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Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 18:50:36 I know many of us are somewhat dismayed by today's lack of Trust backing but we have to put this to one side and get on with things as we don't have time.
If you do feel very strongly about the situation and do want to protest before the game, bring yourself (and others if you can) to the magic roundabout at 2 o clock to make a stand. Bring a banner if you want (an old sheet and some paint is all you need to make one). Anything visual to add to the message. Please keep any criticism of the Trust/Paul Sturrock/The Board/Coffee Minstrels etc to the other threads, just because it allows clarity. This thread is simply to make this happen and show others what's going down. With all my love Si xxx Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 20:34:55 Yes i shall see you there :D
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Bogus Dave on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 20:37:04 Wont we get ran over?
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: dell boy on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 20:39:03 Quote from: "STFC dave" Wont we get ran over? If you walk in front of a car, yes!! :roll: Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Bogus Dave on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 20:42:34 haha, i didn't know if their were any barriers their, i've never really payed close attention to the centre of the magic roundabout.
Also, what happened to the cardboard cut outs off of last season. Wil they be making an appearance again?? Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: sonic youth on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 20:57:44 they've decomposed sadly dave
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Bogus Dave on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 20:58:37 oh :(
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 21:02:58 The lamp room (where thay are stored) leaks like a French public pissoir.
Perhaps we can reform them into papier mache effigies of Diamandis and James Wills and immolate them in the middle of the MR. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Bogus Dave on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 21:04:11 Quote from: "TalkTalk" The lamp room (where thay are stored) leaks like a French public pissoir. Perhaps we can reform them into papier mache effigies of Diamandis and James Wills and immolate them in the middle of the MR. I haven't a clue what any of that means, but do it anyway Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 22:04:32 I don't think going in the centre of the MR is very legal. If people want to do this they can arrange it at the time. I'm afraid I'll be on the grass verge because of this.
As long as we're in the vicinity of the MR and we're all on the same page (I'm sure we will be) then it's all good. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Fred Elliot on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 22:10:11 very clear message from plod today that anybody on the central island will get moved along
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 22:11:13 Quote from: "Si Pie" I don't think going in the centre of the MR is very legal. I don't think that it is illegal Si. It's more that the police will take a view that it is potentially distracting to drivers (not a crime) and move you on. An interesting scenario - I would like to understand on what law the police would use to achieve this. As it is outside the limits of the CG and any football legislation then I don't see what right they would have. Anybody can sit in the middle of a roundabout. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 22:23:29 In fact I cannot find any legislation that prohibits occupancy of a roundabout, either in squatter law or in the Highway Code.
It isn't blocking the Queen's Highway. I think it would take the owner of the property (presumably the council) to get an injunction to remove you from their property. Like getting shot of pikeys. That would take much longer than a couple of hours :D Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Fred Elliot on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 22:23:36 officially it is still classed as the queens highway
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 22:25:33 Quote from: "Fred Elliot" officially it is still classed as the queens highway But it is not being blocked Fred. Traffic still has free passage. Oh I love arguing a point of law with the establishment. :wink: Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 22:25:44 I can't really cause any agro with the fuzz. If someone else wants to rally people up on the day then fine.
I just think for now we should concentrate on getting people there, the visuals there and the rest will follow. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 22:27:56 I'll stand in the middle and see what the point of law is, just out of interest.
It is good preparation for any future events. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 22:32:24 In fact I will wear a suit and tie and carry a clipboard and pretend I am doing a traffic survey.
:D Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: axs on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 23:31:09 Quote from: "Si Pie" I can't really cause any agro with the fuzz. If someone else wants to rally people up on the day then fine. I just think for now we should concentrate on getting people there, the visuals there and the rest will follow. me too. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: pauld on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 23:32:26 As a point of info, the cops today said they wouldn't arrest people for standing in the centre of the roundabout per se, but they probably would take the view that anyone stood there was causing a potential traffic hazard and so would ask them to move on. Anyone who refused to move on having been asked to do so by a police officer would risk arrest.
Erm clearly the above is a paraphrase of what they told us - I am NOT an official spokesman for Wiltshire Feds (whatever some of you may think!) Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 23:34:33 Quote from: "pauld" Anyone who refused to move on having been asked to do so by a police officer would risk arrest. And what law is that Paul? Loitering with intent to be stationary? I'm not being funny but you can't be arrested for standing still. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: pauld on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 23:43:24 Quote from: "TalkTalk" Quote from: "pauld" Anyone who refused to move on having been asked to do so by a police officer would risk arrest. And what law is that Paul? Loitering with intent to be stationary? I'm not being funny but you can't be arrested for standing still. Oh, breach of the peace is the usual. I understand what you're saying Alan but in practice if they think they need to nick you to make you do something/stop you from doing something, they will. I'd imagine there is some kind of catchall in Road Traffic law about not distracting traffic (which was the general point they seemed to be making today along with the perennial Elfi'n'Safety) which they could use to justify asking people to move on in the first place, then if you refuse either something under that law, obstructing an officer in the course of his duty or as I say the old standby of BoP. You may be right that there isn't actually a law that gives them specific powers of arrest in this circumstance (The Magic Roundabout (Standing in the Middle of) Act 2004 or something), but I'm just trying to say that in practice not having the applicable legislation won't stop you from getting nicked. Arguing the toss with the coppers on a point of law (ESPECIALLY if you're right) is a pretty good way of guaranteeing an afternoon in the vans. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 23:46:59 Quote from: "pauld" Arguing the toss with the coppers on a point of law (ESPECIALLY if you're right) is a pretty good way of guaranteeing an afternoon in the vans. Hmmm. I'm up for that. I'll bring a solicitor along with me. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 23:51:24 Shall I ask my solicitor tomorrow? :P
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 23:52:41 Quote Breach of the peace There is no offence of breach of the peace. But if a police officer sees a breach of the peace or reasonably believes that a breach of the peace is about to start, he or she may arrest, disperse or detain those causing the problem and, if necessary, take them before a Magistrates' Court to be bound over. There is a breach of the peace whenever a person causes harm or appears likely to cause harm to persons or property, or acts in a manner, the natural consequence of which, is to provoke others to violence. If a breach of the peace occurs, one or more of the public order offences of threatening behaviour, disorderly conduct, assault or criminal damage is likely to have been committed. In such a case, the police can choose whether to charge an offence or go before the magistrates for a bind-over order. That's fine. Standing still doesn't figure in that one. http://www.yourrights.org.uk/your-rights/chapters/the-right-of-peaceful-protest/public-order-offences/breach_of_the_peace.shtml Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 23:59:09 Quote Static Demonstrations and Assemblies Unlike public processions, there is normally no requirement to give prior notice of an assembly but, under the Public Order Act, the police do have specific powers to control assemblies. Two persons can constitute an ‘assembly’. A public place is any highway (including the pavement) and any other place to which the public or a section of the public can have access. The senior police officer at the scene has the power to impose conditions but only if he or she reasonably believes that: * The conditions are necessary to prevent serious public disorder, serious damage to property or serious disruption to the life of the community, or * The purpose of the person organising the assembly it is to intimidate others. The only conditions may be imposed on a public assembly under POA are on: * Location of the assembly, * Maximum number of people participating in the assembly, * Maximum duration of the assembly Note also that although the police have power to impose conditions, there is no power to ban a public assembly altogether, Therefore if the conditions are so strict that they in effect prohibit the assembly from taking effect in any meaningful way (such as if the conditions restrict the protest to 5 people, in a side street away from the public and for a maximum of 5 minutes), it may be that they amount to a ban and are unlawful. An attempt by the police to impose excessively strict conditions may also be a breach of the protesters rights to assembly under Article 11 of the Convention. http://www.yourrights.org.uk/your-rights/chapters/the-right-of-peaceful-protest/static-demonstrations-rallies-and-assemblies/static-demonstrations-and-assemblies.shtml Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: pauld on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 23:59:27 Lovely. Won't stop them nicking you. The definition you're relying on would be pertinent in a court but if they're looking to charge you they wouldn't rely on BoP anyway, they'd charge either under Road Traffic Regs or Public Order Offences if you'd cut up lairy when they tried to move you on. BoP is most often used to justify an arrest when there's no intent to charge or to justify an initial arrest when they're not sure what it is you're actually doing but are pretty damn sure there must be something about it somewhere and we'll look it up when we get back to the nick. And sometimes it's used because they genuinely fear a breach of the peace. (NB none of the above should be taken as in anyway being useful or valid legal advice).
Bottom line is, if you're asked to move off the MR and refuse to do so eventually they'll get fed up and nick you. If you want to try it out as a test case, all well and good, but the general advice is more aimed at those who want to not get nicked. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: sonic youth on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 00:08:58 alan, you could quote every law in the book until you're blue in the face - if plod want to nick you, they will.
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 00:14:15 Quote from: "pauld" They'd charge either under Road Traffic Regs or Public Order Offences if you'd cut up lairy when they tried to move you on. I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it PD, I'm just fascinated by what rights the police think they have over law abiding peaceful individuals. If I didn't "cut up lairy" and I avoided all of threatening behaviour, disorderly conduct, assault or criminal damage - public order offences and I also did not obstruct the Queen's Highway then they would not have any grounds to move me on. I'm well up for an afternoon's conversation with Wiltshire's finest. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: sonic youth on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 00:17:32 Quote from: "TalkTalk" I'm just fascinated by what rights the police think they have over law abiding peaceful individuals. a badge. nuff said Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 00:18:10 Quote from: "sonic youth" alan, you could quote every law in the book until you're blue in the face - if plod want to nick you, they will. No bollocks Sonic. The police are there to uphold and enforce the law. If the law is not being broken then they cannot act. Sure they can advise and cajole but they can't arrest or detain people for doing nothing. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: pauld on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 01:47:10 Quote from: "TalkTalk" Quote from: "pauld" They'd charge either under Road Traffic Regs or Public Order Offences if you'd cut up lairy when they tried to move you on. I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it PD, I'm just fascinated by what rights the police think they have over law abiding peaceful individuals. Yes I understand that - tbh my posts were more aimed at practical advice for those who wanted to avoid arrest. Quote If I didn't "cut up lairy" and I avoided all of threatening behaviour, disorderly conduct, assault or criminal damage - public order offences and I also did not obstruct the Queen's Highway then they would not have any grounds to move me on. All of which are interesting legal points in and of themselves - but you'll still get nicked if you refuse to move on from the MR when asked to. Quote I'm well up for an afternoon's conversation with Wiltshire's finest. And I strongly suspect you will be provided with ample opportunity to do so! Although quite how chatty they'll be once you're in custody is another matter :D Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: red macca on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 11:23:02 Alan you would be asked to move if you refused then they will ask again if you refuse again they will arrest you for a public disorder offence and not for standing still. Its cuntish but the way it works
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 11:42:39 Quote from: "red macca" Alan you would be asked to move if you refused then they will ask again if you refuse again they will arrest you for a public disorder offence and not for standing still. Its cuntish but the way it works Even more so as it will be seen as a football related offence, any rights you have as a normal citizen go out the window in football circumstances Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Arriba on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 11:43:54 sonic is right.coppers dont need an excuse to nick you.if they want to they will.
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: TalkTalk on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 11:56:03 How about if we stood an inflatable Mikey D in the middle of the roundabout instead?
Si? Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Phil_S on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 13:48:14 Maybe they'd arrest him for having a likeness of himself there.
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Spencer_White on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 14:54:25 Are you going ahead with this?
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Simon Pieman on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 16:11:22 Well I've got a sheet and some spray paint, so will be making a banner and turning up.
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Samdy Gray on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 16:53:00 I got my sheet today. I'm going to make up my banner tomorrow night after I've had a few banner-inspiring beers 8)
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 17:27:04 Si's banner is looking good :D
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: flammableBen on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 17:51:44 Sorry I couldn't come and play banner making Si, I only just finished work. Fucking slave drivers
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Simon Pieman on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 18:48:47 That's alright Ben. I couldn't afford to buy too much stuff in the end really.
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Reeves for King on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 20:43:36 So what is actually happening then? Is there going to be anthing going on or shall we stay in the pub?
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 20:46:45 Quote from: "Reeves for King" So what is actually happening then? Is there going to be anthing going on or shall we stay in the pub? Yes come down to the MR at 2pm. We have a banner (Si has done one and i think a few others are doing one as well). I think we'll be on the grass verge somewhere so we are not impeding any laws or anything. But you should come on down. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 20:50:01 What are we actually going too do. just stand around and look mean
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 20:55:01 Quote from: "STFC dave" What are we actually going too do. just stand around and look mean Make some noise. If you don't want to then don't bother. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 20:57:17 I probably will go, but i dont have a banner, so i'l stand at the back and snarl at passers by
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Sussex on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 21:10:27 Quote from: "STFC dave" I probably will go, but i dont have a banner, so i'l stand at the back and snarl at passers by Surely you can knock one up with this on: "Oi. I came 846th out 0f 1800 people in the Swindon half marathon you fuckers!" The general public love a bit of local interest 8) Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Reeves for King on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 21:12:42 Just have a fire in a dustbin and wave some boards around if all else fails, that always attracts attention. 8)
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 21:13:25 haha i might do that :D
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Fred Elliot on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 22:32:23 Quote from: "Reeves for King" Just have a fire in a dustbin and wave some boards around if all else fails, that always attracts attention. 8) ooooohhh can we have sausages on sticks please ? Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: sonic youth on Friday, October 19, 2007, 00:21:30 Quote from: "Reeves for King" Just have a fire in a dustbin and wave some boards around if all else fails, that always attracts attention. 8) we'll just get moved along into town and shoved under a subway with the rest of the hobos. (i'll bring my fingerless gloves) Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: flammableBen on Friday, October 19, 2007, 00:23:53 It's all about setting fire to stuff.
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: axs on Friday, October 19, 2007, 00:25:48 usually yourself. egopyromaniac.
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Bennett on Friday, October 19, 2007, 06:21:03 Quote from: "Fred Elliot" Quote from: "Reeves for King" Just have a fire in a dustbin and wave some boards around if all else fails, that always attracts attention. 8) ooooohhh can we have sausages on sticks please ? linda macartney i hope? Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Fred Elliot on Friday, October 19, 2007, 08:30:39 Of course
Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Sippo on Friday, October 19, 2007, 08:31:40 Quote from: "Fred Elliot" Quote from: "Reeves for King" Just have a fire in a dustbin and wave some boards around if all else fails, that always attracts attention. 8) ooooohhh can we have sausages on sticks please ? Get Ben to do his Death Burgers... Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: STFC4LIFE on Friday, October 19, 2007, 11:34:00 Just a qucik question, sorry if it's already been mentioned.
But after the trust didn't back the MR protest. Are other fans aware it's still going ahead? Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Friday, October 19, 2007, 12:30:19 Quote from: "STFC4LIFE" Just a qucik question, sorry if it's already been mentioned. But after the trust didn't back the MR protest. Are other fans aware it's still going ahead? In a way yes and in a way no. Basically it isn't "still" going ahead. The Trust basically shut it off. But we are basically doing our own one. So yes anyone who reads these forums will know we are going to stage some sort of protest. It might not have great numbers but if people can spread the word then that is great. Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Fred Elliot on Friday, October 19, 2007, 14:25:41 is it just going to be a TEF one then ??
:wink: :wink: Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: The_Plagiarist on Friday, October 19, 2007, 15:47:29 It'll be 10-12 internet geeks shouting "down with this sort of thing" :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:
I include myself in that before anyone starts crying Title: Magic Roundabout Protest (again) Post by: Simon Pieman on Friday, October 19, 2007, 16:36:39 Quote from: "The_Plagiarist" It'll be 10-12 internet geeks shouting "down with this sort of thing" :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: I include myself in that before anyone starts crying That's made me cry more :boohoo: I guess we'll have to see what happens. As I said before it's not the end of the world if hardly anyone turns up. The banners can be used after the game and in the future anyway. |