Thetownend.com

Well that’s is pretty much…. We are bust.

£18M in debt according to the adver…. I would get out to watch the team tonight, could very well be our last game. I am absolutely gutted and distraught right now.

Words cannot explain when you see headlines like “The club is on the brink” and “rapidly heading towards insolvency” AGAIN but this time the threat is very real.

Good bye STFC 1879 (or 1881) - 2007  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

:shock: Fuck me, £18 million?!?!

Jesus fucking wept.

Where did you get the figure from Gazza?

If £18 million really is the amount of debt we have then no one's gonna ride in to save us until a winding up order is in place............which mean a 15 point deduction.

I can't see anything else happening now.

How the fuck can a 3rd division football club rack up that level of debt?

£18 million seems like a lot! Hell of a lot.... :shock:

£18M its on the front of the adver today. No shitting... HONEST.

Does the Adver say how it got this figure Gazza?

yes  The breakdown is...

-£2.8 Owed to St Modwen
-Purchases of stocks/shares £3M
-Loan from new investors to cover debts of £3M
-Provision for Bill Powers investment 1.2M depending on court judgement
-CVA £900,000
- £8M to cover Wills Family Loans
-Inland Revenue £1.8M
-Day Creditors £1.5 additional funding

18 Million? I can't even imagine how a club of our size could get anywhere near that sort of debt? Surely the debt would have to build slowly, and I wouldn't have thought we could operate for the last few years with a debt anywhere near that.

Holt says that there are other people in the background who want to takeover. I can't imagine who'd be interested if this is true.

Talking about BP maybe? The ultimate last resort?

Is it me or does that add up to 22.5??  :?  :shock:

I think the Club will go into recievership befofe they'd sell to Power, sadly. Just stupidly stubborn.

Of the £18 million a deal would cost, £8 million is to be paid to SSW in installments over 5 years.  For what?!!  As majority shareholder, he has presided over the period during which these losses have racked up!  Why the **** should he be reimbursed for the losses that arose on his watch?!

When you own a company, you are entitled enjoy the benefits of profits when they arise by taking a dividend.  When you make a loss, you take it on the chin.  You don't ask the next set of owners to bail you out.

I am almost speechless.

I think some of that debt is deferred and is needed to be paid for the takeover etc...

I was under the impression that they'd be ordered to deal with anybody who wanted to purchase the club and pay off any immediate debts?

Yes, the Administrator has the power to do that.

And our adminstrator is...Oh, shit.

:nod:

If someone like HMRC issues a WUP and there is a viable rescue package then the courts would have to look at it.

Well somebody give HMRC a ring and tell them we're fucked unless they force this bunch of absolute half wits out of our club.

Damn, I really wish I renewed my season ticket now.

 :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:  :wanker:

And if the CVA fails the whole thing becomes payable, so if you believe Andronikou that's anywhere between £5 million - £9 million.

Ah well, to sum up:

Fuck.  :beers:

It's not 18m of debt; it's a deal that would cost the buyers £18m, including an £8m payoff to the Wills family. No wonder the talks have stalled.

How the fuck does a company with a turnover of less than £4m manage to accumulate a debt to HMRC of £1.8m? They can't have paid tax VAT NI PAYE or anything for years!

And on what planet does Diamandis think he and the Wills family are going to get £11m (£3m to holding co for shares plus 5 year pay off of £8m to Wills)? For a company that it's own directors admit is insolvent? That they have wrecked? Jesus wept!

If that's the deal they're after, quite apart from being completely insane, they are not going to find anyone to pay that price. Leaving us staring down a deep black hole of extinction.

I'm sorry, not normally given to the doom and gloom view of things, but this is seriously bad.

for fucks sake

why did i start supporting this club?

After watching the 5 goals on the highlights last night, I felt upbeat and happy.  Now I don't.

Surely not even BP and fans consortium can save us now.

I sincerely hope Mr Diamandis is present at tonight's game so that I can give him a piece of my mind.

Paul - Is it a case that if they don't find a buyer, we go bust therefore the Wills debts don't get paid and someone else can pick up the pieces and only pay the 'normal' debts i.e. CVA, BP etc.

SSW - not sure what to make of this - he has helped in the past - granted, but hasn't he had a 12%+ return on his loans, far more than you would get in the High Street? And now he wants all the capital back as well? How exactly has this formula helped the club apart from delaying the inevitable for a few years?

Luc

Nobody in their right mind are going to pay that for STFC.

They will let in fall into virtual liquidation before buying it from the administrator for a pound.

It just makes me so fucking angry that this could have been avoided over a year ago.

IT IS NOW TIME TO CALL AN OPEN FANS MEETING AGAIN AND DRIVE THESE FUCKWITS OUT OF TOWN.

NOW IT IS TIME TO PROTEST AND PROTEST HARD

A piece of your fist/forehead might be more appropriate.

That has to be a mere headline grabber from the Adver rather than a true cost of purchasing the club.

I mean, how the fuck can a company that has so much debt expect to recoup £3m in share capital. It's fucking insolvant for fucks sake. And I sympathise with the Wills financially for putting in so much over the years. But wanting £8m back. Fuck off. It's partly your own fault anyway.

Surely the adver made these figures up?

It seems the only way to get the attention of the powers that be is to wholeheartedly abuse them on this forum - we know it works due to the phonecalls James and Whits have received.

Its only because their necks are on the line when it comes to this forum that I haven't started a thread with extreme abuse to each and every person involved in fucking up our club.

CROOKS. We all know they are whether someone posts it or not. so fuck it.

Seton Wills is a fucking joke. Saviour my left nut. Utter utter chimp.

Good post - I'm inclined to agree.

Nothing is confirmed yet...

The most recent accounts show a net worth of -£15m, so £18m is not unreasonable.  The state of our balance sheet has been known for months, since they produced the 04/05 accounts really, the 05/06 ones just out merely show a continuing decline.  The only difficulty would have been trying to figure out what the debt was made of and who to etc, plus the couple of contended debts (and some that may have appeared year on year that seem a little perplexing to the naked eye I guess).

Totally agree.  NOW is the time. As much as I hate to get on peoples backs during matches, even chants for the board to fuck off at tongihts game surly must be in order.

But of that £-15m, £5m-ish was due to be wiped out by paying the £900k CVA baloon payment wasnt it?

oh.

the end is extremely fucking nigh. im up for a protest against this bunch of useless wankers tonight, anyone else?

just pure and outright vitriolic hatred towards the board. nothing less.

Perhaps everyone thinking of the town end should surround exec box in the arkells instead?

Not that I know of, I think it's listed as a risk in the notes to the accounts, basically stating it could all go tits up and then the accounts would be worthless as the club would not be a going concern anyway (Si may be able to shed some more light).  It doesn't break the value down, hence why it would be tougher than you'd think to really work out what you were buying (which effectively is who do you end-up owing and what).

The first line of Batch's post could be relevant here..?
Has the adver actually quoted anyone official or is someone adding 2 and 2 together and making 18million..?

More hyperbole from Andy "Bristol City" Cryer I would suggest..

The club will not cost 18million to run, a buyer will not touch it now, instead they will wait for liquidation then jump in.

Completely disagree

As a newspaper if they could not make the story stand up then they would not have printed it in this climate

:cry:

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/display.var.1744818.0.cash_crisis_leaves_club_on_the_edge.php

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/display.var.1744818.0.cash_crisis_leaves_club_on_the_edge.php

What time does everyone think a statement will be released by the club?!?

Not sure about that mate..

And risk their asses being sued and banned from the ground ?

I dont think so

They don't need to ask anyone really, it's all public if you want it, published at companies House a few weeks back showing our current position of debt.

Called Up Share Capital + £2,250,000
Share Premium Reserve + £2,585,161
Profit and Loss reserve - £16,737,187
Equity Shareholders' deficit - £11,902,026

So lots and bad looking.

Net Liabilites of £11,902,026 made up of:

Current Liabilities - £8,799,529
Assets - £643, 249
Long Term Liabilities - £2,467,664
Deferred income - £1,278,082

This meant by the end of 2006 season we were about £800k worse off than the year before, and we can expect the same to have happened up to 2007 end of season.

Whatever way you look at the accounts they show a big problem on the Balance Sheet, a continuing trend of spending more than we receive and a rising cost of servicing debt.  The only reason we have been allowed to continue is because we have had a guarantee by SSW to loan funds until 2008, thus meaning we could claim we were a going concern.

I'm scared........hold me  :cry:

Oh, and I guess the accounts do not include £1.2m to Power as it was completely dismissed at that point.  So you add £800k for one more year plus the £1.2m to Power into the liabilities.

Well this is a new low, I am truly shit scared of losing our club its a very close reality now.

Can we be a phoenix? If we are liquidated will the team stay..will the manager stay? willwe stay in this division? will we be closed for good?

Fuck me this really is scarey shit. :(

Liquidated = non league about 3 divisions below the League as highest entry point as the League take away the share.

Lets get the fuckers out NOW!

If a Liquidator is appointed on a court's Winding Up Order then that is it.

Finished. End of. Completely.

You can't buy, revive or sell a liquidated company, that's the whole point.

The liquidator can keep it trading for a while, but only if he thinks it will produce profit to pay off debts. But he is bound to shut it down eventually.

You can buy assets off of the liquidator (if you can find any). I will have the sign over the TE gate I think.

So 'minor paperwork' was a euphemism for a small bit of paper that looked like a cheque with the words 18 million written on it.

At least that managed to bring a smile to my face :D

We all knew "minor paperwork" was bull shit. (Thats not a dig at you btw)

Lies and always lies, we cannot expect anything else.

There was me looking forward to tonight's game. Such a shame, when finally, after years of cack, we seem to be getting it right off the pitch. This is f*cking awful.

Where has all the money gone- as if we need to ask

Wjat a bunch of wankers

£8million is a fucking joke! You can bet it's diamandis jacking up that figure and not SSW. It's his own fault the club is in this much shit for going along with the so called 'advisor' in the first place. Give the club away for free and maintain whatever dignity you may have left.

We always used to joke at games that Diamandis was buying a new conservatory with our ticket sales ...

I should emphasise the joke bit before I get any calls!!!

The more I look at this the more worrying it is:



The CVA aside, it's these two short sentences that scare the willies out of me.

HMRC seriously do not like not being paid. That is a huge amount of tax and NI to owe.

And if we owe that much to trading creditors they are likely to stop supplying day to day goods to keep the club running. Oh and bang in a Winding Up Petition or two.

Now where is that RWE nPower/Palace thread..?

If I were a Portuguese hand pump right now I’d realise I have Sir Seton firmly over a wooden barrel with breeches around ones ankles.  He can forget the 8 million over five years and accept a nominal (undisclosed) amount and be grateful that he doesn’t lose the land that he’s secured the St Modwen loans against.

To be honest I can only see it getting worse and going down right to the wire to force the Wills to accept a rational amount or face losing everything.

Fucking absolute travesty mind.  The debts were known but looking at it in black and white does hit home just how much debt the current regime have accumulated over their tenure.  Effectively the books give the impression is that all they’ve done is borrow up to their eye balls and taken hefty chunks of ‘administrative fees’ out of the company in the process.  Ironically pretty much what the previous regime said they would do!

As far as I'm concerned SSW doesn't deserve his money back. He invested as majority shareholder to bail us out from mistakes that his crew keep making.I dont understand everything about this but if we were wound up then surely that debt would dissappear wouldn't it ?. Only monies owed to other companies would needed to be paid.

Don't worry lads I've got an idea...

If everyone on the townend who's got at least 1 post chips in £29,000 then I reckon we could cover it.

can you lend me £28,900? if not then we revert to plan A.

Actually £28,900 would do, I rounded it up so we could get some beers in.

I know the horse has long bolted from the stable, but I'm trying to get my head around all the figures quoted here.

So SSW/Diamandis are asking BEST Holdings to pay 18M for a 75% stake in STFC, of which 11M is effectively a 'golden handshake' to the pair of them for the fine financial mismanagement they have overseen during their reign? Basically, the return of all the capital SSW has invested, and then some?

If I were BEST Holdings, I'd tell them to fuck right off immediately.

Good god, they really do take the fucking piss.

Im not a Swindon fan but I go occasionally with my bro and old man.

Youre fucked by the looks of things.
Good luck, Im sure someone will bail out at the last minute...they always do.

Swindon needs a football club IMO

Sturrocks just said the board should sue the adver as it's rubbish. Unless I'm mistaken, shouldnt they be sueing dear Bob as the majority of it is quoted from him?

I'd have thought had that been the case that Bob would have been rolled out this afternoon with an outright denial.  Most of it was substantiated by previous sets of accounts and CVA documents and is all in the public domain anyway.

I think like Paul D mentioned today in the Trust letter seeing those figures quoted even those that we were aware of galvanizes to the supporters exactly what trouble we are in.

Bob Holts a cunt - end of.

I'm gonna win the Euro millions next week and buy the club.