Thetownend.com

about this deal.

If the Adver figures are to be believed (and no one has come out denying them). Why would anyone even ask £8 million for a company £11 million in debt??? Why would anyone even think about paying £8 million for a company £11 million in debt????

Its my opinion that STFC isnt the drain that Wills/Diamandis have us believe it is. Someones done some serious creaming off over the past few years. And some of these debts look suspicious to me, like someone at STFC wants us to be paying large interest rates for many years to come.

End of the day, all they would have to do to disprove all of that would be to produce up to date accounts. But they dont, and any accounts that take 18 months to compile are not worth the paper they are written on.

Aren't the accounts up to date now?

Well yes we've been paying interest to the bloody board members each year, which has meant that each year there's a loss to be covered by more loans, which means the next year the loss is bigger and more loans........... until we're where we are now. Hocked up to the eyeballs to the Wills family.

I'm pretty sure Bob Holt said on the radio it was less than a third of what was quoted.
Bob is always right so we should be fine.

IIRC, the annual interest payments amount to around £750,000 a year.

And our annual losses are... wait, hang on a minute... £750,000 a year.

Strange, that.

Not quite, interest equated to just over £375,000 in 2005/06.  Probably over £400k a year now though.

Our losses are generally over £1m, only going below when we've sold players on top.  The Admin expenses run at around 50% of turnover, which is a bit on the high side to say the least.

I thought it was £750k over 2 years. Although that's still astonishing.

just shy of that figure, yes.

Given another year has passed, then it's over £1m in 3 years

Bob said the debt was not £18m, it was around 1/3 of that, and made out that was a rebuttal to the Adver story. But that wasn't the Adver story - they never said the debt was £18m, they said the deal was worth £18m, with £8m-£11m of that going to SSW/the holding co. Standard smear tactic really - try and discredit a story you don't like by denying something different.

yep, if you take out the money related to the Wills family you'd probably be at around £6m of debt, maybe closer to £7m.

If the club was being sold for £1, Wills was cancelling hsis loans, and the rest remained payable, then the deal would be worth £6m to £7m still.  Just you wouldn't have to pay it all upfront.

This is the sort of stuff Im on about.

St Modwen? 3 million? Fingers in the pie I rekon.

Although the Adver may not have quoted an £18 million there are some sources that have, perhaps Bob Holt got confused by that. Not trying to say whether he's telling the truth or not, just pointing out it could be an easy mistake to make.

I think we need a new 5 year plan, they always work  :|

Bob Holt doesn't make mistakes like that. He knew exactly what he was saying. Remember he was once an aide to Maxwell.

Indeed. Maxwell had aides

Basically the monies Wills etc are asking for back were accrued in 2 ways:

Incompetent management
Money going off down the M4 into other interests

I would be very suprised, looking at gates, wage budget, player sales if little or any of these losses were #real# football losses.

Why can't Wills just go and have a chat with Jack Hayward about how to sell a club if you really are a fan and just want what is best for the club..............................

i think theyve been busy trying to hide that t.rex skeleton in their closet from the acountants.

You know I've got this nagging thought at the back of my mind that what's behind all this is Sir Seton getting earache from the missus about making sure he gets the bloody money back!

With everything going on wouldn't it be good for Seton to sit down with a reporter - say the adver - and explain his position as majority shareholder in an interview and what he would like in a deal and how he would like to see someone to take the football club forward, and discuss everything he has put in etc etc

I expect his advisor has advised him against it though.

i cant understand why a guy with diamond mikes track record is sir setons adviser. perhaps the two have something in common up to now diamond mike has been a disaster for our club.  with him as his adviser it goes to show that sir seton is on a different wavelength in thought  than all the fans of stfc. maybe only he could explain why 100% of fans and past employees think this guy will destroy our club and lets face it within the next 2 weeks we could all be proven right.

I think he is more James Wills' advisor

Six million quid was what Bill Power mentioned that he didn't have, wonder where he got the figure from.

Basically Wills has employed incompetents to run he club, racked up big losses through this and money going down the M4 over the last 6 years, and now wants a buyer to pay him all the mony back that is his own fault he has lost in the beginning.

What a bloody cheek- no businessman is going to agree to that.

Basically- best thing to happen could be a winding up petition- which is only being staved off by Diamandis best mate Andronikou as the CVA hs effectively failed. The judge would have to be made aware of all offers, and no judge will rule that if you run a business into the ground you should get all your losses back that are only down to your incompetence.

I reckon that Sir Seton is a pretty genuine bloke, and looks like he has just been advised really badly by those around him and money has gone down the pan despite seemingly large influxes of revenue from players, big gates etc. I'm not sure how a Ltd company works but do shareholders have to request the accounts or can anyone request them? Would be interesting to read them. Meanwhile we are in the dark and fans are making wild and angry digs at the board but because there is no clarity we don't know who is causing the hold up in the deal. 'Minor issues' don't take 3 moths to resolve.

might be something to do with they know a winding up order is days or weeks away. best have obviously found something  they are not happy with. it could be a case of heres our final offer sign here or your going down the pan. in all honesty best have nothing to lose they can just move on. the football club and particular this board cant untill someone buys out wills and the debts. the best takeover will have its downsides but here and now they are our only hope.

Actually, I believe you will find that is is HER money that has been put in!!

Erm, I don't think so.

Sir Seton is the hereditary peer of the WD & HO Wills family, not his wife.

I know alot of people will probably disagree with me here i know that we badly need money and no-one wants us to go under.

However i feel that BEST holdings would be the worst people to take over the club, they are to secretive and have never outlined their plans for the club and i and many others feel that they will just use the club as a feeder team to show off talent and sell players, i don't think they will be worried what division we are in, plus there's the downside of sturrock going if they come in, i agree that the club is alot more important than sturrock which it is of course but why get rid of a decent manager like sturrock who has done a great job for us and most fans love him, he is a very popular man, we don't want brevett/veiga in charge.

In my opinion the best thing that could happen is if the takeover with BEST holdings fell through and someone else came in and they backed sturrock, i am sure that there will be a few other's interested, BEST cannot be the only ones.

This takeover seems to be dragging on and on, if BEST won't pay the debts i would tell them enough is enough and speak to other parties if there is other's interested, personally i am hoping that the BEST takeover collapses as i don't think it is in the best interests of the club, it may sound controversial but surely i cannot be the only person on here who has big doubts about BEST holdings.

I agree but then again I am suspicious of anyone trying to take over the club.

are you sure, isnt the Wills family name hers not his....

No, it's his name.

Ive heard its her family who owned the tobacco company?

ironicly the wills family had many landmark buildings built in brizzle over the years and are on paper minted.i think if the best takeover falls thru someone will pull the plug on the club. although they are not that welcome. in the short term i doubt a fresh takeover could be completed before the league and crediters lose patience.

You heard wrong


http://www.thepeerage.com/p3785.htm#i37849


http://members.cox.net/ghgraham/ernestwills1869.html

It may be in his name, but it is Lady Wills who actually provided the dosh.  I am not sure how it worked, but I believe some of the land that she owned was mortgaged to provide the cash.  He may be the hereditary peer but who owns the property and estate they live in?

No connection with this family?  Andy King new all about Wills Whiffs.


WD & HO Wills was founded by Henry Overton Wills (1761-1826), who opened a shop in Castle Street, Bristol in 1786. He traded as Wills, Watkins & Co, but on the retirement of his partner in 1789, the company became Wills & Co.

William Day Wills and Henry Overton Wills II succeeded their father in 1826 and, four years later, the company adopted its familiar title.

Wills was known for its family spirit and a belief that workers should enjoy themselves. The company pioneered canteens, free medical care, sports facilities and paid holidays.

It was one of the first of the larger tobacco companies to make cigarettes.

Bristol, introduced in 1871 and initially made by hand, was the first cigarette produced at the company's London factory and appeared in several guises until it was withdrawn in 1974.


Three Castles and Gold Flake followed in 1878 and Woodbine, produced on the revolutionary Bonsack machine, ten years later.

Embassy, introduced in 1914, was to repeat its initial success after re-launch as a coupon brand in 1962.

Wills' factories and offices were at the forefront of design. From the late 19th century, factories were built and extended not only in Bristol but also in London, Swindon, Dublin, Newcastle and Glasgow.
'Wills Whiffs' advertisement. Opens in new browser window


In 1974 the first cigarettes were produced at a new factory in Hartcliffe, Bristol – the largest in Europe – which closed in 1990.

Nearly 30 members of the Wills family served the company. The last, Christopher, the great-great grandson of H O Wills, retired as sales research manager in 1969.

He does.

Well obviously she has an interest because she married in.

It is all old Wills family property and dosh.

Incidentally his wife, Gillian Eastoe doesn't feature in any peerage sites whatsoever. So where did this idea that she had money or property come from?

Not for long, it'll be the mortgage company's soon.

To be honest I dont give a flying fuck if its hers or his, the fact is after all these years of him reaping the praise about saving us etc it seems he would rather take down teh club he supports and lose the money rather than lose the money but keep the club.

If he is a true fan, he wouldnt be looking to take the club down.

Yeah, I hear what you are saying Ash.

But the misconception that it is SSW's wife money does have some sort of impact upon motives.

If it was your wife's money and she wanted it back then that would probably have more influence than if it was yours, as a "true fan".

Yeah I'm sure it was more of a case that he was hoping some idiot would pay over the odds for the club so he could break even. A fan or not a fan. Money is money.

Erm, there's lots of people outside the peerage who have money - the idea that Lady Gillian at least used to have some money comes from the fact that a fair chunk (at least £2m) of the money the Wills family have put into the club was hers. She put in £2m shortly before the last period of administration. So, to summarise, it's his name and tobacco factory; they both (used to) have some dosh. Does it really matter?

If its his wifes money then fair play but he has been getting lots of interest back.