I see the point, but the qualifiers don't even start until next September. How many proper games do you think Beckham will complete in the meantime ?

So we play Carson, Richards, SWP, Barry, Agbonlahor, Bentley and Young and Drop Robinson/James, Neville, Beckham et al purely on the basis that they might not be playing for England in 3 years time?

I accept your point - when Sven took charge he completely shook it up and got results. But I'd still play the best XI at that given time in a any competitive fixture

Surprisingly about the same as players from the Premier League. The MLS season starts in the Spring I think and therefore he will play through the Summer getting match fitness etc and be at his best for the qualifiers.

I think a recent problem with england has been, people seem to get carried away about players like Micah Richards, Lescott, Agbonlahor, Bentley and others.

It's like they watch certain youngster play on Match of The Day and think what a star in the making, he's quality.  This isn't helped by Hansen, Shearer Lawrenson banging on about them week in week out either.

The truth is Richards, Lescott and agbonlahor haven't competed at the Champo League or UEFA Cup level on a regular basis, maybe a year?  They haven't competed at Premiership level for that long.  the Russians, Croatians, Italians, Germans, French all have champions league experience which helps.

Even the Scottish side now has a number of players who are playing either SPL/EPL each week, or playing in Europe on a regular basis.  The problem with us is strength in depth - we have none.

I know England have their stars but the youngsters shouldn't be relied upon so heavily, imho.

Yes. (except Barry isnt that young and i'd play Hargereaves instead if fit but thats not really my point)

Back to the point, I'm not suggesting ditching the whole squad as it stands now - as we've seen our 2nd choice back 4 really isnt very good, and the 1st choice players are all of the right age to be playing in WC2010. Our older players will be another 10 months older by the time of our next competitive game and closer to the scrapheap. We should try and intergrate some of the young talent into the 1st team along with the players we have who SHOULD be quality, Gerrard, Rooney, Terry, Ferdinand etc

McLaren would rather have capped Phil Neville again or called up Defoe who cant even get a game for spurs. I understand the point about lack of experience, but what better way to give players that are not at CL clubs experience than get them in and around teh nation team 1st XI. Agbonlahor for example is playing every game for Villa and is top Scoring Englishman in the premiership. Defoe has done fuck all for about 18 monts now, unless you count scoreing in the league cup and againts no mark opposition in the UEFA

Jan, has Scotland benefited from having the young player quote thingy they have in the SPL?

The only way England is going gain the depth of experience at high levels is to encourage young players to play abroad.

That is also a good point. They might actually learn something about ball retention

and simulation.

Indeed. Even the quality of our diving is poor. I'm looking at you Joe Cole

Indeed. Even the quality of our diving is poor. I'm looking at you Joe Cole

thats nothing, decent european players can get through a good 3 acts of showmanship and an interval in the middle.

Do you know what I'm not 100% sure.  There's a number of things you have to take into account when talking about Scotland's "recovery".

Firstly is let's not get carried away with our performance.  5 matches into the next qualifiers we'll really knwo if we've turned the corner and are as good as recent results suggest.

Secondly having two Scots in charge of Rangers and Celtic have helped enormously.  That's enabled players like McManus, Kennedy, Scott Brown, Kris Boyd, Hutton, Caldwell and others have that essential European experience.

Thirdly clubs like Hibs, who don't have the money to buy expensive foreigners, should take some of the credit.  In the last few years Hibs have nurtured some excellent players and Scotland are reaping the rewards.

However the young player quota hasn't gone down too well, especially with the Old firm who don't like to pay these fella's on a fair wage to sit in the stands.  

I think it makes the game more of a sport and not just about money, so having wrote this, I'm entirely convinced by it, but I'm willing to let it carry on.

Not sure what Will's view would be on this though.

Are you having a laugh, in Gerrard and Owen you have two of the best "simulation experts" in the business.

they're not a patch on the likes of Dida.

Dida excluded from previous post.

Simeone.

Is it not possible that you had a good generation of youngsters who would have made it sooner or later anyway?   ie gone to "lesser" clubs before proving themselves and being picke up by the likes of the old firm?

Personally I dont see how it harms young english talent at big clubs to go on loan to the championship. Scott sinclair at Chelsea for example probablly wouldnt stand much chance of getting a european game currently but is getting good experience in the championship at 19. Conversley, if there were quotas and he did stand a chance of getting a game instead of Droba for example, Chelsea would be a lot less likley to advance to the later stages for obvious reasons

I;m not sure the Scottish quote system would have much impact, not a great deal anyway, on clubs.  It's a small number of players in the match day squad as I understand it and Chelsea/Man Utd would be easily able to adapt.  Arsenal would be the most put out to start with.  It's just one idea though, and the response of how will it impact Chelsea's chance in Europe goes to show how we generally think.  If we really want a good England team then why should anyone bar Chelsea fans give a shit about their European chances?  As it is, our best performance as clubs in Europe came in a period where very few non British players played in our league.

I think there is a real issue with the level of talent coming through at the moment, it seems less and less based on technique and more and more on whether they are quick or not.  There are very few performances of quality in the Prem league that don't come from a select bunch of foreign imports.  ON the back of that we relax and pat ourselves on the back for having "the best league in the world".  That's a statement I'd never support anyway, Spain's league is a class above, Italy is more difficult etc.  The one thing it was in the past was competitive, thus ensuring we made up for a lack of talent with spirit and ability to not be beaten.  I see this as gradually declining.

The rankings are a joke anyway, if you get us in the group it will be interesting

Germany would win that group, with England vying for 2nd position along with the 3rd pot team.  This is simply because the Germans are good at going to places lie Macedonia, Serbia, etc and getting 3 points on a regular basis.  England always seem to struggle in such places, and rely mainly on their amazing home form to pull them through.

Greece, Portugal and the Czechs would probably be the easiest top ranked side to play against

That'll be the same Czechs that finished above Germany...underestimate the Czechs at your peril...